Ecocharger + 1,474 DL October 5, 2021 8 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said: Said the buggy whip investor when horseless carriages reached 20% of the new carriage market. Jay, what laws and subsidies were implemented to help the autos replace the horse? Was there a public ban on horse use? No, that was a free market transition, not a government diktat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nsdp + 449 eh October 5, 2021 (edited) On 10/4/2021 at 9:37 PM, Ecocharger said: Read the report...NG PIPELINES were shut down because of electricity cutoffs. NG pipelines are part of the NG generator backup system. How do think that NG gets into the generators..by bucket? Sorry, you need a pipeline to do that. What part of that escapes you? There is no way you can talk your way around this, the failure to classify NG pipelines as essential infrastructure meant that the electricity needed for NG pipelines was terminated and NG generators were shut down. Only generators supplied by intrastate pipelines regulated by the PUCT and RRC. GSEC had no curtailments nor did SPS. Their gas supplies were regulated by FERC. AS was El Paso Electric and Entergy. forgot those two, Edited October 6, 2021 by nsdp forgot EPE and entegy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL October 5, 2021 3 minutes ago, nsdp said: How about a stupidity test that you have to pass before you are allowed to post. Generators get power from their own transformers (self supply) not the grid.UNLESS some fool in dispatch disconnected them during black start. . That's right, they carry the NG from a depot terminal by bucket and pour the NG into the generator...no need for an NG pipeline. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL October 5, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, nsdp said: Only generators supplied by intrastate pipelines regulated by the PUCT and RRC. GSEC had no curtailments nor did SPS. Their gas supplies were regulated by FERC. Enough were shut down to cause a catastrophe...it was stated in black and white in the report. "Grant Ruckel, vice president of government affairs at pipeline company Energy Transfer, testified that the biggest failure during the disaster was cutting power to gas pipelines, many of which are not listed as essential services, a designation made for hospitals and other critical infrastructure. About half of the gas pipelines use electricity in their compressors, about half use natural gas in compressors and a few use diesel fuel, said Christi Craddick, chair of the Texas Railroad Commission, which oversees the oil and gas industry. “How could we let those compressors be part of the blackout if there is a process for critical load and essential services?” said Rep. Eddie Lucio III, D-Brownsville. “How did that slip through the cracks and then allow generation plants to fail? That is just baffling to me.” Craddick said she was not aware before this week that operators could register as essential services through the Electric Reliability Council of Texas, known as ERCOT. “I didn’t know that was an opportunity. We’d never been told that as an agency, to my knowledge,”" Edited October 5, 2021 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL October 5, 2021 8 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said: A Saudi desperate for money can say anything and you will believe it. Pay attention to that 24 million bdp scenario, it is very feasible. They have the ability to make it happen, Jay, aided and abetted by the Green revolution. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eyes Wide Open + 3,555 October 5, 2021 24 minutes ago, nsdp said: How about a stupidity test that you have to pass before you are allowed to post. Generators get power from their own transformers (self supply) not the grid.UNLESS some fool in dispatch disconnected them during black start. . I might suggest a long drive in your minivan, a sight seeing adventure. TIme to slow down pops your in over your head a smidge. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-20/a-giant-flaw-in-texas-blackouts-it-cut-power-to-gas-supplies When the Texas power grid was on the brink of collapse and its operator plunged thousands into darkness, it didn’t make an exception for the oil and gas field. Power was, unsurprisingly, diverted to hospitals and nursing homes. Ercot, as the grid manager is known, was staving off utter catastrophe, its chief executive later said. But leaving shale fields like the Permian Basin dark had an unintended consequence. Producers who depend on electricity to power their operations were left with no way to pump natural gas. And that gas was needed more than ever to generate electricity. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nsdp + 449 eh October 5, 2021 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: Enough were shut down to cause a catastrophe...it was stated in black and white in the report. "Grant Ruckel, vice president of government affairs at pipeline company Energy Transfer, testified that the biggest failure during the disaster was cutting power to gas pipelines, many of which are not listed as essential services, a designation made for hospitals and other critical infrastructure. About half of the gas pipelines use electricity in their compressors, about half use natural gas in compressors and a few use diesel fuel, said Christi Craddick, chair of the Texas Railroad Commission, which oversees the oil and gas industry. “How could we let those compressors be part of the blackout if there is a process for critical load and essential services?” said Rep. Eddie Lucio III, D-Brownsville. “How did that slip through the cracks and then allow generatioaving electricyn plants to fail? That is just baffling to me.” Craddick said she was not aware before this week that operators could register as essential services through the Electric Reliability Council of Texas, known as ERCOT. “I didn’t know that was an opportunity. We’d never been told that as an agency, to my knowledge,”" The gas pipelines don't need electricity to compress and deliver gas to customers. Under the Natural Gas Pipeline Safety Act of 1968, mainline compression is prohibited from having AC electricity in the station. Under the Natural Gas Pipeline Safety Act of 1968, mainline compression is required to use DC with battery backup. I bet you have never been in a compressor station to know how they work. Craddick is suffering from permanent memory loss since she was Chairwoman of the PUCT when FERC required Texas to establish critical infrastructure and revise it every year. Edited October 5, 2021 by nsdp duplicate sentence Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nsdp + 449 eh October 5, 2021 8 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said: I might suggest a long drive in your minivan, a sight seeing adventure. TIme to slow down pops your in over your head a smidge. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-20/a-giant-flaw-in-texas-blackouts-it-cut-power-to-gas-supplies When the Texas power grid was on the brink of collapse and its operator plunged thousands into darkness, it didn’t make an exception for the oil and gas field. Power was, unsurprisingly, diverted to hospitals and nursing homes. Ercot, as the grid manager is known, was staving off utter catastrophe, its chief executive later said. But leaving shale fields like the Permian Basin dark had an unintended consequence. Producers who depend on electricity to power their operations were left with no way to pump natural gas. And that gas was needed more than ever to generate electricity. That means that the PUCT and the RRC were both ignoring the critical infrastructure rules of the Energy Policy ACT of 2005. Stupidity across the board in Austin. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nsdp + 449 eh October 5, 2021 41 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: That's right, they carry the NG from a depot terminal by bucket and pour the NG into the generator...no need for an NG pipeline. No Stupid. They connect a pipeline to a gas compressor which runs on natural gas not electricity. Do You even know the safety rules for natural gas??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turbguy + 1,544 October 5, 2021 45 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: Read the report...NG PIPELINES were shut down because of electricity cutoffs. NG pipelines are part of the NG generator backup system. How do think that NG gets into the generators..by bucket? Sorry, you need a pipeline to do that. What part of that escapes you? There is no way you can talk your way around this, the failure to classify NG pipelines as essential infrastructure meant that the electricity needed for NG pipelines was terminated and NG generators were shut down. NOT easily avoided, as the people running the system were unaware of any exemptions, and the "papers" you refer to were not exemption declarations, but applications to be considered for exempt status. That all takes time, and since no one was informed about the procedure, no one was making any applications. All of this was caused by anti-fossil fuel mania generated by climate panic propaganda. THAT I can agree with. WHY didn't the Nat Gas electric generators supply power to support the pipelines?? Why didn't the the Nat Gas providers do their job? WHY didn't the TRRC do their job? Remember the order of failure here. The Nat gas generators should have been FORCED by ERCOT to start early, rather than delaying for favorable "market conditions" As done in "well-run" grids... That said, the root cause of this entire event was "it got REALLY cold". 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL October 5, 2021 (edited) 19 minutes ago, turbguy said: THAT I can agree with. WHY didn't the Nat Gas electric generators supply power to support the pipelines?? Why didn't the the Nat Gas providers do their job? WHY didn't the TRRC do their job? Remember the order of failure here. The Nat gas generators should have been FORCED by ERCOT to start early, rather than delaying for favorable "market conditions" As done in "well-run" grids... That said, the root cause of this entire event was "it got REALLY cold". Read the report...NG generators did ramp up rapidly to a very high level, but were shut down because of electricity cutoffs to the NG pipelines. That was in the report. If you think that it happened differently, give us a link to support your views. " About half of the gas pipelines use electricity in their compressors, " Edited October 5, 2021 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL October 5, 2021 20 minutes ago, nsdp said: No Stupid. They connect a pipeline to a gas compressor which runs on natural gas not electricity. Do You even know the safety rules for natural gas??? The report says differently, that about half of NG pipelines rely on electricity for compression. If you believe differently, give us a link to support your views. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,490 October 5, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ecocharger said: Jay, what laws and subsidies were implemented to help the autos replace the horse? Was there a public ban on horse use? No, that was a free market transition, not a government diktat. Yes there was a public ban on horse use in many cities and neighborhoods. How do you not know this? People are switching to EV's long before the bans go into effect. As for subsidies, as soon as the automobile came on the scene the government began spending tremendous amounts of money on infrastructure that wasn't needed for horses. Edited October 5, 2021 by Jay McKinsey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,490 October 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Ecocharger said: They have the ability to make it happen, Jay, aided and abetted by the Green revolution. Make what happen? Force us to use oil in our EV's? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nsdp + 449 eh October 5, 2021 (edited) 40 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: The report says differently, that about half of NG pipelines rely on electricity for compression. If you believe differently, give us a link to support your views. Those affected motors are in the gas processing plant which can be by passed by turning valves in the correct order, not mainline compressors. Main line compression stations have at least loop tap transmission service if electric(NESC CA-2) . If it happened on mainline compression it would have been noted by NERC in the preliminary outage report that lists transmission outages by line and time and the motor would be at least 2000hp .,TRansco Station 30 was not affected My response was posted Sept. 25th before the rinky dink ass covering report came out of Austin. If the stations were mainline stations the officers of the companies would have been and still may be subject to criminal prosecution. "ncluded within this act are new mandates for PHMSA require operators to update, as needed, their existing distribution integrity management plans, emergency response plans, and O&M plans. The Act also requires operators to manage records and update, as necessary their existing district regulator stations to eliminate a common mode of failure. PHMSA will also require that leak detection and repair programs consider the environment, the use of advance lead detection practices and technologies, and for operators to be able to locate and categorize all leaks that are hazardous to human safety,"PIPES Act of 2020 Leavenworth here they come. Edited October 5, 2021 by nsdp Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nsdp + 449 eh October 5, 2021 29 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: The report says differently, that about half of NG pipelines rely on electricity for compression. If you believe differently, give us a link to support your views. Whose report. The only one that matters is the one NERC issued the 24th of Sept. Teh one I think you are talking about can be used to convict the parties reesponsible for criminal violtions . Pipeline SMS: Focus on Culture, then Technology https://www.enersyscorp.com/pipeline-sms-safety-culture/ Read and weep. Just in time for 1/1/2021 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL October 5, 2021 (edited) 30 minutes ago, nsdp said: Those affected motors are in the gas processing plant which can be by passed by turning valves in the correct order, not mainline compressors. Main line compression stations have at least loop tap transmission service if electric(NESC CA-2) . If it happened on mainline compression it would have been noted by NERC in the preliminary outage report that lists transmission outages by line and time and the motor would be at least 2000hp .,TRansco Station 30 was not affected My response was posted Sept. 25th before the rinky dink ass covering report came out of Austin. If the stations were mainline stations the officers of the companies would have been and still may be subject to criminal prosecution. "ncluded within this act are new mandates for PHMSA require operators to update, as needed, their existing distribution integrity management plans, emergency response plans, and O&M plans. The Act also requires operators to manage records and update, as necessary their existing district regulator stations to eliminate a common mode of failure. PHMSA will also require that leak detection and repair programs consider the environment, the use of advance lead detection practices and technologies, and for operators to be able to locate and categorize all leaks that are hazardous to human safety,"PIPES Act of 2020 Leavenworth here they come. The "emergency response" referred to here probably has nothing to do with the unexpected failure of the renewable electric energy sector due to weather, which precipitated this catastrophe, so that is not likely to be relevant here. The people running the system were not even informed about the possibility of exemptions for the NG pipeline infrastructure, that testimony is clear. Here was the problem in a nutshell, " the biggest failure during the disaster was cutting power to gas pipelines, many of which are not listed as essential services," Edited October 5, 2021 by Ecocharger 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,490 October 5, 2021 This is amazing, Volkswagen called a crisis meeting because they can't keep up with Tesla production! According to BI sources Herbert Diess and Brand CEO Ralf Brandstätter called a crisis meeting with all 120 top managers at the company, on Thursday, 8/30/2021. Diess stated the following: Compared to Tesla and Chinese manufacturers VW is too expensive, slow, unproductive, and not competitive. We need to take up the "fight against Grünheide" (Tesla Berlin) If everything remains as it is, VW will no longer be competitive. We have a great responsibility for this site. We have to embrace the new competition. It is urgently necessary that a new course is set in Wolfsburg. Future competition with Tesla's new Giga factory will be brutal. The electric car pioneer sets new standards in car production. A Model 3 is built in 10 hours, more than 3 times as fast as a VW ID.3 in Zwickau. This puts Tesla in another dimension in terms of productivity and profitability. We need a will to live and a jolt at the site. https://www.torquenews.com/14335/elon-musk-manufacturing-will-be-teslas-long-term-competitive-strength Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL October 5, 2021 4 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said: This is amazing, Volkswagen called a crisis meeting because they can't keep up with Tesla production! According to BI sources Herbert Diess and Brand CEO Ralf Brandstätter called a crisis meeting with all 120 top managers at the company, on Thursday, 8/30/2021. Diess stated the following: Compared to Tesla and Chinese manufacturers VW is too expensive, slow, unproductive, and not competitive. We need to take up the "fight against Grünheide" (Tesla Berlin) If everything remains as it is, VW will no longer be competitive. We have a great responsibility for this site. We have to embrace the new competition. It is urgently necessary that a new course is set in Wolfsburg. Future competition with Tesla's new Giga factory will be brutal. The electric car pioneer sets new standards in car production. A Model 3 is built in 10 hours, more than 3 times as fast as a VW ID.3 in Zwickau. This puts Tesla in another dimension in terms of productivity and profitability. We need a will to live and a jolt at the site. https://www.torquenews.com/14335/elon-musk-manufacturing-will-be-teslas-long-term-competitive-strength Not a problem Jay, the governments of Europe are great levellers and are taking a new tack to level the playing field....huge punitive taxes on EVs. https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Norways-Planned-Luxury-EV-Tax-Could-Slow-Sales-Of-High-End-Models.html "...a 25-percent value added tax (VAT), because subsidies cannot be handed out forever and because the state needs those revenues. So, under the proposal, EVs that cost more than $69,420 (600,000 Norwegian crowns) could become subject of that tax. This, analysts and EV associations say, would hit the Tesla S and X models, as well as those of Porsche, Audi, and Mercedes-Benz. An easing of the government subsidies could slow sales and Norway’s target of phasing out sales of gasoline and diesel cars in 2025. If Norway’s next government adopts the tax on luxury EVs, it could set a trend worldwide, Sebastian Toma of autoevolution notes. " Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nsdp + 449 eh October 5, 2021 1 minute ago, Ecocharger said: The "emergency response" referred to here probably has nothing to do with the unexpected failure of the renewable electric energy sector due to weather, which precipitated this catastrophe, so that is not likely to be relevant here. Ask the Texas Eastern Execs when a line in KY exploded last year. They are learning how to play don't drop the soap. Texas Eastern Gas Pipeline Explodes in Kentucky https://pgjonline.com/news/2020/05-may/texas-eastern-gas-pipeline-explodes-in-kentucky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL October 5, 2021 1 minute ago, nsdp said: Ask the Texas Eastern Execs when a line in KY exploded last year. They are learning how to play don't drop the soap. Texas Eastern Gas Pipeline Explodes in Kentucky https://pgjonline.com/news/2020/05-may/texas-eastern-gas-pipeline-explodes-in-kentucky That proves my point, nothing to do with the weather-related failure of renewable energy in Texas. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL October 5, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said: This is amazing, Volkswagen called a crisis meeting because they can't keep up with Tesla production! According to BI sources Herbert Diess and Brand CEO Ralf Brandstätter called a crisis meeting with all 120 top managers at the company, on Thursday, 8/30/2021. Diess stated the following: Compared to Tesla and Chinese manufacturers VW is too expensive, slow, unproductive, and not competitive. We need to take up the "fight against Grünheide" (Tesla Berlin) If everything remains as it is, VW will no longer be competitive. We have a great responsibility for this site. We have to embrace the new competition. It is urgently necessary that a new course is set in Wolfsburg. Future competition with Tesla's new Giga factory will be brutal. The electric car pioneer sets new standards in car production. A Model 3 is built in 10 hours, more than 3 times as fast as a VW ID.3 in Zwickau. This puts Tesla in another dimension in terms of productivity and profitability. We need a will to live and a jolt at the site. https://www.torquenews.com/14335/elon-musk-manufacturing-will-be-teslas-long-term-competitive-strength Here is the shape of the future for EV users, calamitous taxes to punish the rich who can afford to drive an EV. https://www.autoevolution.com/news/norway-s-proposed-luxury-tax-for-evs-might-bring-a-worldwide-trend-170794.html " Tesla is leading with its Model Y, but the situation could be different if the next government will impose a luxury tax on EVs. The latter has already been discussed, and it may bring an end to the popularity of some of the most expensive EVs offered in the country." Edited October 5, 2021 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,490 October 5, 2021 Just now, Ecocharger said: Not a problem Jay, the governments of Europe are great levellers and are taking a new tack to level the playing field....huge punitive taxes on EVs. https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Norways-Planned-Luxury-EV-Tax-Could-Slow-Sales-Of-High-End-Models.html "...a 25-percent value added tax (VAT), because subsidies cannot be handed out forever and because the state needs those revenues. So, under the proposal, EVs that cost more than $69,420 (600,000 Norwegian crowns) could become subject of that tax. This, analysts and EV associations say, would hit the Tesla S and X models, as well as those of Porsche, Audi, and Mercedes-Benz. An easing of the government subsidies could slow sales and Norway’s target of phasing out sales of gasoline and diesel cars in 2025. If Norway’s next government adopts the tax on luxury EVs, it could set a trend worldwide, Sebastian Toma of autoevolution notes. " So much for your EV subsidies complaint. Not a problem because EV's are at price parity with ICE at the top end and very soon at the bottom end of the market. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nsdp + 449 eh October 5, 2021 Just now, Ecocharger said: That proves my point, nothing to do with the weather-related failure of renewable energy in Texas. Can't read or research can you. Any loss of service is an emergency unless previously scheduled. You didn't read everything. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL October 5, 2021 Just now, nsdp said: Can't read or research can you. Any loss of service is an emergency unless previously scheduled. You didn't read everything. No one has suggested that your reference is related to the Texas disaster, show us where that came up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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