Ecocharger + 1,486 DL September 26 2 hours ago, Rob Plant said: Youre now talking production levels when we were talking sales! Why cant you ever stick to what we are talking about? If manufacturing plants are converting their factories from ICE production to EV production as your article states then what does that tell you Mr.Economist??? Doesnt it say clearly the disruption to business as usual will mean a decline in general production, but the bigger picture means they are moving away from producing ICE vehicle and moving toward producing EV's! Thanks for totally ruining your own argument, glad to see you finally agree with me old man. Your comment is on a par with Footinmouth's grand tunnel scheme 🤣 I guess you failed the general intelligence test again...in fact, there was no evidence in that article that the reduction in the output of EVs is related to anything in the "transition", but rather a failure in the plans to make a transition. That sop about changing the production equipment is clearly that, a sop. There is nothing to support it. What you have there is a failure of EV sales, pure and simple, very much in line with the French and German loss of sales volume and the increase in sales of fossil fuel vehicles. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP September 26 3 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: I guess you failed the general intelligence test again...in fact, there was no evidence in that article that the reduction in the output of EVs is related to anything in the "transition", but rather a failure in the plans to make a transition. That sop about changing the production equipment is clearly that, a sop. There is nothing to support it. What you have there is a failure of EV sales, pure and simple, very much in line with the French and German loss of sales volume and the increase in sales of fossil fuel vehicles. I think you are referring to news such as this that was literally posted today on Sky news web site:- Electric car production falls despite looming 2035 combustion engine deadline Electric car production falls despite looming 2035 combustion engine deadline | Business News | Sky News The fact remains car manufacturers in the UK despite admittedly weakening demand are spending hundreds of millions to adapt their plants to accommodate EV car production! So for you to say this "there was no evidence in that article that the reduction in the output of EVs is related to anything in the "transition", but rather a failure in the plans to make a transition." is clearly utter BS. Clearly there are plans and clear evidence that production output is temporarily decreasing whilst builds and retrofits such as this are happening! I'm afraid once again Eco you couldnt be more wrong if you tried. Keep it up though youre highly entertaining. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,013 GE September 27 (edited) On 9/24/2024 at 9:42 AM, Ecocharger said: The date of your article is not relevant when the data is mostly prospective and ignores the trend lines. How is that OXY stock you like trending? Told ya. https://www.google.com/finance/quote/OXY:NYSE?window=6M Edited September 27 by TailingsPond 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,486 DL September 27 On 9/26/2024 at 11:18 AM, Rob Plant said: I think you are referring to news such as this that was literally posted today on Sky news web site:- Electric car production falls despite looming 2035 combustion engine deadline Electric car production falls despite looming 2035 combustion engine deadline | Business News | Sky News The fact remains car manufacturers in the UK despite admittedly weakening demand are spending hundreds of millions to adapt their plants to accommodate EV car production! So for you to say this "there was no evidence in that article that the reduction in the output of EVs is related to anything in the "transition", but rather a failure in the plans to make a transition." is clearly utter BS. Clearly there are plans and clear evidence that production output is temporarily decreasing whilst builds and retrofits such as this are happening! I'm afraid once again Eco you couldnt be more wrong if you tried. Keep it up though youre highly entertaining. I guess you missed the fact that auto manufacturers in the EU are pleading with Brussels to withdraw or eliminate the planned phaseouts of fossil fuel cars? You should get up to date. https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Major-Automakers-Returning-to-Gasoline-Cars-as-EV-Demand-Slows.html "Major carmakers in the U.S. and Europe are scaling back production of electric vehicles amid overcapacity and are rethinking their ambitious EV sales goals. EV demand has visibly softened over the past year, leaving legacy automakers in the U.S., Germany, and France struggling with an overcapacity of their EV models as they realize that the transition to fully electrified transportation will be taking longer than they thought. Carmakers in the U.S., Germany, and France are currently producing EVs at levels of about 40%-45% below earlier expectations, the chief executive of French auto parts supplier OPmobility told Bloomberg on Tuesday." "At the same time, hybrid vehicle sales have accelerated and may exceed forecasts, Goldman Sachs noted. Automakers have bet on hybrids amid the slowing EV demand. Ford Motor Company, for example, said earlier this year it is delaying the planned rollout of some of its next-generation EVs as it is expanding hybrid vehicle offerings, in the latest sign that consumer uptake of EVs has slowed down. More recently, Porsche watered down on Monday its goal to have EVs account for 80% of all sales by 2030, saying this would depend on the market, and that “The transition to electric cars is taking longer than we thought five years ago.” " Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,486 DL September 27 (edited) 7 hours ago, TailingsPond said: How is that OXY stock you like trending? Told ya. https://www.google.com/finance/quote/OXY:NYSE?window=6M Well, yes, you guys are in real trouble trying to pedal those EVs to an unwilling market. Tough luck, buddy. I am still hoping that you will survive this anti-transition.... https://www.acea.auto/pc-registrations/new-car-registrations-18-3-in-august-2024-bev-market-share-down-by-almost-one-third/ "In August 2024, new EU car registrations saw a sharp decrease (-18.3%) with negative results across the region’s four major markets: double-digit losses were witnessed in Germany (-27.8%), France (-24.3%), and Italy (-13.4%), with the Spanish market declining by 6.5%." "In August 2024, registrations of battery-electric (BEV) cars dropped by 43.9% to 92,627 units (compared to 165,204 the same period last year), with their total market share slipping to 14.4% from 21% a year before. This was driven by the spectacular drop in the two biggest markets for BEV cars: Germany (-68.8%) and France (-33.1%). From January to August, 902,011 new battery-electric cars were registered, representing 12.6% of the market." Edited September 27 by Ecocharger 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,013 GE September 27 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: Well, yes, you guys are in real trouble trying to pedal those EVs to an unwilling market. How is a petroleum company stock losing >20% of its value in just 6 months bad news for EV cars? How am I part of "you guys" in trouble? And where is the trouble? Tesla is up >40% in last 6 months. https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=Tesla+stock One again for the slow learners, the oil company Eco lauded is down a lot, the EV company he hates is up a lot. https://www.google.com/finance/quote/OXY:NYSE?window=6M Take ownership of your predictions. Accept that you suck at this. Edited September 27 by TailingsPond 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,013 GE September 27 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: I guess you missed the fact that auto manufacturers in the EU are pleading with Brussels to withdraw or eliminate the planned phaseouts of fossil fuel cars They can cry all they want. Let me know when they change the plan. Edited September 27 by TailingsPond Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,486 DL September 28 (edited) 11 hours ago, TailingsPond said: They can cry all they want. Let me know when they change the plan. The change in plans is already being cried out for by the auto makers. The people who are still pushing the "transition" have not yet given up the fight, but they will eventually have to do just that. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/UK-Car-Factories-Gear-Up-for-Electric-Shift.ht "Battery electric, plug-in hybrid and hybrid production for the month fell by 25 per cent but the SMMT said the decline is expected to be reversed as new models come onstream. Production for the domestic market fell by almost 20% while exports were down by 5.9%." "Mike Hawes, SMMT chief executive, said: “Realising those investments and securing more depends on the UK industry maintaining its competitiveness so we look forward both to the Chancellor’s autumn budget and the Government’s proposed Industrial Strategy as critical opportunities to demonstrate that it backs auto.”" In other words, "HELP! We need HELP!" Edited September 28 by Ecocharger 2 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,013 GE September 28 31 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: The change in plans is already being cried out for by the auto makers. They can cry all they want, as I said let me know when the government plans actually change. "Any day now!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,013 GE September 28 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: In other words, "HELP! We need HELP!" Indeed. Also, you didn't answer the question as usual. How is your hot pick for oil stock being down >20% and Tesla up >40% past 6 months bad news for EV manufacturers? What forms of pollution would you support regulating? You seem to support all pollution Edited September 28 by TailingsPond Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,266 DM September 28 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: The change in plans is already being cried out for by the auto makers. The people who are still pushing the "transition" have not yet given up the fight, but they will eventually have to do just that. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/UK-Car-Factories-Gear-Up-for-Electric-Shift.ht "Battery electric, plug-in hybrid and hybrid production for the month fell by 25 per cent but the SMMT said the decline is expected to be reversed as new models come onstream. Production for the domestic market fell by almost 20% while exports were down by 5.9%." "Mike Hawes, SMMT chief executive, said: “Realising those investments and securing more depends on the UK industry maintaining its competitiveness so we look forward both to the Chancellor’s autumn budget and the Government’s proposed Industrial Strategy as critical opportunities to demonstrate that it backs auto.”" In other words, "HELP! We need HELP!" Coal 2024 Production for the domestic market fell by almost 20% while exports were down by 5.9%." Yep Coal has been falling in the US for years enjoy the green Agenda Edited September 28 by notsonice Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,486 DL September 30 On 9/28/2024 at 12:42 AM, notsonice said: Coal 2024 Production for the domestic market fell by almost 20% while exports were down by 5.9%." Yep Coal has been falling in the US for years enjoy the green Agenda In the U.S., you say? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron Wagner + 714 September 30 On 9/19/2024 at 4:10 AM, Boat said: I thought government debt would destroy the US economy back when GW cut taxes and went into two wars. Apparently I was very wrong. lol I look across Houston roads and do not see the auto industry dying. I see many cars. I also see smog. Real wages are affected by inflation maybe caused by the Russians and Saudi cutting oil production? Inflation has cut buying power but national debt has reached levels that would require high taxes to ever pay off, and then it would take a long time. The American people are not interested in austerity. Trump, if elected, will try to grow the economy and get rid of government waste and corruption. Even that would take decades to pay down the debt. 1 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron Wagner + 714 September 30 On 9/20/2024 at 2:56 AM, Rob Plant said: "Oil is HOT and getting HOTTER!!!" Oh wait....... thats Eco talking again. Reality says this:- Can OPEC+ Prevent Another Rout in Oil Prices? What Can OPEC+ Do To Prevent Another Rout in Oil? | OilPrice.com The OPEC+ alliance has delayed unwinding production cuts due to weak oil demand and falling prices. The market is increasingly bearish, with speculators and money managers holding net short positions in oil futures. Analysts predict a continued oil market surplus and lower prices in the coming months due to weak demand and rising supply. Oil Prices Tumble As Traders Slash Bullish Bets Oil Prices Tumble As Traders Slash Bullish Bets | OilPrice.com How are your investments going Eco??? I bet you made a killing on betting on $100/b oil!! I am thrilled with low oil prices. It will have a great effect on overall transportation pricing of goods for everyone. Most people don't look at the overall factors affecting prices. Making taxpayers subsidize EVs, solar and wind are also big costs. 1 1 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,486 DL September 30 6 minutes ago, Ron Wagner said: I am thrilled with low oil prices. It will have a great effect on overall transportation pricing of goods for everyone. Most people don't look at the overall factors affecting prices. Making taxpayers subsidize EVs, solar and wind are also big costs. Yes, less expensive gasoline and coal creates more jobs, and does not depend on massive budget -breaking government spending, unlike the renewable sector. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron Wagner + 714 September 30 https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/energy/grid-operators-warn-us-supreme-court-epas-rules-will-cause-widespread outages. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron Wagner + 714 September 30 On 9/27/2024 at 11:42 PM, notsonice said: Coal 2024 Production for the domestic market fell by almost 20% while exports were down by 5.9%." Yep Coal has been falling in the US for years enjoy the green Agenda Primarily due to increased use of natural gas generation, which is far more reasonable and would not have escalated the price of electricity to the consumers. Natural gas destroyed coal long before any wind turbines or solar plants. It did not need government subsidies either. 5 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,013 GE October 1 (edited) On 9/29/2024 at 6:50 PM, Ron Wagner said: Inflation has cut buying power but national debt has reached levels that would require high taxes to ever pay off, and then it would take a long time. The American people are not interested in austerity. Trump, if elected, will try to grow the economy and get rid of government waste and corruption. Even that would take decades to pay down the debt. Why do you think he will reduce corruption and government waste this time after his last failure? He had 4 years to "drain the swamp" but what changed? The debt and deficit reached record levels under him. He is the corruption (twice impeached, felon). Edited October 1 by TailingsPond Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,266 DM October 1 On 9/29/2024 at 9:08 PM, Ron Wagner said: Primarily due to increased use of natural gas generation, which is far more reasonable and would not have escalated the price of electricity to the consumers. Natural gas destroyed coal long before any wind turbines or solar plants. It did not need government subsidies either. Natural gas destroyed coal long before any wind turbines or solar plants???? notice the peak in coal nat gas combined in 2007....same year that Wind Generation took off.......total nat gas/coal has decreased every since...... and overall net generation has been flat since 2007 , now you still think that nat gas alone is destroying Coal?????? and now renewables are taking on Nat gas generation in the US,,,,,,, Same as the UK............ Now where did the Luddite that keeps crying Coal is King run off to??????? PS and the Coal miners friend in the US who claimed in 2015 that he was going to reverse the decline???? , he did nothing to stop the slide in coal, all BS talk 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,266 DM October 1 Pesky solar panels .....now overall nat gas generation is headed for decline try this one on for size, nat gas retirements are now bigger than coal retirements........ Retired capacity: Retirement of U.S. electric generating capacity has slowed in 2024. Operators retired 5.1 GW of generating capacity in the first half of the year. During the first six months of 2023, operators retired 9.2 GW of generation. In the first half of 2024, more than half (53%) of the retired capacity had used natural gas as its fuel, followed by coal at 41%. and what is replacing Coal and Nat gas in the US.......Pesky solar panels....get used to it Luddites, 2025 will not be a year that the decline in fossil fuels slows down. retirements in Nat gas are now bigger than Nat gas additions U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) (.gov) U.S. power grid added 20.2 GW of generating capacity in the first half of 2024 Developers and power plant owners added 20.2 gigawatts (GW) of utility-scale electric generating capacity in the United States during the first half of 2024. . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specinho + 475 October 1 (edited) On 9/25/2024 at 1:06 PM, turbguy said: What are the "natural limits" in the matter. Not a chart or curve, but words please. On 9/26/2024 at 10:54 AM, turbguy said: Thank you. That helped. I have to ask: "What is the natural market limit for petroleum"? Vaguely recall supply-demand curve in determining basic price for a product. Could recall might be because ages ago, my class took the test first and upon request, I tutelaged my friend from different class on similar test questions and methods to answer. 'o' ^-^ 🤗 Here's the definition from google: What is the demand curve defined as? A demand curve is a graph depicting the inverse demand function, a relationship between the price of a certain commodity (the y-axis) and the quantity of that commodity... ( that can be produced) (the x-axis). https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › D... Therefore, natural limit of a demand curve is determined by a) how much product can be produced/ supplied b) reasonable price that could bring in sustainable profit 2. Natural market limit for petroleum might be similar... Edited October 1 by specinho Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,266 DM October 1 and the future....pesky solar panels ...Luddites hate them ........Coal is already toast...only 5 more years...and coal burning in the US is will be less than 5 percent of the market and the Nat gas parade........... it peaked and now is down hill..Nat gas retirements are now exceeding nat gas additions in the US Enjoy the green agenda.............does any doubt solar generation coupled with battery storage is going to take over?????? here is one projection 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,266 DM October 1 (edited) On 7/3/2024 at 9:16 PM, Ecocharger said: Demand for oil is hot and getting hotter. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Prices/Standard-Chartered-Oil-Rally-Will-Extend-Well-Beyond-90-Per-Barrel.html "Oil is off to a strong start of Q3 with Brent rallying past $86 per barrel. According to commodity analysts at Standard Chartered, the Brent rally is sustainable well past $90/bbl. Standard Chartered: global oil markets will record a deficit in Q3 that will spill over into Q4." Demand for oil is hot and getting hotter. How is your July 3 BS holding up????????? 3 months later today and how is your statement holding up????? you posted.........Demand for oil is hot and getting hotter.???? Brent over $90....you where pumping it on July 3.....did you go long in oil???? did you make a fortune????? love your posting.......Standard Chartered: global oil markets will record a deficit in Q3 that will spill over into Q4. Newsflash.........Standard Chartered's predictions were BS they are an oil trader looking at profiting off of slow ones such as yourself now tell us all how Demand for oil is hot and getting hotter.???? Brent is now under $70 and OPEC has thrown in the towel.............Guess what.....your pals in Saudi Arabia are going to crash your oil markets and open up their taps....... Love the biggest winner...Ukraine....as Russia's oil export income is crashing right now when do you think your oil demand is going to pick up and set a floor for Brent????? $60 Brent a new floor in 2024????? maybe $50 in 2025??????...and oil demand????? even at $70 oil no one is stepping up and snapping up Brent for delivery now or in the future...Demand sucks and as a result the market is oversupplied...Pesky EVs in China Brent Dec 2027 contracts are at $69.50 less than what it is worth today............ Demand for oil is hot and getting hotter?????? What a f...ing joke here is where your pals at Standard Chartered were predicting for the quarter that started today in mid June...Love their prediction of $106 Brent in this quarter...... The analysts highlighted in the report that Standard Chartered’s machine learning oil price model indicates a June 24 Brent oil price settlement of $84 per barrel, “with technical indicators the main drag on prices (the 50-day,100-day and 200-day Brent moving-averages are all close to $84 per barrel)”. Standard Chartered projected in the report that the nearby future ICE Brent crude oil price will average $98 per barrel in the third quarter and $106 per barrel in the fourth quarter. Edited October 1 by notsonice 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,486 DL October 2 It looks like EVs are in serious trouble, especially in Europe, where the failures of government budgets have removed public support for EV sales. Too bad...excuse me while I weep for the pathetic downturn in EVs, this really hurts. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Could-The-Arkansas-Lithium-Boom-Be-Over-Before-It-Starts.html "Lithium prices have fallen sharply due to slowing EV demand in key markets like Europe, causing concern about the future of the lithium boom. New lithium extraction technologies, like direct lithium extraction, are less environmentally damaging than traditional methods. Last month, the prices for lithium carbonate and lithium hydroxide—the two most popular market forms of the metal—dipped below $10,000 per ton." 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,486 DL October 2 Even Chinese EVs are vulnerable to the new market realities, as this article makes clear. Tough luck for the EV industry. https://eutoday.net/chinese-electric-vehicle-sales-drop-sharply-in-europe/ "According to Bloomberg, registrations of Chinese electric cars fell by 48% compared to the same period last year, leading to a two-month consecutive drop in market share for Chinese brands. One of the key players affected by this downturn is MG, a historic British marque now owned by China’s SAIC Motor. Once a dominant force in the European market, MG was overtaken by its Chinese competitor, BYD Co., as the top Chinese EV brand in Europe. The drop in MG’s sales—down 65% in August—has been attributed to uncertainty surrounding potential tariffs from the European Union on Chinese imports, " Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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