Toyota wants to eliminate most of its vehicle sales by 2030

[dittrick63 + 1]

Toyota is following in the footsteps of other foolish automakers in the past by insisting on building the cars most convenient for them and not what customers want. While trying to explain what the CEO was thinking some commented that if you put your desires out in the universe the universe will reward you. Other more intelligent commenters dismissed this nonesense and insisted the customer is always right. One wonders what sort of lobbing efforts Toyota is pursuing to bail them out of this fiasco at the expense of tax payers. Some were heard to chant "to dumb to bail(out)"

[surrept33 + 609]

They are just betting the S-curve is about to start in EV adoption. 

Toyota was one of the stragglers because they had so many mild hybrid cars. 

It kind of makes sense to me, the more EV cars there is, the better the economies of scale and charging infrastructure. It may flip that the ICE car becomes significantly more expensive to own/buy.

 

[turbguy + 1,544]

You can have a Toyota in any color you want...

 

 

...as long as it's BLACK.

40 minutes ago, surrept33 said:

They are just betting the S-curve is about to start in EV adoption. 

Toyota was one of the stragglers because they had so many mild hybrid cars. 

It kind of makes sense to me, the more EV cars there is, the better the economies of scale and charging infrastructure. It may flip that the ICE car becomes significantly more expensive to own/buy.

 

Amazing (if I'm judging colors correctly), that RADIO survived the Great Depression (perhaps as a source of electric heat?).

So did the "Fridge"!

Both still popular to this very day!

Edited May 13, 2021 by turbguy

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

18 hours ago, turbguy said:

You can have a Toyota in any color you want...

 

 

...as long as it's BLACK.

Amazing (if I'm judging colors correctly), that RADIO survived the Great Depression (perhaps as a source of electric heat?).

So did the "Fridge"!

Both still popular to this very day!

They survived but not with the same technology. The "cars" category will also survive, just utilizing different technology.

[NickW + 2,714]

On 5/13/2021 at 6:02 AM, surrept33 said:

They are just betting the S-curve is about to start in EV adoption. 

Toyota was one of the stragglers because they had so many mild hybrid cars. 

It kind of makes sense to me, the more EV cars there is, the better the economies of scale and charging infrastructure. It may flip that the ICE car becomes significantly more expensive to own/buy.

 

I still think their PHEV is one of the best compromises. Surprised they haven't rolled out the battery & engine combo to more models. The 9kwh battery covers most short journeys with the engine range to deal with longer stuff. You can pick up nearly new models for £20-£25K

My wife getting promoted next year. job involves some travel (from London to Scotland  /Wales / North) and she is talking about getting a TESLA. That will be interesting. 

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

1 hour ago, NickW said:

I still think their PHEV is one of the best compromises. Surprised they haven't rolled out the battery & engine combo to more models. The 9kwh battery covers most short journeys with the engine range to deal with longer stuff. You can pick up nearly new models for £20-£25K

My wife getting promoted next year. job involves some travel (from London to Scotland  /Wales / North) and she is talking about getting a TESLA. That will be interesting. 

I don't think Toyota wants to sell PHEV.  RAV4 Prime (their only PHEV?) has huge demand but they are only making a handful of them. It gets people down to the lot looking for one and they drive away in a standard hybrid version.

[NickW + 2,714]

2 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

I don't think Toyota wants to sell PHEV.  RAV4 Prime (their only PHEV?) has huge demand but they are only making a handful of them. It gets people down to the lot looking for one and they drive away in a standard hybrid version.

The prius has a PHEV version. Its got a 8.8 kwh battery with a 34 mile range. I wish they would put the PHEV in the Corolla estate which is a functional family car. For us that would cut our petrol consumption by 60-70% but give us the range we need regularly. 

Edited May 19, 2021 by NickW

[Eric Gagen + 713]

On 5/12/2021 at 11:39 PM, dittrick63 said:

Toyota is following in the footsteps of other foolish automakers in the past by insisting on building the cars most convenient for them and not what customers want. While trying to explain what the CEO was thinking some commented that if you put your desires out in the universe the universe will reward you. Other more intelligent commenters dismissed this nonesense and insisted the customer is always right. One wonders what sort of lobbing efforts Toyota is pursuing to bail them out of this fiasco at the expense of tax payers. Some were heard to chant "to dumb to bail(out)"

From a governmental and lawmaking perspective, I expect the contrary.  They are looking at the number of governments which are mandating reductions in ICE vehicle sales, and have bet/decided that they should prepare now so that competition will need subsidies to transition later.  If they position themselves correctly, Toyota and some other 'early adopters' of battery electric vehicles will lobby to have their competitors banned or legislated out of existence.  

[Eric Gagen + 713]

On 5/19/2021 at 3:13 AM, NickW said:

I still think their PHEV is one of the best compromises. Surprised they haven't rolled out the battery & engine combo to more models. The 9kwh battery covers most short journeys with the engine range to deal with longer stuff. You can pick up nearly new models for £20-£25K

My wife getting promoted next year. job involves some travel (from London to Scotland  /Wales / North) and she is talking about getting a TESLA. That will be interesting. 

Short answer:  It's too complicated.  It was a transitional developmental step while carmakers were figuring out how to do battery electrics, and a necessary one given the uncertainties of performance and high costs of batteries at the time.  Now it's just a clunky legacy product that has too many moving parts, and to much assembly to be as profitable and reliable as a battery electric vehicle.  Toyota sold millions of prius' over the years.  If they thought that extending that technology in other directions was worthwhile it would be easy for them to do it. 

[-trance + 114]

16 minutes ago, Eric Gagen said:

If they position themselves correctly, Toyota and some other 'early adopters' of battery electric vehicles will lobby to have their competitors banned or legislated out of existence.  

California controls a lot of money and has driven a lot of regulation.  Get something banned in California and manufacturers quickly adapt to that standard and usually apply it to all their products - even ones sold elsewhere.

"This product contains chemicals known to the State of California to cause..."

 

Edited June 4, 2021 by -trance

[NickW + 2,714]

45 minutes ago, Eric Gagen said:

Short answer:  It's too complicated.  It was a transitional developmental step while carmakers were figuring out how to do battery electrics, and a necessary one given the uncertainties of performance and high costs of batteries at the time.  Now it's just a clunky legacy product that has too many moving parts, and to much assembly to be as profitable and reliable as a battery electric vehicle.  Toyota sold millions of prius' over the years.  If they thought that extending that technology in other directions was worthwhile it would be easy for them to do it. 

Yes - I suspect so. 

I can see my wife borrowing my Corolla Hybrid for long distance business trips in the scenario presented. Still that would leave me with the Tesla to drive ponce around in😁

[NickW + 2,714]

50 minutes ago, Eric Gagen said:

Short answer:  It's too complicated.  It was a transitional developmental step while carmakers were figuring out how to do battery electrics, and a necessary one given the uncertainties of performance and high costs of batteries at the time.  Now it's just a clunky legacy product that has too many moving parts, and to much assembly to be as profitable and reliable as a battery electric vehicle.  Toyota sold millions of prius' over the years.  If they thought that extending that technology in other directions was worthwhile it would be easy for them to do it. 

In the Uk you can pick up the 3rd generation PHEV prius for £10-£11K. Its got a 4.4kwh battery. As a second car that would make a nice runabout for us which would do the majority of journeys in EV mode. TBH I'd probably try and stretch to the 8.8kwh version . With my wifes driving any car we buy ends up with bumpers in a year or two that look like a blind cobblers thumb so we run cars into the ground as they have no resale value. 

[Eric Gagen + 713]

1 hour ago, NickW said:

In the Uk you can pick up the 3rd generation PHEV prius for £10-£11K. Its got a 4.4kwh battery. As a second car that would make a nice runabout for us which would do the majority of journeys in EV mode. TBH I'd probably try and stretch to the 8.8kwh version . With my wifes driving any car we buy ends up with bumpers in a year or two that look like a blind cobblers thumb so we run cars into the ground as they have no resale value. 

Sure - they are fine cars - they just won't make any more of them.  If you get one at a decent price, drive it and enjoy it.  

[NickW + 2,714]

14 hours ago, Eric Gagen said:

Sure - they are fine cars - they just won't make any more of them.  If you get one at a decent price, drive it and enjoy it.  

If my wife gets this promotion we will end up with a US made Tesla  and Uk made Corolla Estate Hybrid. A good combination and sourced from my preference countries for purchasing. 

[Sebastian Meana + 278]

On 5/13/2021 at 9:19 PM, Jay McKinsey said:

They survived but not with the same technology. The "cars" category will also survive, just utilizing different technology.

I doubt it, cars just dont make sense as a form of transport, they are expensive and inefficient no matter what they run on,  mass transit is better at moving people for the cheap, the main reason why cars are still being used is because roads are built on tax money while rail track construction is charged on train tickets, nevermind that conventional rail tracks for 200KMh cost less than half what a roadways and highways cost per km

is like watches, it didnt matter that quartz and digital watcher were better than mechanical ones, mechanical ones survived because they are cooler and desirable, equally a V8 or V12 rocket is more interesing than a literal electric appliance with wheels

Edited August 24, 2021 by Sebastian Meana

[NickW + 2,714]

On 6/4/2021 at 11:34 PM, Eric Gagen said:

Sure - they are fine cars - they just won't make any more of them.  If you get one at a decent price, drive it and enjoy it.  

You say that but numerous manufacturers are currently building PHEV's

Jaguar Land Rover, Mercedes, BMW, Hyundai, NIssan to name but a few. 

[Eric Gagen + 713]

14 minutes ago, NickW said:

You say that but numerous manufacturers are currently building PHEV's

Jaguar Land Rover, Mercedes, BMW, Hyundai, NIssan to name but a few. 

They aren't Toyota's - with the possible exception of Hyundai I wouldn't call any of these makes 'reliable' 

[Eric Gagen + 713]

7 hours ago, Sebastian Meana said:

I doubt it, cars just dont make sense as a form of transport, they are expensive and inefficient no matter what they run on,  mass transit is better at moving people for the cheap, the main reason why cars are still being used is because roads are built on tax money while rail track construction is charged on train tickets, nevermind that conventional rail tracks for 200KMh cost less than half what a roadways and highways cost per km

is like watches, it didnt matter that quartz and digital watcher were better than mechanical ones, mechanical ones survived because they are cooler and desirable, equally a V8 or V12 rocket is more interesing than a literal electric appliance with wheels

You must live somewhere with a high population density.  Outside of a few corners of Europe, India and East Asia, most of the world doesn't have enough people living close enough to one another for mass transit of any sort to make any sense from an energy usage or financial perspective. 

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

25 minutes ago, Eric Gagen said:

You must live somewhere with a high population density.  Outside of a few corners of Europe, India and East Asia, most of the world doesn't have enough people living close enough to one another for mass transit of any sort to make any sense from an energy usage or financial perspective. 

The other thing to consider is people (and families) like their own space. You can stop when you want for a coffee or a comfort break, or just to stretch your legs.

[NickW + 2,714]

31 minutes ago, Eric Gagen said:

They aren't Toyota's - with the possible exception of Hyundai I wouldn't call any of these makes 'reliable' 

From what I gather most of the reliability issues with NISSANs are niggly thinks rather than mechanical stuff that stops the car going from A to B. 

We had a new Qahqai in Oz and only issue was a window out of alignment that needed adjusting. 

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

31 minutes ago, Eric Gagen said:

They aren't Toyota's - with the possible exception of Hyundai I wouldn't call any of these makes 'reliable' 

According to this the BMW i3 comes in 8th best ( I know its all electric)

The Prius is voted the second worst for reliability, scroll down and click the link for the 3 worst, the worst is the Tesla model S.

https://www.whatcar.com/news/most-and-least-reliable-electric-and-hybrid-cars/n17069

[Eric Gagen + 713]

1 hour ago, Rob Plant said:

The other thing to consider is people (and families) like their own space. You can stop when you want for a coffee or a comfort break, or just to stretch your legs.

Those aren't major issues in high density areas, because most trips are very short.  You don't travel for a long enough time for those things to become an issue.  

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

12 hours ago, Sebastian Meana said:

I doubt it, cars just dont make sense as a form of transport, they are expensive and inefficient no matter what they run on,  mass transit is better at moving people for the cheap, the main reason why cars are still being used is because roads are built on tax money while rail track construction is charged on train tickets, nevermind that conventional rail tracks for 200KMh cost less than half what a roadways and highways cost per km

is like watches, it didnt matter that quartz and digital watcher were better than mechanical ones, mechanical ones survived because they are cooler and desirable, equally a V8 or V12 rocket is more interesing than a literal electric appliance with wheels

V8 or V12 "rocket"???  You do realize those things are door stops compared to the electric appliances?

"One more reason why Dodge needs to go electric.

Dodge literally shocked the automotive industry in July by announcing its plans to launch an all-electric muscle car in 2024. Little is known about that model so far, but from the first official teaser, it seems that it will use an all-wheel-drive electric drivetrain. After watching the video at the top of this page, we are now confident that’s exactly what Dodge needs right now to retain its position on the drag racing scene.

 

The video courtesy of the DragTimes channel on YouTube shows us a Dodge Demon going against a Tesla Model S Plaid in a direct drag race. After a quick introduction, the clip takes us to the drag strip where the two contenders line up for a series of three races. We hate to spoil the results in these drag races but this time there’s basically zero competition between the two.

In the first run, the Tesla makes a very bad launch but manages to catch the combustion-powered muscle car right before the end of the race. In the next two runs, the Model S Plaid takes even more comfortable wins and, as one of the commenters under the video puts it, “you know you are wrecked when you can see the other guy’s time when you are still accelerating.”

The Demon may be built especially for the drag strip but even on paper, the Tesla is the obvious winner here. With more than 1,000 horsepower (746 kilowatts) and instant torque delivery, it has a clear advantage over the Demon with its supercharged V8 engine mated to an eight-speed automatic. 

https://www.motor1.com/news/528292/dodge-demon-tesla-plaid-drag/

[Sebastian Meana + 278]

36 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

V8 or V12 "rocket"???  You do realize those things are door stops compared to the electric appliances?

"One more reason why Dodge needs to go electric.

Dodge literally shocked the automotive industry in July by announcing its plans to launch an all-electric muscle car in 2024. Little is known about that model so far, but from the first official teaser, it seems that it will use an all-wheel-drive electric drivetrain. After watching the video at the top of this page, we are now confident that’s exactly what Dodge needs right now to retain its position on the drag racing scene.

 

The video courtesy of the DragTimes channel on YouTube shows us a Dodge Demon going against a Tesla Model S Plaid in a direct drag race. After a quick introduction, the clip takes us to the drag strip where the two contenders line up for a series of three races. We hate to spoil the results in these drag races but this time there’s basically zero competition between the two.

In the first run, the Tesla makes a very bad launch but manages to catch the combustion-powered muscle car right before the end of the race. In the next two runs, the Model S Plaid takes even more comfortable wins and, as one of the commenters under the video puts it, “you know you are wrecked when you can see the other guy’s time when you are still accelerating.”

The Demon may be built especially for the drag strip but even on paper, the Tesla is the obvious winner here. With more than 1,000 horsepower (746 kilowatts) and instant torque delivery, it has a clear advantage over the Demon with its supercharged V8 engine mated to an eight-speed automatic. 

https://www.motor1.com/news/528292/dodge-demon-tesla-plaid-drag/

You should check cleetus mcfarland channel or just see some spicy dragsters, a redneck with a load of money toke a corvette and makes it go substantially faster than a Plaid or a Rimac nevera or any EV that has come out or will come out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1s2IicQ2ZAs

that Camaro made by some guys in poland makes the quarter mile faster than the 2000HP rimac with for 500 horsepower less, and much less money, what's more the fastest electric dragster does the quarter mile in 7.5 seconds, for 5000 horsepower, with that power a Top alcohol dragster can do twice

and that's with Four-Stroke engines, Two-stroke engines will for the same displacement weight and reliability produce twice the power of a Four Stroke engine, simply because you have twice the explosion per revolution of engine.

Electric cars are like quartz watches sure technically they are superior and better than mechanical watches, ¿but so what? people stoped buying watches all together when cellphones arrived you could look the hour in the phone and didnt need to buy a watch, watch are still being sold, but as a luxury item not as something neccessary

But as it turns out mechanical watches are still being sold cause they are pretty, and prettier than quartz watches, with an giant gaz guzzler you just have all the noise and is just nice to move yourself in a cloud of noise and annoying people, if you want to move efficiently ,quickly, and with little noise, you take the train or the bus.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

9 minutes ago, Sebastian Meana said:

You should check cleetus mcfarland channel or just see some spicy dragsters, a redneck with a load of money toke a corvette and makes it go substantially faster than a Plaid or a Rimac nevera or any EV that has come out or will come out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1s2IicQ2ZAs

that Camaro made by some guys in poland makes the quarter mile faster than the 2000HP rimac with for 500 horsepower less, and much less money, what's more the fastest electric dragster does the quarter mile in 7.5 seconds, for 5000 horsepower, with that power a Top alcohol dragster can do twice

and that's with Four-Stroke engines, Two-stroke engines will for the same displacement weight and reliability produce twice the power of a Four Stroke engine, simply because you have twice the explosion per revolution of engine.

Electric cars are like quartz watches sure technically they are superior and better than mechanical watches, ¿but so what? people stoped buying watches all together when cellphones arrived you could look the hour in the phone and didnt need to buy a watch, watch are still being sold, but as a luxury item not as something neccessary

But as it turns out mechanical watches are still being sold cause they are pretty, and prettier than quartz watches, with an giant gaz guzzler you just have all the noise and is just nice to move yourself in a cloud of noise and annoying people, if you want to move efficiently ,quickly, and with little noise, you take the train or the bus.

The EVs are street legal with the Plaid being a 4 door family sedan suitable for everyday driving and long trips. Who cares about ugly piles of junk that are only useful on a drag strip? Much more exciting is being able to accelerate like mad every time you get on the freeway or effortless passing. EVs are the smart phones that are about to take over the world.