GREEN NEW DEAL = BLIZZARD OF LIES

[Old-Ruffneck + 1,207]

Is The UK Giving Up On Solar Power? | OilPrice.com

Very well possible!!!  The return for the investment is way to sketchy.  Taxes and inflation are burdensome not just in the UK, Worldwide inflation for Climate Conspiracy Change is just that! Some folks just believe the world is gonna end in 5 years from global warming. Al Gore in the 80's pushed that adjenda.....what a joke that was.

[Ecocharger + 1,423]

What is all the fuss over plastics? I have trouble finding a store which gives out plastic bags, which I value for my household waste containers. 

Plastics are a valuable resource.

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.adh1853

Combined with the absurd attempts to demonize fossil fuel vehicles, exposed in this analysis as a massive hoax, there are now no logical underpinnings for the climate agitators to cling to.

EVs have now been exposed as a waste of money in the fallacious attempt to reduce atmospheric CO2.

The distance researched is more than 120,000 miles, which is regarded as a long-term mileage for vehicles.

https://manhattan.institute/article/electric-vehicles-for-everyone-the-impossible-dream?utm_source=wsj&utm_medium=feature

"The differences are such that the dirtiest EVs can have more than double the emissions of the cleanest internal combustion engines."

Edited October 23, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Ron Wagner + 680]

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/energy/environmental-groups-resist-projects-needed-green-transition-they-advocate

 

Circular firing squad? Green groups resist projects needed to meet climate goals they set

The green energy transition will require lots of land, mining and impacts to wildlife, all of which environmentalists don’t want.

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By Kevin Killough

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October 22, 2023 11:33pm

Updated: October 22, 2023 11:33pm

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Afight for lithium in the Nevada desert underscores how some of the most vocal opponents of the transition to wind, solar and electric vehicles are sometimes the very environmental groups that advocate for the transition in their quest to lower carbon emissions.

The Biden administration announced in April that it intended to enact some of the highest air pollution standards in the world for automobiles. In addition to other emission restrictions, the Environmental Protection Administration rules would require 67% of new passenger vehicles sold in the U.S. to be electric by 2032.

The Center for Biological Diversity condemned the proposed rules because they don’t go far enough.

According to the International Energy Agency, an electric vehicle requires six times more minerals than a conventional vehicle.

To make a half-ton EV battery, 250 tons of materials have to be processed for all the lithium, graphite, copper, nickel, aluminum, zink, neodymium, and manganese that goes into it, according to Mark Mills, senior fellow of the Manhattan Institute.

While the CBD wants to see more aggressive EV mandates than the EPA is proposing, the group also oppose the lithium mines that would help make that happen.

In 2021, the CBD successfully sued the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to protect a type of buckwheat that would have been impacted by a proposed lithium mine in Nevada.

At another proposed lithium mine in Nevada, the Western Watersheds Project intends to sue to protect a species of snail from the mine.

Besides EVs, wind turbines and solar panels also need a supply of the critical minerals.

Kenny Stein, vice president for policy at the Institute for Energy Research, tells Just the News that environmental groups are ignoring the practical realities of green industrialization.

“There are trade-offs to any energy source," he said. "You have to burn something to get it. You have to build something to get it."

Furthermore, Stein said, opposing the development of mines in the U.S. will result in the critical minerals being sourced from countries with fewer environmental regulations.

It’s not just the impacts of mining that generate opposition from environmentalists. It’s also the wind and solar farms themselves and the associated transmission lines.

Local opposition over environmental impacts stalled a high-voltage transmission line for two years that will transport hydroelectric power from Canada to New England.

Meanwhile, the U.S. will need to double its high-voltage transmission capacity to derive 90% of its electricity from renewable sources, the National Renewable Energy Laboratory estimates.

The wind and solar farms also require large amounts of land.

According to a 2021 Princeton University study, expanding wind and solar capacity by 10% annually to 2030 would require a land area equal to that of South Dakota.

The vast tracts needed for such projects also poses potential harm to wildlife.

Environmentalists and others think offshore wind projects are potentially linked to an increase in the deaths of whales in the past several years but some have appeared reluctant to press the matter. 

The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration says, "There is no scientific evidence that noise resulting from offshore wind site characterization surveys could potentially cause mortality of whales. There are no known links between recent large whale mortalities and ongoing offshore wind surveys."

Still, Stein argues, if oil and gas development were suspected the response from environmental groups would be swift.

“When the Trump administration was just considering allowing offshore exploration to see if there’s oil and gas on the East Coast, these environmentalists had a meltdown about how it’s going to hurt whales and manatees,” he said.

Energy and environmental policy expert Steve Goreham suspects that when global warming activism falls out of fashion activists will seek new environmental causes.

“Maybe they’ll eventually get out there and start tearing down wind turbines," he said. "We’ll see. I don’t know if I will live that long."

However, Goreham argued the economic realities of green energy will likely diminish support longer before environmental groups get on board.

He thinks that as more wind and solar is placed on the grid prices will rise and the grid will become unreliable.

The resulting high energy bills and regular blackouts during inclement weather, Goreham continues, will further shift public opinion.

“It’s going to take a decade or two, but it’s all going to come crashing down," he said. "And then we’re going to get back to a sensible energy policy."

The pushback could already be underway in Europe, with delays in a number of energy efficiency, electric vehicle, and coal-fired power plant retirement targets in the United Kingdom, Germany, Italy and Poland.
Stein also pointed to European countries walking back their commitments as the shift that’s likely to turn energy policy, which has little to do with any environmental concerns.
“They’re walking back those commitments because one, they’re probably impossible, and two, they’re extremely expensive to even attempt. In a democratic country, eventually that becomes a problem,” Stein said.
He said he doesn’t think that the committed environmental lobby will ever reverse their support for wind and solar, even as the impacts become more obvious over time.
“Wind and solar are not free of environmental impacts. It's just a question of the different kinds of environmental impact that you get,” Stein said.

 

“The draft rule fails to require any improvement in the tens of millions of new gas-guzzlers, and even the strongest option falls well short of the 75% pollution cut necessary to protect our planet. Biden shouldn’t let automakers’ can’t-do attitude sabotage his best shot at cutting carbon emissions,” the group’s director, Dan Becker, said in a statement.

With 240,000 miles of transmission lines currently in the U.S, according to energy writer Robert Bryce, running the grid on renewables will require enough transmission lines to circle the Earth 10 times.

 

 

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,552]

By now one would finally ask the question  Was there ever any Green Energy in the EU? 

It seems quite apparent the EU can no longer afford NG to power there countries. So back to Coal...really the world's leader in Sustainable Green Energy...totally dependt on Fossil Fuel?

German Coal Plants May Have To Remain On Standby Longer Than Planned

 

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/German-Coal-Plants-May-Have-To-Remain-On-Standby-Longer-Than-Planned.html

Edited October 23, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open

[turbguy + 1,518]

18 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

By now one would finally ask the question  Was there ever any Green Energy in the EU? 

It seems quite apparent the EU can no longer afford NG to power there countries. So back to Coal...really the world's leader in Sustainable Green Energy...totally dependt on Fossil Fuel?

German Coal Plants May Have To Remain On Standby Longer Than Planned

 

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/German-Coal-Plants-May-Have-To-Remain-On-Standby-Longer-Than-Planned.html

So what?

They don't run for a HUGE chunk of the year.

Remember, they used to operate ALL year.

THAT makes a difference.

[TailingsPond + 633]

23 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Poor old EVs have now been exposed as a waste of money in the fallacious attempt to reduce atmospheric CO2.

"The differences are such that the dirtiest EVs can have more than double the emissions of the cleanest internal combustion engines."

 

First off you don't care about CO2 so why post this?

Second, is comparing the dirtiest EV to the cleanest ICE really fair?  No, it is an absurd comparison. If you did that "analysis" in reverse you would find that the dirtiest ICE will produce more pollution than dozens of EV's or brand new ICE's.   Surely you know poorly tuned, leaky exhaust, oil burners are bad; even you cannot deny that. 

 

 

[Ecocharger + 1,423]

1 hour ago, TailingsPond said:

First off you don't care about CO2 so why post this?

Second, is comparing the dirtiest EV to the cleanest ICE really fair?  No, it is an absurd comparison. If you did that "analysis" in reverse you would find that the dirtiest ICE will produce more pollution than dozens of EV's or brand new ICE's.   Surely you know poorly tuned, leaky exhaust, oil burners are bad; even you cannot deny that. 

 

 

Are you suggesting that the Green Mania is not fueled exclusively by the panic over CO2 related climate change? Are you really that isolated from the political world?

Check the full article on comparing EVs with fossil fuel vehicles. The conclusions that there is no advantage in terms of CO2 reduction, that consumer preferences for SUV style EVs indicates that the desired mix for consumers means that high CO2 EVs will prevail. Consumers prefer the high emission EVs.

"Appendix: Details Underlying Figure 6

Anatomy of CO₂ “Guesstimates” and Known Unknowns: Estimated Lifetime EV Emissions Range from 50% Less to 50% More than ICE

To illustrate the uncertainties in estimating EV lifetime CO₂ emissions, we use Volvo’s analysis as a baseline because it is thorough and incorporates many, though not all, variables.[194] Per Volvo: “Choice of methodology has significant impact on the total carbon footprint. . . . [C]are should be taken when comparing results from this report with those from other vehicle manufacturers.” The company showed that, compared with an internal combustion engine’s knowable emissions, the estimated EV emissions range from an idealized 50% lower to a realistic 8% lower.[195]

While theoretical scenarios allow for estimating lower EV emissions, the outcome is not a fact or a measurement. On the other hand, as illustrated below, if the Volvo analysis is adjusted to include some, but not all, known variabilities (discussed in this report), EV lifetime CO₂ emissions can be 15% higher than the baseline ICE car, or if the comparison is with a 30% more fuel-efficient engine, estimated EV lifetime emissions can be more than 50% higher.

Below, we summarize six key known unknowns for four upstream materials features that Volvo estimates cause 18 tons of a total of 25 tons of CO₂ emitted to build the EV, and we add two downstream sets of variables for the baseline of the additional 16 tons emitted from vehicle charging. (The outcome is illustrated in Figure 6 of this report.)

1. Battery size and refueling anxiety: 18 tons CO₂ → 22 tons
   
   EV buyers prefer large batteries, not to address “range anxiety” per se but because that minimizes the frequency of on-road fueling that, even with fast chargers, takes 4x–10x longer than with gasoline. Volvo assumes a 71–78 kWh battery. But 90–100 kWh is common, and, as IEA notes, the trend is up. Bigger batteries mean more materials. Assuming a 25% larger battery than Volvo changes the 18 tons of CO₂ from materials and refining to 22 tons.
    
2. Emissions from energy used producing battery materials: 22 tons → 25 tons
   
   Volvo shows nonaluminum minerals contributing two-thirds of upstream CO₂ based on energy supplied by the “average global grid.” But most “energy materials” are refined in China with a grid that has 50% higher CO₂ per kWh. Assuming half the materials are China-sourced adds three tons to revised factor no. 1 above, thus raising the total to 25 tons.[196]
    
3. Energy/emissions from near-future mining: 25 tons → 34 tons
   
   The unprecedented expansion of mining to meet massive EV minerals demands means that each new ton produced will come from mines with declining ore grades (a long-run geological reality), which increases energy use. Energy per ton of copper mined has doubled in the past decade. Assuming only a 50% increase in CO₂ per ton for (nonaluminum) materials adds another nine tons to the adjustment in no. 2 above, raising the upstream total to 34 tons.[197]
    
4. Aluminum sourcing: 34 tons → 36 tons
   
   The Volvo baseline shows six tons of CO₂ emissions from aluminum production. Specific manufacturers may source aluminum from low-emissions countries, but China is over 55% of the world’s supply.[198] Producing a ton in China emits 20 tons of CO2.[199] The average EV has 0.5 tons of aluminum and rising.[200] Assuming that half the aluminum comes from China adds two tons to the baseline, raising the total battery embodied CO₂ to 36 tons.
    
5. Balance of materials: 36 tons → 43 tons
   
   The Volvo baseline includes 7 tons of CO₂ from fabricating the balance of hardware (battery module assembly, electronics, other materials, etc.). We ignore for this illustration the known variabilities for those factors but note, for example, that the 200 extra pounds of non-battery copper used for EV wiring and motors entails wide emissions variabilities. Thus, many EVs manufactured now and in the near future will arrive at a dealer, before the first mile driven, with upstream CO₂ emissions totaling at least 43 tons.
   
   After the emissions from supplying upstream materials (44 tons) to build the EV, one then adds the variables in downstream emissions, from fueling the EVs battery.
    
6. Drive on U.S. grids, not the EU grid: downstream 16 tons CO₂ → 22 tons
   
   Emissions due to battery charging vary, depending on the electricity used (also the time of day, as discussed elsewhere). Average emissions from all U.S. grids, as well as for many regional grids, are about 40% greater than the EU average.[201] With the contemplated expansion of wind and solar, we assume instead a 35% increase. Thus the 16 tons emitted over 120,000 miles of EU charging (per Volvo analysis) becomes 22 tons in many U.S. states.
    
7. Drive vigorously, or use the heater or air conditioner: 22 tons → 24 tons
   
   Using air conditioning, heat, or vigorous driving increases EV energy use from 10% to 50%. Assume that many users will experience at least a 10% increase in electricity used per mile over the rated efficiency, and the 22 tons in no. 5 above increases to 24 tons of CO₂.
    

The Bottom Line: 43 Tons of Estimated Emissions Rises to 67 Tons

The realistic potential of 43 tons of upstream emissions combined with operating realities of 24 tons of downstream emissions (over a vehicle lifetime) yields a total of 67 tons of EV CO₂. This is 15% more than the 59-ton baseline for a comparable gasoline-fueled SUV. Or, assume instead that a consumer purchases an ICE car with 30% better fuel efficiency; that vehicle’s lifetime CO₂ emissions drop to 40 tons, which is ~27 tons, or 50% less than many possible EV scenarios."

[notsonice + 1,211]

On 10/22/2023 at 1:02 PM, Ecocharger said:

Fossil fuels source 84% of energy needs in 2023, just as they have for decade after decade.

 Fossil fuel source 84% of energy needs in 2023, just as they have for decade after decade???????

does someone need to explain the chart below to you..................

 

once again you are living in 2019 with your 84 %

 

in 2019 Fossil fuels were 84 %

In 2022 Fossil fuels were at best 82% 

in 2023....Today 81 %

 

2030 at ?????  looks like Fossil Fuels will be less than 75 percent with renewables (solar and wind) at 10 percent

Inexpensive  solar panels are taken over ......everywhere..........Coal is toast......

Coal will be less than 5 percent in the US by 2030

Enjoy the chart

[notsonice + 1,211]

pv magazine International

Solar PV LCOE expected to slide to $0.021/kWh by 2050, DNV says

By mid-century the levelized cost of energy (LCOE) for solar PV will be $0.021/kWh, a new report by risk management company DNV predicts.

 

.

2 weeks ago

 

ET EnergyWorld

Solar power poised to become dominant global energy source by 2050: Study

This research is backed by the UK Government's Department for Energy Security and Net Zero, as well as the Children's Investment Fund...

.

4 days ago

 

CleanTechnica

Solar Will Reach Dominance As Cheapest Source Of Electricity In World — DNV

DNV, a major global risk management company, has come to the common conclusion that solar PV power will get so cheap that it will eventually...

.

Jun 28, 2023

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by notsonice

[Rob Plant + 2,732]

Toyota’s Solid-State Battery Boasts 745 Miles On A 10 Minute Charge

Toyota’s Solid-State Battery Boasts 745 Miles On A 10 Minute Charge | OilPrice.com

[bloodman33 + 22]

All about Ecocharger and the other paid shills on this board.

The oil industry intentionally pays people to lie.

Global warming is caused by the hydrocarbon industry coal and oil: Period. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAAbcNl4Lb8&t=2214s

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,187]

29 minutes ago, bloodman33 said:

All about Ecocharger and the other paid shills on this board.

The oil industry intentionally pays people to lie.

Global warming is caused by the hydrocarbon industry coal and oil: Period. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAAbcNl4Lb8&t=2214s

Oh gosh golly gee, if YOU say so it must be true.  Hrmm... where is my check?  Lets see, REAL data shows CO2 LAGGING behind temperature rises in BOTH glaciers AND Sea Floor muds.... but hey, you geniuses now claim an effect is a cause.  Genius. 

Did burning hydrocarbons cause the ice ages to begin or end?  No.  Did the burning of hydrocarbons cause the weakening of magnetic north pole to continue to move?  Changing where cosmic rays hit the earth, changing the climate?  No. 

There is  truly only ONE thing you can point to that is HUMAN caused... Due to gigantic increase in population, vast regions which used to be forested, or permanent grasslands turned into farmland releasing Gigaton after gigatons of CO2 out of the soil and MORE importantly changing the albedo of the earth drastically.  Now that you can blame on humanity.  Are temperatures rising over the tropical regions?  ~No, in fact inverted compared to rates in Tropical troposhere which is the DRIVER of pushing heat north/south to the earths radiators(the polar regions).  Are they rising over cities?  Yes.  Especially NORTHERN cities who have .... get this... access to Fossil fuels.  Moral of story should be to anyone who is COMPETENT would be to REMOVE all city data.... Do we have datasets without city data?  Oh yes, yes we do.  Do they show even 50% of the warming of the data sets who keep city data in?  No, no they do not.  In fact several of them show ZERO warming or very slight warming at best. 

Enjoy your fear porn everytime a glacier chunk falls off somewhere or there is a fire which used to all be far worse until humans began using fossil fuels and things called aircraft/helicopters to put them out...   Hell the natives of North America used to protect themselves from crown fires by burning off the continent every fall...  But hey, lets not bring that little fact up...

[bloodman33 + 22]

Make money on tanker stocks and donate to our queen AOC!

Buy TNK, STNG, SFL, DHT NOW!  Money!...... Money.  Money.  Money.  Feed our queen!

The oil companies are destroying the earth with CO2 and methane.  

They willl be held accountable!!!

[Ecocharger + 1,423]

1 hour ago, Rob Plant said:

Toyota’s Solid-State Battery Boasts 745 Miles On A 10 Minute Charge

Toyota’s Solid-State Battery Boasts 745 Miles On A 10 Minute Charge | OilPrice.com

You left out the most important parts of the article,. This is not even close to being  on the market yet, and there are still great challenges to ever getting this going. 

"Toyota announced this week that it is close to manufacturing a new solid-state battery that could double the range of most electric vehicles—at 745 miles. The batteries could reach the market by 2027 or 2028, helping to catapult electric vehicles into mainstream use.

Battery range and charging time have continued to be a barrier to mass EV adoption, with consumers balking at the idea of driving a limited number of miles before spending significant time recharging. 

While battery range and charge time would go a long way to easing car buyers’ reservations about electric vehicle adoption, EV makers will still have to battle another reservation that consumers have with electric vehicles—subpar charging infrastructure, which polls show has dampened enthusiasm for EVs in the United States.  

For now, the battle for car buyers’ hearts and minds is proving to be an uphill battle, with 74% of Americans feeling that gas-powered vehicles are better for trips of 250 miles or more—a threshold that if crossed, would require most EV owners to charge up, according to a recent The Post-UMD poll.  

The current driving range of most electric vehicles is around 300 miles.

While the breakthrough in battery technology could be a game changer for the EV industry, challenges remain on the manufacturing side, with solid-state batteries posing difficulties with the assembly process, with cathode and anode cells needing to be precisely and quickly stacked, Toyota has said."

 

 

[notsonice + 1,211]

5 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

You left out the most important parts of the article,. This is not even close to being  on the market yet, and there are still great challenges to ever getting this going. 

"Toyota announced this week that it is close to manufacturing a new solid-state battery that could double the range of most electric vehicles—at 745 miles. The batteries could reach the market by 2027 or 2028, helping to catapult electric vehicles into mainstream use.

Battery range and charging time have continued to be a barrier to mass EV adoption, with consumers balking at the idea of driving a limited number of miles before spending significant time recharging. 

While battery range and charge time would go a long way to easing car buyers’ reservations about electric vehicle adoption, EV makers will still have to battle another reservation that consumers have with electric vehicles—subpar charging infrastructure, which polls show has dampened enthusiasm for EVs in the United States.  

For now, the battle for car buyers’ hearts and minds is proving to be an uphill battle, with 74% of Americans feeling that gas-powered vehicles are better for trips of 250 miles or more—a threshold that if crossed, would require most EV owners to charge up, according to a recent The Post-UMD poll.  

The current driving range of most electric vehicles is around 300 miles.

While the breakthrough in battery technology could be a game changer for the EV industry, challenges remain on the manufacturing side, with solid-state batteries posing difficulties with the assembly process, with cathode and anode cells needing to be precisely and quickly stacked, Toyota has said."

 

 

Luddite, you are so obsessed with EV's and yet you will never consider buying one.......as it appears you are afraid of advances in technology and anything that helps bring clean air and a healthier world.

Please keep repairing your clunkers.....Living in the past is for Luddites..... The rest of the world will move on with clean renewables and EV's

[bloodman33 + 22]

We ah, except for anyone living in an apartment complex...no chargers.  EV's will not be the solution any time soon.  They are still vehicles for the rich.  Public transportation will have far greater an impact.  The days of large energy intensive personal transportation in large Metro areas will eventually be over sooner or later in the US and the oil and auto industries will have to shrink down.  .    Public transportation, transitioning EV's in rural America and some legacy gas cars will be the 100 year solution.   That is truth.  That is reality.  But I suspect we are already past the tipping point and we are all   ....

Edited October 24, 2023 by bloodman33

[TailingsPond + 633]

4 hours ago, bloodman33 said:

We ah, except for anyone living in an apartment complex...no chargers.  EV's will not be the solution any time soon. 

I live in an apartment style condo.  The condo board is already planning on installing chargers in the underground garage.  We will have them relatively soon.  Yes, the condo fee will increase but it also increases property value. 

FYI you can own a EV and not have a fast home charger.  It's not like you have a home gas station.   In a pinch you can very slow charge off a normal plug.  Like a Jerrycan for EV's.

[Ecocharger + 1,423]

1 hour ago, TailingsPond said:

I live in an apartment style condo.  The condo board is already planning on installing chargers in the underground garage.  We will have them relatively soon.  Yes, the condo fee will increase but it also increases property value. 

FYI you can own a EV and not have a fast home charger.  It's not like you have a home gas station.   In a pinch you can very slow charge off a normal plug.  Like a Jerrycan for EV's.

Then why are EV sales stalling in both America and the UK? Buyer interest in EVs has declined according to the recent polls.

[Polyphia + 82]

9 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Oh gosh golly gee, if YOU say so it must be true.  Hrmm... where is my check?  Lets see, REAL data shows CO2 LAGGING behind temperature rises in BOTH glaciers AND Sea Floor muds.... but hey, you geniuses now claim an effect is a cause.  Genius. 

Did burning hydrocarbons cause the ice ages to begin or end?  No.  Did the burning of hydrocarbons cause the weakening of magnetic north pole to continue to move?  Changing where cosmic rays hit the earth, changing the climate?  No. 

There is  truly only ONE thing you can point to that is HUMAN caused... Due to gigantic increase in population, vast regions which used to be forested, or permanent grasslands turned into farmland releasing Gigaton after gigatons of CO2 out of the soil and MORE importantly changing the albedo of the earth drastically.  Now that you can blame on humanity.  Are temperatures rising over the tropical regions?  ~No, in fact inverted compared to rates in Tropical troposhere which is the DRIVER of pushing heat north/south to the earths radiators(the polar regions).  Are they rising over cities?  Yes.  Especially NORTHERN cities who have .... get this... access to Fossil fuels.  Moral of story should be to anyone who is COMPETENT would be to REMOVE all city data.... Do we have datasets without city data?  Oh yes, yes we do.  Do they show even 50% of the warming of the data sets who keep city data in?  No, no they do not.  In fact several of them show ZERO warming or very slight warming at best. 

Enjoy your fear porn everytime a glacier chunk falls off somewhere or there is a fire which used to all be far worse until humans began using fossil fuels and things called aircraft/helicopters to put them out...   Hell the natives of North America used to protect themselves from crown fires by burning off the continent every fall...  But hey, lets not bring that little fact up...

Thank goodness we have an expert such as yourself to set us straight.

[notsonice + 1,211]

2 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Then why are EV sales stalling in both America and the UK? Buyer interest in EVs has declined according to the recent polls.

 

 

nope no decline.....once again  Eco posts BS with nothing to back up his BS

 

reality

 

Enjoy the boom in EV Sales in the good ole USA

 

 

https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-insights/q3-2023-ev-sales/

 

Another Quarter, Another Record: EV Sales in the U.S. Surpass 300,000 in Q3, as Tesla Share of EV Segment Tumbles to 50%

Thursday October 12, 2023

 

Electric vehicle (EV) sales volumes set another record in Q3, as total sales of battery-powered vehicles jumped past 300,000 for the first time in the U.S. market. Year-to-date EV sales through September reached just over 873,000, putting the market firmly on track to surpass 1 million for the first time ever. The milestone will likely be achieved in November.

Total EV sales in Q3, according to an estimate from Kelley Blue Book, hit 313,086, a 49.8% increase from the same period one year ago and an increase from the 298,039 sold in Q2. Most automakers posted sizeable gains over 2022, with Volvo, Nissan, Mercedes and Hyundai delivering increases above 200%, thanks mostly to new products entering the market. In Q3, 14 new EV models that did not exist one year ago were in the mix, including Chevrolet Blazer and Silverado EVs. (The new Chevy EVs had very low sales – just an initial few to mark a Q3 launch). The EV market is transforming, to be sure.

Electric vehicle sales accounted for 7.9% of total industry sales in Q3, a record and up from 6.1% a year ago and 7.2% in Q2. As Cox Automotive has been reporting, higher inventory levels, more product availability, and downward pricing pressure have helped spur continued linear growth of EV sales in the U.S. market. EV sales have now increased for 13 straight quarters.

EV transaction prices in Q3 were down significantly from 2022. In an attempt to increase sales volume, Tesla slashed prices, which are now down roughly 25% year over year. The price cuts have helped, as Tesla’s Q3 sales grew by 19.5% year over year, surpassing the industry’s overall growth rate of 16.3%. However, Tesla’s share of the EV segment continues to plunge, hitting 50% in Q3, the lowest level on record and down from 62% in Q1. The long-promised Cybertruck may reverse the downward trend, although competition from Ford, Rivian and Chevrolet will likely impact Tesla’s electric pickup volume potential.   

The German luxury makes – Audi, BMW, and Mercedes – continue to rapidly increase sales of EV models. In Q3, BMW and Mercedes EV sales more than triple year-ago levels, while Audi posted an EV sales gain of 94%.

Among automakers selling internal combustion engine (ICE) and EV products, Audi, BMW and Volvo had the richest mix of EVs in Q3. BMW had the highest proportion, with over 15% of its sales being EVs, followed by Audi and Volvo, with over 12% of their sales being EVs, according to Kelley Blue Book estimates. Mercedes, Porsche and VW all had an EV mix in excess of 10% last quarter.

Q3 EV SHARE OF TOTAL BRAND SALES

 

In 2020, just three years back, EV sales in the U.S. passed 250,000 for the first time. This year, the market will jump past 1 million. In Q3, Tesla remains the undisputed leader in EV sales, with Ford a distant #2 on the list, selling just over 20,000 EVs.

Most analysts expect a flood of new EVs in the coming three years, with the number of available EV products likely to double by 2027. With this changing landscape, EV sales volume growth in the U.S. is expected to continue. Of late, product availability has grown exponentially, while consumer acceptance has grown in a more linear fashion. Those trends will likely continue, making for some very interesting market dynamics in the years ahead. Change is never easy.

[Rob Plant + 2,732]

15 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

You left out the most important parts of the article,. This is not even close to being  on the market yet, and there are still great challenges to ever getting this going. 

Eco I linked the article ffs

In the article it says it will be 3-4 years before these are in production so not too sure what your point is?

What it means is that people like myself with range anxiety and an unwillingness to wait an hour to recharge will have those concerns removed.

This is a massive difference to most people and will naturally hugely increase the uptake of EV's. If you cant see that then theres no hope for you.

There no stopping technology Eco! The world turns!

[bloodman33 + 22]

TailingsPond, I am referring to apartments owned by landlords.  To get EV juice in most large cities is very time consuming even with a fast charger.  Also, part of the problem is finding a location.  Right now they are a luxury for the rich and upper middle class usually as a second car.  My multibillion dollar company I work at has 2 chargers with parking lot of 800 cars.  99% are gas.  The people that work their are in the upper middle class to rich.  What solution do you propose for the middle and lower classes that have a 5000 dollar clunker and live paycheck to paycheck?  That is the majority of people in the US.  Right now I have a Honda with 156K miles on it.  It is 16 years old.  It should last for 300K and more importantly is incredibly cheap to fix.  The life expectancy of an EV is nowhere close to 300K, and they cost a fortune to fix.  That said yes, most US manufacturers make cars that are junk, but the bigest car company in the world is Toyota.  Then there is the issues of Lithium.  At many location getting  it destroys the environment filling it with toxic heavy metals in the air and it is a limited resource.   I am two things, rich and cheap, and I donate to AOC my queen and I can't count!  Hold oil and big coal accountable.  We need public transportation trains  NOW!

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,187]

8 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Eco I linked the article ffs

In the article it says it will be 3-4 years before these are in production so not too sure what your point is?

What it means is that people like myself with range anxiety and an unwillingness to wait an hour to recharge will have those concerns removed.

This is a massive difference to most people and will naturally hugely increase the uptake of EV's. If you cant see that then theres no hope for you.

There no stopping technology Eco! The world turns!

Ah delusions... 40+ years ago we were promised a solid state lead acid battery... just around the corner any day now making it MUCH faster to charge, far higher energy density, far longer life, yadda yadda yadda... Never happened. 

Everyone has claimed "better" batteries... Has not happened.  We have identical Lithium Ion batteries we had in the 1990's.  Nothing has changed my dude. 

The only change?  We now have expensive battery management PCB boards attached to every battery which lengthens their lifespan by protecting them from over current draw, low/high voltage, and balancing cells plus addition of fuses tied to every cell decreasing Wh/kg which has been ~offset by slight change in anode using more graphite helping Wh/kg a little bit.   Otherwise there has been ZERO advancement in battery tech for going on near 25YEARS. 

WAKE UP!

DELUSIONS and WISHES are NOT, uh hem, NOT reality.

Yes, EVERYONE wants utopia and magic bean batteries

Utopia has not arrived, Toyota has been "working" on Utopia batteries since the 90's. 

WAKE UP!

[bloodman33 + 22]

That said give to my queen AOC! Buy VLO, TNK, SFC, DHT, and STING and get rich and become a Democrat and boot all the old farts out of office!   Long live JFK!  What?  Donald Trump is a walking and talking beanie baby possessed by the Devvvvvil!  He poops Evilllllll!

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,187]

4 minutes ago, bloodman33 said:

TailingsPond, I am referring to apartments owned by landlords.  To get EV juice in most large cities is very time consuming even with a fast charger. 

So, PAY to INSTALL the home charger.  Be proactive.  Your Landlord will gladly let you do it.  A happy long term tenant is wonderful.  As a landlord, I have openly told our tenant if they want an EV charger, no problem... You pay for it, I'll pay the permit fees. 

Put mouth and wallet in same zipcode

Now big apartment complexes?  Yes, this is a BIG ass problem, as it equals a COMPLETE removal and replacement of their electrical system as apartment complexes will have ~60Amp-->75Amp service per unit and all those units are SHARED on the main service which will be minimized by power company and smallest Transformer.  To install a charger they would most likely have to run an entirely NEW service JUST for the charger network at every parking spot.  And pavement is near ubiquitous and due to handicap laws you cannot have charge cords blocking the way = horrifically expensive to upgrade.  Lord Tesla will gladly accept your profit donation to charge elsewhere.