specinho + 475 October 18 22 hours ago, TailingsPond said: You can buy way nicer RVs and limos than that. It is a comparison between old design and new. RV might be more suitable for long distance trip or used as mobile house. Not so much for prestige daily/weekly/monthly/yearly usage or for welcoming visiting guest(s) like Rolls Royce. Not sure if it is true in different places but usage of limo over here is limited by parking space and convenience to make a turn. Hence, it is generally seen only at the final send off progression of people with respected social status. There is no way to compare old design and new since the back is always in one form. 'o' <_> Â Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,266 DM October 18 Batteries prices keep dropping through the floor and at the same time the energy density (WH/KG) keeps increasing at a double digit percentage per year...IE Overall EV weight is dropping with longer ranges per charge and faster charging rates keeps increasing  IE the batteries (LFP) that are now coming to the market in 2025 (oh 2025 is just a few months away) have energy densities of 300wh/kg and 300 watt-hours gets you one mile ....so now EV batteries will drop in weight from 400 kg for a 80 kw-hour (270 mile range) These newer batteries will weigh only 270 KG for the same range...........EVs are now going to be same overall weight  comparable to the same sized clunker....Oh my batteries plus the electric motor are now going to be the same weight as a clunker motor (remember Luddites ....Clunker motors are made typically of Cast Iron (same materials that boat anchors are made of)  Clunkers are doomed  Goldman Sachs Electric vehicle battery prices are expected to fall almost 50% by 2026 Technology advances that have allowed electric vehicle battery makers to increase energy density, combined with a drop in green metal prices... . Electrek Hyundai wants to develop industry-leading 300Wh/kg LFP batteries for affordable EVs To be the best, you must beat the best. Hyundai Motor is developing ultra-high-capacity LFP batteries to power upcoming low-cost Hyundai and... . 3 days ago  1 week ago  Investing News Network Altech Batteries Ltd Breakthrough 55% Higher Energy Density Anodes Perth, Australia - Altech Batteries Limited has achieved a remarkable milestone in its Silumina AnodesTM battery material technology. . 1 day ago Electrek Hyundai wants to develop industry-leading 300Wh/kg LFP batteries for affordable EVs To be the best, you must beat the best. Hyundai Motor is developing ultra-high-capacity LFP batteries to power upcoming low-cost Hyundai and... . 3 days ago 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,485 DL October 23 On 10/18/2024 at 1:51 PM, notsonice said: Batteries prices keep dropping through the floor and at the same time the energy density (WH/KG) keeps increasing at a double digit percentage per year...IE Overall EV weight is dropping with longer ranges per charge and faster charging rates keeps increasing  IE the batteries (LFP) that are now coming to the market in 2025 (oh 2025 is just a few months away) have energy densities of 300wh/kg and 300 watt-hours gets you one mile ....so now EV batteries will drop in weight from 400 kg for a 80 kw-hour (270 mile range) These newer batteries will weigh only 270 KG for the same range...........EVs are now going to be same overall weight  comparable to the same sized clunker....Oh my batteries plus the electric motor are now going to be the same weight as a clunker motor (remember Luddites ....Clunker motors are made typically of Cast Iron (same materials that boat anchors are made of)  Clunkers are doomed  Goldman Sachs Electric vehicle battery prices are expected to fall almost 50% by 2026 Technology advances that have allowed electric vehicle battery makers to increase energy density, combined with a drop in green metal prices... . Electrek Hyundai wants to develop industry-leading 300Wh/kg LFP batteries for affordable EVs To be the best, you must beat the best. Hyundai Motor is developing ultra-high-capacity LFP batteries to power upcoming low-cost Hyundai and... . 3 days ago  1 week ago  Investing News Network Altech Batteries Ltd Breakthrough 55% Higher Energy Density Anodes Perth, Australia - Altech Batteries Limited has achieved a remarkable milestone in its Silumina AnodesTM battery material technology. . 1 day ago Electrek Hyundai wants to develop industry-leading 300Wh/kg LFP batteries for affordable EVs To be the best, you must beat the best. Hyundai Motor is developing ultra-high-capacity LFP batteries to power upcoming low-cost Hyundai and... . 3 days ago "Are expected"..."are expected"..."are expected"...funny how those expectations never come to fruition. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turbguy + 1,553 October 23 (edited) 9 hours ago, Ecocharger said: "Are expected"..."are expected"..."are expected"...funny how those expectations never come to fruition. "You ain't seen nothin' yet" appears to apply. IMO, batteries are at a comparable technological stage of when manufactures were finally able to cast a relatively defect-free cast iron engine block,,and begin to make a profit. Edited October 23 by turbguy 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,266 DM October 23 3 hours ago, Ecocharger said: "Are expected"..."are expected"..."are expected"...funny how those expectations never come to fruition. funny how you are never right try this chart on for size........notice how the price dropped in half in just one year Luddite, try to keep up with what is happening  1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,485 DL October 23 (edited) Just now, notsonice said: funny how you are never right try this chart on for size........notice how the price dropped in half in just one year Luddite, try to keep up with what is happening  Prices fell because of the lack of demand and the buildup of unsold product...funny how that happens. Edited October 23 by Ecocharger 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,013 GE October 24 1 hour ago, Ecocharger said: Prices fell because of the lack of demand and the buildup of unsold product...funny how that happens. Look at oil prices, then use that same logic. WTI was ~$85 last year and is now ~$71.  1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,485 DL October 24 (edited) 27 minutes ago, TailingsPond said: Look at oil prices, then use that same logic. WTI was ~$85 last year and is now ~$71.  Oil demand is now at an all-time high. Low inventories, unlike the backup in EV sales. I can see that Economics was not your area of study. Edited October 24 by Ecocharger 1 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,013 GE October 24 44 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: Oil demand is now at an all-time high. Low inventories, unlike the backup in EV sales. I can see that Economics was not your area of study. Quit pushing the economics shtick. All I asked was for you to use the same logic for oil as you do anything else. "Prices fell because of the lack of demand and the buildup of unsold product...funny how that happens." WTI was ~$85 last year and is now ~$71. You have an internal conflict where you think oil is in strong demand yet oil prices are falling. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,485 DL October 24 (edited) 14 hours ago, TailingsPond said: Quit pushing the economics shtick. All I asked was for you to use the same logic for oil as you do anything else. "Prices fell because of the lack of demand and the buildup of unsold product...funny how that happens." WTI was ~$85 last year and is now ~$71. You have an internal conflict where you think oil is in strong demand yet oil prices are falling. You obviously lack any training in Economics, final price is reliant not just on demand but also on supply. Edited October 24 by Ecocharger 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,013 GE October 24 (edited) 6 hours ago, Ecocharger said: You obviously lack any training in Economics, final price is reliant not just on demand but also on supply. All I asked was for you to use the same logic for oil as you do anything else. "Prices fell because of the lack of demand and the buildup of unsold product...funny how that happens." WTI was ~$85 last year and is now ~$71. Supply was in the quote of yours I mentioned. Use the same logic for oil! Edited October 24 by TailingsPond 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,013 GE October 24 (edited) 22 hours ago, Ecocharger said: Oil demand is now at an all-time high. Low inventories, unlike the backup in EV sales. I can see that Economics was not your area of study. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Prices/Saudi-Oil-Export-Revenues-Hit-Three-Year-Low-as-Prices-Decline.html Three year low, price decline. "The decline was primarily driven by lower oil prices and weaker global demand, particularly in China." Meanwhile Tesla records large profits. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Teslas-Profit-Surge-Signals-End-of-Price-War.html Tesla's Q3 results exceeded expectations, with a significant increase in profit margins driven by lower costs and strong performance in the energy business. I'm glad I didn't study economics at your school, or in general - I got a degree in a real science. Edited October 24 by TailingsPond 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,013 GE October 24 Tesla up 21.9% in One Day! +60% in last 6 months. OXY petroleum up 0.06% today, -23.7% last 6 months. Tell me more about your economics education and how gas is beating EVs. Let me explain that for you; an investment in Tesla 6 months ago would be way up, the same investment in oil would be way down. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,485 DL October 25 (edited) 48 minutes ago, TailingsPond said: Tesla up 21.9% in One Day! +60% in last 6 months. OXY petroleum up 0.06% today, -23.7% last 6 months. Tell me more about your economics education and how gas is beating EVs. Let me explain that for you; an investment in Tesla 6 months ago would be way up, the same investment in oil would be way down. Production for oil is up this year to another all-time high with a higher level of demand and lower inventory levels, while EVs are piling up on inventories. Even a non-economist like yourself should be able to understand that. Edited October 25 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,013 GE October 25 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: Production for oil is up this year to another all-time high with a higher level of demand and lower inventory levels, while EVs are piling up on inventories. Even a non-economist like yourself should be able to understand that. Is production or profit the goal? Many sources say demand is down, many sources. I showed you current market data, it is not my opinion or "someday soon" - right now EV stocks are way up and oil is down; try not to ignore reality. Edited October 25 by TailingsPond 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,013 GE October 25 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: Production for oil is up this year to another all-time high with a higher level of demand and lower inventory levels, while EVs are piling up on inventories. Even a non-economist like yourself should be able to understand that. Are you seriously going to pretend Tesla's Q3 report doesn't exist? It was so great it induced a massive increase in investment in the company. All those investors think there is a future for EVs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar_voting  Edited October 25 by TailingsPond 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specinho + 475 October 25 (edited) 4 hours ago, TailingsPond said: https://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Prices/Saudi-Oil-Export-Revenues-Hit-Three-Year-Low-as-Prices-Decline.html Three year low, price decline. "The decline was primarily driven by lower oil prices and weaker global demand, particularly in China." Meanwhile Tesla records large profits. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Teslas-Profit-Surge-Signals-End-of-Price-War.html Tesla's Q3 results exceeded expectations, with a significant increase in profit margins driven by lower costs and strong performance in the energy business. I'm glad I didn't study economics at your school, or in general - I got a degree in a real science. - when you are reading report by Tesla, you need to understand what it is actually saying behind the confusing terms used... 1. Tesla expects to achieve slight growth in vehicle deliveries in 2024.  Note: This might mean tesla is still delivering what was ordered, not new sales. Remember it takes 3-5 years to receive Tesla booked? 2. Our company is currently between two major growth waves: the first one began with the global expansion of the Model 3/Y platform and we believe the next one will be initiated by advances in autonomy and introduction of new products, including those built on our next generation vehicle platform. Note: Tesla mentioned model 3 would be phased out soon, due to lower profit margin obtained, few weeks ago? - introduction of new products could be costly, especially if they can not be sold... 3. Revenue $25.18 billion Gross margin ex-credit 19.8% Operating income $2.72 billion Free cash flow $2.74 billion Capital expenditure $3.51 billion Note: what do they mean? 'n' a) gross margin ex-credit = revenue minus previously recorded sales or credit? - ~ $25 b x 20/100 = 5 billion? b) revenue = income - operating income = revenue - expenditure? - how could cash > income? c) capital expenditure = interest of loans? - if net profit = gross operating profit - capital expenditure etc, how much is net profit then? d) tesla stock rises is good. Try cash out?? Edited October 25 by specinho Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,013 GE October 25 (edited) 29 minutes ago, specinho said: - when you are reading report by Tesla, you need to understand what it is actually saying behind the sugar coating... You need to understand that the market price is not some media sugar coating. The stock price is not reported by Tesla man - it is what people are buying it at. Real numbers, not speculation. Edited October 25 by TailingsPond 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,013 GE October 25 https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=telsa+stock+price 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP October 25 15 hours ago, Ecocharger said: You obviously lack any training in Economics, final price is reliant not just on demand but also on supply. Eco you make yourself look extremely foolish with comments like this. You cannot argue against your own statements and look credible yo anyone! Tailingspond has got your number thats for sure! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,266 DM October 25 On 10/23/2024 at 7:12 PM, Ecocharger said: Oil demand is now at an all-time high. Low inventories, unlike the backup in EV sales. I can see that Economics was not your area of study. unlike the backup in EV sales.???? funny how you never back up your Luddite BS........why don't you???? pretty hard to back up your lies????? you buy into the lies because it is all you have??? let me guess you are aligned with anti-ev political forces that deny that climate change is happening as these forces just want to sell coal and these forces will lie over and over that EV sales are down, despite that they continue to rise. read the following article , enjoy  https://electrek.co/2024/10/24/ev-sales-have-not-fallen-cooled-slowed-or-slumped-stop-lying-in-headlines/ EV sales have not fallen, cooled, slowed or slumped. Stop lying in headlines. EV sales continue to rise, but the last year of headlines falsely stating otherwise would leave you thinking they haven’t. After about full year of these lies, it would be nice for journalists to stop pushing this false narrative that they could find the truth behind by simply looking up a single number for once. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,266 DM October 25 for the form Luddites that live in Denial  CleanTechnica New & Used EV Sales Were Up In September In USA EV sales were 9 percent of total new car sales in the US in September. Cox Automotive expects the to crack the 10 percent barrier soon.  Reuters Global EV sales up 30.5% in September as China shines, Europe recuperates EV cars are pictured inside BYD's first electric vehicle (EV) factory in Southeast Asia, a fast-growing regional EV market where it has... . 1 week ago   Motor1.com GM's EV Sales Are Booming General Motors ended Q3 2024 with record-setting sales for EVs. They are up 60 percent compared to last year, with more new models coming... . 1 week ago Cox Automotive Inc. Electric Vehicle Sales Mark Another Record in Q3, Thanks to Higher Incentives, More Choices According to new estimates from Kelley Blue Book, electric vehicle (EV) sales in the U.S. grew by 11% year over year in the third quarter... . 2 weeks ago . 1 day ago Autoblog Volvo's cheapest EV is already putting up red-hot sales numbers With an extremely attractive price tag and competitive specs, the Volvo EX30 is already impacting the international EV market – just a year... . 3 days ago Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,485 DL October 26 (edited) 18 hours ago, Rob Plant said: Eco you make yourself look extremely foolish with comments like this. You cannot argue against your own statements and look credible yo anyone! Tailingspond has got your number thats for sure! Rob you are off again...try and control yourself. Give us something of substance. If you can. Edited October 26 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,485 DL October 26 (edited) On 10/24/2024 at 9:22 PM, TailingsPond said: Are you seriously going to pretend Tesla's Q3 report doesn't exist? It was so great it induced a massive increase in investment in the company. All those investors think there is a future for EVs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar_voting  I guess you pressed the wrong button, old boy. There is nothing in your link which could support your statements. Another "faux economics" moment? Edited October 26 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,013 GE October 26 24 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: I guess you pressed the wrong button, old boy. There is nothing in your link which could support your statements. Another "faux economics" moment? If you have a problem with the link take it up with the authors. Haha. Why do you ignore the Tesla Q3 results and the resultant massive investment in the EV market? If you wish to continue to say EVs are done you need to address the current situation. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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