Russian Officials Voice Concerns About Chinese-Funded Rail Line

[Ron Wagner + 714]

https://www.theepochtimes.com/russian-officials-voice-concerns-about-chinese-funded-rail_2753913.html?ea_src=ai&ea_med=search

Russian Officials Voice Concerns About Chinese-Funded Rail Line

Russian President Vladimir Putin (R) and Finance Minister Anton Siluanov chat during a meeting of the Supreme Eurasian Economic Council in Saint Petersburg on Dec. 6, 2018. (Olga Maltseva/AFP/Getty Images)

By Frank Fang

January 1, 2019Updated: January 1, 2019

biggersmaller 

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Russia is strongly questioning a railway project that it previously agreed to build with China.

The proposed Moscow–Kazan high-speed railway—more than 700 kilometers (435 miles) in length going from Russia’s capital to Kazan, Tatarstan, in one of Russia’s autonomous states—is considered a significant part of Beijing’s ambitions to build global trade routes.

The railway will pass through several Russian cities, including Vladimir, Nizhny Novgorod, and Cheboksary.

But Anton Siluanov, Russia’s finance minister and first deputy prime minister, recently expressed his skepticism of the project, saying that he believes it isn’t economically feasible, according to a Dec. 25 article by Russian daily newspaper Kommersant.

 

Siluanov said this kind of project is usually built in areas with a large populace. However, the cities where the proposed rail will pass through have populations slightly over a million—far smaller than major cities such as St. Petersburg, with almost five million people.

Another reason that the project makes no economic sense is that there are existing air travel options between Moscow and Kazan that would be faster than any high-speed rail between the two cities, Siluanov said.

Moscow–Kazan Rail

The Moscow–Kazan line is part of an ambitious transnational railway of more than 7,000 kilometers (4,350 miles) connecting Moscow and Beijing, with Russian media estimating that the total cost of building such a rail will be about 7 trillion rubles (about $100 billion).

Currently, there is an existing conventional railway linking Beijing and Kazan, and Kazan with Moscow. But while it currently takes 14 hours to travel between Moscow and Kazan, the proposed high-speed rail will cut the trip to about 3.5 hours. The Kazan-to-Beijing rail currently takes more than 4 days for the trip; the proposed high-speed rail from Beijing to Moscow would make the entire trip in just 2 days.

According to the Russian magazine Russia Briefing, the high-speed rail will go through Mongolia’s capital, Ulaanbaatar, connect to the Siberian cities of Chita, Irkutsk, and Ulan-Ude, then Kazan and Moscow. The rail will be part of a transportation system that links to railways leading to Europe.

Siluanov said that it would be unprofitable to use the proposed rail to transport goods to and from China, compared to transportation by sea or conventional railway.

The idea to build a Moscow–Kazan high-speed rail was first suggested by Russian President Vladimir Putin in 2013, with the goal of completing the rail by 2018, when Kazan, among a number of other Russian cities, was slated to host the 2018 FIFA World Cup. Soccer fans could take the rail to see games at Kazan, according to Russian media. However, the line wasn’t built in time.

According to the official website of the Council under the President of the Russian Federation, a state consultative agency, Russia had troubling securing financing to pay for the project. Eventually, Russia determined that the project was only viable with Chinese funding—the rail being built as part of China’s Eurasia project to built up land transportation links between China and Europe.

The Eurasia project is part of China’s One Belt, One Road (OBOR, also known as Belt and Road) initiative, an aggressive plan to build up trade routes linking China, Southeast Asia, Africa, Europe, and Latin America. For Beijing, it’s also an exercise to bolster geopolitical influence through financing infrastructure projects in over 60 countries.

The Moscow-Kazan rail effort advanced when Chinese Premier Li Keqiang and then-Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev signed a memorandum of cooperation in October 2014 to build the railway, according to the official website of China’s State Council.

In 2015, the Moscow–Kazan line became part of China’s official policy when the National Development and Reform Commission, Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and Ministry of Commerce published updated plans under OBOR. The plans listed a set of measures and targets for different regions within China to undertake. The goal for Beijing was to build up a “high-speed transportation corridor linking Beijing and Moscow,” constructing an “important window to the North.”

According to Russian online news site Realnoe Vremya, construction was set to begin in 2018 and be completed by 2024, but work on the project hadn’t begun as of early December. Meanwhile, the cost to build the Moscow–Kazan rail has risen to nearly 1.7 trillion rubles (about $24.5 billion) from the initial estimate of 1 trillion rubles (about $14.4 billion).

The rail is currently being developed by JSC High-Speed Rail Lines, a subsidiary of Russia’s state-owned JSC Russian Railways.

As for financing the project, the Russian news agency TASS, in an article published in August 2017, reported that China had agreed to provide a 400 billion ruble loan ($5.7 billion) over 20 years.

Additional Concerns

Putin has recently also voiced concerns about the project, despite his initial enthusiasm.

In October, Putin expressed doubts during a government meeting about the need to build the section between Moscow and Nizhny Novgorod. He said other construction projects, including a toll road, are already being planned in that city, according to Russian daily newspaper Vedomosti.

In late November, Russia media reported that Putin instructed Russia’s Ministry of Transport to consider the effectiveness of the entire project, not just the segment between Moscow and Nizhny Novgorod.

The Council under the President of the Russian Federation, in an article published on its website in May 2018, wrote that numerous advertisements for the rail project had misleading information about projected passenger traffic and GDP growth as a result of the railway.

Russian newspaper Novaya Gazeta, in an editorial published Dec. 3, noted that ticket prices for the high-speed rail may be too prohibitively expensive for local residents.

Ivan Zuenko, a research fellow at the Center for Asia Pacific Studies within the state-run Russian Academy of Sciences, pointed out that China’s high-speed rail system is “one of the most corrupt areas of the country”—in an article for Russian magazine Profile that was published July 19, 2018.

China’s former railway minister, Liu Zhijun, was sentenced to death with a reprieve for corruption in July 2013.

On Dec. 26, Voice of America, citing Russian media, reported that locals have recently held protests against the Moscow–Kazan line because their properties were demolished to make way for the railway.

 

 

 

[Starschy + 211]

The Project progresses. Contracts for the 5th section of 8th are signed to Kazan first 730 km. The only change may be the Trains which may be not Siemens or the Spain Consortium instead the Chinese one. But that is not an issue.

[Ron Wagner + 714]

From what I read, the ethnic future of the entire eastern two thirds of Russia is very vulnerable to eventually becoming increasingly influenced by China and North Korea. It may be many decades from now, but the number of ethnic groups in Russia is going to be a major issue as ethnic Russians are overwhelmed by ethnic Asians. I think that there are many plans being hatched in Northern and Central Asia as well regarding who will be influencing who. 

https://www.quora.com/How-is-the-population-distributed-in-Russia

Edited March 18, 2023 by Ron Wagner

[Starschy + 211]

Everyone nows that Siberia does not have that many Inhabitants. Siberia since hundreds of years live with Chinese and Korean People.

But most Chinese People are South oriented. To live 5-6 Months under -25 Celsius is not an option.

[Hotone + 412]

On 3/18/2023 at 10:51 AM, Ron Wagner said:

From what I read, the ethnic future of the entire eastern two thirds of Russia is very vulnerable to eventually becoming increasingly influenced by China and North Korea. It may be many decades from now, but the number of ethnic groups in Russia is going to be a major issue as ethnic Russians are overwhelmed by ethnic Asians. I think that there are many plans being hatched in Northern and Central Asia as well regarding who will be influencing who. 

https://www.quora.com/How-is-the-population-distributed-in-Russia

There may be a very few, but Chinese people will not want to live in Russia's Far East, when they can live in the comfort of China's Southern cities.  This is what conditions look like for Asians in that part of the world:

https://youtu.be/lj5GXZaE7qs

Edited April 5, 2023 by Hotone

[Ron Wagner + 714]

14 hours ago, Hotone said:

There may be a very few, but Chinese people will not want to live in Russia's Far East, when they can live in the comfort of China's Southern cities.  This is what conditions look like for Asians in that part of the world:

https://youtu.be/lj5GXZaE7qs

I was actually thinking of non Han Chinese that live nearer to the border, Mongolians etc. The Chinese economic future may require more movement to take advantage of Russian resources that are undeveloped. The CCP is not encouraging Western investment due to their aggressive ambitions worldwide. 

Thanks for the link. I hate cold weather myself. 

Edited April 6, 2023 by Ron Wagner

[Tomasz + 1,608]

No concern in this aspect you know China is not some kind a cuckold as Germany if you know what I mean about NSII. So stop please. Not now simple. Ship has sailed a LONG TIME AGO.

FOR USA best Russian future is to fight to last Russiaan with China as Ukraine with Russia to last Ukrainian

Problem is noone is nearly as stupid as Ukrainians for you unfortunalety.

Sorry to be rude and impolite. This need to be summarized.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Tomasz

[Tomasz + 1,608]

Simply just stop to tell Russian- Russians be aware that China is your truly  existential enemy

This will simply no work AT all know after Ukrainian crisis.

You decide to contain both China and Russia. Good luck but with logical consequences.

[notsonice + 1,266]

2 hours ago, Tomasz said:

No concern in this aspect you know China is not some kind a cuckold as Germany if you know what I mean about NSII. So stop please. Not now simple. Ship has sailed a LONG TIME AGO.

FOR USA best Russian future is to fight to last Russiaan with China as Ukraine with Russia to last Ukrainian

Problem is noone is nearly as stupid as Ukrainians for you unfortunalety.

Sorry to be rude and impolite. This need to be summarized.

Problem is noone is nearly as stupid as Ukrainians for you unfortunalety.????????

 

actually there is a group of people on Earth that takes first prize for the most Stupid

They are known as Russians who support Putin

Braindead Russian Putin lovers always post stupid BS here

Do you support Putin??? your posts show that you do support him.........

Sorry to be rude and impolite.....You post like a Putin Lover

 

PS Kiss the thought of Russia coming out of the dark ages in the next 20 years.........That Ship has sailed a LONG TIME AGO

 

[Tomasz + 1,608]

27 minutes ago, notsonice said:

Problem is noone is nearly as stupid as Ukrainians for you unfortunalety.????????

 

actually there is a group of people on Earth that takes first prize for the most Stupid

They are known as Russians who support Putin

Braindead Russian Putin lovers always post stupid BS here

Do you support Putin??? your posts show that you do support him.........

Sorry to be rude and impolite.....You post like a Putin Lover

 

PS Kiss the thought of Russia coming out of the dark ages in the next 20 years.........That Ship has sailed a LONG TIME AGO

 

NATO is western equivalent of warsaw pact. Some ~alliance~ one hegemon and Rest as vassals. 

[notsonice + 1,266]

11 minutes ago, Tomasz said:

NATO is western equivalent of warsaw pact. Some ~alliance~ one hegemon and Rest as vassals. 

More stupid BS from a Putin lover

does the Warsaw Pact exist today??? HA HA HA HA some alliance

Membership	Albania[a]  Bulgaria  Czechoslovakia  East Germany[b]  Hungary  Poland  Romania[c]  Soviet Union

Now you tell me how many of your Warsaw Pact members are now Proud members of NATO..HA HA HA

On a side nope......Did you enjoy Finland joining NATO......I sure did....So Proud of my Finnish side of the family.....Finns are rock stars

Now Finland has some real muscle backing them....

And the Warsaw Pact...all that Russia has left is......forced conscription of prisoners......and the slow ones who cannot figure out how to get the hell out of Russia. 

Enjoy....Spring Offensive....NATO Supplied with the Best equipment on earth

 

Edited April 21, 2023 by notsonice

[RichieRich216 + 454]

Does this come as a shock to anyone? Russia is accepting hard Chinese currency for goods and services just to exchange them for dollars quietly. 

China’s Belt and Road projects were funded by,a devalued national currency which they never expected to be paid but, declare a default, and the projects were built by the Chinese workforce using imported Chinese materials.

 

Russa / Putin needs Chinese goods and services and China is getting cheap oil. The military build-up of China currently parallels the United States after entering WWII. 

They are churning out aircraft and ships on a huge scale, that said the war in Ukraine is demonstrating that these hard military acquisitions may not be a deciding factor in future conflicts.

Best of luck Putin being subservient to China!

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

9 hours ago, Tomasz said:

NATO is western equivalent of warsaw pact. Some ~alliance~ one hegemon and Rest as vassals. 

I think that alliance and the true strength of it has truly shocked Putin and its clear to everyone with a brain bigger than an amoeba that he miscalculated massively over NATO.

If Russia was truly that hegemon of the old and failed Warsaw pact then it failed spectacularly yet again.

Who is left with them? Belarus and their puppet president! truly laughable.

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

NATO allies 'agree Ukraine will become member'

https://news.sky.com/story/nato-allies-agree-ukraine-will-become-member-12862389

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

Russia admits accidentally striking one of its own cities near Ukraine

https://news.sky.com/story/russia-admits-accidentally-striking-one-of-its-own-cities-near-ukraine-12862300

CLOWNS!🤡

[TailingsPond + 1,013]

9 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Russia admits accidentally striking one of its own cities near Ukraine

https://news.sky.com/story/russia-admits-accidentally-striking-one-of-its-own-cities-near-ukraine-12862300

CLOWNS!🤡

It happens

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendly_fire

"The Oxford Companion to American Military History estimates that between 2 percent and 2.5 percent of the casualties in America's wars are attributable to friendly fire."

[Ron Wagner + 714]

On 4/21/2023 at 4:34 AM, Rob Plant said:

I think that alliance and the true strength of it has truly shocked Putin and its clear to everyone with a brain bigger than an amoeba that he miscalculated massively over NATO.

If Russia was truly that hegemon of the old and failed Warsaw pact then it failed spectacularly yet again.

Who is left with them? Belarus and their puppet president! truly laughable.

The people of Belarus are even more unhappy with their government but are brutally repressed by their government too. 

In 2011, Belarus suffered a severe economic crisis attributed to Lukashenko's government's centralized control of the economy, with inflation reaching 108.7%.^[106] Around the same time the 2011 Minsk Metro bombing occurred in which 15 people were killed and 204 were injured. Two suspects, who were arrested within two days, confessed to being the perpetrators and were executed by shooting in 2012. The official version of events as publicised by the Belarusian government was questioned in the unprecedented wording of the UN Security Council statement condemning "the apparent terrorist attack" intimating the possibility that the Belarusian government itself was behind the bombing.^[107]

 

Alexander Lukashenko has ruled Belarus since 1994.

Mass protests erupted across the country following the disputed 2020 Belarusian presidential election,^[108] in which Lukashenko sought a sixth term in office.^[109] Neighbouring countries Poland and Lithuania do not recognize Lukashenko as the legitimate president of Belarus and the Lithuanian government has allotted a residence for main opposition candidate Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya and other members of the Belarusian opposition in Vilnius.^{[110][111][112][113][114]} Neither is Lukashenko recognized as the legitimate president of Belarus by the European Union, Canada, the United Kingdom nor the United States.^{[115][116][117][118]} The European Union, Canada, the United Kingdom and the United States have all imposed sanctions against Belarus because of the rigged election and political oppression during the ongoing protests in the country.^[119][120] Further sanctions were imposed in 2022 following the country's role in the invasion of Ukraine.^[121][122] These include not only corporate offices and individual officers of government but also private individuals who work in the state-owned enterprise industrial sector.^[123] Norway and Japan have joined the sanctions regime which aims to isolate Belarus from the international supply chain. Most major Belarusian banks are also under restrictions.^[123]

^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belarus}

[Tomasz + 1,608]

To be honest I recenty heard so many wise US statestaman on yt. Starting From George Kennan though well Matlock tyhen  Mearsheimer then  Jeffrey Sachs finally Kissinger. Really so many or maybe so few. 

For me Biden is superhawk and neocon. Neocon I mean should be someone who at least  is neoconservative so maybe even neo but still back o the core. I mean when you are a conservative statetsmen sorry for poor english it means something which looks like a better idea is stilll  much worse idea than something than works good for the time being. Why the fuck change this when an upgrade might be a distaster? So?

Another one - ask any truly one liberal from begining of XX century I mean welfare state whether a  neoliberal is liberal or not all anything even close to libeerlism. For me not at all.

And woke is fake leftish - leftish is maybe a member of trade union who wants a more money from Bezos Amazon. Or simple to be safe at work by sttill getting peanuts. Woke IS NOT AT ALL LEFTISH. For Bezos caring about some LGBT is good. For his OWN workers not. So we sponsor as Bezos  woke and sack trade union members.

Edited May 25, 2023 by Tomasz

[Tomasz + 1,608]

For me its really looks strange. Really when gen Milley or whole Pentagon full of US veteran generals is more really more dove then Deep State. I read then maybe yeap maybe gen Milley is a gay. I really dont care/ fuck  at all wheter true or not what kind of fun or not really he has with someone in his OWN I mean  reallyb mean his OWN  bedroom he has as long as he seems to have a REAL BALLS to say somehing truely  controversial/TABOO.

Edited May 25, 2023 by Tomasz

[Tomasz + 1,608]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-rHBRwdql8&t=395s Really good one

[Boat + 1,325]

On 4/21/2023 at 4:34 AM, Rob Plant said:

I think that alliance and the true strength of it has truly shocked Putin and its clear to everyone with a brain bigger than an amoeba that he miscalculated massively over NATO.

If Russia was truly that hegemon of the old and failed Warsaw pact then it failed spectacularly yet again.

Who is left with them? Belarus and their puppet president! truly laughable.

The alliance of the US and it’s Allies haven’t scratched the surface of their trading powder or their military power. The US practices a proportionate response policy with lots of warnings. Everyone fears the easy path to apocalyptic living conditions but on the other hand you can’t give in to idiots like Putin and XI. You can’t control these boys, you can only take them out if they go to far. 

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

9 hours ago, Tomasz said:

For me its really looks strange. Really when gen Milley or whole Pentagon full of US veteran generals is more really more dove then Deep State. I read then maybe yeap maybe gen Milley is a gay. I really dont care/ fuck  at all wheter true or not what kind of fun or not really he has with someone in his OWN I mean  reallyb mean his OWN  bedroom he has as long as he seems to have a REAL BALLS to say somehing truely  controversial/TABOO.

Tomasz your message reads like youre whacked on crack cocaine

[Boat + 1,325]

On 5/25/2023 at 4:22 PM, Tomasz said:

To be honest I recenty heard so many wise US statestaman on yt. Starting From George Kennan though well Matlock tyhen  Mearsheimer then  Jeffrey Sachs finally Kissinger. Really so many or maybe so few. 

For me Biden is superhawk and neocon. Neocon I mean should be someone who at least  is neoconservative so maybe even neo but still back o the core. I mean when you are a conservative statetsmen sorry for poor english it means something which looks like a better idea is stilll  much worse idea than something than works good for the time being. Why the fuck change this when an upgrade might be a distaster? So?

Another one - ask any truly one liberal from begining of XX century I mean welfare state whether a  neoliberal is liberal or not all anything even close to libeerlism. For me not at all.

And woke is fake leftish - leftish is maybe a member of trade union who wants a more money from Bezos Amazon. Or simple to be safe at work by sttill getting peanuts. Woke IS NOT AT ALL LEFTISH. For Bezos caring about some LGBT is good. For his OWN workers not. So we sponsor as Bezos  woke and sack trade union members.

Your right, Biden or any US prez will be a neocon if you steal fighter jet plans, Claim the China Sea, build bases on hand built islands and claim its territory with mineral, oil and fishing rights. Threaten all your neighbors including the ones we gave military protection to after WWII. The list could go on but you can’t read this far anyhow. 

[RichieRich$ + 65]

Well every country that took the Chinese Belt and Road Money never looked past the project, they certainly didn't think about signing NDAs or the fine print that more than 90% of the project would be built using Chinese slaves and Chinese materials.

These Countries' default rates were going to be at least 99% as soon as signed. The World Bank should not consider giving these countries a dime!

The smartest move for the Belt and Road countries would be to NATIONALIZE the Chinese projects.

China would have little recourse considering their manufacturing numbers have softened, the generation that went to college DO NOT want to work in a factory, and their current factory workforce is at an age that they no longer can produce as they did a decade ago.

This along with that they steal all technology from other countries and there current military buildup in ships and planes is almost duplicates that of the United States when we entered World War II.

Personally, I don't think being a country with fewer ships even matters considering that the quality of new weapon systems makes it almost not relevant in most cases.

China has huge internal problems that they continue to hide from their people and the world.

[Boat + 1,325]

On 6/2/2023 at 11:19 AM, RichieRich$ said:

Well every country that took the Chinese Belt and Road Money never looked past the project, they certainly didn't think about signing NDAs or the fine print that more than 90% of the project would be built using Chinese slaves and Chinese materials.

These Countries' default rates were going to be at least 99% as soon as signed. The World Bank should not consider giving these countries a dime!

The smartest move for the Belt and Road countries would be to NATIONALIZE the Chinese projects.

China would have little recourse considering their manufacturing numbers have softened, the generation that went to college DO NOT want to work in a factory, and their current factory workforce is at an age that they no longer can produce as they did a decade ago.

This along with that they steal all technology from other countries and there current military buildup in ships and planes is almost duplicates that of the United States when we entered World War II.

Personally, I don't think being a country with fewer ships even matters considering that the quality of new weapon systems makes it almost not relevant in most cases.

China has huge internal problems that they continue to hide from their people and the world.

China makes enemies of peaceful neighbors and trading partners. They are to dumb to worry about. They will self implode like Russia from lack of simple common sense.