E-car Sales Collapse

[Ecocharger + 1,473]

2 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

EV share of the used market more than doubled in two years. That is Moore's Law exponential growth and it will double again over the next two years and the two years after that...  EVs will be 50% of the used market in 6 or 7 years. 

Moore's Law has no application to this issue, of course, just more silly hyperbole from the Climate Panic folks.

On a world wide basis you are seeing less than 1% of the used car market EV. Just more silliness of yours to ignore that.

Less than 1% of the transportation industry is EV and that will not change significantly.

Fossil fuels dominate transportation.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

30 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Moore's Law has no application to this issue, of course, just more silly hyperbole from the Climate Panic folks.

On a world wide basis you are seeing less than 1% of the used car market EV. Just more silliness of yours to ignore that.

Less than 1% of the transportation industry is EV and that will not change significantly.

Fossil fuels dominate transportation.

Another of your nonsense claims made without any evidence. The mere fact that 7% of the US used market is EV makes the global percentage greater than 1%.

Moore's Law rate of exponential growth for 50 years was absolutely doubling every two years which is what the US used EV market just did. Deal with it.

 

Edited June 21, 2023 by Jay McKinsey

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

EU electric vehicle sales jump 71%

BERLIN, June 21 (Reuters) - Electric vehicle (EV) sales in the European Union jumped 71% in May

Moore's Law rate of growth is only 42%.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/european-car-sales-rise-may-acea-2023-06-21/

Edited June 21, 2023 by Jay McKinsey

[Ecocharger + 1,473]

32 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Another of your nonsense claims made without any evidence. The mere fact that 7% of the US used market is EV makes the global percentage greater than 1%.

Moore's Law rate of exponential growth for 50 years was absolutely doubling every two years which is what the US used EV market just did. Deal with it.

 

Moore's law has no application in this issue, where the best and cheapest mode of personal transport is fossil fuel vehicles and only wild and panic-driven government policies could change the picture and people forced by government fiat to abandon their personal vehicles.

Show me your world numbers on the used car market. Just your own personal say so is not good enough.

[Ecocharger + 1,473]

1 hour ago, Jay McKinsey said:

EU electric vehicle sales jump 71%

BERLIN, June 21 (Reuters) - Electric vehicle (EV) sales in the European Union jumped 71% in May

Moore's Law rate of growth is only 42%.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/european-car-sales-rise-may-acea-2023-06-21/

And still less than a fraction of 1% of the transportation sector. Nothing significant there.

Here is your quote,

"The European Automobile Manufacturers Association (ACEA) said that EVs accounted for 13.8% of all car sales in May, up from under 10% a year earlier. While petrol cars were still the biggest sellers in May, accounting for 36.5% of the market, together with diesel cars pure fossil-fuel models accounted for under 51% of sales."

So 51% PLUS hybrids (which are fossil fuel cars) is the majority of new sales. It appears that hybrids are about 36% of the market, assuming that light trucks are not in this total number.

So that gives about 87% are fossil fuel cars.

From the numbers you give us it appears that fossil fuel vehicle sales have increased.

Edited June 21, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

25 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Moore's law has no application in this issue, where the best and cheapest mode of personal transport is fossil fuel vehicles and only wild and panic-driven government policies could change the picture and people forced by government fiat to abandon their personal vehicles.

Show me your world numbers on the used car market. Just your own personal say so is not good enough.

You think your own personal say so is enough. 

 

25 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

And still less than a fraction of 1% of the transportation sector. Nothing significant there.

You do know that the majority of all trains in the EU are electric, right?

Regarding main lines, 60% of the European rail network is already electrified and 80% of traffic is running on these lines.

https://alternative-fuels-observatory.ec.europa.eu/transport-mode/rail

Edited June 21, 2023 by Jay McKinsey

[Polyphia + 83]

3 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Well, that is clearly hyperbole, with 93% of the used market still fossil fuel cars, according to this report.

And 100% of the rail, airplane, trucking, shipping industries fossil fuel.

Transportation is still close to completely fossil fuel.

And with the Climate Panic receding, this trend will continue.

I see you did not mention buses. See below.

https://www.supplychainbrain.com/articles/37441-in-the-race-to-electrification-the-humble-bus-is-in-the-lead#:~:text=All over the world%2C buses,seventh annual Electric Vehicle Outlook.

"By 2032, about half of the world’s buses will be entirely battery-powered as will almost three out of four buses sold, according to BloombergNEF’s seventh annual Electric Vehicle Outlook."

[Ecocharger + 1,473]

16 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

You think your own personal say so is enough. 

 

You do know that the majority of all trains in the EU are electric, right?

Regarding main lines, 60% of the European rail network is already electrified and 80% of traffic is running on these lines.

https://alternative-fuels-observatory.ec.europa.eu/transport-mode/rail

Electric trains run across the North American continent and Russia?

Freight trains in the EU are electric? Are you in touch with reality?

In terms of volume/miles, fossil fuel trains dominate both Europe and everywhere else in the world.

You seem to have trouble with your own material.

"The European Automobile Manufacturers Association (ACEA) said that EVs accounted for 13.8% of all car sales in May, up from under 10% a year earlier. While petrol cars were still the biggest sellers in May, accounting for 36.5% of the market, together with diesel cars pure fossil-fuel models accounted for under 51% of sales."

So 51% PLUS hybrids (which are fossil fuel cars) is the majority of new sales.

So about 87% are fossil fuel car sales.

From the numbers you give us it appears that fossil fuel vehicle sales have increased.

Edited June 21, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,473]

9 minutes ago, Polyphia said:

I see you did not mention buses. See below.

https://www.supplychainbrain.com/articles/37441-in-the-race-to-electrification-the-humble-bus-is-in-the-lead#:~:text=All over the world%2C buses,seventh annual Electric Vehicle Outlook.

"By 2032, about half of the world’s buses will be entirely battery-powered as will almost three out of four buses sold, according to BloombergNEF’s seventh annual Electric Vehicle Outlook."

Inter-city and travel buses are EV? What universe are you inhabiting, old boy?

Your prediction is into the next decade, as of now fossil fuel buses are dominant.

You seem to have trouble with your own material.

 

Edited June 21, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

2 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Electric trains run across the North American continent and Russia?

Freight trains in the EU are electric? Are you in touch with reality?

In terms of volume/miles, fossil fuel trains dominate both Europe and everywhere else in the world.

80% of European rail traffic is electric. I just provided you the evidence. I dare say you are the one struggling with reality.

[Ecocharger + 1,473]

7 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

80% of European rail traffic is electric. I just provided you the evidence. I dare say you are the one struggling with reality.

I challenged you on freight traffic and you folded...that's okay Jay, I do not expect rational discussion with you on this topic.

By the way, I also challenged you on this,

You seem to have trouble with your own material.

"The European Automobile Manufacturers Association (ACEA) said that EVs accounted for 13.8% of all car sales in May, up from under 10% a year earlier. While petrol cars were still the biggest sellers in May, accounting for 36.5% of the market, together with diesel cars pure fossil-fuel models accounted for under 51% of sales."

So 51% PLUS hybrids (which are fossil fuel cars) is the majority of new sales.

So about 87% are fossil fuel car sales.

From the numbers you give us it appears that fossil fuel vehicle sales have increased in every category.

Edited June 21, 2023 by Ecocharger

[TailingsPond + 1,007]

7 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Electric trains run across the North American continent and Russia?

Freight trains in the EU are electric? Are you in touch with reality?

In terms of volume/miles, fossil fuel trains dominate both Europe and everywhere else in the world.

He was referring to transportation by train which is largely electric.   Cargo transport is a whole different story and hardly anybody rides a train across the north American continent...

 

[Ecocharger + 1,473]

Just now, TailingsPond said:

He was referring to transportation by train which is largely electric.   Cargo transport is a whole different story and hardly anybody rides a train across the north American continent...

 

Transportation is transportation, buddy. Get the brain in motion.

[TailingsPond + 1,007]

2 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Transportation is transportation, buddy. Get the brain in motion.

Okay passenger transportation.  I call transport of goods shipping.

Edited June 21, 2023 by TailingsPond

[Ecocharger + 1,473]

2 minutes ago, TailingsPond said:

Okay passenger transportation.  I call other transport shipping.

Transportation is transportation...shovel some coal into the burner. Ring the bell.

Edited June 21, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

5 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Transportation is transportation, buddy. Get the brain in motion.

And once again on that note:

Regarding main lines, 60% of the European rail network is already electrified and 80% of traffic is running on these lines.

https://alternative-fuels-observatory.ec.europa.eu/transport-mode/rail

Here are some nice photos of European electric freight trains:

 

 

 

Edited June 21, 2023 by Jay McKinsey

[TailingsPond + 1,007]

1 minute ago, Ecocharger said:

Transportation is transportation...shovel some coal into the burner. Ring the bell.

Okay I will fly in comfort and you ride the cargo train.  You do you. 

[Polyphia + 83]

10 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Inter-city and travel buses are EV? What universe are you inhabiting, old boy?

Your prediction is into the next decade, as of now fossil fuel buses are dominant.

You seem to have trouble with your own material.

 

I always find it fun that you switch the goalposts (and/or misinterpret or overinterpret others' posts). I didn't write anything about inter-city or travel buses. Bloomberg's prediction (not mine) is into the next decade. I didn't write that the percentage of EV buses far outstripped the percentage of FF buses now, but things are headed in that direction, as they are with electric cars, too. You just can't deal with it. 

And don't call me "old boy" again--neither category fits me. 

[Ecocharger + 1,473]

4 minutes ago, TailingsPond said:

Okay I will fly in comfort and you ride the cargo train.  You do you. 

I think that you will support fossil fuel trains to transport the products which you buy.

 

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

8 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

I challenged you on freight traffic and you folded...that's okay Jay, I do not expect rational discussion with you on this topic.

By the way, I also challenged you on this,

You seem to have trouble with your own material.

"The European Automobile Manufacturers Association (ACEA) said that EVs accounted for 13.8% of all car sales in May, up from under 10% a year earlier. While petrol cars were still the biggest sellers in May, accounting for 36.5% of the market, together with diesel cars pure fossil-fuel models accounted for under 51% of sales."

So 51% PLUS hybrids (which are fossil fuel cars) is the majority of new sales.

So about 87% are fossil fuel car sales.

From the numbers you give us it appears that fossil fuel vehicle sales have increased.

You provided no evidence whatsoever for your claims.

Your Europe EV report is the same as mine. EV sales are growing at an exponential rate. In just a few years they will be over 50%. Or would you like to tell us when the EV growth will stop?

[Ecocharger + 1,473]

1 minute ago, Polyphia said:

I always find it fun that you switch the goalposts (and/or misinterpret or overinterpret others' posts). I didn't write anything about inter-city or travel buses. Bloomberg's prediction (not mine) is into the next decade. I didn't write that the percentage of EV buses far outstripped the percentage of FF buses now, but things are headed in that direction, as they are with electric cars, too. You just can't deal with it. 

And don't call me "old boy" again--neither category fits me. 

Perhaps you can quote for us the exact data, not just your general memory.

[Ecocharger + 1,473]

4 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

You provided no evidence whatsoever for your claims.

Your Europe EV report is the same as mine. EV sales are growing at an exponential rate. In just a few years they will be over 50%. Or would you like to tell us when the EV growth will stop?

Of course it is your own article, that is the point, old boy.

You have a problem with your own data, as I pointed out to you.

You seem to have trouble with your own material.

"The European Automobile Manufacturers Association (ACEA) said that EVs accounted for 13.8% of all car sales in May, up from under 10% a year earlier. While petrol cars were still the biggest sellers in May, accounting for 36.5% of the market, together with diesel cars pure fossil-fuel models accounted for under 51% of sales."

So 51% PLUS hybrids (which are fossil fuel cars) is the majority of new sales.

So about 87% are fossil fuel car sales.

From the numbers you give us it appears that fossil fuel vehicle sales have increased in every category.

Using Moore's law, fossil fuel vehicles will dominate.

Actually, no economist would use Moore's law for fluctuating product markets, that is silly.

 

Edited June 21, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

Just now, Ecocharger said:

Of course it is your own article that is the point, old boy.

You have a problem with your own data, as I pointed out to you.

You seem to have trouble with your own material.

"The European Automobile Manufacturers Association (ACEA) said that EVs accounted for 13.8% of all car sales in May, up from under 10% a year earlier. While petrol cars were still the biggest sellers in May, accounting for 36.5% of the market, together with diesel cars pure fossil-fuel models accounted for under 51% of sales."

So 51% PLUS hybrids (which are fossil fuel cars) is the majority of new sales.

So about 87% are fossil fuel car sales.

From the numbers you give us it appears that fossil fuel vehicle sales have increased.

 

Yes you are bad at math. 

First though I will note that you have collapsed on my challenge of electric train traffic in Europe, you are just spouting nonsense with your claims to the contrary.

Sales of EVs grew significantly more than FF thus increasing EV market share to 13.8% of all car sales in May, up from under 10% a year earlier. EVs growing faster means that they are overtaking FF. That is how math works.

[Ecocharger + 1,473]

4 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Yes you are bad at math. 

First though I will note that you have collapsed on my challenge of electric train traffic in Europe, you are just spouting nonsense with your claims to the contrary.

Sales of EVs grew significantly more than FF thus increasing EV market share to 13.8% of all car sales in May, up from under 10% a year earlier. EVs growing faster means that they are overtaking FF. That is how math works.

And fossil fuel vehicle sales GREW, despite the massive and panic driven climate programs against fossil fuel vehicles.

So applying Moore' s Law of growth to the fossil fuel sector, we have massive numbers of new fossil fuel vehicles coming forward.

87% of new vehicle sales in Europe for personal transport are fossil fuel.

Your own numbers, old boy.

No, I am still waiting for your numbers on electrified rail freight for Europe. If you have them, let us see.

Edited June 21, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

13 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

And fossil fuel vehicle sales GREW, despite the massive and panic driven climate programs against fossil fuel vehicles.

So applying Moore' s Law of growth to the fossil fuel sector, we have massive numbers of new fossil fuel vehicles coming forward.

87% of new vehicle sales in Europe for personal transport are fossil fuel.

Your own numbers, old boy.

Moore's Law is a CAGR of 42%. EV sales grew at almost twice that rate and Petrol car sales grew at less than a third that rate. You clearly don't understand Moore's Law. This is from your link:

Last month, new registrations of battery electric cars in the EU experienced a significant boost, rising by 70.9% to reach 129,847 units. This equates to a market share of 13.8%, and a four-percentage-point increase compared to May 2022.

In May, the EU market for petrol cars grew by 12.6% to reach 342,806 units. Despite this, market share stood at 36.5%, nearly two percentage points less than in May 2022. 

Your link:

https://www.acea.auto/pc-registrations/new-car-registrations-18-5-in-may-battery-electric-13-8-market-share/

Edited June 21, 2023 by Jay McKinsey