Eyes Wide Open + 3,554 July 12, 2021 (edited) Telsa a US company...indeed. The only visual I can come with wouldld be.... MOOCH MOTORS INC.... POWER IN THE HANDS OF A FEW! Edited July 12, 2021 by Eyes Wide Open Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,490 July 12, 2021 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said: Telsa a US company...indeed. The only visual I can come with wouldld be.... MOOCH MOTORS INC.... POWER IN THE HANDS OF A FEW! They aren't just a US company. The cars they make and sell in the US are more American Made than anyone else. I thought you were a Real American Patriot®? Just keep driving your foreign made car. Oh and unlike the oil companies, they don't get any federal tax subsidies. To top it off, over half of the states don't even allow them to sell their cars. Edited July 12, 2021 by Jay McKinsey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eyes Wide Open + 3,554 July 13, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jay McKinsey said: They aren't just a US company. The cars they make and sell in the US are more American Made than anyone else. I thought you were a Real American Patriot®? Just keep driving your foreign made car. Oh and unlike the oil companies, they don't get any federal tax subsidies. To top it off, over half of the states don't even allow them to sell their cars. Tesla’s dirty little secret: Its net profit doesn’t come from selling cars It’s a lucrative business for Tesla — bringing in $3.3 billion over the course of the last five years, nearly half of that in 2020 alone. The $1.6 billion in regulatory credits it received last year far outweighed Tesla’s net income of $721 million — meaning Tesla would have otherwise posted a net loss in 2020. Mouch Motor's and its Customer's.....I win you lose.... https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/02/01/teslas-dirty-little-secret-its-net-profit-doesnt-come-from-selling-cars/ Edited July 13, 2021 by Eyes Wide Open Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,490 July 13, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said: Tesla’s dirty little secret: Its net profit doesn’t come from selling cars It’s a lucrative business for Tesla — bringing in $3.3 billion over the course of the last five years, nearly half of that in 2020 alone. The $1.6 billion in regulatory credits it received last year far outweighed Tesla’s net income of $721 million — meaning Tesla would have otherwise posted a net loss in 2020. Mouch Motor's and its Customer's.....I win you lose.... https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/02/01/teslas-dirty-little-secret-its-net-profit-doesnt-come-from-selling-cars/ Tariff on those foreign imports that you drive to support American Made cars. Edited July 13, 2021 by Jay McKinsey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eyes Wide Open + 3,554 July 13, 2021 5 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said: Tariff on those foreign imports that you drive to support American Made cars. https://www.wardsauto.com/ideaxchange/case-higher-us-auto-tariffs The Case for Higher U.S. Auto Tariffs No other major auto manufacturing country has such generously low import tariffs on passenger cars as the United States. The EU imposes tariffs that are four times higher. China’s tariffs are ten times higher. Brazil’s are fourteen times higher. Japan no longer imposes import tariffs on cars but has figured out other ways to limit imports to about 6% of its home market. Tesla/Moochie Motors Inc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,490 July 13, 2021 12 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said: https://www.wardsauto.com/ideaxchange/case-higher-us-auto-tariffs The Case for Higher U.S. Auto Tariffs No other major auto manufacturing country has such generously low import tariffs on passenger cars as the United States. The EU imposes tariffs that are four times higher. China’s tariffs are ten times higher. Brazil’s are fourteen times higher. Japan no longer imposes import tariffs on cars but has figured out other ways to limit imports to about 6% of its home market. Tesla/Moochie Motors Inc. Compared to a Tesla, every GM, Chrysler and Ford, except the Mustang is a foreign car. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pikabo2502 0 Fe July 14, 2021 To make determination of sun controlled energy a reality at the grass-root level, we have perceived that customer care, moderateness and receptiveness expect a vital work. With our creative stage, SunPro+, our wide channel-associate association and our viable help we ensure that these three components are directed to guarantee your undertaking into daylight based energy is sans trouble. for more info visit here: https://freyrenergy.com/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stickman428 0 Bs July 14, 2021 Ford Ranger is the most American made vehicle follow by Jeep the regretla is 3rd a rank that is very suspect. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paul-S + 8 PS July 17, 2021 On 7/5/2021 at 5:02 PM, RichieRich216 said: Yep, That BRAND NEW PLAID caught fire and driver bales as car is moving! Took Fire Department 4 Hour’s of continuous water to cool the battery pack….. I'll bet you didn't know that 171,500 fossil vehicles catch fire every year in the U.S. That's around 20 vehicles every hour of every day of the year. Ask for help with your math. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paul-S + 8 PS July 17, 2021 On 6/25/2021 at 9:02 PM, Jay McKinsey said: All you real American Patriots be on notice, Tesla is the most American made car: Cars.com’s American-Made Index ranks all qualifying vehicles built and bought in the U.S., the 2021 study ranks 90 vehicles through the same five major criteria: assembly location, parts content, engine origins, transmission origins and U.S. manufacturing workforce. The Top 20 Model: Assembly location for cars sold in the U.S. (rank in the 2020 American-Made Index) 1. Tesla Model 3: Fremont, Calif. (4) | Research | Shop2. Ford Mustang: Flat Rock, Mich. (34) | Research | Shop3. Tesla Model Y: Fremont, Calif. (unranked) | Research | Shop4. Jeep Cherokee: Belvidere, Ill. (2) | Research | Shop5. Chevrolet Corvette: Bowling Green, Ky. (8) | Research | Shop6. Honda Ridgeline: Lincoln, Ala. (6) | Research | Shop7. Honda Odyssey: Lincoln, Ala. (5) | Research | Shop8. Honda Pilot: Lincoln, Ala. (13) | Research | Shop9. Honda Passport: Lincoln, Ala. (7) | Research | Shop10. Toyota Tundra: San Antonio (16) | Research | Shop11. Ford Expedition, Expedition Max: Louisville, Ky. (20) | Research | Shop12. Acura RDX: East Liberty, Ohio (14) | Research | Shop13. Acura TLX: Marysville, Ohio (25) | Research | Shop14. Chevrolet Colorado: Wentzville, Mo. (10) | Research | Shop15. GMC Canyon: Wentzville, Mo. (11) | Research | Shop16. Jeep Grand Cherokee: Detroit (26) | Research | Shop17. Honda Accord: Marysville, Ohio (15) | Research | Shop18. Toyota Avalon: Georgetown, Ky. (29) | Research | Shop19. Lexus ES: Georgetown, Ky.* (28) | Research | Shop20. Lincoln Navigator, Navigator L: Louisville, Ky. (54) | Research | Shop Time to stop buying foreign made cars like the F150 and Silverado. https://www.cars.com/articles/2021-cars-com-american-made-index-which-cars-are-the-most-american-437020/ Just wait until all those Chinese manufacturers start building U.S. factories. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eyes Wide Open + 3,554 July 18, 2021 On 7/16/2021 at 5:23 PM, Paul-S said: Just wait until all those Chinese manufacturers start building U.S. factories. As in GM inc? Odd how they took US tax payer bailout money and built factories in China with the funds. Like a ROCK... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eyes Wide Open + 3,554 July 18, 2021 On 7/12/2021 at 3:49 PM, Jay McKinsey said: They aren't just a US company. The cars they make and sell in the US are more American Made than anyone else. I thought you were a Real American Patriot®? Just keep driving your foreign made car. Oh and unlike the oil companies, they don't get any federal tax subsidies. To top it off, over half of the states don't even allow them to sell their cars. Tax subsidies you say? Who needs that? In the five years since GM's bankruptcy it made $22.6 billion. But taxpayers lost $10.6 billion on bailout that saved the company. GM made $22.6 billion. We lost $10.6 billion https://money.cnn.com/2014/05/29/news/companies/gm-profit-bailout/index.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoMack + 549 JM July 26, 2021 On 7/5/2021 at 6:11 PM, Jay McKinsey said: Owner is a TSLAQ and crypto investor at a hedge fund. This story is far from finished. It wasn't 4 hours: “Engine 24 with a crew of 7 arrived on scene simultaneously with Engine 25. Due to prior training classes on Tesla Vehicle Fire emergencies, Engine 24 laid a 5 inch supply line into the scene so that we could keep a continual water stream on the fire to extinguish the fire and cool the batteries down to ensure complete extinguishment. Engine 24 and Engine 25 both deployed hand lines to extinguish the fire, each maintained a dedicated water source and continued to cool the vehicle down for almost 90 minutes. Firefighters were on scene for just over 3 hours dealing with this emergency. Nobody was hurt in the incident, and both crews worked hard in the high heat/humidity to mitigate the incident,” the Gladwyne Volunteer Fire Company wrote. Jay, just the fact that the bloody car went on fire, took 7 people to drive 2 huge fire trucks with sirens blaring ( with ICE engines BTW) , poor training, and took "only" 3 hours instead of 4 hours to put but out, as noted in prior post, just proves EVs are not ready for prime time,. The fact that you're going through the details of this disaster on a Tesla bursting into flames is very troubling. What is worse, is that it was okay, since the owner was an investor in crypto. Now Jay you really need to rethink your obsession with EVs, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,490 July 26, 2021 (edited) 20 minutes ago, JoMack said: Jay, just the fact that the bloody car went on fire, took 7 people to drive 2 huge fire trucks with sirens blaring ( with ICE engines BTW) , poor training, and took "only" 3 hours instead of 4 hours to put but out, as noted in prior post, just proves EVs are not ready for prime time,. The fact that you're going through the details of this disaster on a Tesla bursting into flames is very troubling. What is worse, is that it was okay, since the owner was an investor in crypto. Now Jay you really need to rethink your obsession with EVs, What you missed is that it is a highly suspicious fire because the owner is a Tesla bear at a hedge fund (1.1 billion hedge on TSLA)and is a major crypto trader (known as the Crypto King) when Elon had just crapped on Bitcoin and sent it plummeting. EVs catch on fire far less frequently than ICE and just as many fire personnel respond to an ICE fire. You need to get your facts straight. Oh and the fire trucks will be electric too. Edited July 26, 2021 by Jay McKinsey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190 July 26, 2021 On 7/16/2021 at 5:20 PM, Paul-S said: I'll bet you didn't know that 171,500 fossil vehicles catch fire every year in the U.S. That's around 20 vehicles every hour of every day of the year. Ask for help with your math. I'll bet you didn't know, or bother to read where that number actually comes from... It is not actual car fires. It is REPORTED, car fires.... so all those steam let offs get reported by ignorant dumbleshits due to a rear-ender and viola we have a firetruck sent. Besides, if you bothered to do a simple visual applied calculation with those absurd numbers, we should see MULTIPLE columns of smoke every hour of every day in every metro city from car fires... Oddly, I have almost NEVER seen columns of smoke rising from car fires, house fires, or any other fire in a metro city... Not to mention it should be on the nightly news EVERYday of the year. Take your Firefighters association Bull Shit and tuck it back up where the sun don't shine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eyes Wide Open + 3,554 July 26, 2021 11 minutes ago, footeab@yahoo.com said: I'll bet you didn't know, or bother to read where that number actually comes from... It is not actual car fires. It is REPORTED, car fires.... so all those steam let offs get reported by ignorant dumbleshits due to a rear-ender and viola we have a firetruck sent. Besides, if you bothered to do a simple visual applied calculation with those absurd numbers, we should see MULTIPLE columns of smoke every hour of every day in every metro city from car fires... Oddly, I have almost NEVER seen columns of smoke rising from car fires, house fires, or any other fire in a metro city... Not to mention it should be on the nightly news EVERYday of the year. Take your Firefighters association Bull Shit and tuck it back up where the sun don't shine. It would seem the point of reference is somewhat skewed. It is not Fossil fuels but EV's.... Chevy Bolt Fire Update: GM to Replace Batteries A Chevrolet spokesperson tells Kelley Blue Book, “As part of GM’s commitment to safety, experts from GM and [battery manufacturer] LG have identified the simultaneous presence of two rare manufacturing defects in the same battery cell as the root cause of battery fires in certain Chevrolet Bolt EVs.” To address the problem, “GM will replace defective battery modules in the recall population.” GM will notify owners when the replacement batteries are available. In the meantime, GM and the NHTSA are urging owners to: Set their vehicle to the 90-percent state of charge limitation either using Hilltop Reserve mode (2017 and 2018 model years) or Target Charge Level mode (2019 model year). If owners are unable to set their vehicles to the 90-percent state of charge limitation mode, or if they feel uncomfortable making the change, GM is asking owners to visit their dealer immediately to have the change made. Recharge the battery on their Bolts after each use and avoid running down the battery below an estimated remaining 70-mile range where possible. The move comes just a week after GM warned owners to park their Bolts outside due to https://www.kbb.com/car-news/chevy-bolt-fire-update-gm-to-replace-batteries/ The recent Chevy Bolt fire on May 1, 2021 occurred just days after the “final fix” for the fire issue was announced. We sat down with the owner to discuss what happened, tell the inside story, and try to find some answers… Our Bolt owner went to his garage at 7:30 on the morning of Saturday, May 1. He unplugged his Chevy Bolt, like he usually does after his infrequent charges. Preferring to charge at night for the cheaper power, he had plugged in it around 2 a.m. since it was below his usual charging threshold of 30 miles remaining. Peering into the window, he noticed it had recharged to about 160 miles of range. That was more than enough for local jaunts. Using his SUV for longer trips, those were the only times he would use the Bolt. Being in IT, he knew that lithium ion batteries didn’t like charging to full, so this was about the same as he usually charged it. https://electrek.co/2021/05/07/exclusive-the-latest-chevy-bolt-fire-reveals-troubling-pattern-that-owners-should-be-aware-of/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,490 July 26, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said: I'll bet you didn't know, or bother to read where that number actually comes from... It is not actual car fires. It is REPORTED, car fires.... so all those steam let offs get reported by ignorant dumbleshits due to a rear-ender and viola we have a firetruck sent. Besides, if you bothered to do a simple visual applied calculation with those absurd numbers, we should see MULTIPLE columns of smoke every hour of every day in every metro city from car fires... Oddly, I have almost NEVER seen columns of smoke rising from car fires, house fires, or any other fire in a metro city... Not to mention it should be on the nightly news EVERYday of the year. Take your Firefighters association Bull Shit and tuck it back up where the sun don't shine. Wrong again. You are the one who needs to read where the number comes from The fires are reported by the fire departments and only include actual fires. "This topical report addresses the characteristics of highway vehicle fires as reported to the U.S. Fire Administration’s (USFA) National Fire Incident Reporting System (NFIRS)" https://www.usfa.fema.gov/downloads/pdf/statistics/v19i2.pdf Only fire departments and government agencies can file a NFIRS report. "Over 24,000 U.S. fire departments are helping their communities reduce the risk from fires and other emergencies by reporting their incident data to NFIRS." Contact your state’s NFIRS Program Manager to find out how your department can get started with NFIRS today!" https://www.usfa.fema.gov/nfirs/ Edited July 27, 2021 by Jay McKinsey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190 July 27, 2021 5 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said: Wrong again. The fires are reported by the fire departments and only include actual fires. https://www.usfa.fema.gov/downloads/pdf/statistics/v19i2.pdf That is NOT the source of the data. They copied the data without the several CAVEATs... Where said data comes from participating fire departments in a select few counties/cities across USA and the majority is ESTIMATED at NFIRS which then gets dumped into NFPA and then copied by gullible people everywhere... https://www.nfpa.org/-/media/Files/News-and-Research/Fire-statistics-and-reports/US-Fire-Problem/osvehiclefires.pdf#:~:text=The 117%2C400 car fires (65 percent of highway,direct property damage (44 percent) annually in 2013–2017. Lets quote the fine print eh? "National estimates are projections" "fires that were reported to local fire departments but not captured in NFIRS, estimates from NFPA’s fire department experience SURVEY are divided by totals in NFIRS.".. Now fire departments don't have a vested interest in INFLATING the numbers on a SURVEY for greater funding do they? Oh no, of course not.... The whole damned supposed numbers are based on a SURVEY, not actual reporting of actual DATA... Jay, I know you are allergic to basic math, but here goes: Math. USPS has ~230,000 vehicles operated daily. They average ~30 vehicle fires a year at a much higher use rate than the average USA driver. NFPA says ~200,000 fires a year in USA with 200M daily drivers. So crudely ~ 1 Vehicle fire per 1000 Vehicles driven. According to the NFIRS/NFPA... USPS should have over 230 vehicle fires a year.... Not less than 30... Oh yea, average age of USPS vehicle? ~20 years. Average vehicle fire age? ~10yrs/15yrs. Do people take care of their own cars better or worse than rented, company, government vehicles.... Yea... treated like garbage so... yea. https://www.postaltimes.com/postal-vehicle-fires/ and https://facts.usps.com/postal-service-has-more-than-200000-vehicles/#:~:text=Vehicles. The Postal Service has more than 230%2C000,®%2C EDDM ®%2C ePostage ®%2C Every Door So, real fires, not made up baloney for greater funding, says actual number of car fires in USA is less than 20,000/yr. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,490 July 27, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, footeab@yahoo.com said: That is NOT the source of the data. They copied the data without the several CAVEATs... Where said data comes from participating fire departments in a select few counties/cities across USA and the majority is ESTIMATED at NFIRS which then gets dumped into NFPA and then copied by gullible people everywhere... https://www.nfpa.org/-/media/Files/News-and-Research/Fire-statistics-and-reports/US-Fire-Problem/osvehiclefires.pdf#:~:text=The 117%2C400 car fires (65 percent of highway,direct property damage (44 percent) annually in 2013–2017. Lets quote the fine print eh? "National estimates are projections" "fires that were reported to local fire departments but not captured in NFIRS, estimates from NFPA’s fire department experience SURVEY are divided by totals in NFIRS.".. Now fire departments don't have a vested interest in INFLATING the numbers on a SURVEY for greater funding do they? Oh no, of course not.... The whole damned supposed numbers are based on a SURVEY, not actual reporting of actual DATA... Jay, I know you are allergic to basic math, but here goes: Math. USPS has ~230,000 vehicles operated daily. They average ~30 vehicle fires a year at a much higher use rate than the average USA driver. NFPA says ~200,000 fires a year in USA with 200M daily drivers. So crudely ~ 1 Vehicle fire per 1000 Vehicles driven. According to the NFIRS/NFPA... USPS should have over 230 vehicle fires a year.... Not less than 30... Oh yea, average age of USPS vehicle? ~20 years. Average vehicle fire age? ~10yrs/15yrs. Do people take care of their own cars better or worse than rented, company, government vehicles.... Yea... treated like garbage so... yea. https://www.postaltimes.com/postal-vehicle-fires/ and https://facts.usps.com/postal-service-has-more-than-200000-vehicles/#:~:text=Vehicles. The Postal Service has more than 230%2C000,®%2C EDDM ®%2C ePostage ®%2C Every Door So, real fires, not made up baloney for greater funding, says actual number of car fires in USA is less than 20,000/yr. Wrong again. Nothing like consistency. The numbers that were posted earlier were: These numbers are from the report I cited. "Each year, from 2014 to 2016, an estimated 171,500 highway vehicle fires occurred in the United States, resulting in an annual average of 345 deaths; 1,300 injuries; and $1.1 billion in property loss.1 These highway vehicle fires accounted for 13 percent of fires responded to by fire departments across the nation.2 The term “highway vehicle fires” includes fires in passenger road vehicles (e.g., cars, motorcycles and off-road recreational vehicles), freight road transport vehicles (e.g., dump trucks, fire apparatus and tank trucks), and agricultural and construction vehicles." https://www.usfa.fema.gov/downloads/pdf/statistics/v19i2.pdf NFIRS data is directly reported by 24,000 fire departments not just a few counties. It is not a survey. It is reporting of actual data: "Fire department guidance Your state NFIRS office will set the rules on when and how you should report your incident data; however, at a minimum, the USFA recommends that fire departments submit their data to their state NFIRS program offices at monthly intervals. Departments using the USFA software or web-based application can submit their incident data as they perform the data entry process to provide real-time reporting of incident data to their state. If your department has no incidents during the month, you should submit a report of “no activity” to your state for the reporting period." As to the USPS why do you think they are telling the truth and not the fire departments? USPS is incentivized to minimize failures. Ultimately though it can also be that the LLV is just not that perceptible to fire. USPS lists "Approximately 190,000 deliver mail" Since May 2014, at least 407 LLVs have been damaged or destroyed in fires, or approximately one every five days, according to documents obtained by Motherboard via a Freedom of Information Act request. Article published July 2020. So 68 fires a year. Using NFIRs data and the acutal number of mail deliver vehicles the number of expected fires would be 160 per year. Now comes the real problem with your analysis. The LLV is not a typical car. These vehicles were built to be a lot tougher. The trials they had to win were extreme to say the least. From the Topical Fire Report that I cited: "Forty-six percent of the items first ignited in highway vehicle fires fell under the category of “general materials” (Figure 5).12 This category includes materials such as tires, insulation around electric wire and cables, trash, and fabric. Specifically, insulation around the electrical wiring or other cables was the most common item to initially ignite, not only within this category but in all highway vehicle fires (29 percent). While it is often assumed that vehicle fires commonly originate with the tires of the vehicle, tires were the item first ignited in only 6 percent of all highway vehicle fires." Well fascinatingly the LLV doesn't have much in the way of trash, fabric or electric cables compared to a car. I also suspect that those cables were much better insulated and connected in order to survive the endurance trials they were designed for. Conclusion - USPS mail vehicles suffered fires at half the rate of civilian cars but they were also built to much higher endurance standards and had none of the extra materials such as fabric, trash or numerous electrical cables that cars do. It is completely reasonable that they would have half the fires. Edited July 27, 2021 by Jay McKinsey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,490 July 31, 2021 Arizona chosen as site for 12 GWh lithium-ion battery facility More American Made batteries: Kore Power plans to bring its KOREPlex manufacturing facility to Maricopa County, Arizona, marking one of the first lithium-ion battery manufacturing facilities wholly owned by a U.S. company. https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2021/07/29/arizona-chosen-as-site-for-massive-lithium-ion-battery-manufacturing-facility/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,470 DL August 4, 2021 On 7/6/2021 at 3:25 PM, Jay McKinsey said: Tesla is the number one EV manufacturer in China. Their primary competion for that title is the $5,000 Mini EV. Costs come down as production grows and sales go up as costs go down. It is a virtuous cycle. It looks like costs are going up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,470 DL August 4, 2021 Here is the bottom line, the abysmal quality record of problems. Ouch! Tesla seems to be at the bottom of this list, wow, https://hypebeast.com/2020/6/tesla-j-d-power-least-reliable-car-us-2020-survey-news "American analytics company J.D. Power has just released its 2020 Initial Quality Report for the auto industry, and Tesla (NASDAQGS:TSLA +3.27%) has been rated the least reliable new cars in the U.S. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eyes Wide Open + 3,554 August 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: Here is the bottom line, the abysmal quality record of problems. Ouch! Tesla seems to be at the bottom of this list, wow, https://hypebeast.com/2020/6/tesla-j-d-power-least-reliable-car-us-2020-survey-news "American analytics company J.D. Power has just released its 2020 Initial Quality Report for the auto industry, and Tesla (NASDAQGS:TSLA +3.27%) has been rated the least reliable new cars in the U.S. That's hilarious,yet at the same time very concerning. One can pencil cost effectiveness all day long, poor consumer satisfaction index's can kill all his work in 6 months.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Most Active Members
Recently Online
Popular Members
Most Active Members
Recently Online
Popular Members
