GREEN NEW DEAL = BLIZZARD OF LIES

[turbguy + 1,544]

3 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

What was that about?

Just a conspiracy theory that went around in the 1950's about the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Edited July 17, 2021 by turbguy

[Boat + 1,324]

21 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

So, let me get this straight....the Greenies are suggesting that we have too many people on this planet, too much CO2 is required to produce the food needed to sustain the current billions of people. So we have to reduce CO2, reduce agricultural productivity, and that means famine and starvation for billions of people.

That sounds like a simple way to fulfill the Green Dreamers desire for massive extermination of world population. Just let nature take its course, just reduce CO2 and let those folks starve. Brilliant, simple and brutal. The National Socialists in the 1940's used a different technique, not so sophisticated.

 

You get little straight like many of the unwoke. Many of your so called green are as unwoke as the rednecks when it comes to immigration for example. But for someone like you this is to hard to grasp. It’s not something Trump has parroted. It’s not something Bernie has parroted. Some thinking requires commonsense. Sadly conspiracy from group think rules the day.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

6 hours ago, turbguy said:

Just a conspiracy theory that went around in the 1950's about the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Sounds interesting....I wouldn't mind driving a car with 200 mpg. Sounds nice.

Edited July 18, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

2 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Sounds interesting....I wouldn't mind driving a car with 200 mpg. Sounds nice.

Here I thought you were in love with gas guzzling SUVs you keep touting. But apparently you want to use as little gas as possible. I bet you aren't alone, I bet there are a lot of people who want minimal gas usage.

Well you are in luck! A couple new cars are coming to the market that get 200mpge, or more. Here's one:

https://da08ff99-fd1e-4a74-a1ff-5a92f149508f.filesusr.com/ugd/312682_ed4aa901f9314a20a3e0a3aabee2cc09.pdf

Edited July 18, 2021 by Jay McKinsey

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

2 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Here I thought you were in love with gas guzzling SUVs you keep touting. But apparently you want to use as little gas as possible. I bet you aren't alone, I bet there are a lot of people who want minimal gas usage.

Well you are in luck! A couple new cars are coming to the market that get 200mpge, or more. Here's one:

https://da08ff99-fd1e-4a74-a1ff-5a92f149508f.filesusr.com/ugd/312682_ed4aa901f9314a20a3e0a3aabee2cc09.pdf

Where do you fill the gas tank? That gallon of gas needs to give me 200 miles.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

10 hours ago, Boat said:

You get little straight like many of the unwoke. Many of your so called green are as unwoke as the rednecks when it comes to immigration for example. But for someone like you this is to hard to grasp. It’s not something Trump has parroted. It’s not something Bernie has parroted. Some thinking requires commonsense. Sadly conspiracy from group think rules the day.

I agree that we are entering a world of group think and putting our brains on neutral. I see lots of evidence of that. I respond to it every day.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

7 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Where do you fill the gas tank? That gallon of gas needs to give me 200 miles.

Just let it sit or drive in the sunshine and it will magically fill up. 

Edited July 18, 2021 by Jay McKinsey

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

Looks like things are heating up on the political confrontation oil front, which apparently put a bottom on the current market correction for oil.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-weighs-new-sanctions-on-irans-oil-sales-to-china-if-nuclear-talks-fail-11626692402

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

Reality is sinking in...the Swiss have rejected the new Green Dream proposals.

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/reuters-events-reducing-oil-use-meet-climate-targets-is-tougher-than-cutting-2021-06-25/

"targets - such as banning internal combustion engines car sold by 2030 or 50% of aviation fuels coming from non fossil fuels by 2040 - are still wishful thinking as there is no industry-wide, country-wide or global policy approach to making those targets happen."

"How do you convince people to buy an electric vehicle? There really isn't a lot on the market that a lower income family can buy... It really is going to require governments to make politically uncomfortable decisions".

A Reuters/Ipsos poll this month showed that Americans were skeptical about new electric car and truck models, expressing concerns about the potential costs and inconveniences of owning such vehicles.

 

Sims Gallagher says the policies that would work to incentivize EVs are politically challenging - such as imposing a fee on high emissions vehicles and rebate on low emissions vehicles.

Another challenge is a clean grid and many industrialised countries have old grids that need reconstruction."

Edited July 20, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

Americans are not jumping on the electric bandwagon,

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/americans-are-curious-about-electric-trucks-low-cost-durability-come-first-2021-06-15/

"Nearly half of Americans - 46% - believe EVs are not worth the cost, the survey showed, with opinions again reflecting a political divide. EVs have a higher sticker price than comparable gasoline models, largely due to costly batteries.When asked to consider buying a new truck, only a minority said they would search for one that minimizes its impact on the environment. Thirty-eight percent said they would look first for an efficient truck that costs less to operate. Another 34% said they wanted a durable truck, and only about 19% said they wanted an environmentally friendly one."

Edited July 20, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

Another day, another accelerated coal plant closure announced

Vistra Accelerates Closure of Ohio Coal Plant to Mid-2022, Years Earlier Than Planned

IRVING, Texas, July 19, 2021 /PRNewswire/ -- Vistra (NYSE: VST) today announced it will close the Zimmer Power Plant in Moscow, Ohio, by mid-2022. The company had previously announced the plant would retire no later than 2027 based on environmental regulations. The early retirement decision comes after the plant failed to secure any capacity revenues in the latest auction held in May by the grid operator, PJM.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

After capacity factor Solar Wind additions were 3GW. 6x that of Natural Gas.

Edited July 20, 2021 by Jay McKinsey

[turbguy + 1,544]

11 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Another day, another accelerated coal plant closure announced

Vistra Accelerates Closure of Ohio Coal Plant to Mid-2022, Years Earlier Than Planned

IRVING, Texas, July 19, 2021 /PRNewswire/ -- Vistra (NYSE: VST) today announced it will close the Zimmer Power Plant in Moscow, Ohio, by mid-2022. The company had previously announced the plant would retire no later than 2027 based on environmental regulations. The early retirement decision comes after the plant failed to secure any capacity revenues in the latest auction held in May by the grid operator, PJM.

That's a HUGE and relatively young unit!   Originally built to be a nuc, but switched to fossil after unrecoverable paperwork/quality issues arose during construction.

And that "switch" was not cheap.

PJM may require it be modified to synchronous condenser duty.

Edited July 20, 2021 by turbguy

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

On 7/16/2021 at 7:05 PM, Ecocharger said:

Again, Jay, there is no evidence that any of this is currently happening.. In fact, we have observed higher levels of agricultural productivity and enhanced global greening due to higher levels of CO2.

The doomsayers are short again.

The "identified mass extinctions" refers to non-human, tiny structured life forms. The concern was that current CO2 levels would devastate fish populations....no evidence of that, so this looks like another false alarm.

Higher CO2 levels in water leads to explosive growth of fish/molusk/invertebrate food... Same reason COLD water has far more fish/crustaceans in it and why all the great fisheries of the world are in COLD water regions... Cold water holds the CO2 which is ALGAE food which FEEDS the ecosystem.  Hey, don't let science get in the way of the Religious cult of CO2...

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

19 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Another day, another accelerated coal plant closure announced

Vistra Accelerates Closure of Ohio Coal Plant to Mid-2022, Years Earlier Than Planned

IRVING, Texas, July 19, 2021 /PRNewswire/ -- Vistra (NYSE: VST) today announced it will close the Zimmer Power Plant in Moscow, Ohio, by mid-2022. The company had previously announced the plant would retire no later than 2027 based on environmental regulations. The early retirement decision comes after the plant failed to secure any capacity revenues in the latest auction held in May by the grid operator, PJM.

U.S. coal production up 15% this year.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

6 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Higher CO2 levels in water leads to explosive growth of fish/molusk/invertebrate food... Same reason COLD water has far more fish/crustaceans in it and why all the great fisheries of the world are in COLD water regions... Cold water holds the CO2 which is ALGAE food which FEEDS the ecosystem.  Hey, don't let science get in the way of the Religious cult of CO2...

We need the anti-CO2 people to produce some evidence that CO2 devastates fish populations. If that idea has any basis to it, we should have seen it happen by now.

Just another false alarm? Wow. Such desperate grasping at straws.

Edited July 20, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

1 minute ago, Ecocharger said:

U.S. coal production up 15% this year.

And then headed back down, just look how far it is below 2019, ouch!

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

50 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

We need the anti-CO2 people to produce some evidence that CO2 devastates fish populations. If that idea has any basis to it, we should have seen it happen by now.

Just another false alarm? Wow.

It decreases calcium carbonate in the ocean which is detrimental to anything that uses it from plankton to coral to mollusks. Say goodbye to calamari. The big question now is how do these losses affect the food chain, habitat and whole ecosystem of the ocean.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

1 hour ago, Jay McKinsey said:

And then headed back down, just look how far it is below 2019, ouch!

U.S. coal production up 15% this current year...beyond that is pure guesswork from a biased source.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

37 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

It decreases calcium carbonate in the ocean which is detrimental to anything that uses it from plankton to coral to mollusks. Say goodbye to calamari. The big question now is how do these losses affect the food chain, habitat and whole ecosystem of the ocean.

Where is the evidence for the false alarms?

What we do know is that you and I need O2 to survive, breath by breath, and that O2 is produced largely by CO2 stimulating production in the seas and land. Without CO2, the oxygen supply cannot support the current billions of human creatures.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

The Blizzard continues to obscure the issues. The Green Dream is just that---a dream.

The real car makers already know that,

"Toyota’s head of energy and environmental research Robert Wimmer testified before the Senate this week, and said: “If we are to make dramatic progress in electrification,
it will require overcoming tremendous challenges, including refueling infrastructure, battery availability, consumer acceptance, and affordability.”
 
Wimmer’s remarks come on the heels of GM’s announcement that it will phase out all gas internal combustion engines (ICE) by 2035. Other manufacturers, including Mini, have
followed suit with similar announcements.
 
Tellingly, both Toyota and Honda have so far declined to make any such promises. Honda is the world’s largest engine manufacturer when you take its boat, motorcycle, lawnmower,
and other engines it makes outside the auto market into account. Honda competes in those markets with Briggs & Stratton and the increased electrification of lawnmowers, weed trimmers, and the like.
 
Wimmer noted that while manufactures have announced ambitious goals, just 2% of the world’s cars are electric at this point. For price, range, infrastructure, affordability,
and other reasons, buyers continue to choose ICE over electric, and that’s even when electric engines are often subsidized with tax breaks to bring pricetags down.
 
The scale of the switch hasn’t even been introduced into the conversation in any systematic way yet. According to FinancesOnline, there are 289.5 million cars just on U.S.
roads as of 2021. About 98 percent of them are gas-powered. Toyota’s RAV4 took the top spot for purchases in the U.S. market in 2019, with Honda’s CR-V in second. GM’s top seller, the Chevy Equinox, comes in at #4 behind the Nissan Rogue. This is in the U.S.
market, mind. GM only has one entry in the top 15 in the U.S. Toyota and Honda dominate, with a handful each in the top 15.
 
Toyota warns that the grid and infrastructure simply aren’t there to support the electrification of the private car fleet. A 2017 U.S. government study found that we would
need about 8,500 strategically-placed charge stations to support a fleet of just 7 million electric cars. That’s about six times the current number of electric cars but no one is talking about supporting just 7 million cars. We should be talking about powering
about 300 million within the next 20 years, if all manufacturers follow GM and stop making ICE cars.
 
Simply put, we’re gonna need a bigger energy boat to deal with connecting all those cars to the power grids. A LOT bigger.
 
But instead of building a bigger boat, we may be shrinking the boat we have now. The power outages in California and Texas — the largest U.S. states by population and by car
ownership — exposed issues with powering needs even at current usage levels. Increasing usage of wind and solar, neither of which can be throttled to meet demand, and both of which prove unreliable in crisis, has driven some coal and natural gas generators
offline. Wind simply runs counter to needs — it generates too much power when we tend not to need it, and generates too little when we need more. The storage capacity to account for this doesn’t exist yet.
 
We will need much more generation capacity to power about 300 million cars if we’re all going to be forced to drive electric cars. Whether we’re charging them at home or charging
them on the road, we will be charging them frequently. Every gas station you see on the roadside today will have to be wired to charge electric cars, and charge speeds will have to be greatly increased. Current technology enables charges in “as little as 30
minutes,” according to Kelly Blue Book. That best-case-scenario fast charging cannot be done on home power. It uses direct current and specialized systems. Charging at home on alternating current can take a few hours to overnight to fill the battery, and will
increase the home power bill. That power, like all electricity in the United States, comes from generators using natural gas, petroleum, coal, nuclear, wind, solar, or hydroelectric power according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration. I left out
biomass because, despite Austin, Texas’ experiment with purchasing a biomass plant to help power the city, biomass is proving to be irrelevant in the grand energy scheme thus far. Austin didn’t even turn on its biomass plant during the recent freeze.
 
Half an hour is an unacceptably long time to spend at an electron pump. It’s about 5 to 10 times longer than a current trip to the gas pump tends to take when pumps can push
4 to 5 gallons into your tank per minute. That’s for consumer cars, not big rigs that have much larger tanks. Imagine the lines that would form at the pump, every day, all the time, if a single charge time isn’t reduced by 70 to 80 percent. We can expect improvements,
but those won’t come without cost. Nothing does. There is no free lunch. Electrifying the auto fleet will require a massive overhaul of the power grid and an enormous increase in power generation. Elon Musk recently said we might need double the amount of
power we’re currently generating if we go electric. He’s not saying this from a position of opposing electric cars. His Tesla dominates that market and he presumably wants to sell even more of them."
 

Edited July 21, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

12 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

U.S. coal production up 15% this current year...beyond that is pure guesswork from a biased source.

The EIA is biased? HaHaHa, yeah biased in favor of fossil fuels.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

11 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Without CO2, the oxygen supply cannot support the current billions of human creatures.

Where is your evidence that the current population couldn't live in a world with 300ppm CO2?

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

1 hour ago, Jay McKinsey said:

It decreases calcium carbonate in the ocean which is detrimental to anything that uses it from plankton to coral to mollusks. Say goodbye to calamari. The big question now is how do these losses affect the food chain, habitat and whole ecosystem of the ocean.

Sigh...  Still believing that 100% debunked lie about carbonic acid Bull Shit which goes directly against basic Chemistry?  The ocean can absorb 100% of every single Carbon atom on earth and STILL have a surplus of CALCIUM...  You could look up basic chemistry and ocean composition... Why ocean "acidification" disappeared a quick death... except by morons. 

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

31 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

The Green Dream is just that---a dream.

The real car makers already know that,

"Toyota’s head of energy and environmental research Robert Wimmer testified before the Senate this week, and said: “If we are to make dramatic progress in electrification,
it will require overcoming tremendous challenges, including refueling infrastructure, battery availability, consumer acceptance, and affordability.”
 
Wimmer’s remarks come on the heels of GM’s announcement that it will phase out all gas internal combustion engines (ICE) by 2035. Other manufacturers, including Mini, have
followed suit with similar announcements.
 
Tellingly, both Toyota and Honda have so far declined to make any such promises. Honda is the world’s largest engine manufacturer when you take its boat, motorcycle, lawnmower,
and other engines it makes outside the auto market into account. Honda competes in those markets with Briggs & Stratton and the increased electrification of lawnmowers, weed trimmers, and the like.
 
Wimmer noted that while manufactures have announced ambitious goals, just 2% of the world’s cars are electric at this point. For price, range, infrastructure, affordability,
and other reasons, buyers continue to choose ICE over electric, and that’s even when electric engines are often subsidized with tax breaks to bring pricetags down.
 
The scale of the switch hasn’t even been introduced into the conversation in any systematic way yet. According to FinancesOnline, there are 289.5 million cars just on U.S.
roads as of 2021. About 98 percent of them are gas-powered. Toyota’s RAV4 took the top spot for purchases in the U.S. market in 2019, with Honda’s CR-V in second. GM’s top seller, the Chevy Equinox, comes in at #4 behind the Nissan Rogue. This is in the U.S.
market, mind. GM only has one entry in the top 15 in the U.S. Toyota and Honda dominate, with a handful each in the top 15.
 
Toyota warns that the grid and infrastructure simply aren’t there to support the electrification of the private car fleet. A 2017 U.S. government study found that we would
need about 8,500 strategically-placed charge stations to support a fleet of just 7 million electric cars. That’s about six times the current number of electric cars but no one is talking about supporting just 7 million cars. We should be talking about powering
about 300 million within the next 20 years, if all manufacturers follow GM and stop making ICE cars.
 
Simply put, we’re gonna need a bigger energy boat to deal with connecting all those cars to the power grids. A LOT bigger.
 
But instead of building a bigger boat, we may be shrinking the boat we have now. The power outages in California and Texas — the largest U.S. states by population and by car
ownership — exposed issues with powering needs even at current usage levels. Increasing usage of wind and solar, neither of which can be throttled to meet demand, and both of which prove unreliable in crisis, has driven some coal and natural gas generators
offline. Wind simply runs counter to needs — it generates too much power when we tend not to need it, and generates too little when we need more. The storage capacity to account for this doesn’t exist yet.
 
We will need much more generation capacity to power about 300 million cars if we’re all going to be forced to drive electric cars. Whether we’re charging them at home or charging
them on the road, we will be charging them frequently. Every gas station you see on the roadside today will have to be wired to charge electric cars, and charge speeds will have to be greatly increased. Current technology enables charges in “as little as 30
minutes,” according to Kelly Blue Book. That best-case-scenario fast charging cannot be done on home power. It uses direct current and specialized systems. Charging at home on alternating current can take a few hours to overnight to fill the battery, and will
increase the home power bill. That power, like all electricity in the United States, comes from generators using natural gas, petroleum, coal, nuclear, wind, solar, or hydroelectric power according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration. I left out
biomass because, despite Austin, Texas’ experiment with purchasing a biomass plant to help power the city, biomass is proving to be irrelevant in the grand energy scheme thus far. Austin didn’t even turn on its biomass plant during the recent freeze.
 
Half an hour is an unacceptably long time to spend at an electron pump. It’s about 5 to 10 times longer than a current trip to the gas pump tends to take when pumps can push
4 to 5 gallons into your tank per minute. That’s for consumer cars, not big rigs that have much larger tanks. Imagine the lines that would form at the pump, every day, all the time, if a single charge time isn’t reduced by 70 to 80 percent. We can expect improvements,
but those won’t come without cost. Nothing does. There is no free lunch. Electrifying the auto fleet will require a massive overhaul of the power grid and an enormous increase in power generation. Elon Musk recently said we might need double the amount of
power we’re currently generating if we go electric. He’s not saying this from a position of opposing electric cars. His Tesla dominates that market and he presumably wants to sell even more of them."
 

Toyota is scared to death. They screwed up and backed hydrogen and now they are bashing the transition in an attempt to slow it down while they frantically partner with EV and battery producers to try and catch up. 

BYD, Toyota Launch BYD TOYOTA EV TECHNOLOGY Joint Venture to Conduct Battery Electric Vehicle R&D

Toyota and Panasonic Decide to Establish Joint Venture Specializing in Automotive Prismatic Batteries

Toyota and Subaru are teaming up for this spacious electric SUV concept

Toyota Details Six New EV Models Launching for 2020–2025

The automaker is pushing its electric-car rollout up a few years in response to global demand.

• Toyota is pushing up its planned EV rollout by five years.
• Global demand for electric cars is outpacing Toyota's predictions, forcing the company to act.

 

Edited July 21, 2021 by Jay McKinsey