E-car Sales Collapse

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

12 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

No, it is bad public policy driven by mindless climate panic. The result is suboptimal social policy.

Anytime demagogues create panic in order to stampede the public, you can be sure that the final product is a disaster for your pocketbook.

This project is is waste of taxpayer money and is designed to destroy the standard of living of average Americans.

Yes, I expect the Democrats to cause more trouble for middle class Americans, Thank you.

HaHa! Yeah as massive investment flows into the US, building factories and infrastructure reclaiming jobs and business that previously went to China. 

IRA and CHIPS Act bringing manufacturing back to the US

According to Financial Times, in 2022, when the US government passed the Inflation Reduction Act (IRA) and the CHIPS Act, investments in semiconductor and clean tech in the US more than doubled than that in the previous year to US$200 billion, with projects worth more than US$1 billion rising multifold from four in 2019 to 31 after August 2022.

 

 

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

2 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

HaHa! Yeah as massive investment flows into the US, building factories and infrastructure reclaiming jobs and business that previously went to China. 

IRA and CHIPS Act bringing manufacturing back to the US

According to Financial Times, in 2022, when the US government passed the Inflation Reduction Act (IRA) and the CHIPS Act, investments in semiconductor and clean tech in the US more than doubled than that in the previous year to US$200 billion, with projects worth more than US$1 billion rising multifold from four in 2019 to 31 after August 2022.

 

 

Jay, I pity you. You seem to lack even the most basic training in the principles of international trade.

International trade maximizes the economic welfare of all Americans and increases the standard of  living for the poorest citizens.

Sure, taxpayer's money can be wasted on misplaced investments and the standard of living for poor Americans can be destroyed.

But that is a suboptimal allocation of productive resources, which is best left to the marketplace to decide.

If you are trying to tell me that Democrats are specialists in wasting public money, I would agree with you, it is obvious.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

51 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Jay, I pity you. You seem to lack even the most basic training in the principles of international trade.

International trade maximizes the economic welfare of all Americans and increases the standard of  living for the poorest citizens.

Sure, taxpayer's money can be wasted on misplaced investments and the standard of living for poor Americans can be destroyed.

But that is a suboptimal allocation of productive resources, which is best left to the marketplace to decide.

If you are trying to tell me that Democrats are specialists in wasting public money, I would agree with you, it is obvious.

You are such a globalist. The US economy is doing great and China is about to collapse.

The lowest opportunity cost for these goods is now in the US and our trade alliance.  Ricardian comparative advantage is thus satisfied.

China's Rebound Hits a Wall, and There Is 'No Quick Fix' to Revive It

Policymakers and investors expected China's economy to rev up again after Beijing abruptly dropped Covid precautions, but recent data shows...

.

4 days agoYou are such the globalist! 

[turbguy + 1,543]

11 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Of course, this is a government program using taxpayer's money, not a free market development.

That is the problem.

If the USA truly had free markets, business practices to reduce competition and raise a commodity's price would be unconstrained.

Such as the common practice that goes on in the illicit "recreational chemical" industry.  MURDER!

Edited June 24, 2023 by turbguy

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

1 hour ago, Jay McKinsey said:

You are such a globalist. The US economy is doing great and China is about to collapse.

The lowest opportunity cost for these goods is now in the US and our trade alliance.  Ricardian comparative advantage is thus satisfied.

China's Rebound Hits a Wall, and There Is 'No Quick Fix' to Revive It

Policymakers and investors expected China's economy to rev up again after Beijing abruptly dropped Covid precautions, but recent data shows...

.

4 days agoYou are such the globalist! 

Jay, you must have skipped International Trade, whenever a government distorts prices and trade flows, trade relations are disrupted and the optimal income production value is thrown off and reduced. That is just standard economics, which you apparently did not bother to learn.

You seem to be stuck with the days of Smoot-Hawley in the age before a more rational trade policy was designed. The principal victims of trade barriers are poor Americans who are forced to pay distorted high prices for their basic necessities.

That is just dumb old short-sighted self-inflicted economic pain. Your specialty.

Edited June 24, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

17 minutes ago, turbguy said:

If the USA truly had free markets, business practices to reduce competition and raise a commodity's price would be unconstrained.

Such as the common practice that go on in the illicit "recreational chemical" industry.  MURDER!

No, you must have skipped Industrial Policy courses in your training.

Markets can still be competitive provided that barriers to entry are minimum. That restricts predatory pricing practices.

When a government intervenes and imposes a state-controlled monopoly on an industry, then you should worry about predatory behaviour.

[turbguy + 1,543]

4 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

No, you must have skipped Industrial Policy courses in your training.

Markets can still be competitive provided that barriers to entry are minimum. That restricts predatory pricing practices.

When a government intervenes and imposes a state-controlled monopoly on an industry, then you should worry about predatory behaviour.

The illicit drug industry "don't need no stink'in Industrial Policy".

Tell me, who has complete control of the federal roads in your state?

Edited June 24, 2023 by turbguy

[TailingsPond + 1,007]

On 6/22/2023 at 1:19 AM, specinho said:

 

People stuck in traffic daily, to and back from work.

If an average 400 km range gives battery 4 hours lifespan, they will need to charge their cars two three times a day depends on their job function.

Imagine if millions of workers in a city need to charge their EVs two three times a day... 

 

A stopped EV uses very little energy.   I assure you that you can park an EV for more than 4 hours at it will still be charged....

 

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

11 hours ago, turbguy said:

The illicit drug industry "don't need no stink'in Industrial Policy".

Tell me, who has complete control of the federal roads in your state?

You want private roads? That is eighteenth century style. The roads serve both travel and commerce, so there is an argument for public spending on roads.

Black market is off the discussion. There is no argument for it.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

11 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

A stopped EV uses very little energy.   I assure you that you can park an EV for more than 4 hours at it will still be charged....

 

EVs need recharging in relatively short-range road trips, very inconvenient. Slow.

Edited June 24, 2023 by Ecocharger

[turbguy + 1,543]

7 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

You want private roads? That is eighteenth century style. The roads serve both travel and commerce, so there is an argument for public spending on roads.

Black market is off the discussion. There is no argument for it.

And electricity doesn't serve both travel and commerce?

And Fossil resources don't serve both travel and commerce?

I guess there's an argument for public spending on those, as well...

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

5 hours ago, turbguy said:

And electricity doesn't serve both travel and commerce?

Of course not, Green Energy has failed across every continent it has embraced. The technology does not exist to make it substantial,nor is there enough funding to develop Green Energy in it's current form. 

Quietly world leaders are moving back to traditional sources of reliable sustainable energy, hopefully those stricken countries still have access to the needed funding.

Best Regards

EWO

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Edited June 24, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open

[notsonice + 1,255]

5 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

EVs need recharging in relatively short-range road trips, very inconvenient. Slow.

Gas Vehicles always  need refueling at gas stations (not at your home)  in relatively short-range road trips (every 250 miles), very inconvenient. Slow.

EVs can be recharged at your home for less than $10 for every 250 miles travelled  ....very convenient for short range road trips  (less than 250 mile round trips that are 99 percent of all travel)

 

Unless you are one of those people that love to hang out in gas stations drinking big gulps and paying $40 to 60 to  refuel for every 250 miles travelled 

[notsonice + 1,255]

4 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Of course not, Green Energy has failed across every continent it has embraced. The technology does not exist,nor is there enough funding to develop Green Energy in it's current form. 

Quietly world leaders are moving back to traditional sources of reliable sustainable energy, hopefully those stricken countries still have access to the needed funding.

Best Regards

EWO

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

sources of reliable sustainable energy????

you do know that any form of sustainable energy does not include oil found in the earth  coal or nat gas found in the earth

 

Sustainable energy is derived from resources that can maintain current operations without jeopardizing the energy needs or climate of future generations. The most popular sources of sustainable energy, including wind, solar and hydropower, are also renewable.Jul 2, 2021

https://energy.sais.jhu.edu/articles/renewable-energy-vs-sustainable-energy/#:~:text=Sustainable energy is derived from,and hydropower%2C are also renewable.

 

Edited June 24, 2023 by notsonice

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

5 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

You want private roads? That is eighteenth century style. The roads serve both travel and commerce, so there is an argument for public spending on roads.

Black market is off the discussion. There is no argument for it.

The black market is the direct evidence that destroy's your position. So of course you don't want to talk about it.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

17 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Jay, you must have skipped International Trade, whenever a government distorts prices and trade flows, trade relations are disrupted and the optimal income production value is thrown off and reduced. That is just standard economics, which you apparently did not bother to learn.

You seem to be stuck with the days of Smoot-Hawley in the age before a more rational trade policy was designed. The principal victims of trade barriers are poor Americans who are forced to pay distorted high prices for their basic necessities.

That is just dumb old short-sighted self-inflicted economic pain. Your specialty.

Being dependent on an antagonistic country that doesn't want to play fair changes the entire calculus and eliminates the validity of your argument. 

China has peaked. It is all downhill for them from here.

Edited June 24, 2023 by Jay McKinsey

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

5 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Of course not, Green Energy has failed across every continent it has embraced. The technology does not exist,nor is there enough funding to develop Green Energy in it's current form. 

Quietly world leaders are moving back to traditional sources of reliable sustainable energy, hopefully those stricken countries still have access to the needed funding.

Best Regards

EWO

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

I guess you better tell the Texans:

March 15 - Texas will continue to lead U.S. solar growth in the coming years...

The U.S. Energy Information Administration predicts Texas will install 7.7 GW of solar this year, a quarter of all U.S. installations. Some 36 GW in new capacity is expected in Texas in the next five years, according to the U.S. Solar Energy Industry Association (SEIA).

Edited June 24, 2023 by Jay McKinsey

[Boat + 1,324]

40 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Being dependent on an antagonistic country that doesn't want to play fair changes the entire calculus and eliminates the validity of your argument. 

China has peaked. It is all downhill for them from here.

I think XI agrees with you and wants a decoupling with fair trade. To much money for the population breeds independence of thought. The CCP is not a big fan of free thought. Their ideology is retreating and retrenching to get a firmer grasp of control. They see Russia and don’t want to follow in their footsteps. 

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

37 minutes ago, Boat said:

I think XI agrees with you and wants a decoupling with fair trade. To much money for the population breeds independence of thought. The CCP is not a big fan of free thought. Their ideology is retreating and retrenching to get a firmer grasp of control. They see Russia and don’t want to follow in their footsteps. 

Yes, Xi's great goal is to turn China into a self sufficient economy. They aren't even close and have no chance of getting there between demographics and their utterly corrupt and screwed up domestic economy.

For example their domestic economy depends very much on the value of housing for living and investing. This created a huge savings rate but for a self sufficient consumer economy they need to decrease the savings rate and increase the consumption rate. These are mutually exclusive and contradictory goals.

Edited June 24, 2023 by Jay McKinsey

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

1 hour ago, notsonice said:

Gas Vehicles always  need refueling at gas stations (not at your home)  in relatively short-range road trips (every 250 miles), very inconvenient. Slow.

EVs can be recharged at your home for less than $10 for every 250 miles travelled  ....very convenient for short range road trips  (less than 250 mile round trips that are 99 percent of all travel)

 

Unless you are one of those people that love to hang out in gas stations drinking big gulps and paying $40 to 60 to  refuel for every 250 miles travelled 

When you are on the road, you are not at home. A decent road trip is risky when you cannot recharge in a mountain area.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

3 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Yes, Xi's great goal is to turn China into a self sufficient economy. They aren't even close and have no chance of getting there between demographics and their utterly corrupt and screwed up domestic economy.

For example their domestic economy depends very much on the value of housing for living and investing. This created a huge savings rate but for a self sufficient consumer economy they need to decrease the savings rate and increase the consumption rate. These are mutually exclusive and contradictory goals.

The idea of self-sufficiency is a foolish dream no country is economically self-sufficient.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

European demand for diesel is still strong.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/Diesel-Demand-Defies-Recession-Fears.html

"Commodity traders are increasingly investing in middle distillate futures, fueled by a global shortage, even as they sell off crude oil futures.

China's diesel exports quadrupled in May, reflecting robust global demand for distillate fuels despite weaker domestic demand, and this is encouraging a strong appetite among traders for fuel purchases.

Despite an economic slowdown and concerns about a recession, distillate fuel stocks remain low, and demand remains high."

"Reuters’ Kemp again noted that in a recent column, noting that distillate stocks in Europe were 32 million barrels higher at the end of May than the trough they’d reached a year ago but that they were still 32 million barrels below the 10-year seasonal average.

In the United States, Kemp reported, distillate stocks were 5 million barrels higher now than a year ago, but they were 22 million barrels lower than the 10-year average for this time of the year.

At the same time, the U.S. Energy Information Administration said that diesel fuel consumption in the United States, except the West Coast, had climbed above the 10-year maximum in March. The exception was attributed to greater biodiesel consumption on the West Coast rather than lower demand."

Edited June 24, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

1 hour ago, Jay McKinsey said:

I guess you better tell the Texans:

March 15 - Texas will continue to lead U.S. solar growth in the coming years...

The U.S. Energy Information Administration predicts Texas will install 7.7 GW of solar this year, a quarter of all U.S. installations. Some 36 GW in new capacity is expected in Texas in the next five years, according to the U.S. Solar Energy Industry Association (SEIA).

Waste of public money.

 

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

33 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

The idea of self-sufficiency is a foolish dream no country is economically self-sufficient.

The US is 74% self sufficient and most of our trade is with our trading alliance.

In 2021, imports of goods and services amounted to around 14.59 percent of U.S. gross domestic product.Jun 15, 2023

In 2021, exports of goods and services from the United States made up about 10.89 percent of its gross domestic product (GDP). 

China is much lower at 63% self sufficient. Trade is only beneficial up to a point, beyond that point it becomes a net negative. 

China trade to gdp ratio for 2021 was 37.47%, a 2.71% increase from 2020.

 

Edited June 24, 2023 by Jay McKinsey

[turbguy + 1,543]

8 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Waste of public money.

 

Since it supports commerce, I guess expenditure of public finds can find some justification.