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E-car Sales Collapse

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Eyes Wide Open    + 3,546

Eyes Wide Open

(edited)

Just another day in Green Paradise....It would appear there are many days ahead...

Just another debacle’: Ford is cutting production of its electric pickup — the same truck Joe Biden drove to push EVs in America. Former Chrysler CEO says infrastructure is 'not there'

Jing Pan
Wed, January 24, 2024 at 4:00 AM PST·3 min read
 
I think this whole EV is just another debacle in a long list of issues for this administration,” he said in a recent interview with FOX Business.

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/just-another-debacle-ford-cutting-120000074.html

Edited by Eyes Wide Open
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周永樂    + 3

周永樂

No surprise though, right?

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frankfurter    + 562

ff

On 1/25/2024 at 3:28 PM, Eyes Wide Open said:

As to cuts...a economic disaster is coming to leasing institutions worldwide..This will shake EU market places to its core.

Fleets face ‘sharp rise’ in lease costs if EV used values fall further

 

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/fleets-face-sharp-rise-in-lease-costs-if-ev-used-vales-fall-further

 

 

Average-Price-of-Used-Tesla-1.jpg

excellent point.  must be the result of some act of the Chinese, right?  The reason could not possibly be the fact that American EVs are shit, now could it? 

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frankfurter    + 562

ff

On 1/7/2024 at 5:57 AM, TailingsPond said:

 

https://www.sierraclub.org/sierra/climate-change-even-worse-we-thought-ipcc-report

"In order to keep temperatures worldwide from rising any higher, writes the IPCC, emissions need to decline rapidly across all of society’s main sectors, including buildings, industry, transport, energy, and agriculture, forestry, and other land use. Coal needs to go. Transportation needs to be electrified."

https://www.greenpeace.org/canada/en/press-release/62623/greenpeaces-reaction-to-the-new-electric-vehicle-availability-standard-federal/

“Governments must be bolder and speed up the transition towards electric vehicles, ending any new light-duty gasoline vehicle sales by 2030 at the latest.* Introducing an electric vehicle availability standard is an essential element for the climate action toolbox, which needs to be swiftly implemented by governments."

It all sounds very communistic to me. Is this the new era for Amerika?  🙂

Whatever happened to the premise, people change when they have a compelling reason ? 

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frankfurter    + 562

ff

On 12/12/2023 at 12:25 PM, Ron Wagner said:

https://justthenews.com/nation/states/center-square/despite-concerns-290-electric-vehicle-fee-proposal-advances

 

Despite concerns, $290 electric vehicle fee proposal advances in Pennsylvania

The fee would fund highway maintenance and construction.

cross.svg
Powered ByVDO.AI
 
 
 
 
 
 
By Anthony Hennen | The Center Square
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Published: December 11, 2023 11:00pm

(The Center Square) -

(The Center Square) — Although a bill that creates an electric vehicle fee in Pennsylvania cleared a House committee on Monday, it’s unlikely to pass in its current form.

Senate Bill 656, sponsored by Sen. Greg Rothman, R-New Bloomfield, would replace the alternative fuel tax with a $290 EV fee paid at the time of vehicle registration. Owners would also have the option of enrolling in a monthly payment plan.

The fee would fill the place of the gas tax for electric vehicles, which some experts have called the “best path forward” as gas tax revenues continue to fall in Pennsylvania, leaving a funding gap for highway maintenance.

Democrats on the House Transportation Committee oppose the fee, but advanced the bill to the chamber floor anyway for debate to tease out what they see as its unfair approach.

The current system for EV owners is to file monthly statements on electric use and remit the tax to the Department of Revenue. Rothman, in a legislative memo, called the process cumbersome and noted that most EV owners don’t file the statements or are unaware that they are required to.

“This legislation will simplify the process and ensure electric vehicle owners are paying their fair share towards the Commonwealth’s transportation infrastructure, just as individuals who drive gas-powered vehicles contribute towards fuel taxes,” Rothman wrote.

The fee would fund highway maintenance and construction.

In June, the Senate passed the bill 41-9.

The committee approved the bill on a 22-3 vote, but not without reservations.

“I oppose the current version of this bill,” Rep. Ed Neilson, D-Philadelphia. “I adamantly oppose this piece of legislation. I’m going to vote yes today only so we can move the bill forward to the full House while the amendment is still being negotiated between leadership of both the House and the Senate.”

Neilson said that countless meetings with various groups have followed a May committee hearing on EV fees.

“There’s a whole lot of agreement that EV owners should pay some kind of EV fee to upkeep our roads and bridges. However, this is not the right bill,” he said. “If this bill passes and gets put into law, (the fee) will be the highest in the country. We want to make sure that this legislation is done fairly — $290 is way too high.”

The fee has already been negotiated down. In Rothman’s original proposal, private owners would have paid a $380 annual fee and commercial owners would have paid a $450 annual fee, though the $290 figure has been discussed since May.

 

Neilson also criticized the current bill as not including rules concerning plug-in hybrid vehicles, pegging the fee to inflation, and other “technical issues.”

The revised figure is close to what Pennsylvanians pay on average through the gas tax. A report from the Independent Fiscal Office found that the average driver paid $285 in gas taxes in 2021.

House Republicans called the bill a fair change.

“There’s an issue of fairness here — I think everyone that drives on our roads needs to pay a fair share on that,” Rep. Kerry Benninghoff, R-Bellefonte, said.

uh, is there not already a tax for highway maintenance?  and how is it being administered?  cannot be too well, 'cause amerika's highways are shit. and, not to mention bridges.  

 

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Heather_Anderson    + 2

Heather_Anderson

The recent decline in new electric vehicle registrations in Germany, particularly the sharp drop in battery electric vehicle (BEV) registrations in January, reflects the impact of reduced government support payments and changes in subsidy structures. The decision to cut support payments for new e-cars in mid-2022 aimed to adjust to the increasing attractiveness of electric vehicles (EVs) without substantial incentives.

In December, there was a surge in BEV registrations as buyers rushed to avail the full subsidy, resulting in a significant drop in registrations the following month. The lower support rates at the beginning of this year, ranging from 3,000 to 4,500 euros for battery electric or fuel cell cars, have evidently affected the appeal of EVs to potential buyers.

While the car industry association VDA anticipates a slight increase in battery electric vehicle sales in 2023 compared to the previous year, the overall EV market is expected to experience an eight percent decline. Plug-in hybrid car sales are projected to drop by 30 percent.

VDA emphasizes the importance of bolstering public trust in e-mobility to counteract the impact of reduced support payments. Addressing concerns such as convenient and widespread charging infrastructure is crucial to ensuring the sustained attractiveness of electric vehicles in the absence of significant premiums. As the EV market undergoes these adjustments, ongoing efforts to enhance charging infrastructure and build confidence in e-mobility are essential components of the strategy to maintain healthy sales figures throughout the year.

 

Check out more information at the official site

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frankfurter    + 562

ff

On 1/18/2024 at 9:42 AM, TailingsPond said:

If you watch the video it said that most users loved the little e-cars, it was the government that is pushing them out because people could drive them without a licence which brings a bunch issues.

 

Imagine forcing manufacturers to comply with safety laws, and people with licensing laws.  Such laws are a violation of personal freedoms. How dare those evil communists copy our standards and compete with us amurcuns. 

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TailingsPond    + 497

GE

7 hours ago, frankfurter said:

Imagine forcing manufacturers to comply with safety laws, and people with licensing laws.  Such laws are a violation of personal freedoms. How dare those evil communists copy our standards and compete with us amurcuns. 

Next they are going to tell me I can't have a gun rack in my truck!

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Ecocharger    + 1,383

DL

The EV revolution has run out of gas (excuse the pun).

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/electric-buses-sitting-unused-cities-across-the-us

"Between the federal government, states and municipalities, untold billions in taxpayer dollars have been spent adding electric buses to transit fleets across the U.S. in an effort to reduce carbon emissions. 

However, cities from coast-to-coast are grappling with broken-down e-buses that cannot be fixed, are too expensive to fix, or they have scrapped their electric fleets altogether.

Officials in Asheville, North Carolina, recently expressed frustration that three of the five e-buses the city purchased for millions in 2018 are now sitting idle due to a combination of software issues, mechanical problems and an inability to obtain replacement parts.

Earlier this month, The Denver Gazette reported two of the four e-buses Colorado Springs' Mountain Metropolitan Transit acquired in 2021 are not running. 

They cost $1.2 million a piece, mostly paid for by government grants. 

Part of the problem is the manufacturer of the buses, Proterra, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in August. The company, founded in 2004, rose to become the largest e-bus company in the U.S., representing nearly 40% of the market prior to going belly-up."
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frankfurter    + 562

ff

11 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

The EV revolution has run out of gas (excuse the pun).

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/electric-buses-sitting-unused-cities-across-the-us

"Between the federal government, states and municipalities, untold billions in taxpayer dollars have been spent adding electric buses to transit fleets across the U.S. in an effort to reduce carbon emissions. 

However, cities from coast-to-coast are grappling with broken-down e-buses that cannot be fixed, are too expensive to fix, or they have scrapped their electric fleets altogether.

Officials in Asheville, North Carolina, recently expressed frustration that three of the five e-buses the city purchased for millions in 2018 are now sitting idle due to a combination of software issues, mechanical problems and an inability to obtain replacement parts.

Earlier this month, The Denver Gazette reported two of the four e-buses Colorado Springs' Mountain Metropolitan Transit acquired in 2021 are not running. 

They cost $1.2 million a piece, mostly paid for by government grants. 

Part of the problem is the manufacturer of the buses, Proterra, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in August. The company, founded in 2004, rose to become the largest e-bus company in the U.S., representing nearly 40% of the market prior to going belly-up."

The bus problem stems from crony capitalism: the design and manufacture in USA. 

An EV bus in China is far less cost and is reliable. But the US has banned participation by any Chinese companies: re the legislation against BYD.

Yet, the amurcuns believe they have a God given right to participate in the China market, be completely tax free, pollute the enviro, steal China tech, and walk away with all the profits. 

Such is the rules-based order.  So the average Joe in amurka is gonna pay dearly for sub-standard tech and greedy corp execs. ya can't fix stupid.

 

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notsonice    + 1,093

DM

5 hours ago, frankfurter said:

The bus problem stems from crony capitalism: the design and manufacture in USA. 

An EV bus in China is far less cost and is reliable. But the US has banned participation by any Chinese companies: re the legislation against BYD.

Yet, the amurcuns believe they have a God given right to participate in the China market, be completely tax free, pollute the enviro, steal China tech, and walk away with all the profits. 

Such is the rules-based order.  So the average Joe in amurka is gonna pay dearly for sub-standard tech and greedy corp execs. ya can't fix stupid.

 

steal China tech???? Chinese tech?????? 

 

face it your beloved Russia has nothing to offer and China....well they do make cheap trinkets  

 

 

 

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frankfurter    + 562

ff

1 hour ago, notsonice said:

steal China tech???? Chinese tech?????? 

 

face it your beloved Russia has nothing to offer and China....well they do make cheap trinkets  

 

 

 

oh, I see... the amurcans are the only people with any intelligence to create all the ideas, IP, and tech in the world.  The amurcun government never spies upon its own citizens, never passes laws to limit their freedoms, never invades other countries and murder the inhabitants, and very much more nevers.  Actually, such poopaganda is good for you, as you will later not see or know what hits you.  But please, do continue to enlighten us. 

 

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TailingsPond    + 497

GE

(edited)

On 1/30/2024 at 11:56 PM, notsonice said:

steal China tech???? Chinese tech??????

China has plenty of tech.  They have nukes and a space program etc.  The idea they can't make some comparatively simple EV's is silly. 

Also consider that if they are stealing your IP that then means they can outsmart your IP security systems, and they already have your tech.

So they have either better espionage (in person or computer based) and equal tech (the stuff that they just obtained from you).

Lastly consider the population difference.  If, lets say, a genius appears once for every 1000 people they would have many more geniuses. Combine that with the vast numbers of international students they have studying at universities around the world soaking up knowledge and bringing it home...

Edited by TailingsPond

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Rob Plant    + 2,648

RP

1 hour ago, TailingsPond said:

China has plenty of tech.  They have nukes and a space program etc.  The idea they can't make some comparatively simple EV's is silly. 

Also consider that if they are stealing your IP that them means they can outsmart your IP security systems, and they already have your tech.

So they have either better espionage (in person or computer based) and equal tech (the stuff that they just obtained from you).

Lastly consider the population difference.  If, lets say, a genius appears once for every 1000 people they would have many more geniuses. Combine that with the vast numbers of international students they have studying at universities around the world soaking up knowledge and bringing it home...

Hard to argue against that.

However Chinese tech firms undeniably did steal from in particular tech firms in silicon valley but decades ago in many cases. Now I think they have rapidly caught up and in some areas advanced further than the West.

In fact there is a significant "brain drain" out from China which does destabilise what they are trying to achieve

China's Economy Faces a Brain Drain As Thousands of Millionaires Leave (businessinsider.com)

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TailingsPond    + 497

GE

11 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

 

However Chinese tech firms undeniably did steal from in particular tech firms in silicon valley but decades ago in many cases.

It absolutely happens and continues to happen (just not as much as back then).

Another comment is the tech companies steal (or illegally copy) from each other all the time, even when they are based out the same nation and may only have financial, not political motivation, for the thefts.

Google, Apple, Facebook, Twitter, etc. are always suing each other over something...

 

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Ron Wagner    + 649

Ron Wagner

On 1/26/2024 at 4:12 AM, Rob Plant said:

Yeah in the UK the car is yours to go wherever you want whenever you want, as you say there is a tax burden to pay but on EV's and hybrids/PHEV's that is far less than ICE vehicles and that will be the test for those when the tax incentives stop.

The reason European gasoline and diesel is so expensive is largely taxes and lack of production. 

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Rob Plant    + 2,648

RP

9 hours ago, Ron Wagner said:

The reason European gasoline and diesel is so expensive is largely taxes and lack of production. 

Maybe so in some European countries, not so in some like Norway, UK etc

That is purely down to taxes not lack of production.

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Ron Wagner    + 649

Ron Wagner

On 1/30/2024 at 7:45 AM, Ecocharger said:

The EV revolution has run out of gas (excuse the pun).

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/electric-buses-sitting-unused-cities-across-the-us

"Between the federal government, states and municipalities, untold billions in taxpayer dollars have been spent adding electric buses to transit fleets across the U.S. in an effort to reduce carbon emissions. 

However, cities from coast-to-coast are grappling with broken-down e-buses that cannot be fixed, are too expensive to fix, or they have scrapped their electric fleets altogether.

Officials in Asheville, North Carolina, recently expressed frustration that three of the five e-buses the city purchased for millions in 2018 are now sitting idle due to a combination of software issues, mechanical problems and an inability to obtain replacement parts.

Earlier this month, The Denver Gazette reported two of the four e-buses Colorado Springs' Mountain Metropolitan Transit acquired in 2021 are not running. 

They cost $1.2 million a piece, mostly paid for by government grants. 

Part of the problem is the manufacturer of the buses, Proterra, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in August. The company, founded in 2004, rose to become the largest e-bus company in the U.S., representing nearly 40% of the market prior to going belly-up."

Natural gas is the answer for cleaner ICE fuel in large vehicles. The environmental extremists are the ones who stopped it thus fighting the best in search of perfection. It was a very stupid move since they had no bridge to get them to where they ultimately want to go. 

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footeab@yahoo.com    + 2,136

footeab@yahoo.com

On 1/30/2024 at 4:58 PM, frankfurter said:

The bus problem stems from crony capitalism: the design and manufacture in USA. 

An EV bus in China is far less cost and is reliable. But the US has banned participation by any Chinese companies: re the legislation against BYD.

Yet, the amurcuns believe they have a God given right to participate in the China market, be completely tax free, pollute the enviro, steal China tech, and walk away with all the profits. 

Such is the rules-based order.  So the average Joe in amurka is gonna pay dearly for sub-standard tech and greedy corp execs. ya can't fix stupid.

 

More than likely those buses were from China genius.  How many cities in China have had to buy Diesel buses as their garbage Ebuses have all died?  Hrmm? 

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frankfurter    + 562

ff

9 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

More than likely those buses were from China genius.  How many cities in China have had to buy Diesel buses as their garbage Ebuses have all died?  Hrmm? 

yet more poopaganda from you?  or are you woke?

uh, +75% of all urban buses in China are EV.

fyi...  

https://www.sustainable-bus.com/news/china-electric-bus-market-2022-subsidies/

Unlike amurcuns, China is actually doing something about carbon emissions. Instead of denigrating, you should be complimenting. 

 

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Jeroen Goudswaard    + 57

Jeroen Goudswaard

On 2/2/2024 at 12:38 AM, Ron Wagner said:

The reason European gasoline and diesel is so expensive is largely taxes and lack of production. 

It is only the taxes.

Granted, the EU has to import oil, but at the same time it is a global market. The relative price difference between WTI, Brent and Opec Basket is so small, that you wouldn't notice at the pump. You do notice the >120% tax though (VAT and excise duty)

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Jeroen Goudswaard    + 57

Jeroen Goudswaard

11 hours ago, Ron Wagner said:

Natural gas is the answer for cleaner ICE fuel in large vehicles. The environmental extremists are the ones who stopped it thus fighting the best in search of perfection. It was a very stupid move since they had no bridge to get them to where they ultimately want to go. 

After the price shock of natural gas in Europe (from €5/MWh [May '20] to €235/MWh [Sep '22]), natural gas has lost its appeal outside of USA. Weaning off gas sounds like a smarter business idea.

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Jeroen Goudswaard    + 57

Jeroen Goudswaard

On 1/25/2024 at 7:12 PM, footeab@yahoo.com said:

How beyond STUPID is anyone who leases ANYTHING?  Biggest suckers ever found, dumb fools who lease shit.  Anytime I hear they are leasing something, I immediately see them as a sucker to be taken advantage of for profit by me if I can figure out how to get them hooked. 

There are many reasons to lease a car.

1. New in country, or a history of accidents. A leased car will have a much lower insurance premium.

2. New technology like BEV. What is the value of the BEV after 4 years? Given that depreciation is the largest cost of a car, you might want to hedge your exposure by leasing.

3. Fixed duration employment contract in a foreign country. We all know the poor residual value of a car if you _need_ to sell.

4. To buy a car typically involves a loan. Dependent on your credit rating, this loan could be very expensive. Leasing might turn out to be cheaper.

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