United Kingdom to bring forward the end of coal era to 2024

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

14 hours ago, Eric Gagen said:

the UK cannot in any realistic way attempt to use coal as a power source - it's economy is too large and it has too little coal.  

Totally agree and that's why we don't, and haven't for many years.

I never mentioned 10 times anything??? I did say the UK's GDP was 5 times that of Poland so not exactly "in the ballpark" as you said and I posted the data to back this up.

Again I repeat we have 2 yes only 2 coal fired powered stations left in the UK that run to the bare minimum that they are allowed to safely, and these will be shut by October 2024 at the very latest.

We used a whopping (sarc) 0.46GW of coal fired power generation in the last year! That is set to diminish a lot more as Drax since March 2021 is totally biomass and is the largest power station in the UK. So the UK's coal requirement for powergen will be next to nothing this year, falling to zero by October 2024.

UK "policy makers" aka the government across all political parties are united in the demise of coal as a powergen source ASAP. We can all argue that this is short sighted or a stupid policy but it is what it is. Offshore wind is the government's idol when it comes to powergen backed up by NG stations (some of which are being converted to blue hydrogen). Fortunately for us the wind blows every day, so we are lucky there and it wouldnt be good policy for other countries. Floating offshore wind is gaining a lot of traction and pretty much all the historical oil + gas supply chain from oil majors downward have diversified into this in the UK and most of Europe. Its do that or die frankly. As a business you go where the money (investment) is and that most definitely is not oil + gas, and most definitely is wind powergen.

[NickW + 2,714]

On 7/7/2021 at 9:39 AM, Rob Plant said:

Totally agree and that's why we don't, and haven't for many years.

I never mentioned 10 times anything??? I did say the UK's GDP was 5 times that of Poland so not exactly "in the ballpark" as you said and I posted the data to back this up.

Again I repeat we have 2 yes only 2 coal fired powered stations left in the UK that run to the bare minimum that they are allowed to safely, and these will be shut by October 2024 at the very latest.

We used a whopping (sarc) 0.46GW of coal fired power generation in the last year! That is set to diminish a lot more as Drax since March 2021 is totally biomass and is the largest power station in the UK. So the UK's coal requirement for powergen will be next to nothing this year, falling to zero by October 2024.

UK "policy makers" aka the government across all political parties are united in the demise of coal as a powergen source ASAP. We can all argue that this is short sighted or a stupid policy but it is what it is. Offshore wind is the government's idol when it comes to powergen backed up by NG stations (some of which are being converted to blue hydrogen). Fortunately for us the wind blows every day, so we are lucky there and it wouldnt be good policy for other countries. Floating offshore wind is gaining a lot of traction and pretty much all the historical oil + gas supply chain from oil majors downward have diversified into this in the UK and most of Europe. Its do that or die frankly. As a business you go where the money (investment) is and that most definitely is not oil + gas, and most definitely is wind powergen.

While being very windy we still have low wind days where output is down below 1GW. 

The Uk needs to be building about 10GW of new nuclear as a reliable 24/7 baseload. Thats about 30 Rolls Royce SMR's . 

The volume of a years supply of nuclear fuel for a large nuke is about the size of a double decker bus. On the other hand gas is very difficult to store in large volumes and power supply will be dependent on the next LNG carrier turning up if we stay on the gas pathway. 

For energy security I think the Government should have permitted the building of 2 2GW super critical coal fired plant. This would have also diversified energy sources looking forward. 

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

On 7/9/2021 at 9:28 PM, NickW said:

While being very windy we still have low wind days where output is down below 1GW. 

The Uk needs to be building about 10GW of new nuclear as a reliable 24/7 baseload. Thats about 30 Rolls Royce SMR's . 

The volume of a years supply of nuclear fuel for a large nuke is about the size of a double decker bus. On the other hand gas is very difficult to store in large volumes and power supply will be dependent on the next LNG carrier turning up if we stay on the gas pathway. 

For energy security I think the Government should have permitted the building of 2 2GW super critical coal fired plant. This would have also diversified energy sources looking forward. 

Agree with the nucs totally, Hinkley is being built and Sizewell C will go ahead too, but we need more. Maybe RR SMR's will be economically viable soon and thats easily scalable if they are. I Know RR think its their future along with the subs they build for BAE, so they must think theyre economic.

No new coal fired stations will be built, that's a pipe dream I'm afraid. I think they will follow California and others with battery back up.

 

[NickW + 2,714]

13 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Agree with the nucs totally, Hinkley is being built and Sizewell C will go ahead too, but we need more. Maybe RR SMR's will be economically viable soon and thats easily scalable if they are. I Know RR think its their future along with the subs they build for BAE, so they must think theyre economic.

No new coal fired stations will be built, that's a pipe dream I'm afraid. I think they will follow California and others with battery back up.

 

With the SMR's maybe there is more opportunity to utilise the waste heat if the units are dispersed but this creates a potential security issue.

You are no doubt right on coal.

I'm not confident in where UK energy policy is going which seems to want a rapid transition to EV's and heat pumps simultaneously. Even a decent ground source heat pump will double our heating bill

We bought  a house in 2019. Since then had a program to significantly cut the bills. 

• 450mm of loft insulation
• LED's throughout
• Hot water pipes insulated
• 240L hot water cylinder
• Solar water heating
• 1.5KW of solar PV
• Diverter to send surplus PV electricity to the immersion
• New condensing boiler
• Cavity wall insulation on lower floor (upper floor is 190mm blockwork - cheapskate 1980's Wimpey build🤬)
• Dishwasher converted to hot fill to utilise solar hot water (we have too much in summer)
• Insulated behind the eaves and hollow Lintels. 

To date this has knocked £750 a year off our gas / electric bills. 

Other measures in the pipeline

2022 - upper floor wall external cladding replaced with 70mm of insulation and breather membrane 

2023/24 - windows replaced with triple glazing

2024/25 - consider putting an inset wood stove in

2025-2030 Consider putting more PV in and possibly a battery if prices fall enough to coincide with the inevitable purchase of at least 1 EV. Also buy a spare gas boiler before the new purchase ban. 

 

 

 

Edited July 12, 2021 by NickW

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

41 minutes ago, NickW said:

With the SMR's maybe there is more opportunity to utilise the waste heat if the units are dispersed but this creates a potential security issue.

You are no doubt right on coal.

I'm not confident in where UK energy policy is going which seems to want a rapid transition to EV's and heat pumps simultaneously. Even a decent ground source heat pump will double our heating bill

We bought  a house in 2019. Since then had a program to significantly cut the bills. 

• 450mm of loft insulation
• LED's throughout
• Hot water pipes insulated
• 240L hot water cylinder
• Solar water heating
• 1.5KW of solar PV
• Diverter to send surplus PV electricity to the immersion
• New condensing boiler
• Cavity wall insulation on lower floor (upper floor is 190mm blockwork - cheapskate 1980's Wimpey build🤬)
• Dishwasher converted to hot fill to utilise solar hot water (we have too much in summer)

To date this has knocked £750 a year off our gas / electric bills. 

Other measures in the pipeline

2022 - upper floor wall external cladding replaced with 70mm of insulation and breather membrane 

2023/24 - windows replaced with triple glazing

2024/25 - consider putting an inset wood stove in

2025-2030 Consider putting more PV in and possibly a battery if prices fall enough to coincide with the inevitable purchase of at least 1 EV. Also buy a spare gas boiler before the new purchase ban. 

 

 

 

Yes security is always an issue with nucs. However that doesnt stop the existing nuc stations or the new build ones happening now, so I dont see the difference. The security on our existing nuclear stations is very rigorous and yes that incurs a cost but its extremely negligible in the grand scheme of things.