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Reality catching up with EV forecasts

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EV forecasts being cut back yet again, as reality bites. Again, it must be emphasised, that no-one has problem with EVs as such. The real problem occurs when activists make inflated, often ridiculous claims about future sales, while remaining completely unaware of the problems of such cars. 

Affordable electric cars ‘not viable’, car maker warns
The Times, 23 January 2023

A mass market in affordable electric cars will not happen soon because of the difficulty of producing them on a commercially viable basis, one of the largest makers of zero-emission vehicles for British drivers has warned.

Paul Philpott, UK chief executive of Kia, the fast-growing South Korean car company, said it had no immediate plans for a mass-market electric product.

Some fear there is a prospect of a society of haves and have-nots in the electric car revolution because of the sheer cost of buying or financing a zero-emission vehicle.

Philpott’s prediction also threatens to undermine the government’s ban on selling petrol and diesel vehicles by 2030.

With price inflation roaring ahead in the past couple of years, there are only a handful of electric cars available below £30,000, compared with the less than £20,000 that motorists would expect to pay for mass market or entry-level petrol cars. Even the smallest electric car, the zero-emission version of the Fiat 500, starts at about £30,000.

This month the Advanced Propulsion Centre, the government’s automotive electrification agency, significantly cut electric car forecasts for 2025 because “buyers are expected to stick with cheaper options for longer”.

While European and Asian manufacturers have been stepping up production of electric vehicles, they have been concentrating on more expensive models to make healthy profit margins on the cost of installing electrified systems. The battery pack is the costliest component of an electric car. The smaller the car, the larger the proportion the battery in its production cost.

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(edited)

40 minutes ago, markslawson said:

 

Affordable electric cars ‘not viable’, car maker warns
The Times, 23 January 2023

Paul Philpott, UK chief executive of Kia, the fast-growing South Korean car company, said it had no immediate plans for a mass-market electric product.

 

Kia's opinion on a competing product they don't make is clearly unbiased.

Kia's are low-end.

Edited by TailingsPond

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43 minutes ago, TailingsPond said:

Kia's are low-end.

Thus reinforcing the point ... Try a little contemplation next time...😝

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3 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Thus reinforcing the point ... Try a little contemplation next time...😝

It suffers from a what once was a rare form of cognitive distortion.

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(edited)

3 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Thus reinforcing the point ... Try a little contemplation next time...😝

I understood, but is "you are too poor for nice things" really a dis against EV's?  That may be true for some but EV prices are falling fast (a good thing).

Thankfully, even public transit (largely for those who can't afford cars at all) are switching to nice EV's. https://www.edmonton.ca/projects_plans/transit/electric-buses

 

Edited by TailingsPond

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(edited)

38 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

It suffers from a what once was a rare form of cognitive distortion.

You have many plates of crow in front of you.

Take big bites.  Terrific. Terrific bites.  Nobody eats like you.

The Fake Media says you take little bites.  Show them you eat crow like no other. Huge, Bigly bites.

 

FYI

Trump was actually nominated for speaker of the house and got one vote.

Edited by TailingsPond

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The Cheapest New Cars for 2023:

  1. 2023 Honda Civic Sport Sedan: Base Price $24,650
  2. 2023 MINI Hardtop Classic 2-Door Hatchback: Base Price $23,400
  3. 2023 Mazda Mazda3 S Sedan: Base Price $22,550
  4. 2023 Toyota Corolla LE Sedan: Base Price $21,550
  5. 2023 Hyundai Elantra SE Sedan: Base Price $20,500
  6. 2023 Volkswagen Jetta S (Manual) Sedan: Base Price $20,415
  7. 2023 Subaru Impreza (Manual) Sedan: Base Price $19,795
  8. 2023 Kia Forte LX Sedan: Base Price $19,490
  9. 2023 Nissan Versa S: Base Price Estimate $15,880
  10. 2023 Mitsubishi Mirage ES Hatchback: Base Price $16,245
  11. P.S. The Kia gets a great review.  
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22 minutes ago, Ron Wagner said:

The Cheapest New Cars for 2023:

  1. 2023 Honda Civic Sport Sedan: Base Price $24,650
  2. 2023 MINI Hardtop Classic 2-Door Hatchback: Base Price $23,400
  3. 2023 Mazda Mazda3 S Sedan: Base Price $22,550
  4. 2023 Toyota Corolla LE Sedan: Base Price $21,550
  5. 2023 Hyundai Elantra SE Sedan: Base Price $20,500
  6. 2023 Volkswagen Jetta S (Manual) Sedan: Base Price $20,415
  7. 2023 Subaru Impreza (Manual) Sedan: Base Price $19,795
  8. 2023 Kia Forte LX Sedan: Base Price $19,490
  9. 2023 Nissan Versa S: Base Price Estimate $15,880
  10. 2023 Mitsubishi Mirage ES Hatchback: Base Price $16,245
  11. P.S. The Kia gets a great review.  

The sort order is backwards... "The cheapest."

I admit newer Kias seem to be of better quality.

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2 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

You have many plates of crow in front of you.

Take big bites.  Terrific. Terrific bites.  Nobody eats like you.

The Fake Media says you take little bites.  Show them you eat crow like no other. Huge, Bigly bites.

 

FYI

Trump was actually nominated for speaker of the house and got one vote.

Do I sense at attitude here? TikTok TikTok.....The Kracken wakes.

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11 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

Kia's opinion on a competing product they don't make is clearly unbiased.

Kia's are low-end.

Very reliable & functional

My mechanic says buy a BMW or Audi. You'll never make me rich driving Toyotas, Hyundai's or Kias

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7 hours ago, Ron Wagner said:

The Cheapest New Cars for 2023:

  1. P.S. The Kia gets a great review.  

"Reviews".  They are all fake BS roses anyways... OOoo the cupholder placement and how many... ooo shiny.  Unless you mean a 10 year review done by people who are not given/beholden to cars by the manufacturer to drive with well over 100,000miles, then that is an actual review.  Anything before this is a joke as they are all the same other than vanity/ego/comfort and how much $$$ you dumped down the drain when you bought it.  Lemons only get found out around 100,000 miles+++  No one has any idea before this if it is worth it or not.

The biggest jokes of all are the "safety" stars.  It is not crash safety anymore.  It is all the bells and Bull Shit whistles making up the stars in the review and has nothing to do with your personal safety.

And if you want REAL personal safety reviews, go by the insurance payouts... Do not drive lightweight cars be they expensive or cheap unless you NEVER drive on a highway.  Safest car is a low to the ground, poor fuel mileage heavy sedan followed by minivans be they expensive or cheap.

Buy, used(~10 year old) heavy comfortable sedans or minivans.  Your insurance rates will likewise be vastly lower as well.   I have never paid over $320 for car insurance yet.  Though with inflation I expect this to be increasing. 

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17 hours ago, NickW said:

Very reliable & functional

My mechanic says buy a BMW or Audi. You'll never make me rich driving Toyotas, Hyundai's or Kias

I've owned 3 Toyotas and one Nissan - all were very dependable even when abused.

I bought a early '80's (I think '81) Tercel with ~230,000Km on it from a guy who had literally road the car over a jump and caught big air.  He was smashed and drove to the local ski hill and drove it off a big ski jump.  It didn't roll but got stuck in the snow, they left it and ran. He got lots of tickets the next morning (but no drunk driving).

I paid $300 for it.  It still ran at slightly more than 300,000km but it was rusted beyond repair.  Gave it to charity.

I loved that thing.  It didn't even need a good battery; it was light with a manual transmission; push starting it was rather easy.

 

 

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On 1/24/2023 at 10:42 AM, TailingsPond said:

Kia's opinion on a competing product they don't make is clearly unbiased.

Kia's are low-end.

Not sure what you are saying with this comment but the Kia quote is an indication. Look at the cut in sales projection by the government agency. 

 

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On 1/24/2023 at 10:36 AM, TailingsPond said:

Tesla just significantly cut prices, TSLA share price rallies

Again, not sure what you're hoping to prove with this. Tesla's share price has been sinking like a stone over the past year, for reasons that don't have much to do with the EV market. Tesla's are still priced at well above entry level cars.  No mass adaption.  

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10 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

I've owned 3 Toyotas and one Nissan - all were very dependable even when abused.

I bought a early '80's (I think '81) Tercel with ~230,000Km on it from a guy who had literally road the car over a jump and caught big air.  He was smashed and drove to the local ski hill and drove it off a big ski jump.  It didn't roll but got stuck in the snow, they left it and ran. He got lots of tickets the next morning (but no drunk driving).

I paid $300 for it.  It still ran at slightly more than 300,000km but it was rusted beyond repair.  Gave it to charity.

I loved that thing.  It didn't even need a good battery; it was light with a manual transmission; push starting it was rather easy.

 

 

We have 2 Toyotas. 

One is a 2013 Hybrid (Auris / Corolla) Estate 

The other is a 2008 1.6  hatch. It was my dads. when he died I took it as our 2nd car / runabout. Do about 3-4000 miles a year in it. 

Both extremely reliable. Low insurance. The hatch is not that economical but most the time it does short journeys. 

 

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11 hours ago, markslawson said:

Not sure what you are saying with this comment but the Kia quote is an indication. Look at the cut in sales projection by the government agency. 

 

Please read the review on the Kia and you will see they have greatly increased their ratings. Please explain what luxury means to you. To me it just means comfort, mainly in seating, but second would be minimal road noise. Power to merge and pass. My wife insists on cruise control so we just added it to our Mirage.

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On 1/24/2023 at 6:32 AM, footeab@yahoo.com said:

"Reviews".  They are all fake BS roses anyways... OOoo the cupholder placement and how many... ooo shiny.  Unless you mean a 10 year review done by people who are not given/beholden to cars by the manufacturer to drive with well over 100,000miles, then that is an actual review.  Anything before this is a joke as they are all the same other than vanity/ego/comfort and how much $$$ you dumped down the drain when you bought it.  Lemons only get found out around 100,000 miles+++  No one has any idea before this if it is worth it or not.

The biggest jokes of all are the "safety" stars.  It is not crash safety anymore.  It is all the bells and Bull Shit whistles making up the stars in the review and has nothing to do with your personal safety.

And if you want REAL personal safety reviews, go by the insurance payouts... Do not drive lightweight cars be they expensive or cheap unless you NEVER drive on a highway.  Safest car is a low to the ground, poor fuel mileage heavy sedan followed by minivans be they expensive or cheap.

Buy, used(~10 year old) heavy comfortable sedans or minivans.  Your insurance rates will likewise be vastly lower as well.   I have never paid over $320 for car insurance yet.  Though with inflation I expect this to be increasing. 

Problem is there are no heavy sedans anymore that I know of. Maybe the large Mercedes. 

 

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2 hours ago, NickW said:

We have 2 Toyotas. 

One is a 2013 Hybrid (Auris / Corolla) Estate 

The other is a 2008 1.6  hatch. It was my dads. when he died I took it as our 2nd car / runabout. Do about 3-4000 miles a year in it. 

Both extremely reliable. Low insurance. The hatch is not that economical but most the time it does short journeys. 

 

I have always ruled out Toyota because of their warranty being only 60,000 miles on the warranty. I have had two Nissans, a Hyundai Elantra that were all great cars. Presently drive the lowest priced car around town. A Mitsubishi Mirage. It has a ten year 100,000 mile drive train warranty like every other car that I know of. For long trips we drive a Nissan NV3500 that is a 12 seater. We will be driving it to Los Angeles from Illinois then to Seattle, then through Montana and back down to Illinois.

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5 hours ago, Ron Wagner said:

Please read the review on the Kia and you will see they have greatly increased their ratings. Please explain what luxury means to you. To me it just means comfort, mainly in seating, but second would be minimal road noise. Power to merge and pass. My wife insists on cruise control so we just added it to our Mirage.

Ron - I have no views on luxury. I bought a new car, a grand Toyota Corolla, for the first time a few years back and it got me places just fine and gave no trouble. My daughter drives it now and she also has not reported any trouble. Not sure what else there is to say. Life is too complicated already without buying electric so I won't. 

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6 hours ago, Ron Wagner said:

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/why-every-tesla-getting-heat-213000624.html New heat pump design for all Teslas. Very impressive concept. 

Uh... a STANDARD 70 year old HVAC unit is "impressive"... 

You have got to be kidding me.  😝

Of course an electric car will have an HVAC unit... you need heating and cooling of various components.  Ooooo they integrated a larger multiway valve with solenoids on it... wow how "futureistic" a valve... how "impressive".   It should have been standard on every unit ever sold from the start. 

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5 hours ago, Ron Wagner said:

Problem is there are no heavy sedans anymore that I know of. Maybe the large Mercedes. 

 

All the luxury cars both new and old are heavy sedans weighing in at ~2.5tons+.  All of your minivans weigh ~2.5 tons.  Suburbans only weigh 2.5t yet are MUCH bigger and why they are literally one of the worst cars to buy out there.  Worst cars in an accident?  SMART car 0.75ton.  Ex cop cars weigh that etc etc etc.  Cheap ass Buick lasabres are out there with 20mpg+  Life expectancy, depends on how religious you change the oil.  A cost to be sure, but when you can buy one with less than 100,000 miles on them even when a ~20 year old car for around $4000 or less, this is literally a steal or close to it.    Pretty much any single low mileage car who was owned by older retired people is a good deal if you can verify it had its oil changed regularly, if you can't, don't touch it as old people forget or just get lazy and ignore it. 

 

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It was oversold from the beginning and will continue to be nothing more than failed fantasy dreams for the foreseeable future! fantasy

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