Biden threatens Putin " If . . . . no longer a Nord Stream 2 . . bring end to it"

[surrept33 + 609]

West’s first wave of Russia sanctions ‘just the beginning’

EU, UK and US keep most painful measures in reserve ahead of feared full invasion of Ukraine

https://www.ft.com/content/40b149bd-cbaa-418c-90df-00fa861e22f4

Quote

Western officials say they are holding back the bulk of a long-threatened “crippling” sanctions package for what they believe to be an inevitable attack on the rest of Ukraine in the coming days.

“Putin lost in terms of what he wanted to achieve, what he was betting on,” Ingrida Simonyte, prime minister of Lithuania, told the Financial Times. “Today we see incredible unity throughout not only within western democracies . . . but also coordination with Ukraine.”

Simonyte added that not all the options should be unleashed at this point, but said “a clear message that this is just the beginning has been sent to Putin”.

Western intelligence officials told the FT that there was near certainty that Russia would in the coming days begin an attack on areas of Ukraine not held by the Kremlin-backed separatists, and likely strike Kyiv and crucial military sites.

A senior state department official acknowledged there were some limitations, saying any sanctions imposed on Russia should not disrupt global oil and natural gas flows “There are more sanctions we can impose . . . but even when we do [impose] those, the base characteristic of trying to impose them on the Russian economy and not on energy markets will be a top priority for us,” the official said.

Tougher measures that the EU and US have drawn up but not yet deployed include targeting bigger and more systemic Russian lenders, restricting Russian banks from converting roubles into dollars and blocking high-technology exports in strategic industrial sectors that are critical for the country’s economy.

Ahead of Putin’s decision, some EU members had disagreed over whether it was preferable to adopt a single powerful sanctions package or a more gradual approach.

But once it became clear that the Russian president was preparing to recognise the breakaway territories, officials opted for a graduated approach, preparing an initial, relatively targeted response that was presented by the commission and the EU diplomatic service on Tuesday morning.

“Some would like to act with everything we have now, but they understand that we have to be able to increase if need be,” said one EU official. “We still have quite a big package in reserve.”

A G7 meeting on Thursday would provide an additional opportunity to gauge the right response, the official said, saying “it will be discussed if we need to scale up the intensity”.

 

 

[Boat + 1,324]

The Germans finally decided that Russian should not complete the pipeline. Wow that’s a lot of pipe. How much will it cost to pull it up? So who has made a count of  US made fighter jets in Europe. How many of these tank killing missiles that the F-35’s use are stockpiled? Why is nobody starting a betting pool on how long it takes to poof a Russian army. I say 2 days. 

[Boat + 1,324]

A very powerful message would be to quarantine Russian oil tankers around the world. Or rented tankers by Russia to boot. When oil prices skyrocket, all eyes turn to Russia.

Edited February 23, 2022 by Boat

[Boat + 1,324]

I hear Putin loving Trump has a new social network. You can discuss how many times you can kick a ball and then declare it playable. Just like Trump politics. Lol 

[TailingsPond + 1,009]

30 minutes ago, Boat said:

I hear Putin loving Trump has a new social network. You can discuss how many times you can kick a ball and then declare it playable. Just like Trump politics. Lol 

I've read it costs $20 /month.  Good luck with that!

Edited February 23, 2022 by TailingsPond

[kshithij Sharma + 78]

3 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

No, they use to buy a lot of food from Canada before we detained the Huawei executive.

Regardless, they will not starve as they have plenty of ocean access and enjoy eating seafood.

They are luxury food. China produces about 670 million tons of grains. India produces about 310 million tons of grain with similar population. India is not having any large scale starvation deaths. So, how can you claim that China will starve without imported food? China simply is getting rich and wasting food by processing and excess consumption. There is more than enough food for survival at subsistence level 

[TailingsPond + 1,009]

9 minutes ago, kshithij Sharma said:

They are luxury food. China produces about 670 million tons of grains. India produces about 310 million tons of grain with similar population. India is not having any large scale starvation deaths. So, how can you claim that China will starve without imported food? China simply is getting rich and wasting food by processing and excess consumption. There is more than enough food for survival at subsistence level 

I said they will not starve. Reading is fundamental.

Edited February 23, 2022 by TailingsPond

[TailingsPond + 1,009]

Trump loves Putin.

"That's pretty savvy."  "We could use this on our southern border."

https://youtu.be/5jxZd6j-cjw?t=22

 

[Boat + 1,324]

The US could offer the pot market to the Mexican Cartels and they would go to Russia and clean house. I’m Trump smart to.  Europe wouldn’t have to worry about where they get their drugs and the nat gas in the region will be taxed. As in fill up a tanker or two once a week.

Edited February 23, 2022 by Boat

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

13 hours ago, kshithij Sharma said:

Nordstream never supplied even 1 can of gas as it was still in pilot testing mode. So, that is not a loss at all.

Not strictly true.

Nord Stream 2 the more than $11 billion project that has bothered Germany's allies was completed in September but has been idle pending certification by Germany and the European Union.

[Boat + 1,324]

1 hour ago, Rob Plant said:

Not strictly true.

Nord Stream 2 the more than $11 billion project that has bothered Germany's allies was completed in September but has been idle pending certification by Germany and the European Union.

Just an opinion but nat gas was the plan and maybe it can be again. That pipeline should not stop renewables or going electric. But I wouldn’t count on a steady supply from dozens of shakey suppliers including Russia. Politics is like Mother Nature, dammed unreliable.  

[bobo88 + 58]

On 2/22/2022 at 12:52 PM, bobo88 said:

Nobody ever trusted Putin.  Nothing new.

THE BIG QUESTION ???

As of last August the U.S. was importing close to 850 thousand bbls/day of crude and petrol products from Russia ! That's closer to 1 million bbls/day now. 

Does Biden expect Germany and Europe to cease buying gas and oil from Russia and still allow U.S. Corporation to buy 1 million bbls/day from Russia ?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-04/russia-captures-no-2-rank-among-foreign-oil-suppliers-to-u-s 

Well Joe, what say you ?

If yes Northeast gasoline and diesel prices are going to start to look like California.

Joe never thinks things thru before he puts his proverbial foot in his mouth. 

Ok

August 26, 2021 was a thousand times worse than January 6, 2021.

August 26th : Joe's incompetency with his Afghanistan retreat resulted in 13 U.S soldiers killed.  Joe left Americans behind.  

January 6th : During a protest that turned violent a a capital policeman used deadly force to kill a young unarmed women protestor.

 

Edited February 24, 2022 by bobo88

[bobo88 + 58]

13 hours ago, Boat said:

I hear Putin loving Trump has a new social network. You can discuss how many times you can kick a ball and then declare it playable. Just like Trump politics. Lol 

Love your posts

Unfortunately Putin won.

Biden's sanctions will hurt U.S. Middle Class and Europe more than Russia. Washington DC elite don't care. 

New cold war ?  Putin doesn't care.  Europe and China will continue to do business.  The Cold War will be between Russia and U.S. Democrat Party.

 

Edited February 23, 2022 by bobo88

[RichieRich216 + 454]

20 hours ago, notsonice said:

Do you think NATO should step in or the US send troops to Ukraine......or are you just a babbling bone spurred coward? Deal with it Biden is arming the Ukrainians with the best weapons around and Trump was the guy who tried to stop arming Ukraine.....

I believe we have to defend article five for NATO Countries. As far as Ukraine, I would give them battlefield nuke, meager yield to displace Russian tanks, and the EMP disrupt and fry their communications.

[RichieRich216 + 454]

16 hours ago, frankfurter said:

uh, in your so-called democracy, you get what you vote for.

if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. 

So you must be the RAGING TO DIE FOR DEMOCRAT

[notsonice + 1,255]

1 hour ago, RichieRich216 said:

I believe we have to defend article five for NATO Countries. As far as Ukraine, I would give them battlefield nuke, meager yield to displace Russian tanks, and the EMP disrupt and fry their communications.

so sad the Ukrainians gave up their nukes, Putin would have never invaded the Ukraine

[notsonice + 1,255]

3 hours ago, bobo88 said:

Love your posts

Unfortunately Putin won.

Biden's sanctions will hurt U.S. Middle Class and Europe more than Russia. Washington DC elite don't care. 

New cold war ?  Putin doesn't care.  Europe and China will continue to do business.  The Cold War will be between Russia and U.S. Democrat Party.

 

Ruble getting creamed again today...The Ruble really stops at Putin's desk . Truman coined it originally as "The Buck Stops Here" Putin now owns it as The Ruble stops here.....Please look at his desk in the Kremlin......

Edited February 23, 2022 by notsonice

[RichieRich216 + 454]

26 minutes ago, notsonice said:

so sad the Ukrainians gave up their nukes, Putin would have never invaded the Ukraine

No kidding, They should have never trusted Clinton! They wanted to and have FREEDOM to choose and thought Clinton was a straight shooter, but based on Monica’s dress, that should have been a TELL. Unfortunately, Ukraine is pretty much Fucked at this point; Putin wants to exact and impose punishment to make a point.

These young Russian solders have been sitting on the border of Ukraine have been texting. They live like shit and don't fully understand why they are sitting there freezing their asses off. These Russian Federation Soldiers were not even born when the USSR broke apart.

[Starschy + 211]

Biden sanctions the Northstream2 Company. A complete useless effort. That company was just a Vehikel for all investors till Northstream 2 was built. Pipes where fully bought before 2018 every  single one of them. Ships are leased.

You can every time create a shell company for some Trades as example selling rights for Equipment etc.

[notsonice + 1,255]

57 minutes ago, RichieRich216 said:

No kidding, They should have never trusted Clinton! They wanted to and have FREEDOM to choose and thought Clinton was a straight shooter, but based on Monica’s dress, that should have been a TELL. Unfortunately, Ukraine is pretty much Fucked at this point; Putin wants to exact and impose punishment to make a point.

These young Russian solders have been sitting on the border of Ukraine have been texting. They live like shit and don't fully understand why they are sitting there freezing their asses off. These Russian Federation Soldiers were not even born when the USSR broke apart.

Let every one have nukes ??? not really a good long term solution is it....... Under your thinking should Iran have nukes ??? or should South Africa still have them ?

 

We (the US) have plenty of Nukes, should we give some spare ones to Ukraine today????

 

or should we send in troops to enforce the Budapest Memorandum???

 

 

The Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances refers to three identical political agreements signed at the OSCE conference in Budapest, Hungary on 5 December 1994 to provide security assurances by its signatories relating to the accession of Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons. The memorandum was originally signed by three nuclear powers: the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom and the United States. China and France gave somewhat weaker individual assurances in separate documents.^[1]

The memorandum included security assurances against threats or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan.

As a result, between 1994 and 1996, Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons. Until then, Ukraine had the world's third-largest nuclear weapons stockpile,^[2][3] of which Ukraine had physical, but not operational, control. Russia alone controlled the codes needed to operate the nuclear weapons^[4][5] via Russian-controlled electronic Permissive Action Links and the Russian command and control system.^[4][5] Formally, these weapons were controlled by the Commonwealth of Independent States.^[6]

In 2009, Russia and the United States released a joint statement that the memorandum's security assurances would still be respected after the expiration of the START Treaty.^[7]

After the annexation of Crimea by Russia in 2014, Canada,^[8] France, Germany, Italy, Japan,^[9] the UK^[10] and US^[11][12]stated that Russian involvement was a breach of its Budapest Memorandum obligations to Ukraine which had been transmitted to the United Nations under the signature of Sergey Lavrov and others,^[13] and in violation of Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity. On 4 March 2014, the Russian president Vladimir Putin replied to a question on the violation of the Budapest Memorandum, describing the current Ukrainian situation as a revolution: "a new state arises, but with this state and in respect to this state, we have not signed any obligatory documents."^[14] Russia stated that it had never been under obligation to "force any part of Ukraine's civilian population to stay in Ukraine against its will." Russia suggested that the US was in violation of the Budapest Memorandum and described the Euromaidan as a US-instigated coup.^[15]

 

Edited February 23, 2022 by notsonice

[notsonice + 1,255]

33 minutes ago, Starschy said:

Biden sanctions the Northstream2 Company. A complete useless effort. That company was just a Vehikel for all investors till Northstream 2 was built. Pipes where fully bought before 2018 every  single one of them. Ships are leased.

You can every time create a shell company for some Trades as example selling rights for Equipment etc.

Nord Stream 2 is now dead, the US was never a supporter of it. Sanctions suck for Putin, he can use the pipe to ?????

Edited February 23, 2022 by notsonice

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

2 hours ago, notsonice said:

so sad the Ukrainians gave up their nukes, Putin would have never invaded the Ukraine

Never really had any. Those were Soviet nukes placed in Ukraine. Launch codes stayed in Moscow.

[TailingsPond + 1,009]

Some of you people seem to have little problem with using nukes. 

Modern large conventional explosives are plenty powerful, do not make radioactive contamination, and do not have the very serious political ramifications of using nukes.

30,000 pound bomb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massive_Ordnance_Penetrator

[notsonice + 1,255]

15 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

Never really had any. Those were Soviet nukes placed in Ukraine. Launch codes stayed in Moscow.

how long do you think it takes to take the code part off the nuke and rewire them????? the Plutonium triggers and the actual nuke need no stinking codes......Who cares where the codes are when you got the bomb itself. The Ukrainians just did not have the codes to launch the suckers... The fear at the time was the nukes would end up in the wrong hands (who also did not have the codes). Stick the bomb in a plane and you have a launch vessel that has a few thousand miles in range. 

Edited February 23, 2022 by notsonice

[TailingsPond + 1,009]

1 minute ago, notsonice said:

how long do you think it takes to take the code part of the nuke and rewire them????? the Plutonium triggers and the actual nuke need no stinking codes......Who cares where the codes are when you got the bomb itself. The Ukrainians just did not have the codes to launch the suckers... The fear at the time was the nukes would end up in the wrong hands (who also did not have the codes)

I highly doubt the Ukrainians ever had much direct access to the bombs.  You would have to be epic stupid to lose a A-bomb to a potential adversary.