GREEN NEW DEAL = BLIZZARD OF LIES

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4 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

You really are out of touch with reality.

Read and learn, non-economist,

Once again not your words.

Address the massive Tesla growth.

[TailingsPond + 1,007]

6 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Nonsense, you give us complete nonsense.

Address the massive Tesla increase using your own words.

Simple.

Anything less is just a bot regurgitating biased internet garbage.  The numbers I posted are real numbers in real time.  Not opinion, not forecasts, real numbers.

You can address the realty of Tesla massive price increase or deny reality and post some other opinion blog because you can't write for yourself.

 

Edited November 14 by TailingsPond

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People should not call themselves economists when they can not comment on the economy for themselves.

The changes in WTI price and Tesla share price are real numbers that could be addressed, but are not.  Capitulation is a loss, inability to use own words is a failure.

 

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6 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Read your morning quota of real analysis for a change,

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/Canadian-Oil-Stands-To-Profit-From-Trumps-Energy-Agenda.html

 

Just to be clear you think this Irina Slav writer for oilprice.com can provide a better economic analysis than yourself?

Obviously she is a better writer than you, but is she really an economist?

I wonder how much a writer for oilprice gets paid.  I'm guessing significantly less than a successful economist. 

I also have good reason to believe you are not employed as an economist, so maybe stop with that shtick.   

Edited November 14 by TailingsPond

[Ecocharger + 1,473]

30 minutes ago, TailingsPond said:

Just to be clear you think this Irina Slav writer for oilprice.com can provide a better economic analysis than yourself?

Obviously she is a better writer than you, but is she really an economist?

I wonder how much a writer for oilprice gets paid.  I'm guessing significantly less than a successful economist. 

I also have good reason to believe you are not employed as an economist, so maybe stop with that shtick.   

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about, so I will make this brief. 

First, Tesla is suffering just like other EV manufacturers.

As an ill-informed non-economist, you are incapable of understanding even the most basic data.

Read the analysis of genuine market analysts. 

https://www.investors.com/news/tesla-stock-a-buy-or-a-sell-elon-musk-donald-trump/#:~:text=Wall Street consensus also has,decline vs. %243.12 in 2023.

"Wall Street consensus also has 2024 Tesla earnings firmly below last year's level. That signals another year of earnings declines for this growth stock. Analysts currently expect Tesla earnings per share of just $2.42 in 2024, according to FactSet. That would be about a 22% decline vs. $3.12 in 2023."

"Musk set sky-high expectations for the "We Robot" event. But after showing off a Cybercab and Robovan late on Oct. 10, the market seemed unimpressed with Musk as he once more claimed full autonomous driving will come "next year" but did not offer any details or updates of an "affordable" EV."

 

Tesla is falling again, sad story.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/dereksaul/2024/11/12/tesla-stock-dips-3-as-post-election-surge-cools-off/

"Shares of Tesla slipped Tuesday as part of a broader cooling off among the hottest trades following last week’s election of Donald Trump"

Second, the run-up in Tesla stock had little to do with EVs.

"Tesla’s core ambitions like electric and autonomous vehicles, solar energy and robotics “is going to involve government and industrial partnership on a scale some have compared to the Manhattan Project, US Highway Act or the Apollo Missions,” Jonas added."

"...accelerate Tesla’s journey beyond autos,” wrote Morgan Stanley "

In other words, a further dependence on government help, which might not be forthcoming.

Other non-EV sales benefits might include "“streamlining” regulatory approval of Tesla’s self-driving cars and the potential for Tesla to secure further market share in the U.S. with the potential cutback of federal tax credits for electric vehicles." Tesla might gain market share when the rest of the EV sector declines.

 

Edited November 14 by Ecocharger

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3 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

Once again not your words.

Address the massive Tesla growth.

You really do indulge in counterfactuals, showing an enormous lack of knowledge.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/teslas-oct-china-made-ev-sales-fall-53-yy-2024-11-04/

"U.S. automaker Tesla (TSLA.O),  sold 68,280 China-made electric vehicles in October, down 5.3% from a year earlier, data from the China Passenger Car Association (CPCA) showed on Monday.

Deliveries of China-made Model 3 and Model Y vehicles fell 22.7% from the previous month."

Edited November 14 by Ecocharger

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10 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

First, Tesla is suffering just like other EV manufacturers.

Explain the massive increase in share price. They have made billions in the last month. Many, many billions.  If that is suffering give me some!

+50% in last month, + 86% last 6 months, market cap of 1.05 trillion.

Who gives a crap about selling cars when you are making so much cash off investor confidence?  Money is money and they are not suffering.  Have you never heard of venture capitalism?  You don't actually have to make a product or run a profit, you only need to convince people that in the long-term the company will be successful.  The data is clear, the investors have dollar voted for Tesla.  People are still buying into them even after the big price jump.

If you had had the wisdom to buy into Tesla 6 months ago you could be happily selling a portion of your shares as profit taking. +86% in 6 months is one damn fine investment!  You of course didn't do that because you are likely broke with your "down is good (oil) up is bad (Tesla)" economic theories.

You're making yourself into more of a clown, just saying. 

Edited November 14 by TailingsPond

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10 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

You really do indulge in counterfactuals, showing an enormous lack of knowledge.

They made billions. You refuse to address all the money they are making!

Do banks need to sell cars to get rich? Making money has a lot less to do with selling products than you think.

5% less sales? Wow, nobody cares about that when you are making loads of money!!! +86% in last 6 months, unreal gains.  Very happy investors.

You guys should work selling used cars not predicting the economy at a financial institution or large corporation.  %5 less sales matters to the guy on the car lot, not to the big boys with billions of bucks.

Once you have a lot of money you don't actually have to do anything to stay rich. Money works for you.

 

Edited November 14 by TailingsPond

[Ecocharger + 1,473]

7 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

They made billions. You refuse to address all the money they are making!

Do banks need to sell cars to get rich? Making money has a lot less to do with selling products than you think.

5% less sales? Wow, nobody cares about that when you are making loads of money!!! +86% in last 6 months, unreal gains.  Very happy investors.

You guys should work selling used cars not predicting the economy at a financial institution or large corporation.  %5 less sales matters to the guy on the car lot, not to the big boys with billions of bucks.

Once you have a lot of money you don't actually have to do anything to stay rich. Money works for you.

 

It does not work for Tesla. Earnings are down, product sales are down. Just like the EV sector in general.

Edited November 14 by Ecocharger

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1 hour ago, Ecocharger said:

It does not work for Tesla. Earnings are down, product sales are down. Just like the EV sector in general.

Who cares?  I already told you sales are not necessary to make money. 

Tesla has clearly made a crap ton of money as of late. You refuse to accept and explain this reality.

Call it a a bubble or whatever you want, but know they have a trillion dollar valuation.  They are not suffering.

You should work at a car lot, selling used, gasoline-powered cars.  You have absolutely no idea on how to make money in the financial game.

[Old-Ruffneck + 1,245]

8 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

They made billions. You refuse to address all the money they are making!

Do banks need to sell cars to get rich? Making money has a lot less to do with selling products than you think.

5% less sales? Wow, nobody cares about that when you are making loads of money!!! +86% in last 6 months, unreal gains.  Very happy investors.

You guys should work selling used cars not predicting the economy at a financial institution or large corporation.  %5 less sales matters to the guy on the car lot, not to the big boys with billions of bucks.

Once you have a lot of money you don't actually have to do anything to stay rich. Money works for you.

 

If investors want to put thier money in Tesla or Exxon or whatever, there is a downside risk too. It will catch up in short order if units are not selling like Jeep Wranglers. Mass produced and many sitting on lots unsold at 10% inflated price over last year. The dealers are the ones that will end up suffering, then the trickle down . Tho you could buy one to help save Elon. LOL  Exxon is not drilling as much and letting share holders get some bux back. Your economics is screwed up. 

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1 hour ago, Ecocharger said:

Just like the EV sector in general.

You know Tesla doesn't just sell cars right? They sell green energy products like solar panel and batteries.

This is the green energy thread, not the EV sales thread.

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13 minutes ago, Old-Ruffneck said:

If investors want to put thier money in Tesla or Exxon or whatever, there is a downside risk too. It will catch up in short order if units are not selling like Jeep Wranglers. Mass produced and many sitting on lots unsold at 10% inflated price over last year. The dealers are the ones that will end up suffering, then the trickle down . Tho you could buy one to help save Elon. LOL  Exxon is not drilling as much and letting share holders get some bux back. Your economics is screwed up. 

I don't have to buy any Tesla product to make money.  Venture capitalists do not risk their own money.

I assure you Elon does not need saving.  You guys ignore all the money he / they are making. 

Any theory you have has to explain how Tesla has a much larger valuation than Ford who historically makes ICE engines (but now also EV).

Ford: 44 billion, Tesla: 975 billion after today's profit taking.

Exxon: 530 billion

So essentially Tesla could buy both Ford and Exxon if comparing market caps - and have 401 billion to spare.

Edited November 14 by TailingsPond

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1 minute ago, TailingsPond said:

I don't have to buy any Tesla product to make money.  Venture capitalists do not risk their own money.

I assure you Elon does not need saving.  You guys ignore all the money he / they are making. 

Any theory you have has to explain how Tesla has a much larger valuation than Ford who historically makes ICE engines (but now also EV).

Ford: 44 billion, Tesla: 975 billion after today's profit taking.

If folks want to invest in Tesla, which seems the case, let them. I can tell you that by selling less units month after month, it'll crash. There is no way Tesla is worth a trillion, and will self adjust in the coming months. If you can't understand that, then there is no one person on this forum that can help you to understand the economics of business. 

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13 minutes ago, Old-Ruffneck said:

If folks want to invest in Tesla, which seems the case, let them. I can tell you that by selling less units month after month, it'll crash. There is no way Tesla is worth a trillion, and will self adjust in the coming months. If you can't understand that, then there is no one person on this forum that can help you to understand the economics of business. 

I understand the valuation is not because of sales, but the company is absolutely worth that amount right now; is it based off solid sales metrics?  No, it is built on faith in the company.  The oil industry wishes they had investors with that kind of faith.

Like I showed, more investor faith in Tesla than Ford and Exxon combined.

 

Edited November 14 by TailingsPond

[Ecocharger + 1,473]

36 minutes ago, TailingsPond said:

Who cares?  I already told you sales are not necessary to make money. 

Tesla has clearly made a crap ton of money as of late. You refuse to accept and explain this reality.

Call it a a bubble or whatever you want, but know they have a trillion dollar valuation.  They are not suffering.

You should work at a car lot, selling used, gasoline-powered cars.  You have absolutely no idea on how to make money in the financial game.

They are suffering because earnings are down, product sales are down. Just like the EV sector in general.

[Ecocharger + 1,473]

40 minutes ago, TailingsPond said:

You know Tesla doesn't just sell cars right? They sell green energy products like solar panel and batteries.

This is the green energy thread, not the EV sales thread.

They talk up new products which never arrive on the market. Some people still listen to that.

"Musk set sky-high expectations for the "We Robot" event. But after showing off a Cybercab and Robovan late on Oct. 10, the market seemed unimpressed with Musk as he once more claimed full autonomous driving will come "next year" but did not offer any details or updates of an "affordable" EV."

Perhaps Musk would like a smooth regulatory approval for self-drive? We shall see.

Edited November 14 by Ecocharger

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15 minutes ago, Old-Ruffneck said:

 you to understand the economics of business. 

You understand the economics of small business where sales matter and you have to pay your bills every month.

Big business doesn't work the same way, you can exploit bubbles, use lots of credit instruments, lobby the government, etc.

Giving the POTUS elect 75 million might give Musk a bit of an edge.

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7 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

They are suffering because earnings are down, product sales are down. Just like the EV sector in general.

Same garbage answer.  They are not suffering with the billions of profits. Only an epic moron would say a company reporting massive valuation growth is suffering.

Also your WTI sitting at $68 and change is not what normal people call doing well.

Edited November 14 by TailingsPond

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28 minutes ago, Old-Ruffneck said:

 will self adjust in the coming months.

Okay put your prediction to test here.  "In the coming months" isn't good enough, that is "any day now" BS.

How many months? How much price correction?  It will likely go down a bit due to investor profit taking.

Nov 14th at market close Tesla is $311.18 USD.  

I challenge you and Ecocharger to put some forecasts in writing. What will it be Dec 14th, Jan 14th, Feb14th?   Those are the "coming months."

[Old-Ruffneck + 1,245]

54 minutes ago, TailingsPond said:

Same garbage answer.  They are not suffering with the billions of profits. Only an epic moron would say a company reporting massive valuation growth is suffering.

Also your WTI sitting at $68 and change is not what normal people call doing well.

Trust me, they are still making money even at 68. Even if it drops to 60 a bbl they are making money. You're factoring the "greed" and emotion of a Tesla. It's not worth a trillion plus, and if oil drops much lower, they won't be selling half what they are now. You think 50% of the USA car buying segment will buy a Tesla or any EV when gas will be at 2.25 a gallon? Electricity is still more expensive per mile than a 38k ICE vehicle that gets 30 mpg plus. Your a moron with an attitude that everyone WANTS an Electric car. The whole country as whole is still 98% ICE on new vehicles. Lithium mines are closing down even at 350 a ton, that should be tell. Keep dreaming and like I told you the other day, you're a hypocrite as you have the means to buy an EV but you haven't. 

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1 hour ago, TailingsPond said:

Okay put your prediction to test here.  "In the coming months" isn't good enough, that is "any day now" BS.

How many months? How much price correction?  It will likely go down a bit due to investor profit taking.

Nov 14th at market close Tesla is $311.18 USD.  

I challenge you and Ecocharger to put some forecasts in writing. What will it be Dec 14th, Jan 14th, Feb14th?   Those are the "coming months."

Tesla Inc.

Wedbush analysts led by Dan Ives raised their price target for Tesla from $300 to $400 per share in a note Monday, writing "we believe the march to a $1.5 trillion and $2 trillion valuation for TSLA over the next 12 to 18 months has now begun."

Tesla shares jumped more than 10% in late-morning trading to around $355 per share on Monday, after its valuation topped $1 trillion for the first time in two years on Friday. The stock is up more than 44% over the past five days, and has soared 64% over the past month.

Well here is an "expert" saying 2 trillion in the long range. I say if you believe that, sell a house and put your money into Tesla. Me personally, I think it'll drop back to the 265 range in next 6 months. Super overvalued companies inevitable to crash. There is nothing to sustain "fake value" long term. But hey, I don't envy Elon if he can get his cars out there for double the value. Just like oil, if it swings to 150+ a bbl it'll self correct.

Tesla recalls 2,400 Cybertrucks for concerns related to drive inverter | Fox Business   one fuckin' ugly truck that is worthless to any construction company. 

[Ecocharger + 1,473]

3 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

Okay put your prediction to test here.  "In the coming months" isn't good enough, that is "any day now" BS.

How many months? How much price correction?  It will likely go down a bit due to investor profit taking.

Nov 14th at market close Tesla is $311.18 USD.  

I challenge you and Ecocharger to put some forecasts in writing. What will it be Dec 14th, Jan 14th, Feb14th?   Those are the "coming months."

Not necessary, you have already been provided with it.

3 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

Same garbage answer.  They are not suffering with the billions of profits. Only an epic moron would say a company reporting massive valuation growth is suffering.

Also your WTI sitting at $68 and change is not what normal people call doing well.

Read the analysis of genuine market analysts. Tesla is suffering from declines in earnings and reduction in sales.

https://www.investors.com/news/tesla-stock-a-buy-or-a-sell-elon-musk-donald-trump/#:~:text=Wall Street consensus also has,decline vs. %243.12 in 2023.

"Wall Street consensus also has 2024 Tesla earnings firmly below last year's level. That signals another year of earnings declines for this growth stock. Analysts currently expect Tesla earnings per share of just $2.42 in 2024, according to FactSet. That would be about a 22% decline vs. $3.12 in 2023."

"U.S. automaker Tesla (TSLA.O),  sold 68,280 China-made electric vehicles in October, down 5.3% from a year earlier, data from the China Passenger Car Association (CPCA) showed on Monday.

Deliveries of China-made Model 3 and Model Y vehicles fell 22.7 % from the previous month."

Edited November 15 by Ecocharger

[TailingsPond + 1,007]

4 hours ago, Old-Ruffneck said:

Trust me, they are still making money even at 68. Even if it drops to 60 a bbl they are making money. You're factoring the "greed" and emotion of a Tesla. It's not worth a trillion plus, and if oil drops much lower, they won't be selling half what they are now. You think 50% of the USA car buying segment will buy a Tesla or any EV when gas will be at 2.25 a gallon? Electricity is still more expensive per mile than a 38k ICE vehicle that gets 30 mpg plus. Your a moron with an attitude that everyone WANTS an Electric car. The whole country as whole is still 98% ICE on new vehicles. Lithium mines are closing down even at 350 a ton, that should be tell. Keep dreaming and like I told you the other day, you're a hypocrite as you have the means to buy an EV but you haven't. 

Put 1, 2, 3 month predictions on Tesla.  Why not?

If oil drops much lower the energy companies will further diversify. Notice I call them energy companies.

[Ecocharger + 1,473]

6 minutes ago, TailingsPond said:

Put 1, 2, 3 month predictions on Tesla.  Why not?

If oil drops much lower the energy companies will further diversify. Notice I call them energy companies.

How much have you bought into Tesla stock? Nothing? Thought so.

Musk is now stuck with this loser which he bought earlier and cannot unload. Brilliant hunch.

https://www.wsj.com/tech/elon-musks-twitter-takeover-is-now-the-worst-buyout-for-banks-since-the-financial-crisis-3f4272cb

"Elon Musk’s Twitter Takeover Is Now the Worst Buyout for Banks Since the Financial Crisis

Loans of around $13 billion have remained ‘hung’ for nearly two years, bringing in interest payments but weighing on banks’ balance sheets"

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/mar/26/twitter-usage-in-us-fallen-by-a-fifth-since-elon-musks-takeover#:~:text=As of February 2024%2C the,X's drop in user numbers.

"As of February 2024, the social network’s daily app users in America had fallen by 23% since November 2022, just after Musk completed his takeover."

Edited November 15 by Ecocharger