GREEN NEW DEAL = BLIZZARD OF LIES

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

1 hour ago, Ecocharger said:

Read, that is the published statement. I posted it for you above.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/UK-Electric-Car-Market-Dips-Slightly-On-Petrol-Ban-Reversal.html

"...overall BEV market share dipped slightly to 16.6 percent year-on-year, down from 16.9 percent and driven by a fall in demand from private buyers."

Still having trouble?

Your statement said declined in ABSOLUTE numbers.

So total EV's on the road reduced???

Really?

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

6 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Your statement said declined in ABSOLUTE numbers.

So total EV's on the road reduced???

Really?

You still having trouble?

"...overall BEV market share dipped slightly to 16.6 percent year-on-year, down from 16.9 percent and driven by a fall in demand from private buyers."

So this is a decline in absolute numbers (not just percentages) of EVs sold to private buyers in the market place. 

How could you miss that? I would really like to understand how your logic functions on this point.

Edited November 14, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

1 hour ago, Ecocharger said:

Read, that is the published statement. I posted it for you above.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/UK-Electric-Car-Market-Dips-Slightly-On-Petrol-Ban-Reversal.html

"...overall BEV market share dipped slightly to 16.6 percent year-on-year, down from 16.9 percent and driven by a fall in demand from private buyers."

Still having trouble?

You keep posting the same out of date data over and over again.

BEV's grew 40% in the UK YOY in 2023

https://www.zap-map.com/ev-stats/ev-market#How Many Plug-In Cars Are There in The UK?

What you continue to struggle with is this from the article above!!

"Note that, in the UK, March and September are new registration plate months, which accounts for the twice-yearly peaks in electric car sales and, historically, a drop in market share in these periods."

You just keep harping on about September numbers which as it highlights above are 2 blips a year when the new registrations come out.

Do try to keep up.

I'm surprised you havent done your research properly old boy!

Edited November 14, 2023 by Rob Plant

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

10 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

You keep posting the same out of date data over and over again.

BEV's grew 40% in the UK YOY in 2023

https://www.zap-map.com/ev-stats/ev-market#How Many Plug-In Cars Are There in The UK?

What you continue to struggle with is this from the article above!!

"Note that, in the UK, March and September are new registration plate months, which accounts for the twice-yearly peaks in electric car sales and, historically, a drop in market share in these periods."

You just keep harping on about September numbers which as it highlights above are 2 blips a year when the new registrations come out.

Do try to keep up.

I'm surprised you havent done your research properly old boy!

Not at all. This is YoY, so that is not explained by your attempt above. Market share dropped YoY for EVs, fossil fuel market share increased YoY.

Read again, "...overall BEV market share dipped slightly to 16.6 percent year-on-year, down from 16.9 percent and driven by a fall in demand from private buyers."

Note, "year-on-year" drop in market share.

Note: " a fall in demand from private buyers" means a drop in absolute numbers of EVs sold to individuals rather than companies..

That was your question.

Edited November 14, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

48 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Not at all. This is YoY, so that is not explained by your attempt above. Market share dropped YoY for EVs, fossil fuel market share increased YoY.

Read again, "...overall BEV market share dipped slightly to 16.6 percent year-on-year, down from 16.9 percent and driven by a fall in demand from private buyers."

Note, "year-on-year" drop in market share.

Note: " a fall in demand from private buyers" means a drop in absolute numbers of EVs sold to individuals rather than companies..

That was your question.

No it wasnt my question at all your deflecting and you know it!

i'll post this once again as you must have missed it!

"Note that, in the UK, March and September are new registration plate months, which accounts for the twice-yearly peaks in electric car sales and, historically, a drop in market share in these periods.

So youve not done your research old pal, if you had you would know that what you keep posting again and again is normal in the UK for March and September only!!! The other 10 months EV's gain market share so your little claim is that for 1/6th of the year ICE fractionally gains market share.

You need to understand how the vehicle market works in the UK and you keep demonstrating the opposite and making yourself look foolish.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

2 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

No it wasnt my question at all your deflecting and you know it!

i'll post this once again as you must have missed it!

"Note that, in the UK, March and September are new registration plate months, which accounts for the twice-yearly peaks in electric car sales and, historically, a drop in market share in these periods.

So youve not done your research old pal, if you had you would know that what you keep posting again and again is normal in the UK for March and September only!!! The other 10 months EV's gain market share so your little claim is that for 1/6th of the year ICE fractionally gains market share.

You need to understand how the vehicle market works in the UK and you keep demonstrating the opposite and making yourself look foolish.

No, you are definitely wrong, the numbers are YOY, not just for a short period, I even highlighted that "YoY" for you above.

That means that your objection is meaningless.

And you are just trying to avoid the sad truth that personal EV sales are plummeting in UK by a whopping 27%.

This is not just due to the removal of government buying incentives for individuals, but also the inability for UK individuals to get insurance coverage at a reasonable rate for any EV purchase, which insurers are avoiding like the plague of olden days.

Edited November 14, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

Thanks to President Biden and his pleas to oil producers to increase their output, the American oil industry is now pumping more oil than at any time in American history, providing the oil producers with magnanimous amounts of money.

Thank you, Mr. President!

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/The-US-Just-Recorded-Its-Highest-Oil-Production-Month-In-History.html

"The United States is on track to set a new annual oil production record in 2023.

October was the highest oil production month in U.S. history.

Oil production has been steadily rising since the Covid-19 crash, despite the Biden Administration’s green energy push."

Edited November 14, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

EV sales in UK are now crippled by a huge increase in EV insurance coverage premiums.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwinton/2023/10/10/insurance-costs-could-cripple-european-electric-car-sales/?sh=56faff2ae68d

"The Motor Easy insurance company said the perception BEVs have fewer moving parts and less can go wrong hasn’t happened. The failure rate is roughly the same. Increased weight puts suspension and braking components under more significant strain in a BEV."

 

"Some insurers are getting nervous about the possible scale of liabilities. John Lewis Financial Services has paused insuring electric vehicles while its underwriter analyses risks and costs.

The cost of replacing batteries is causing insurance companies much angst. Batteries are usually mounted underneath the passenger compartment and cover a huge area. This makes them more vulnerable to damage, and their sensitivity adds to the problem. What would be a minor shunt for an internal combustion engine (ICE) powered vehicle can be catastrophic for an electric one.

A lack of engineering expertise often means the battery has to be written off. Batteries can cost up to half the purchase price of the car. "

Edited November 14, 2023 by Ecocharger

[notsonice + 1,255]

1 hour ago, Ecocharger said:

EV sales in UK are now crippled by a huge increase in EV insurance coverage premiums.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwinton/2023/10/10/insurance-costs-could-cripple-european-electric-car-sales/?sh=56faff2ae68d

"The Motor Easy insurance company said the perception BEVs have fewer moving parts and less can go wrong hasn’t happened. The failure rate is roughly the same. Increased weight puts suspension and braking components under more significant strain in a BEV."

 

"Some insurers are getting nervous about the possible scale of liabilities. John Lewis Financial Services has paused insuring electric vehicles while its underwriter analyses risks and costs.

The cost of replacing batteries is causing insurance companies much angst. Batteries are usually mounted underneath the passenger compartment and cover a huge area. This makes them more vulnerable to damage, and their sensitivity adds to the problem. What would be a minor shunt for an internal combustion engine (ICE) powered vehicle can be catastrophic for an electric one.

A lack of engineering expertise often means the battery has to be written off. Batteries can cost up to half the purchase price of the car. "

I asked my insurance agent if there is  difference in cost for insurance for ICE vehicles and EV's

 

he asked me for a vin which I supplied him for an EV and its cost and asked me for a comparable ICE vehicle with the same cost

 

His answer....same price for insurance...and his comment  was  EV owners are overall safer drivers.....

Guess people who care about the planet are also safety conscience......

so much for your BS

 

[notsonice + 1,255]

1 hour ago, Ecocharger said:

Thanks to President Biden and his pleas to oil producers to increase their output, the American oil industry is now pumping more oil than at any time in American history, providing the oil producers with magnanimous amounts of money.

Thank you, Mr. President!

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/The-US-Just-Recorded-Its-Highest-Oil-Production-Month-In-History.html

"The United States is on track to set a new annual oil production record in 2023.

October was the highest oil production month in U.S. history.

Oil production has been steadily rising since the Covid-19 crash, despite the Biden Administration’s green energy push."

Sleepy Joe understands the transition away from Saudi and Russian oil and Oil in general to EV's takes time

A strong US economy coupled with IRA will pave the way to getting rid of coal and oil

Glad to see you endorsing him for President....he will appreciate your vote.......

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

7 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

You really are confused again, Jay. You got fooled by the plug-ins, which are fossil fuel cars.

Personal EVs took a straight fall in sales numbers and fossil fuel cars increased their market share, I showed you the numbers above.

Get your brain untracked.

And you just keep telling your lies. All plug-in vehicles are EVs. However if you want the real numbers on UK BEV sales growth here they are:

BEV sales were up by 20% in October and increased market share by almost a point. These are the official numbers, you don't get to have an alternate position unless you are lying.

Edited November 14, 2023 by Jay McKinsey

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

2 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

And you just keep telling your lies. All plug-in vehicles are EVs. However if you want the real numbers on UK BEV sales growth here they are:

BEV sales were up by 20% in October and increased market share by almost a point. These are the official numbers, you don't get to have an alternate position unless you are lying.

Those numbers do not look very impressive, Jay if you are trying to show us an improvement in EV market share.

So we have the September 2022 market share for EVs at 16.9%, and the September 2023 market share for EVs at 16.6%.

And the October 2022 market share for EVs at 14.8%, and the October 2023 market share for EVs at 15.6%. That is a 1% decline in market share over September.

Sorry, those are simply not very good numbers for EV market share, I don't know why you thought you had something there.

The real holdbacks on EV growth in UK are the loss of consumer incentives from the government and the unwillingness of the insurance providers to go anywhere near EVs, for the reasons set out above.

Personal EV sales suffered a 27% decline this year in the UK for those two reasons.

Edited November 14, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

44 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Those numbers do not look very impressive, Jay if you are trying to show us an improvement in EV market share.

So we have the September 2022 market share for EVs at 16.9%, and the September 2023 market share for EVs at 16.6%.

And the October 2022 market share for EVs at 14.8%, and the October 2023 market share for EVs at 15.6%.

Sorry, those are simply not very good numbers for EV market share, I don't know why you thought you had something there.

The real holdbacks on EV growth in UK are the loss of consumer incentives from the government and the unwillingness of the insurance providers to go anywhere near EVs, for the reasons set out above.

Personal EV sales suffered a 27% decline this year in the UK.

Sales were up 20%, you said they were down and market share was up YOY but you said it was down. At least we corrected your lies.

Not very good you say yet by percentage only HEV and PHEV (which are EVs whether you like it or not) were higher growth. Just look at those awful growth numbers for petrol and diesel.

And BEV has the second highest market share of any type.

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Jay McKinsey

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

1 hour ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Sales were up 20%, you said they were down and market share was up YOY but you said it was down. At least we corrected your lies.

Not very good you say yet by percentage only HEV and PHEV (which are EVs whether you like it or not) were higher growth. Just look at those awful growth numbers for petrol and diesel.

And BEV has the second highest market share of any type.

 

Jay, you try to be a good salesman, but not even Prof. Harold Hill could persuade me that a 1% drop in market share which EVs experienced from September to October of 2023 represents a gain in market share for EVs....the last time I looked, going from 16.6% to 15.6% market share, a drop of one full percentage point in market share, represents a step downwards for EVs.

I know, I know...you skipped math. But really, that is obvious enough that even you can see it.

But now the British insurance companies are bailing out on EVs, avoiding them like the plague. Looks like the end game for EVs in Britain.

 

Edited November 15, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

4 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Jay, you try to be a good salesman, but not even Prof. Harold Hill could persuade me that a 1% drop in market share which EVs experienced from September to October of 2023 represents a gain in market share for EVs....the last time I looked, going from 16.6% to 15.6% market share, a drop of one full percentage point in market share, represents a step downwards for EVs.

I know, I know...you skipped math. But really, that is obvious enough that even you can see it.

But now the British insurance companies are bailing out on EVs, avoiding them like the plague. Looks like the end game for EVs in Britain.

 

Auto sales metrics are done YOY as sales are very seasonal and different types of vehicles have different seasons. Then your real problem is that PHEV's are EVs. You plug it in and then drive on electricity from the grid = EV. Real EV market share went up by over 3% YOY.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

Just now, Jay McKinsey said:

Auto sales metrics are done YOY as sales are very seasonal and different types of vehicles have different seasons. Then your real problem is that PHEV's are EVs. You plug it in and then drive on electricity from the grid = EV. Real EV market share went up by over 3% YOY.

Hybrids are fossil fuel vehicles, and a full 1% drop in market share in one month is a catastrophe for EVs in Britain, no doubt caused by the disastrous 27% decline in personal EV sales after the buyer incentives were removed last year.

But now the British insurance companies are bailing out on EVs and it is almost impossible to get a reasonable insurance policy for EVs in Britain.

Personally owned EVs in Britain are going the way of the Dodo bird.

 

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

10 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Hybrids are fossil fuel vehicles, and a full 1% drop in market share in one month is a catastrophe for EVs in Britain, no doubt caused by the disastrous 27% decline in personal EV sales after the buyer incentives were removed last year.

But now the British insurance companies are bailing out on EVs and it is almost impossible to get a reasonable insurance policy for EVs in Britain.

Personally owned EVs in Britain are going the way of the Dodo bird.

 

Plug in hybrids are EVs, they drive on electricity from the grid. You just can't handle reality.

Private auto purchases of ALL types are down by 8% year to date but here's the thing, it doesn't matter. Fleet cars are sold used to the public in a couple years. 

 

Used EV sales double in the third quarter of 2023

13 November 2023

Used battery electric vehicle (BEVs) sales have increased dramatically by 99.9% in quarter three of 2023 to 34,021 units.

This means that BEVs represent a record 1.8% share of the used car market, up from 1.0% last year, according to the latest figures published by the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT).

Edited November 15, 2023 by Jay McKinsey

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

5 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Plug in hybrids are EVs, they drive on electricity from the grid. You just can't handle reality.

Private auto purchases of ALL types are down by 8% year to date but here's the thing, it doesn't matter. Fleet cars are sold used to the public in a couple years. 

 

Used EV sales double in the third quarter of 2023

13 November 2023

Used battery electric vehicle (BEVs) sales have increased dramatically by 99.9% in quarter three of 2023 to 34,021 units.

This means that BEVs represent a record 1.8% share of the used car market, up from 1.0% last year, according to the latest figures published by the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT).

Jay, hybrids are fossil fuel cars by definition.

Who would want to buy a used EV? Count me out of that group.

None of this matters if you cannot get auto insurance for EVs, and now the insurance companies are backing out of the EV market....that not only puts the brakes on EV sales, it puts a brick wall in front of the EVs currently in use. That is a dead end market.

Edited November 15, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

Just now, Ecocharger said:

Jay, hybrids are fossil fuel cars by definition.

Who would want to buy a used EV? Count me out of that group.

None of this matters if you cannot get auto insurance for EVs, and now the insurance companies are backing out of the EV market....that not only puts the brakes on EV sales, it puts a brick wall in front of the EVs currently in use.

A car that runs on electricity from the grid without using fossil fuel is by definition an EV. Are you smart enough to know that PHEVs plug into the grid, charge their batteries and run on that electricity without fossil fuel use for an average day's drive? That makes them an EV with a gas backup.

Apparently twice as many people in the UK now want to buy a used EV.

 

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

3 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

A car that runs on electricity from the grid without using fossil fuel is by definition an EV. Are you smart enough to know that PHEVs plug into the grid, charge their batteries and run on that electricity without fossil fuel use for an average day's drive? That makes them an EV with a gas backup.

Apparently twice as many people in the UK now want to buy a used EV.

 

Twice as many as what? Don't confuse us, Jay.

Twice as many as want to jump in a sewer? You need to specify your subject.

If you have a gasoline engine in your car, it is a fossil fuel car. End of story.

But as I stated above, this is all academic...the insurance industry is bailing out of EVs and will eventually stop offering EV insurance. Also end of story.

[TailingsPond + 1,008]

17 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Twice as many as what? Don't confuse us, Jay.

Twice as many as want to jump in a sewer? You need to specify your subject.

If you have a gasoline engine in your car, it is a fossil fuel car. End of story.

But as I stated above, this is all academic...the insurance industry is bailing out of EVs and will eventually stop offering EV insurance. Also end of story.

Not if the engine doesn't start for the duration of the journey.  Follow the energy, if no fossil fuels were burnt it is not a fossil fuel car.  The fact the torque to the wheels comes from electric motors should be a clue.

Your insurance claim is BS.  If they stopped insuring EVs they would soon have no customers as the future is electric.

Edited November 15, 2023 by TailingsPond

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

1 hour ago, TailingsPond said:

Not if the engine doesn't start for the duration of the journey.  Follow the energy, if no fossil fuels were burnt it is not a fossil fuel car.  The fact the torque to the wheels comes from electric motors should be a clue.

Your insurance claim is BS.  If they stopped insuring EVs they would soon have no customers as the future is electric.

Read:  A gasoline engine means a fossil fuel car.

Read: Insurance companies are already avoiding EVs like the plague they are.

EV sales in UK are now crippled by a huge increase in EV insurance coverage premiums.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwinton/2023/10/10/insurance-costs-could-cripple-european-electric-car-sales/?sh=56faff2ae68d

"The Motor Easy insurance company said the perception BEVs have fewer moving parts and less can go wrong hasn’t happened. The failure rate is roughly the same. Increased weight puts suspension and braking components under more significant strain in a BEV."

 

"Some insurers are getting nervous about the possible scale of liabilities. John Lewis Financial Services has paused insuring electric vehicles while its underwriter analyses risks and costs.

The cost of replacing batteries is causing insurance companies much angst. Batteries are usually mounted underneath the passenger compartment and cover a huge area. This makes them more vulnerable to damage, and their sensitivity adds to the problem. What would be a minor shunt for an internal combustion engine (ICE) powered vehicle can be catastrophic for an electric one.

A lack of engineering expertise often means the battery has to be written off. Batteries can cost up to half the purchase price of the car. "

 

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

1 hour ago, Ecocharger said:

Twice as many as what? Don't confuse us, Jay.

Twice as many as want to jump in a sewer? You need to specify your subject.

If you have a gasoline engine in your car, it is a fossil fuel car. End of story.

But as I stated above, this is all academic...the insurance industry is bailing out of EVs and will eventually stop offering EV insurance. Also end of story.

If the car doesn't need to use fossil fuel it is not a fossil fuel car.

This is from a few posts up the page, if only you could read:

Used EV sales double in the third quarter of 2023

13 November 2023

Used battery electric vehicle (BEVs) sales have increased dramatically by 99.9% in quarter three of 2023 to 34,021 units.

This means that BEVs represent a record 1.8% share of the used car market, up from 1.0% last year, according to the latest figures published by the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT).

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

1 hour ago, Jay McKinsey said:

If the car doesn't need to use fossil fuel it is not a fossil fuel car.

This is from a few posts up the page, if only you could read:

Used EV sales double in the third quarter of 2023

13 November 2023

Used battery electric vehicle (BEVs) sales have increased dramatically by 99.9% in quarter three of 2023 to 34,021 units.

This means that BEVs represent a record 1.8% share of the used car market, up from 1.0% last year, according to the latest figures published by the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT).

That is still a tiny miniscule fraction of the used car market, not worth mentioning.

It doesn't change the fact that market share for new EVs has dropped a full percentage point from September to October.

That is a significant downward trend. 

If a car has a gasoline engine, it qualifies as a fossil fuel car. No intelligence required to see that.

And, no, EVs have no future with insurance companies now bailing out on EV coverage.

"The Motor Easy insurance company said the perception BEVs have fewer moving parts and less can go wrong hasn’t happened. The failure rate is roughly the same. Increased weight puts suspension and braking components under more significant strain in a BEV."

 

"Some insurers are getting nervous about the possible scale of liabilities. John Lewis Financial Services has paused insuring electric vehicles while its underwriter analyses risks and costs.

The cost of replacing batteries is causing insurance companies much angst."

End of story.

End of revolution.

 

 

Edited November 15, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

7 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

but not even Prof. Harold Hill could persuade me that a 1% drop in market share which EVs experienced from September to October of 2023

And yet this has been explained to you already several times which you just cant fathom. For your info it will happen again in March and then again next September!

This really isnt rocket science to understand.