Italy And EU Clash Over Fate Of Stranded Migrants

[ThunderBlade + 231]

Brussels has hit out at “finger pointing” and “threats” from Italy’s Eurosceptic government over a stand-off about the fate of 150 rescued migrants on a boat stranded in the Mediterranean since last weekend. Rome’s populist alliance has demanded other EU countries take their share of 150 migrants on the Diciotti coastguard vessel that has been docked since Sunday. Luigi Di Maio, leader of the Five Star Movement and deputy prime minister, today threatened to pull Italy’s contribution to the EU budget if a solution is not found. “We won’t be messed around by other EU countries,” Mr Di Maio told Italian television on Friday. “We give €20bn a year to the EU and we get back a little more than €10bn. We want to be net contributors to the EU but only if there is a willingness to help us in a reciprocal way. This means no more pushing us around on immigration”. The commission has called an emergency meeting of 12 governments to discuss the fate of the Diciotti and other measures to distribute refugees across member states in Brussels today. Responding to Mr Di Maio’s budget comments, a spokesman for the European Commission said Brussels was determined to find a solution to the migrant impasse and would not respond to threats. “Lets not engage in finger pointing. Unconstructive comments, let alone threats, are not helpful. Threats don’t work in Europe. They don’t get you anywhere”, said the spokesman.

[franco + 96]

Not Italy, please, not in my name. Just write the Italian Govern.👎

[Petar + 76]

That's 0.85 % the EU will be short if Italy wanna go out. Big deal! I hope Italy will not need EU for something else then.

[Pavel + 384]

2 months ago EU said that migrants came in Pozzallo will be "redistributed" in 6 other countries. That have not happened. Only France took it's part. Italy In last years have took 1 million migrants. Sometimes you have to say, that's enough.... 

[jpZelabal + 63]

Hard line from (hard) right political wings.... Expected

[pinto + 293]

Fair play to the Italians -  but you can either have control of your borders or EU membership. You can’t have both. Equal rules for all.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

These are not legal migrants. These are illegal economic migrants.

[rainman + 263]

"Simple" choice for them: ITALEXIT or respect the EU... Ask Theresa May how's it going with BREXIT...

[Robert Ziegler + 121]

Ave, Imperator Europæorum, morituri te salutant

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

The irony is that Italy would do much better if it seceded from the EU.  The reason is subtle:  the Italian economy is structured around small family firms, in specialty products such as Italian leather, silk ties, clothing, shoes, handbags, various items of jewelry, wines, olives, other foodstuffs.  It also picks up cash from tourism, especially in Rome and Venice.  It has earnings in trans-shipment ports such as Trieste.  And it has metal-working factories in Turin.  

Historically, when Italy got into trouble with its relative productivity and started getting priced out of its traditional markets, the government simple devalued the Lira.  Currency devaluation allows continued sales of products made inefficiently, against those built by efficient producers but with higher costs due to higher currency valuations.  We see the same phenomenon in all manner of goods between the USA and Canada. 

But now Italy has the Euro, and the valuation of a common currency means that there is no devaluation leverage to place in play against sophisticated manufacturers in Scandinavia, France, and Germany.  It is stuck, and cannot develop monetary policy to keep its products in play on the Euro-stage.  Even worse, because Italy has no independent Lira, it cannot devalue to retain its markets in the USA, Canada, Australia, and other large importing countries.  So Italy has to stay with a crimped economy, relying on fiscal policies that crimp its factories and result in unemployment and relative poverty.  

If Italy leaves, so will Spain and Greece.  Italy has no desire to end up like Greece, a wrecked, impoverished country.  A separate currency and the ability to devalue would avoid that fate.  So: will Italy demand "out" from the Euro?  Who knows?  Lots of pressure to do so. 

Edited August 24, 2018 by Jan van Eck

[Tomasz + 1,608]

Gaddafii in his famous last public speech said that after his overthrow Libya in next  50 years will be a broken country with civil war and migrant from south - whole Africa will flood Europe because Libya is natural gate to this continent. Its punishment  for France and Italy because Berlusconi and Sarkozy  strongly supported Libyan rebel to pay less for oil and gas from this country.

[Eodmatt + 114]

"Threats don’t work in Europe. They don’t get you anywhere”, said the spokesman."

Unless of course they are made by the EU and their unelected but alcoholic president and his mate from Poland who runs the EC.

[Eodmatt + 114]

22 hours ago, Robert Ziegler said:

Ave, Imperator Europæorum, morituri te salutant

Alles hat ein Ende, nur die Wurst hat zwei!

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

On 8/24/2018 at 8:28 AM, Tom Kirkman said:

These are not legal migrants. These are illegal economic migrants.

I would gently remind you that all of America was built by "economic migrants."   Back in the day, the British, Germans, and Italians did a thriving business in the "immigrant trade," where poor migrants to the USA traveled in "steerage class," in the bowels of the steamship, in double-decker bunk beds, and the Company simply assigned you "room-mates" for the voyage.  Those ships traveled "packed," and unloaded in New York at Ellis Island, for a perfunctory issuance of a "landing card" after recording of names in a government registry.  You saw "steerage class" portrayed in passing in the movie Titanic, which, despite its expensive first-class section, was basically a steamship designed to haul lots and lots of immigrants to America. None of those migrants had a visa; that was unknown.

The difference with the Africans showing up in Italy is (of course) that those migrants are far too poor to even afford a steerage-class ticket, after they have paid for guides across the desert, been robbed in Libya, and abandoned to die on sinking rubber boats by the most insolent of Libyan scum. 

Edited August 27, 2018 by Jan van Eck

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

1 hour ago, Jan van Eck said:

The difference with the Africans showing up in Italy is (of course) that those migrants are far too poor to even afford a steerage-class ticket, after they have paid for guides across the desert, been robbed in Libya, and abandoned to die on sinking rubber boats by the most insolent of Libyan scum. 

Enforced "open borders" for illegal economic migrants would be akin to removing the locks and doors on your house and encouraging random homeless strangers to move into your house for housing and food - provided by you - free of charge.  And the random strangers can just live in your house as long as they feel like it.  And invite more random people to stay in your house as well.

Illegal economic migrant disaster in EU is snowballing.

[TXPower + 643]

I would add that my and many others forebears who came here, poor, hungry and in search of opportunity, came here and went through a controlled point of immigration.  They weren’t sent here by a confederation of nation states who said America had to take them.   

Behind our Founder’s genius in creating our government and constitution, the second most important factor in the greatness of America was the immigrants who flocked here, entered legally, worked hard and became Americans.  

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

7 hours ago, TXPower said:

I would add that my and many others forebears who came here, poor, hungry and in search of opportunity, came here and went through a controlled point of immigration.  They weren’t sent here by a confederation of nation states who said America had to take them.   

Behind our Founder’s genius in creating our government and constitution, the second most important factor in the greatness of America was the immigrants who flocked here, entered legally, worked hard and became Americans.  

^  this.

Well said, TXPower.

[youdriveahardbargain + 3]

 

8 hours ago, TXPower said:

I would add that my and many others forebears who came here, poor, hungry and in search of opportunity, came here and went through a controlled point of immigration.  They weren’t sent here by a confederation of nation states who said America had to take them.   

Behind our Founder’s genius in creating our government and constitution, the second most important factor in the greatness of America was the immigrants who flocked here, entered legally, worked hard and became Americans.  

African migrants cover the poor, hungry and in search of opportunity qualifiers you state here. If there was a controlled point of immigration which GUARANTEED them access on the basis of them hitting all qualifiers as was existing in America in the previous era you speak of, they would gladly take advantage of that instead of risking their lives.

Do you think almost dying is a fun experience??

 That alone shows their determination, resolve and crucially, desperation. I am of the belief that Africa needs to be shook by the scruff of it's neck. The west needs to hold african leaders accountable and punish them suitably, recognizing now the butterfly effect that ineffective leadership/corruption can have on stability on their own domestic fronts.

The people don't even like their leaders. Instead of acceptance as the price of doing business, punish them. Force them to learn. 

 

[TXPower + 643]

1 hour ago, youdriveahardbargain said:

 

African migrants cover the poor, hungry and in search of opportunity qualifiers you state here. If there was a controlled point of immigration which GUARANTEED them access on the basis of them hitting all qualifiers as was existing in America in the previous era you speak of, they would gladly take advantage of that instead of risking their lives.

Do you think almost dying is a fun experience??

 That alone shows their determination, resolve and crucially, desperation. I am of the belief that Africa needs to be shook by the scruff of it's neck. The west needs to hold african leaders accountable and punish them suitably, recognizing now the butterfly effect that ineffective leadership/corruption can have on stability on their own domestic fronts.

The people don't even like their leaders. Instead of acceptance as the price of doing business, punish them. Force them to learn. 

 

We agree on what is wrong with Africa and the solution.  

Although I agree with your synopsis of the current plight of these illegal immigrants and I can also appreciate that many die or almost die fleeing their home countries, I cannot agree that Italy or any European nation has an obligation to admit them.  

And no I do not think almost dying is a fun experience.  You might have noticed my signature which indicates what region I hail from.  Let’s just say I’m very familiar with illegal immigrants, what they face and the unique set of problems they present.  This does not change the facts or sway my resolve that controlled, legal immigration is a good thing for any country and illegal unmitigated immigration is a bad thing for any country.

 

[jaycee + 348]

On the topic of Italy I lived and worked there recently for a year plus I have many contacts in that country so my take on it is as follows.
Italians have given up on government to provide anything. They are all corrupt and impose high taxes to pay for the massive debt they have run up. What they have spent it on I am not sure as Italy is incredibly bureaucratic with very poor infrastructure, the collapsed bridge in Genoa is a recent example of lack of investment and I suspect corruption which will come out in the enquiry, The economy is largely black and most transactions are in cash, credit or bank cards are infrequently used they still have options for paying for petrol in cash at petrol pumps and I rarely saw a card used anywhere. There is widespread nepotism in the job market and the cost of living is high compared to the wages that are earned. The addition of migrants to this mix is not helpful as they find it very difficult to find work thus resorting ot crime or begging hence the normal Italian wants them out. 
As for leaving the EU that will not happen the vast majority dont want Italian politicians running the country they actually trust EU ones more than their own corrupt ones! All they really want to go back to the devaluing the currency days they used to enjoy, the two obviously are not compatible due to the intransigence of the Bundesbank which wants tight fiscal policy and the EU wide determination of accepting migrants. Germany however now is beginning to really feel the cost of that policy with vigilante killings and civil unrest due to the migrants not integrating into the strict Germany way of life, the rise of the right in Germany is also having an effect on government immigration policy so the Italians may have a bit of leverage on that point. I like the tactic of the Italians of talking about holding back paying the EU budget contribution they really need to get concessions to allow them to restructure their economy away from the constant borrowing they do to survive currently.I suspect however they will need a strong backbone to face upto the Germans and he rest who will be determined to crush any dissent following Brexit.
Interesting times in the EU and all very predictable considering their inflexible policies. I expect even more fun in the next few years.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

7 hours ago, TXPower said:

Although I agree with your synopsis of the current plight of these illegal immigrants and I can also appreciate that many die or almost die fleeing their home countries, I cannot agree that Italy or any European nation has an obligation to admit them.

 

[franco + 96]

 Hypocrisy of power in Italy that calls for the EU to share the alleged burden of the alleged "refugee crisis", while making alliances with hard - liners (Hungary PM Victor Orban) in Europe who are against any form of cooperation... People can't choose their destiny - put yourself in the skin of those people at the moment, and then try to write your impression. 

[jaycee + 348]

28 minutes ago, franco said:

alleged burden of the alleged "refugee crisis", while making alliances with hard - liners (Hungary PM Victor Orban) in Europe who are against any form of cooperation

Hi

can you explain why you say alleged burden and alleged refugee crisis are you saying there is no problem? 

[franco + 96]

The key word here is hypocrisy and everything else is allegedly. Allegedly, this Italian government is democratic, it is allegedly just fine to let people  die on ships and allegedly Hungarian Prime Minister Orban is a democrat. I don't think that putting the wire on the borders is a way of solving the crisis. i was hoping that we were finished with the wire after the Nazis camps and Hitler's regime.

[TXPower + 643]

1 hour ago, franco said:

The key word here is hypocrisy and everything else is allegedly. Allegedly, this Italian government is democratic, it is allegedly just fine to let people  die on ships and allegedly Hungarian Prime Minister Orban is a democrat. I don't think that putting the wire on the borders is a way of solving the crisis. i was hoping that we were finished with the wire after the Nazis camps and Hitler's regime.

Your characterization of Hungary’s actions is incorrect, one sided at best and fueled by a general lack of the proper understanding of national sovereignty and governments first and most important duty, that is, to protect its own citizens.  By doing so government maintains culture, prosperity and standard of living.  

The Wire” as you would have it is called a border, something that separates one from another. This is lost on most of Europe and responsible in a very real way for much of the grief there.