Ecocharger + 1,474 DL April 22 There is an essential problem with the EU market for CO2 permits on the ETS. The market does not internalize the CO2 emissions of products imported into the EU, and we know that the vast majority of CO2 emissions related to EV production is from Chinese sources which are not reflected in the EU carbon permit market. Thus there is a fundamental design flaw in the mechanism to push the carbon transition forward, the basic mechanism has been to simply export the CO2 problem to another jurisdiction which is increasing its coal and CO2 profile in recent years. That is just playing a shell game with the issue, moving the source of CO2 around the board into different locations. This is a gigantic exercise in public deception, worthy of the worst aspects of political chicanery. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Carbon-Price-Crash-Threatens-EU-Transition-Funds.html 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM April 22 On 4/18/2024 at 6:26 PM, Ecocharger said: Coal is King. Long live the King. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Coal/Coal-Continues-to-Thrive-Despite-Pledges-for-Clean-Energy.html "Last year, China’s new plant construction reached an eight-year high, and if the government goes ahead with existing plant proposals it could increase its operating fleet by around one-third. China accounts for approximately 60 percent of the global coal usage, followed by India – which derives 80 percent of its electricity from coal – and the U.S." "While coal production and consumption are falling rapidly in the U.S. and parts of Europe, this is being outweighed by the rising demand in Asia. China and India intend to increase their coal consumption to meet the demands of population growth and industrialisation, constructing new coal plants to meet this rising demand, despite the increasing global pressure to decarbonise." The problem with this analysis is to connect the dots...namely, why is China rapidly increasing its coal generated energy? The answer is...to meet the needs of the EV transition. Just as we saw earlier, the drive to EV transport forces the increase of coal production, and the overall net effect on atmosphere is to increase significantly the atmospheric CO2 content. Are you listening, Mr. President? Coal is King. Long live the King.?????? Coal is King???? Add Poland to your list where Coal is doomed A 26% plunge in coal mining weighed on Poland's industrial output in March 2024, casting a shadow over the expectations that the biggest emerging-market economy in Europe would grow by the expected 3% this year.31 mins ago Slump in Coal Production Drags Down Poland's Economic ... Crude Oil Prices Today | OilPrice.com https://oilprice.com › Latest Energy News About featured snippets• Feedback Oil Prices Start the Week Lower as Fears of a War Between ... Crude Oil Prices Today | OilPrice.com https://oilprice.com › Latest Energy News 10 hours ago — 5 mins Slump in Coal Production Drags Down Poland's Economic Recovery. 1 hour Gazprom Shut Down Dozens of Natural Gas Wells Ahead of Spring ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,008 GE April 22 21 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: Thus there is a fundamental design flaw in the mechanism to push the carbon transition forward, the basic mechanism has been to simply export the CO2 problem to another jurisdiction which is increasing its coal and CO2 profile in recent years. That is just playing a shell game with the issue, moving the source of CO2 around the board into different locations. This is a gigantic exercise in public deception, worthy of the worst aspects of political chicanery. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Carbon-Price-Crash-Threatens-EU-Transition-Funds.html You repeatedly claim CO2 is not a problem. Have you come to some sort of realization recently? Learning is good, it is okay to admit you were wrong, we learn from mistakes. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL April 22 59 minutes ago, notsonice said: Coal is King. Long live the King.?????? Coal is King???? Add Poland to your list where Coal is doomed A 26% plunge in coal mining weighed on Poland's industrial output in March 2024, casting a shadow over the expectations that the biggest emerging-market economy in Europe would grow by the expected 3% this year.31 mins ago Slump in Coal Production Drags Down Poland's Economic ... Crude Oil Prices Today | OilPrice.com https://oilprice.com › Latest Energy News About featured snippets• Feedback Oil Prices Start the Week Lower as Fears of a War Between ... Crude Oil Prices Today | OilPrice.com https://oilprice.com › Latest Energy News 10 hours ago — 5 mins Slump in Coal Production Drags Down Poland's Economic Recovery. 1 hour Gazprom Shut Down Dozens of Natural Gas Wells Ahead of Spring ... You really are confused, your response is unrelated to my post. Wake me up when you wake up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL April 22 41 minutes ago, TailingsPond said: You repeatedly claim CO2 is not a problem. Have you come to some sort of realization recently? Learning is good, it is okay to admit you were wrong, we learn from mistakes. You really are confused, it is the governments who believe that CO2 is a problem to be addressed, not me. I should have thought that this would be obvious to you by now. CO2 is not a problem in reality, but governments are destroying our standard of living for it. That is a problem. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM April 22 4 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: You really are confused, your response is unrelated to my post. Wake me up when you wake up. you are bragging about Coal is King I am just pointed out to you that coal is doomed What do you think about the numbers out of Poland???? do the numbers work for your claim that Coal is King.... In light of the fact that Poland is the last bastion of Coal is King in Europe...correction was the last bastion get used to it as it will happen in your beloved China ........... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190 April 22 35 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: You really are confused, it is the governments who believe that CO2 is a problem to be addressed, not me. I should have thought that this would be obvious to you by now. CO2 is not a problem in reality, but governments are destroying our standard of living for it. That is a problem. No, it is anti science religious NUT JOBS who believe zealously CO2 is a problem. When the nut jobs actually remove heat island city data from their temp stations which also act as a check on satellite data let us know. They may actually become scientists. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190 April 22 (edited) 41 minutes ago, notsonice said: you are bragging about Coal is King I am just pointed out to you that coal is doomed What do you think about the numbers out of Poland???? do the numbers work for your claim that Coal is King.... In light of the fact that Poland is the last bastion of Coal is King in Europe...correction was the last bastion get used to it as it will happen in your beloved China ........... Coal is KING If you have coal and nothing else: Coal is KING Does UK have coal to use? No. Does Belgium have coal to use anymore? No. Does Germany? No, but they are using lignite currently.... Does Italy have coal? No. Spain? No. Does ANYONE other than Poland have coal in Europe? No. Poland uses coal--> they have it and will use ALL of it until it runs out or someone figures out fusion nuclear reactors. Does Poland have solar? No. Does Poland have wind? No. Does Poland have Geothermal? Hell no! Poland has coal and refuses to be slaves as they have been for 200 years. Coal is KING EDIT: Little ol' Chechia has coal(same coal seem as Poland. They claim they will phase it out--> Hell NO they will not. Edited April 22 by footeab@yahoo.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,008 GE April 22 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ecocharger said: CO2 is not a problem in reality, but governments are destroying our standard of living for it. That is a problem. How, personally, is addressing CO2 emissions lowering your standard of living? Are you living paycheck to paycheck? Would a small increase in gasoline prices (carbon tax) really effect how much you drive? Show me the problem. If the problem is national finances focus on the big spenders. The government wastes huge amounts of money on military, and foreign military aid to a non NATO nation. We should be focusing on the easiest way to reduce emissions, peace would be a great start. Sadly a single war operation renders pretty much makes all other small emission reductions moot. Tanks do not have good fuel economy and artillery shells are carbon intensive. Edited April 22 by TailingsPond 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,008 GE April 22 1 hour ago, footeab@yahoo.com said: Does Poland have solar? No. The sun doesn't shine in Poland? 2 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM April 22 (edited) 1 hour ago, footeab@yahoo.com said: No, it is anti science religious NUT JOBS who believe zealously CO2 is a problem. When the nut jobs actually remove heat island city data from their temp stations which also act as a check on satellite data let us know. They may actually become scientists. No, it is anti science religious NUT JOBS who believe zealously CO2 is a problem???? what is it like to be a Luddite????? and living in denial at the same time???? every science article on CO2 sends you into the fetal position??? just asking for a friend PS my friend is wondering , are you making big bucks , consulting to government agencies , in your quest to put roads into tunnels????? PSS what happened to all of your BS statements you were posting in the other chat.......did you forget to stick to energy related posts again????? It seems you have problems keeping on subject...you might want to get a checkup just to be safe Edited April 22 by notsonice Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM April 22 (edited) 1 hour ago, footeab@yahoo.com said: Coal is KING If you have coal and nothing else: Coal is KING Does UK have coal to use? No. Does Belgium have coal to use anymore? No. Does Germany? No, but they are using lignite currently.... Does Italy have coal? No. Spain? No. Does ANYONE other than Poland have coal in Europe? No. Poland uses coal--> they have it and will use ALL of it until it runs out or someone figures out fusion nuclear reactors. Does Poland have solar? No. Does Poland have wind? No. Does Poland have Geothermal? Hell no! Poland has coal and refuses to be slaves as they have been for 200 years. Coal is KING EDIT: Little ol' Chechia has coal(same coal seem as Poland. They claim they will phase it out--> Hell NO they will not. Coal is doomed UK dumped it Poland is dumping it (it seems you are bothered with facts.........my my) Germany is almost done dumping it....enjoy the transition Green Age is here today....Coal Age is a thing of the past Does UK have coal to use? No???? you are wrong again (as usual) The UK has identified hard coal resources of 3 560 million tonnes, although total resources could be as large as 187 billion tonnes. About 80 million tonnes of the economically recoverable reserves are available in shallow deposits capable of being extracted by surface mining. Does Germany? No, but they are using lignite currently.????? you are wrong again (as usual) 36.1 billion tonnes Germany – 36.1 billion tonnesHolding the biggest coal reserves in Europe, Germany hosts 3.4% of the world's total proved coal reserves. The Ruhr Coal Basin in the North Rhine-Westphalia state and the Saar Basin in the south-west Germany account for more than 75% of the country's hard coal production.Nov 14, 2021 Countries with the biggest coal reserves - Mining Technology Poland Poland – 26.4 billion tonnes Poland’s proven coal reserves at the end of 2018 accounted for approximately 2.5% of the world’s total proved coal reserves. Most of the country’s hard coal reserves are located in Upper Silesia and in the Lublin basin in eastern Poland, while the Belchatow lignite basin in central Poland accounts for more than half of Poland’s total lignite production. The Belchatow lignite mine provides coal supply for the 5.29GW Belchatow power plant, which is the biggest coal-fired power plant in Europe. Poland is the world’s ninth biggest and Europe’s second biggest coal producer. It produced 122Mt of coal in 2018, accounting for 1.2% of the world’s total coal output. It also accounted for 1.3% of the world’s total coal consumption during the same year. Approximately 80% of the country’s electricity generation is based on coal. Edited April 22 by notsonice 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190 April 22 (edited) 2 hours ago, notsonice said: Coal is doomed UK dumped it Poland is dumping it (it seems you are bothered with facts.........my my) Germany is almost done dumping it....enjoy the transition Green Age is here today....Coal Age is a thing of the past Does UK have coal to use? No???? you are wrong again (as usual) The UK has identified hard coal resources of 3 560 million tonnes, although total resources could be as large as 187 billion tonnes. About 80 million tonnes of the economically recoverable reserves are available in shallow deposits capable of being extracted by surface mining. Does Germany? No, but they are using lignite currently.????? you are wrong again (as usual) 36.1 billion tonnes Germany – 36.1 billion tonnesHolding the biggest coal reserves in Europe, Germany hosts 3.4% of the world's total proved coal reserves. The Ruhr Coal Basin in the North Rhine-Westphalia state and the Saar Basin in the south-west Germany account for more than 75% of the country's hard coal production.Nov 14, 2021 Countries with the biggest coal reserves - Mining Technology Poland Poland – 26.4 billion tonnes Poland’s proven coal reserves at the end of 2018 accounted for approximately 2.5% of the world’s total proved coal reserves. Most of the country’s hard coal reserves are located in Upper Silesia and in the Lublin basin in eastern Poland, while the Belchatow lignite basin in central Poland accounts for more than half of Poland’s total lignite production. The Belchatow lignite mine provides coal supply for the 5.29GW Belchatow power plant, which is the biggest coal-fired power plant in Europe. Poland is the world’s ninth biggest and Europe’s second biggest coal producer. It produced 122Mt of coal in 2018, accounting for 1.2% of the world’s total coal output. It also accounted for 1.3% of the world’s total coal consumption during the same year. Approximately 80% of the country’s electricity generation is based on coal. Ah yes, proving once again, fools like you can't read, or do basic research. I never said put roads underground. Did say to put railroads under there though. UK's "coal" possible "resources" are under the sea... Great mining location apparently and judging by your highlighting ability where Million means a couple weeks of power... which if you bothered to look deeper, the UK is keeping for STEEL production. Germany's coal Reserves.... Google's crap 'search" engine makes it difficult but you just search for Germany Lignite Coal reserves and subtract from known reserves... ~35Gtons is lignite out of ~40Gtons. Wakey wakey Gasp, poor baby boo boo. Brown is also a stand in for Lignite. No one willingly mines Brown lignite coal unless you are DESPERATE. PS: Australia does not even classify ANY of Germany's "coal" as Black. So, depending on WHOSE statistics you are counting.... https://www.ga.gov.au/digital-publication/aecr2023/coal USA for instance does not count ANY coal seam of less than 1.5m thickness even if the seam is right on top of another seam separated by as little as 1ft of dirt as reserves and has to be within 300m of surface. If the USA changed reserves to only 1m thickness, and allowed for 1m between seams, Illinois would, by itself have over 250Gtons of coal which is what currently the ENTIRE USA claimed reserves. Russia for instance calls a seam thickness of 0.6m-->0.7m as deep as 1200m "reserves. Then again, this is from gem.wiki which then claims USA claims reserves of 0.25m and 600m as reserves which I patently know to be 100% false so... Lets just not use the above "claim" for Russia eh? Then again, they do correctly use the 300m depth and 1.5m thickness USA data later so... go figure. They seem confused or someone who wrote in never bothered to read base documents for several coal seam deposits and just winged it. Do prattle onwards. Bravo! Guess what Germany will continue to use until the last of said Lignite is burned or Fusion is found to work? Lignite is what. Edited April 22 by footeab@yahoo.com 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM April 22 China Coal....doomed China Coal production dropped 4.2% from a year earlier to 705 million tons for January and February combined, according to data from the National Bureau of Statistics. That's the first year-on-year decline since September 2021.Mar 17, 2024 China Coal Output Posts First Decline Since Beijing Ordered ... China coal industry doesn't expect imports to rise this year Reuters https://www.reuters.com › markets › commodities › chi... Mar 8, 2024 — XIAMEN, China, March 8 (Reuters) - China's coal imports are expected to be little changed or decline in 2024 despite an expected increase in ... Global coal demand expected to decline in coming years IEA – International Energy Agency https://www.iea.org › news › global-coal-demand-expe... Dec 15, 2023 — As a result, Chinese coal demand is expected to fall in 2024 and plateau through 2026. That said, the outlook for coal in China will be . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL April 23 8 hours ago, notsonice said: you are bragging about Coal is King I am just pointed out to you that coal is doomed What do you think about the numbers out of Poland???? do the numbers work for your claim that Coal is King.... In light of the fact that Poland is the last bastion of Coal is King in Europe...correction was the last bastion get used to it as it will happen in your beloved China ........... Coal demand is up to all-time highs, so what is your point? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL April 23 6 hours ago, TailingsPond said: How, personally, is addressing CO2 emissions lowering your standard of living? Are you living paycheck to paycheck? Would a small increase in gasoline prices (carbon tax) really effect how much you drive? Show me the problem. If the problem is national finances focus on the big spenders. The government wastes huge amounts of money on military, and foreign military aid to a non NATO nation. We should be focusing on the easiest way to reduce emissions, peace would be a great start. Sadly a single war operation renders pretty much makes all other small emission reductions moot. Tanks do not have good fuel economy and artillery shells are carbon intensive. Taking away the family vehicle from average and poor income American families is an assault on their basic standard of living. And it is being done without any reason. That is the problem. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,008 GE April 23 (edited) 4 hours ago, Ecocharger said: Taking away the family vehicle from average and poor income American families is an assault on their basic standard of living. And it is being done without any reason. That is the problem. The question was how is this lowering your standard of living. If you are a poor American family at risk of losing their car you can say so. There are plenty of reasons beyond CO2. Edited April 23 by TailingsPond 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,008 GE April 23 Fresh air will raise your standard of living. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP April 23 On 4/20/2024 at 8:23 PM, footeab@yahoo.com said: PS: Please do post UK numbers next... No you wouldnt want that as it proves you wrong! coal use was 1.1% of all powergen in the UK last year! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP April 23 (edited) 20 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said: Does UK have coal to use? No. Does Belgium have coal to use anymore? No. Does Germany? No, but they are using lignite currently.... Does Italy have coal? No. Spain? No. Does ANYONE other than Poland have coal in Europe? No. Poland uses coal--> they have it and will use ALL of it until it runs out or someone figures out fusion nuclear reactors. Really? Hmmm I dont think so Theres also this thing called importing! maybe you havent heard of it? China have! Edited April 23 by Rob Plant 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP April 23 19 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said: Does Poland have solar? No. Does Poland have wind? No. Does Poland have Geothermal? Hell no! Hmmm Wrong again! Generation from renewable energy sources increased by 117%, from 17 TWh in 2013 to 36.8 TWh. In 2022, 36.8 TWh of electricity was produced from RES – 20% more than in 2021. Wind power was responsible for more than half of the production from RES (53%) in 2022, solar PV accounted for 22%, and biomass for 12%. Poland - Energy Sector (trade.gov) 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP April 23 (edited) 16 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said: I never said put roads underground. Did say to put railroads under there though. Equally as stupid and even more uneconomic! How many projects have you got off the ground? sorry I mean underground! You proposed underground train systems in the countryside, what moron is going to pay for that? Your math is an absolute joke as are your tunnels! Edited April 23 by Rob Plant 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190 April 23 2 hours ago, Rob Plant said: Really? Hmmm I dont think so Theres also this thing called importing! maybe you havent heard of it? China have! So, you reply PROVING my point? Oh right, you think you actually made the opposite point as you REFUSE to do basic math Bravo! 🤡i Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL April 23 11 hours ago, TailingsPond said: The question was how is this lowering your standard of living. If you are a poor American family at risk of losing their car you can say so. There are plenty of reasons beyond CO2. Your point has already been disproved a hundred times, air pollution is being rapidly reduced toward zero in spite of increased fossil fuel use...you need to find a better tag line. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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