turbguy + 1,472 May 13 (edited) 26 minutes ago, specinho said: A Coal plant owner or government agencies e.g. EPA is doing the test? There is a common scenario of " you see what you want to see"... They CEMS systems require independent testing and verification on a periodic basis. The owner is responsible for normal CEMS operation, maintenance, and reporting (including reporting when the CEMS system is offline). Should any owner be found to be intentionally "cooking the books" on reporting emissions, the owner better have a good lawyer. Otherwise they will find themselves behind bars. ...and the fines ($, not dust) ain't cheap. You can start here: https://www.epa.gov/emc/emc-continuous-emission-monitoring-systems BTW, petroleum refineries must have CEMS systems as well, although I have no experience with what emissions they track. Edited May 13 by turbguy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specinho + 444 May 13 48 minutes ago, turbguy said: They CEMS systems require independent testing and verification on a periodic basis. The owner is responsible for normal CEMS operation, maintenance, and reporting (including reporting when the CEMS system is offline). Should any owner be found to be intentionally "cooking the books" on reporting emissions, the owner better have a good lawyer. Otherwise they will find themselves behind bars. ...and the fines ($, not dust) ain't cheap. You can start here: https://www.epa.gov/emc/emc-continuous-emission-monitoring-systems BTW, petroleum refineries must have CEMS systems as well, although I have no experience with what emissions they track. If they are monitoring, why hasn't there been any action taken to change it e.g. filter NOx and SOx out before release? They can a) pass waste gas by running water to dissolve NOx and SOx, forming acid? b) filter with wet cotton/ cloth to retain NOx and SOx? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turbguy + 1,472 May 13 (edited) 1 hour ago, specinho said: If they are monitoring, why hasn't there been any action taken to change it e.g. filter NOx and SOx out before release? They can a) pass waste gas by running water to dissolve NOx and SOx, forming acid? b) filter with wet cotton/ cloth to retain NOx and SOx? There are many flue gas treatment systems in use at coal fired generating plants. Here's the scoop! The key pollutants the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) regulates from these sources includes particulate matter (PM), nitrogen oxides (NOx), and sulfur dioxide (SO2). -Particulate matter in the flue gas is collected typically via ESP's (Electro Static Precipitators) or filters (Bag Houses). This is mostly fly ash. If the fly ash is "clean enough" (unburned carbon is the "dirt"). it can actually be sold as a substitute for portland cement. -SO₂ is mostly (90%+) removed though Flue Gas Desulfrization systems: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flue-gas_desulfurization These systems typically require a feed of quick lime, and generate a significant slurry waste to deal with, although sometimes it can be used to make drywall (aka, "Sheetrock"©). The typical use is to attempt to level out West Virginia by dumping it into a valley waste pond. A BIG waste pond! -NOx is mostly removed through SCR (Selective Catalytic Reduction) systems, requiring anhydrous ammonia (nasty stuff) as a reagent. Another chemical you must transport, store, and use continuously during operation. There are a host of proven technologies that do both, these are the most common. Some installations have a single system that does both. The CEMS system is monitoring downstream of these systems. Typically, the equipment is located rather high up the stack. Adding and operating such systems has a penalty by consuming more house-power, effectively reducing NET power delivered. Some early plants with these systems "were their own best customer"! _______________________________________________________________________________________ There are systems that effectively remove most CO₂. These commonly use amine-based spray systems. Even if the owner can find a customer for the removed CO₂, the penalty of using house power and steam to heat the amine to: -Release the CO₂ -Cool the amine for reuse after gas release -Then compress the CO₂ for delivery to "somewhere" ...can easily reduce the generating unit net generation by 15% or more!!! Ouch! I know of only one such operating unit in North America (in Saskatchewan) that removes CO₂. I think there might be a second such unit in North Dakota, but I'm not up-to-date on it's status. Edited May 13 by turbguy 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,148 DM May 15 (edited) pesky solar panels and batteries........ The U.S. Battery Boom Is Revolutionizingl Renewable Energy By Felicity Bradstock - May 15, 2024, 11:00 AM CDT https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/The-US-Battery-Boom-Is-Revolutionizing-Renewable-Energy.html The U.S. has become a hub for battery storage projects due to government incentives and investments in battery technology. California is leading the way in battery storage, aiming to make its grid 100% green-energy-powered by 2045. Texas is also experiencing a boom in battery storage investment, as companies seek to capitalize on the growing renewable energy market. Edited May 15 by notsonice 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turbguy + 1,472 May 15 Caliso today about 2:00 PM. Wow. Just,,,,WOW! Looks like we have come quite a distance with renewables. California is EXPORTING abour 2 GW, while charging batteries with 2+ GW! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turbguy + 1,472 May 15 (edited) ...and here is ERCOT (that's most of Texas). Wow. Just WOW! All that fossil fuel, now freed up for sale elsewhere! What was the title of this thread? Oh, yeah, it asks that question, just about 2 years ago: "How Far Have We Really Gotten With Alternative Energy" Edited May 15 by turbguy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
footeab@yahoo.com + 2,158 May 16 3 hours ago, turbguy said: Caliso today about 2:00 PM. Wow. Just,,,,WOW! Looks like we have come quite a distance with renewables. California is EXPORTING abour 2 GW, while charging batteries with 2+ GW! WOW: California ~$0.30/kWh USA ~ $0.15/kWh Bravo! Bravo! Almost as stupid as Europe! Bravo! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turbguy + 1,472 May 16 52 minutes ago, footeab@yahoo.com said: WOW: California ~$0.30/kWh USA ~ $0.15/kWh Bravo! Bravo! Almost as stupid as Europe! Bravo! As I have said elsewhere: The bottom line with ALL of this (and other) thread's conversation is to come to re-realize that all of humanity is the caretaker of the only planet with limited areas we can hope to survive upon. If you are of the opinion that someone else, or perhaps some deity, has this obligation, you might need to rethink your world view. Humanity does not have any other choice. The "battle" here is for hearts and minds, against forces that are well-organized and well-funded, but not especially well-informed. Money is certainly not the answer. In fact, money appears to be the impediment! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
footeab@yahoo.com + 2,158 May 16 9 minutes ago, turbguy said: As I have said elsewhere: The bottom line with ALL of this (and other) thread's conversation is to come to re-realize that all of humanity is the caretaker of the only planet with limited areas we can hope to survive upon. If you are of the opinion that someone else, or perhaps some deity, has this obligation, you might need to rethink your world view. Humanity does not have any other choice. The "battle" here is for hearts and minds, against forces that are well-organized and well-funded, but not especially well-informed. Money is certainly not the answer. In fact, money appears to be the impediment! Your religion is showing, NG is not a problem. Coal handled properly is not a problem and neither is nuclear. Yes, it is the ECONOMY stupid as that allows a thing called EXCESS which you can then put towards IMPROVING, ADVANCING technology and the world in which we live. Enjoy your crystals and nature worship, but here in reality, economy matters. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turbguy + 1,472 May 16 (edited) 3 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said: Your religion is showing, NG is not a problem. Coal handled properly is not a problem and neither is nuclear. Yes, it is the ECONOMY stupid as that allows a thing called EXCESS which you can then put towards IMPROVING, ADVANCING technology and the world in which we live. Enjoy your crystals and nature worship, but here in reality, economy matters. Watch your insurance premiums over the next few years (IF you can still get coverage). Edited May 16 by turbguy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,148 DM May 17 There is a monster in the Loch Ness......enough power to keep 1 Million homes running when the wind stops blowing,,,add this one to the Drax facility at Cruachan along with battery storage and the undersea interconnects and the UK is on a path to getting rid of all Fossil Fuel power generation https://www.edie.net/3bn-pumped-hydro-storage-project-slated-for-loch-ness/#:~:text=Glen Earrach Energy (GEE) has,one million homes each year. Glen Earrach Energy (GEE) has today (17 May) unveiled plans to develop a £3bn, 2GW pumped hydro storage project, located near Loch Ness in Scotland, that could generate enough clean energy to power one million homes each year.11 hours ago £3bn pumped hydro storage project slated for Loch Ness - edie 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,148 DM May 22 get used to it Luddites coal and nat gas are on the way out in the US Wind and Solar are now over 99 Percent of New capacity in the US China will follow along in the next 12 months reNews Solar reaches 87% new US capacity in Q1 A review by the SUN DAY Campaign of data just released by the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC) reveals solar provided nearly 87%... . 16 hours ago Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,682 RP May 22 (edited) On 5/16/2024 at 1:04 AM, footeab@yahoo.com said: WOW: California ~$0.30/kWh USA ~ $0.15/kWh Bravo! Bravo! Almost as stupid as Europe! Bravo! And yet Texas is $0.14/kWh with all those renewables Turbguy posted, go figure! https://www.energybot.com/electricity-rates/#:~:text=Electricity Rates for Every State in The U.S.&text=The Average Electricity Rate in,10.5 cents per kilowatt-hour. The problem with living in the USA is that you dont even have to consider energy security whatsoever. In many countries that is a very real issue as was highlighted by the war in Ukraine Over the last year in the UK less than 1/3 of electricity generation was with FF (31.9%) The price based on the APX spot market, which reflects the real-time wholesale price of electricity in Great Britain was £73.26/MWh and emissions were 141g/KWh. This price is falling. https://moneyweek.com/personal-finance/605440/will-energy-prices-go-down#:~:text=The energy consultancy estimates prices,by bolstered renewable energy output. Edited May 22 by Rob Plant Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,682 RP May 22 @ronwagn Ron you started this thread in March 2022 and asked the question "how far have we really gotten with alternative energy?" 2 years down the line maybe is a good time to share with us what your thoughts are now and if you think alternative energy is going to continue to grow or whether it is a white elephant as some on here think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
footeab@yahoo.com + 2,158 May 22 2 hours ago, Rob Plant said: And yet Texas is $0.14/kWh with all those renewables Turbguy posted, go figure! Which is truly pathetic. It was under 10c until all the shit wind was installed and cost of NG effectively became near ~free. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,148 DM May 22 (edited) 1 hour ago, footeab@yahoo.com said: Which is truly pathetic. It was under 10c until all the shit wind was installed and cost of NG effectively became near ~free. It was under 10c????......are your posts adjusted for inflation???? as we can see they are not which is truly pathetic reality Electricity costs in Texas are now at there lowest costs ever...adjusted for inflation.........and from your post lets give wind the credit.... until all the shit wind was installed.........well since wind really cranked up be in 2013 to this day and look at the cost of electricity in Texas see the chart below...todays capacity 40 GW and the output as a percentage today over 25 percent of all electricity generated the spikein 2022...caused by soaring fossil fuel prices...the wind ....is free whcih results in constant low cost power Edited May 22 by notsonice 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
footeab@yahoo.com + 2,158 May 25 On 5/22/2024 at 9:20 AM, notsonice said: It was under 10c????......are your posts adjusted for inflation???? as we can see they are not which is truly pathetic reality Electricity costs in Texas are now at there lowest costs ever...adjusted for inflation.........and from your post lets give wind the credit.... until all the shit wind was installed.........well since wind really cranked up be in 2013 to this day and look at the cost of electricity in Texas see the chart below...todays capacity 40 GW and the output as a percentage today over 25 percent of all electricity generated the spikein 2022...caused by soaring fossil fuel prices...the wind ....is free whcih results in constant low cost power Sigh: Move just outside the ERCOT region with all that garbage wind, to a region with lots of NG just like TX and what is the price of Electricity in Louisianna? https://findenergy.com/la/ 11.3 cents boyo. Texas with all its shit wind is 13c--.>14c 10c commercial and 5.6c Industrial. Honestly, You would think after LOSING every argument on this website, you would dig 2 strokes past stupid eh? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,148 DM May 26 On 5/25/2024 at 9:44 AM, footeab@yahoo.com said: Sigh: Move just outside the ERCOT region with all that garbage wind, to a region with lots of NG just like TX and what is the price of Electricity in Louisianna? https://findenergy.com/la/ 11.3 cents boyo. Texas with all its shit wind is 13c--.>14c 10c commercial and 5.6c Industrial. Honestly, You would think after LOSING every argument on this website, you would dig 2 strokes past stupid eh? lol...thanks for ignoring that energy costs have gone up with inflation.....yet solar and wind have decreased at the same time.... And for your favorite fossil fuel Gasoline....remember the good old days when gasoline was under 20 cents a gallon................and yet you keep telling us how great fossil fuels are.................. here is reality Enjoy wind power or solar power....they are the cheapest source of power these days Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,148 DM May 26 (edited) Solar LCOE now 29% lower than any fossil fuel option, ... pv magazine International https://www.pv-magazine.com › 2023/12/08 › solar-lco... Dec 8, 2023 — Solar has rapidly fallen in average LCOE globally, from more than $400/MWh in the early 2010s to about $49/MWh in 2022, down 88%. Wind power ... Energy transition update: LCOE Nuveen https://www.nuveen.com › global › insights › alternatives 6 days ago — Energy transition Q2 2024 update: Levelized cost of electricity from renewables ... By 2030 the LCOE of solar PV could fall by 55%, while the ... Solar PV LCOE expected to slide to $0.021/kWh by 2050 ... pv magazine International https://www.pv-magazine.com › 2023/10/11 › solar-pv... Oct 11, 2023 — By mid-century the levelized cost of energy (LCOE) for solar PV will be $0.021/kWh, a new report by risk management company DNV predicts. Edited May 26 by notsonice Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
footeab@yahoo.com + 2,158 May 26 4 hours ago, notsonice said: lol...thanks for ignoring that energy costs have gone up with inflation.....yet solar and wind have decreased at the same time.... And for your favorite fossil fuel Gasoline....remember the good old days when gasoline was under 20 cents a gallon................and yet you keep telling us how great fossil fuels are.................. here is reality Enjoy wind power or solar power....they are the cheapest source of power these days Ah, poor guy you can't post REAL numbers(already has inflation IN THEM which I linked to from ACTUAL ENERGY COMPANIES) which people PAY, yet you post made up bull so called "graphs" Here is reality Genius, inflation is true for ALL products.... Uh, so is hail making solar useless wherever hail falls currently unless you use solar panels as fencing and losing ~30% of solar collected(assuming there are ZERO trees of course) BraVO! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 538 GE May 27 (edited) 3 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said: Ah, poor guy you can't post REAL numbers(already has inflation IN THEM which I linked to from ACTUAL ENERGY COMPANIES) which people PAY, yet you post made up bull so called "graphs" Here is reality Genius, inflation is true for ALL products.... Uh, so is hail making solar useless wherever hail falls currently unless you use solar panels as fencing and losing ~30% of solar collected(assuming there are ZERO trees of course) BraVO! You make up numbers (~30%) all the time and pretend to do math. FYI "real numbers" has a scientific meaning. Here is a real number 1.14. Edited May 27 by TailingsPond Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,148 DM May 28 On 5/26/2024 at 4:44 PM, footeab@yahoo.com said: Ah, poor guy you can't post REAL numbers(already has inflation IN THEM which I linked to from ACTUAL ENERGY COMPANIES) which people PAY, yet you post made up bull so called "graphs" Here is reality Genius, inflation is true for ALL products.... Uh, so is hail making solar useless wherever hail falls currently unless you use solar panels as fencing and losing ~30% of solar collected(assuming there are ZERO trees of course) BraVO! and you claim to be an engineer , however at the same time you seem unable to read the graph below...... Solar is the cheapest even compared to Nat gas and Solar and batteries these days is much cheaper than Gas peakers.. Wind is also cheaper than Nat gas No wonder why all new capacity in the US is solar or solar/batteries or wind now who was claiming, on this forum, the only factor that matters is the price????? enjoy the read https://www.nrel.gov/news/video/lcoss-text.html Levelized Cost of Solar Plus Storage (Text Version) National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) (.gov) https://www.nrel.gov › news › video › lcoss-text https://www.nrel.gov/news/video/lcoss-text.html For LCOSS, we calculated that it varies from $55.00 per megawatt hour to $91.00 per megawatt hour without the ITC in the case of Phoenix and New York, and from .. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carlou33 0 May 29 I seem to recall that a surge in demand drove the price up. It might be helpful for you to take a few courses in economics to better understand these market dynamics, go here! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
footeab@yahoo.com + 2,158 May 29 (edited) 15 hours ago, notsonice said: and you claim to be an engineer , however at the same time you seem unable to read the graph below...... Solar is the cheapest even compared to Nat gas and Solar and batteries these days is much cheaper than Gas peakers.. Wind is also cheaper than Nat gas No wonder why all new capacity in the US is solar or solar/batteries or wind now who was claiming, on this forum, the only factor that matters is the price????? enjoy the read https://www.nrel.gov/news/video/lcoss-text.html Levelized Cost of Solar Plus Storage (Text Version) National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) (.gov) https://www.nrel.gov › news › video › lcoss-text https://www.nrel.gov/news/video/lcoss-text.html For LCOSS, we calculated that it varies from $55.00 per megawatt hour to $91.00 per megawatt hour without the ITC in the case of Phoenix and New York, and from .. Here ya go REAL Industrial prices, not LCOE government LIES: https://findenergy.com/la/ Louisiana: 5.6c/kWh --> NG Washington 6.3c/kWh --> Hydro Kentucky: 6.5c/kWh --> Coal Texas: 7c/kWh --> NG/wind North Dakota 6.9c/kWh --> NG New York: 6.9c/kWh--> NG/Nuclear/Hydro Iowa: 7c/kWh Wind/Coal/NG--> offsets costs to Illinois Ohio: 7.1c/kWh ---> NG/Coal W. Virginia 7.2c kWh --> NG/Coal Kansas: 7.9c/kWh --> Coal/NG/Wind Arizona 7.9c/kWh --> NG/Nuclear Illinois 8.3c/kWh--> Nuclear/NG/Wind(from Iowa) By capacity they are next to only Iowa, yet production is pigsty--> No, wind is not cheap. Florida 9.3c/kWh --> NG/Nuclear California: 19 c/ kWh --> Pixi farts NG/solar/nuclear Hawaii: 34.4 c/kWh --> Unicorn farts solar/diesel By far MOST expensive power: Solar Wind partially can work if there is actually wind<<cough Illinois you FOOLS>> and you have LOTS Of dirt cheap NG available. According to brain dead people like you, California/Hawaii has the cheapest power. Stop posting LIES. Edited May 29 by footeab@yahoo.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,682 RP May 29 (edited) 3 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said: Texas: 7c/kWh --> NG/wind And yet Texas is sixth cheapest! In 2023, wind represented 28.6 percent of Texas energy generation, second to natural gas (41.8 percent). There are 239 wind-related projects in Texas and more than 15,300 wind turbines, the most of any state. Texas wind power generation surpassed the state's nuclear generation in 2014 and coal-fired generation in 2020. Its a large proportion of powergen in the state. Edited May 29 by Rob Plant Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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