Why did Russia want Crimea 2014 ? Oil ? Why now does Putin want Eastern Ukraine ?

[Boat + 1,324]

On 2/12/2022 at 9:00 AM, Eric Gagen said:

 

I also favor a free Ukraine, but that's a separate issue from the status of the Crimea. The overall political climate in other places is also a separate issue  Even all of our current and past political leadership seem to be willing and able to draw the distinction between the current crisis in the Ukraine, and the status of Crimea. 

You might note that no where in any of the negotiations about Russian 'claims' and threats with respect to the Ukraine has anyone suggested that the Crimea ought, to be returned.  It's a separate issue, and nobody wants to connect them. 

For the sake of argument lets say the citizens push back Russia. You don’t think they would want Crimea back? With the Wests help there is enough nat gas to fuel Europe for some time and cut out Russia. Win win. A very big possibility is the danger of those other Russian ex USSR states deciding to go independant of their Pro Russian governments. I know some of you boys don’t like the idea of freedom for all but it’s maybe more popular than you think. Hell you can sit around and chat like this.

[notsonice + 1,255]

4 hours ago, bobo88 said:

I agree leaders shouldn't take away their citizens freedoms, arrest them for peaceful protesting, putting them in jail and calling their opponents Nazi's.  That's why I condemn Justin Trudeau .

 .  .  .  .  .  .  .  and Putin too 

Putin is a thug. Putin is a killer. Putin needs to be stopped. But at what price ? If it's possible. 

Understand Putin has only used 1/3 of his military buildup on the Ukraine border. You think Ukraine will win when/if Putin unleashes all that military might on Ukraine. Ukraine's resistance is impressive.  But giving 78 year old grandmother's rifles and family's making molatof cocktail bombs in their basement are only going to get more people killed for nothing. 

Talk.  Negotiate. Putin doesn't want Kyiv . Give him something to save face.  Give him a few oblasts in the east (Luhansk, Donetsk), restart the water canal flow he wants for Crimea, guarantee Ukraine won't join NATO. Get creative.  Do it before Putin destroys Ukraine's  infrastructure. I think giving a little is better than 20 to 50 thousand more deaths

Putin is not going to go away quietly.  His ego couldn't bare it. 

This all would have been avoided if Biden were not president. Biden ridiculed Putin before he was sworn in à president, saying "Putin doesn't want me as President, I'm not like my predecessor , he knows I'll go toe-to-toe with him. Biden is an idiot. 

Putin was upset ever since he lost Ukraine over 30 years ago (oil, gas, agriculture, water for Crimea, deep water ports, industrial centers. naval port, etc).  But he never acted until Biden.  A weak Biden that managed a disastrous retreat from Afghanistan.  He realized a new congress will be coming in a year that might be tougher on him. Put in knew it's now or never.  This is what we have to deal with.  

Biden only shut down 80% of the banks.  Putin can still bank.

Biden will not shut down Putin energy exports. It would work, but it would put the EU into an economic depression. Russia supplies about 41% of Europe's energy. 

Biden won't implement a no-fly zone .  Russia won't honor it.  Then you have U.S  vs Russian air war. Then things really escalate.

You sound so stupid (and goolish) cheering for the "stench of death".  Grow up.  You sound like Biden. 

Don't believe everything you hear. You only hear one side. The intelligence agencies have started the talk, "Putin has gone crazy" hoping a military coup takes Putin out.  Hopefully it works.  Just don't count on it.  

Zelenskyy is trying to buy time for reinforcement. It's too late.  Cut a deal.

PS: There is a war going on in Europe. P.utin just put his military on Nuclear Preparedness and Biden goes home to Delaware to nap and prep for the State of the Nation. That's scary. 

 

Notsonice

Putin isn't the only leader to start a war over falsehoods and lies.  Ask George Bush about Iraq.  Ask Hillary about Libya.  

 Ask George Bush about Iraq...Yep and the US paid dearly for the Idiots claims. You would of thought Putin would have learn from Bush that invading a country is easy..... winning hearts and minds is near impossible.

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

On 2/26/2022 at 7:08 PM, notsonice said:

here is the latest.... I hear they are working overtime.....

STENCH OF DEATH 

Chilling pics reveal Russia’s mobile crematoriums used to ‘incinerate dead soldiers and hide true scale of Ukraine war

• Olivia Burke

• 16:23, 25 Feb 2022
• Updated: 16:52, 25 Feb 2022

CHILLING photos reveal Russia's fleet of mobile crematoriums used to "incinerate dead soldiers" amid fears they will use them to hide the true scale of the Ukraine war.

The terrifying trucks can reduce bodies to ashes on the roadside, making it even easier for Vladimir Putin to downplay the human cost of the conflict.

5

The mobile crematoriums camouflage in amongst the rest of Russia's artilleryCredit: Russian Ministry of Defence

5

It is feared Russia will use the tanks to hide the true devastation of the warCredit: Russian Ministry of Defence

Shocking footage - originally shared in 2013 - disturbingly shows a circular chamber fitted into the back of the lorry.

Soldiers can then crank up the heat to scorching temperatures, in a bid to avoid mountains of bodies piling up in public view.

Russia have deployed the grim machinery alongside their usual military equipment for a number of years, but fears have now been raised they will become an all too familiar sight in Ukraine.

They are able to camouflage in amongst the fleet of tanks and trucks, while concealing their sinister secret in plain sight.

 

Defence Minister Ben Wallace told the Daily Telegraph: "If I was a soldier and knew that my generals had so little faith in me that they followed me around the battlefield with a mobile crematorium, or I was the mother or father of a son, potentially deployed into a combat zone, and my government thought that the way to cover up losses was a mobile crematorium, I’d be deeply, deeply worried.

"It’s a very chilling side effect of how the Russians view their forces."

This is very, very old news. Much cleaner solution that chopping stuff into unrecognizable bits and burying it as anonymous "medical waste" like the Ukrainian regime does. Have you got any for the scum you call your military? They could use some, me thinks.

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

13 hours ago, notsonice said:

 Ask George Bush about Iraq...Yep and the US paid dearly for the Idiots claims. You would of thought Putin would have learn from Bush that invading a country is easy..... winning hearts and minds is near impossible.

Pretty much all of your wars start with a massive lie or a false flag. Nothing special about Iraq. Hard to win hearts and mind when you start with a carpet bombing. Which is the only way you start wars.

[notsonice + 1,255]

1 minute ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

This is very, very old news. Much cleaner solution that chopping stuff into unrecognizable bits and burying it as anonymous "medical waste" like the Ukrainian regime does. Have you got any for the scum you call your military? They could use some, me thinks.

Mobile crematories ....Russias greatest engineering feat of all time. 

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

17 hours ago, Boat said:

For the sake of argument lets say the citizens push back Russia. You don’t think they would want Crimea back? With the Wests help there is enough nat gas to fuel Europe for some time and cut out Russia. Win win. A very big possibility is the danger of those other Russian ex USSR states deciding to go independant of their Pro Russian governments. I know some of you boys don’t like the idea of freedom for all but it’s maybe more popular than you think. Hell you can sit around and chat like this.

The Crimeans do not want anything to do with Ukraine. Crimean citizens will fight the Ukrainian regime tooth and nail now. There is very little nat gas in Crimea, you'll be disappointed. Did you know that the Russian gas  pipe through Ukraine is pumping at full capacity right now? The price is close to all-time record, too.

You have no idea what freedom is. It is just a word from your favorite TV ad to you.

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

4 minutes ago, notsonice said:

Mobile crematories ....Russias greatest engineering feat of all time. 

Probably imported products of the murky German genius. The styling seems familiar somehow...

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

On 2/12/2022 at 5:54 AM, ronwagn said:

Here is another perspective. Free Ukraine and the Holodomor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitter_Harvest_(2017_film)

Literally picked up where Dr. Goebbels left off

https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/03/03/the-holodomor-and-the-film-bitter-harvest-are-fascist-lies/

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

On 2/12/2022 at 6:01 AM, ronwagn said:

Tell us how the Soviet Union crumbled. It crumbled because it stole the freedom of millions because it had the opportunity to do so in the name of Godless communism and its totalitarian leaders. Then tell us why the Russian people are still poor while Putin and his cronies are wealthy. Why Moscow does well but the rest of Russia suffers. 

So we thought, too, when destroying our great country. Little did we know how much freer we really were then you. Everything you told us about the shiny "free world" was a lie. Or a fancy advert for a bunch of crap, if you will. We need our country back.

[Valerie Williams + 129]

On 2/8/2022 at 7:04 AM, bobo88 said:

I believe everything Putin says !

LOL

Aren't you believing everything the EU Observer says? Doesn't the EU have a vested interest in Ukraine's membership, as you mentioned in your OP, what with all the corporations wanting to do business? Therefore, wouldn't they slant their analysis pro-NATO?

With this bit of ridicule, you assume propaganda cuts only one way. So you think "we" are the good guys, and "they" are the bad guys, and one side of media is to be taken at face value and the other entirely discounted?

[Valerie Williams + 129]

On 2/17/2022 at 2:48 AM, Andrei Moutchkine said:

Russians were there before Crimean Tatars

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tmutarakan

And so were Greeks and even Italians (Genoans)

We should give all the land back to the Adamandevians. All of it rightly belongs to them, as they were here first. We are all, everyone one of us, illegitimate usurpers and have no right be here, there, nor anywhere.

[Valerie Williams + 129]

On 2/17/2022 at 3:11 AM, frankfurter said:

please enumerate your so-called freedoms.

 

Rightly said. We are free on paper only. Every day, they are working at neutering our Constitution until it will soon be nothing but a piece of paper, incapable of securing the rights of anyone. So many are operating under the illusion of freedom that has been sold to us by our stupid, lying media and politicians. All anyone needs to do to find out if they're "free" is go against the government's narrative - you get immediately punished. We are already communist and so many fools are completely unaware. Just because they delay in bringing down the hammer, doesn't mean they don't already have it.

[notsonice + 1,255]

4 minutes ago, Valerie Williams said:

Rightly said. We are free on paper only. Every day, they are working at neutering our Constitution until it will soon be nothing but a piece of paper, incapable of securing the rights of anyone. So many are operating under the illusion of freedom that has been sold to us by our stupid, lying media and politicians. All anyone needs to do to find out if they're "free" is go against the government's narrative - you get immediately punished. We are already communist and so many fools are completely unaware. Just because they delay in bringing down the hammer, doesn't mean they don't already have it.

they are working at neutering.......We are already communist ........

maybe a mental health check is overdue

[Valerie Williams + 129]

On 2/27/2022 at 5:42 PM, bobo88 said:

I agree leaders shouldn't take away their citizens freedoms, arrest them for peaceful protesting, putting them in jail and calling their opponents Nazi's.  That's why I condemn Justin Trudeau .

 .  .  .  .  .  .  .  and Putin too 

Putin is a thug. Putin is a killer. Putin needs to be stopped. But at what price ? If it's possible. 

Understand Putin has only used 1/3 of his military buildup on the Ukraine border. You think Ukraine will win when/if Putin unleashes all that military might on Ukraine. Ukraine's resistance is impressive.  But giving 78 year old grandmother's rifles and family's making molatof cocktail bombs in their basement are only going to get more people killed for nothing. 

Talk.  Negotiate. Putin doesn't want Kyiv . Give him something to save face.  Give him a few oblasts in the east (Luhansk, Donetsk), restart the water canal flow he wants for Crimea, guarantee Ukraine won't join NATO. Get creative.  Do it before Putin destroys Ukraine's  infrastructure. I think giving a little is better than 20 to 50 thousand more deaths

Putin is not going to go away quietly.  His ego couldn't bare it. 

This all would have been avoided if Biden were not president. Biden ridiculed Putin before he was sworn in à president, saying "Putin doesn't want me as President, I'm not like my predecessor , he knows I'll go toe-to-toe with him. Biden is an idiot. 

Putin was upset ever since he lost Ukraine over 30 years ago (oil, gas, agriculture, water for Crimea, deep water ports, industrial centers. naval port, etc).  But he never acted until Biden.  A weak Biden that managed a disastrous retreat from Afghanistan.  He realized a new congress will be coming in a year that might be tougher on him. Put in knew it's now or never.  This is what we have to deal with.  

Biden only shut down 80% of the banks.  Putin can still bank.

Biden will not shut down Putin energy exports. It would work, but it would put the EU into an economic depression. Russia supplies about 41% of Europe's energy. 

Biden won't implement a no-fly zone .  Russia won't honor it.  Then you have U.S  vs Russian air war. Then things really escalate.

You sound so stupid (and goolish) cheering for the "stench of death".  Grow up.  You sound like Biden. 

Don't believe everything you hear. You only hear one side. The intelligence agencies have started the talk, "Putin has gone crazy" hoping a military coup takes Putin out.  Hopefully it works.  Just don't count on it.  

Zelenskyy is trying to buy time for reinforcement. It's too late.  Cut a deal.

PS: There is a war going on in Europe. P.utin just put his military on Nuclear Preparedness and Biden goes home to Delaware to nap and prep for the State of the Nation. That's scary. 

 

Notsonice

Putin isn't the only leader to start a war over falsehoods and lies. Ask George Bush about Iraq. 

Ask Hillary about Libya . When she started a war and killed Maummar Quadaffi so Tony Blair and Sarkozy could get Libya's oil.  Then she is responsible for the U.S. envoy getting killed and blamed it on a video. 

I agree with a lot here, but add in a slight shift in perspective:

Look how the EU has behaved. Look at its treatment of Greece. Look how it has forced its member states to become vassals in its top-down oligarchy. Think of Brexit, how it was disallowed, and then its efforts rendered null after the USA was neutered in 2020. Think of how the EU is a proxy for NATO, and NATO is a proxy for globalist oligarchs with their eye on global governance. Think of all the censorship, propaganda and manipulation of the public we've witnessed and experienced the past few years in our Western cultures - these so-called "bastions of freedom." I contend that our freedom is already gone and we are too foolish to know it.

Would Putin have acted had NATO not encroached? Is this really about land and resources, or is this about dominion and governance? Russia is the only nation not in debt to the IMF. That is a pertinent factor that no one ever mentions. Indebtedness to the IMF is the snare that compels nations into the NATO fold, because they can no longer be independent due to their unsustainable debt. Ukraine is massively in debt, like all of us, and they are caught now between a rock and a hard place.

There are no "good guys" and "bad guys" here. There is the evil of NATO and there is the ruthlessness of Putin. NATO does not offer Ukraine freedom nor independence. If it joins NATO, the corporations of the EU will pick its bones clean and use Ukraine as a proxy to further harass Russia.

Promise Ukraine will not join NATO? I doubt that will happen, since that's been the point all along. Global governance has been the point all along. I see communist behavior from NATO, so I don't think Russia's communist past is the only threat to freedom here. In fact, NATO might possibly represent something even worse.

[Valerie Williams + 129]

On 2/28/2022 at 11:54 AM, Andrei Moutchkine said:

The Crimeans do not want anything to do with Ukraine. Crimean citizens will fight the Ukrainian regime tooth and nail now. There is very little nat gas in Crimea, you'll be disappointed. Did you know that the Russian gas  pipe through Ukraine is pumping at full capacity right now? The price is close to all-time record, too.

You have no idea what freedom is. It is just a word from your favorite TV ad to you.

There was once this video from Vice News with their intrepid reporter walking about in Crimea trying - and miserably failing - to find someone, anyone, who was angry or just a little put out over the Russian annexation. Here is the link to the video that has now been removed so that we, the hoi polloi, won't be burdened with inconvenient narrative anomalies:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqHeZUS9_EY

[Valerie Williams + 129]

39 minutes ago, notsonice said:

they are working at neutering.......We are already communist ........

maybe a mental health check is overdue

Where have you been the past couple of years? Not paying attention, clearly.

[surrept33 + 609]

God Emperor Putin's statements so far:

• West are full of "lies"
• This is just a military operation
• No civilians will be harmed
• Russian army is one of the most feared army in the world
• Sanctions won't effect us
• Everything is going according to "plan"
• The pro-western opposition in Russia will be "purified"
• West are full of "lies"

Edited March 16, 2022 by surrept33

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

1 hour ago, Valerie Williams said:

We should give all the land back to the Adamandevians. All of it rightly belongs to them, as they were here first. We are all, everyone one of us, illegitimate usurpers and have no right be here, there, nor anywhere.

We are all from

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodinia

and thus, Russians

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

1 hour ago, Valerie Williams said:

There was once this video from Vice News with their intrepid reporter walking about in Crimea trying - and miserably failing - to find someone, anyone, who was angry or just a little put out over the Russian annexation. Here is the link to the video that has now been removed so that we, the hoi polloi, won't be burdened with inconvenient narrative anomalies:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqHeZUS9_EY

Simon Ostrovsky has some kind of bone to pick with Russia. Interesting how you picked up on that without knowing Russian. Or do you? He left communications with the locals which made him look bad untranslated.

[Valerie Williams + 129]

38 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

Simon Ostrovsky has some kind of bone to pick with Russia. Interesting how you picked up on that without knowing Russian. Or do you? He left communications with the locals which made him look bad untranslated.

I don't know any Russian, unfortunately, but I could definitely read the body language of the guys at the end of the video. Did you happen to see it before the video was taken down? That was hilarious. Simon came very close to getting his behind kicked because they knew what he was trying to say about them.

I don't know if he had a personal bone to pick with them (maybe you know), or if it was just the job he was given, to push a certain kind of story to the Western media consumers.

Edited March 16, 2022 by Valerie Williams

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

1 hour ago, Valerie Williams said:

I don't know any Russian, unfortunately, but I could definitely read the body language of the guys at the end of the video. Did you happen to see it before the video was taken down? That was hilarious. Simon came very close to getting his behind kicked because they knew what he was trying to say about them.

I don't know if he had a personal bone to pick with them (maybe you know), or if it was just the job he was given, to push a certain kind of story to the Western media consumers.

Simon is a specialist for hit pieces not only on Russia, but also all of ex-USSR. His big breakthrough was the "Selfie Soldiers" (who were really just one "selfie soldier") and a boycott of Uzbek cotton on made up charges of using child labor, which appears to be a privately-funded project (paid for by American cotton industry, most likely)

[Valerie Williams + 129]

On 3/16/2022 at 7:43 PM, Andrei Moutchkine said:

Simon is a specialist for hit pieces not only on Russia, but also all of ex-USSR. His big breakthrough was the "Selfie Soldiers" (who were really just one "selfie soldier") and a boycott of Uzbek cotton on made up charges of using child labor, which appears to be a privately-funded project (paid for by American cotton industry, most likely)

It does not surprise me that business competition would be the true root of stories like that. It's very difficult to try to do anything good, as the harder the media or organizations try to pull on my emotions and sense of justice, the more skeptical I am of their motives. The worst hide behind the image of justice and charity, while true suffering is ignored and hidden.

[Boat + 1,324]

On 2/27/2022 at 9:58 PM, notsonice said:

 Ask George Bush about Iraq...Yep and the US paid dearly for the Idiots claims. You would of thought Putin would have learn from Bush that invading a country is easy..... winning hearts and minds is near impossible.

For perspective the US military in Iraq and Afghanistan in 20 years lost less troops than Putin troops in one month.  Eh? Can you really compare? Nobody does wars like the US. We don’t want territory. We want the offending countries to join global trade and follow international rules. That’s quite a difference from killers for power. 

[Boat + 1,324]

The U.S. is now the top global exporter of LNG and exports are set to grow an additional 20% beyond current levels by the end of this year as additional capacity comes online.  In January 2022, U.S. LNG supplied more than half of the LNG imports into Europe for the month.

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

2 hours ago, Boat said:

For perspective the US military in Iraq and Afghanistan in 20 years lost less troops than Putin troops in one month.  Eh? Can you really compare? Nobody does wars like the US. We don’t want territory. We want the offending countries to join global trade and follow international rules. That’s quite a difference from killers for power. 

…this is why you carpet bomb them into rubble first. You are really the worst murderers there are.