Investment in renewables tanking

[NickW + 2,714]

14 hours ago, markslawson said:

I took another look at the Moroccan renewables project as I was wondering why I hadn't heard much about it. Check out the Wikipedia entry which sums up what I could gather. This project hasn't been given the go ahead yet. Like all those projects it has to have a buy contract from the UK government, and for a project that big it would have to be a huge contract. And why the UK? Spain is way closer and there are existing links. Its managed to attract some project funding, but that's not so unusual for those projects. I'd be wary of having anything to do with it, myself. I'd be interested if they do get those buy contracts, otherwise I'll move on.   

I am dubious about this project. Would be far more sensible to just build additional interconnectors in Spain and use their grid to shift electricity northwards. 

[markslawson + 1,057]

14 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

I agree the government hasnt given approval yet but this is the latest news on this

https://xlinks.co/powering-up-britain-policy/

The project has also secured investment from CON energy in Germany since the Wiki report.

Sure that's all encouraging, and I've got nothing against the project, but none of it really amounts to much.. You're talking about dropping 20 billion or so on a renewable energy project with about half to be spent in another country. A tough sell. 20 billion would buy a heap of offshore wind turbines. As I said, those projects seem to be able to attract seed financing but getting them off the ground is another matter.. anyway, I'd be interested to see what happens and that's about all that can be said. Thanks for the discussion, Leave it with you.  

[TailingsPond + 1,006]

7 hours ago, markslawson said:

Sure that's all encouraging, and I've got nothing against the project, but none of it really amounts to much.. You're talking about dropping 20 billion or so on a renewable energy project with about half to be spent in another country. A tough sell. 20 billion would buy a heap of offshore wind turbines. As I said, those projects seem to be able to attract seed financing but getting them off the ground is another matter.. anyway, I'd be interested to see what happens and that's about all that can be said. Thanks for the discussion, Leave it with you.  

You ignore the 193 billion investment in batteries (in another country) I just posted and then claim 20 billion is too much.   Laughable.

[markslawson + 1,057]

18 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

You ignore the 193 billion investment in batteries (in another country) I just posted and then claim 20 billion is too much.   Laughable.

I just don't see why you think the VW story has any connection with the topic at hand. Its a car company shifting production because of costs. (Its not 193 billion in batteries - that's the figure for the total shift), and I never said too much, although now you mention it, the costs would be high. Why would the UK take very expensive renewable energy from Morocco, when they can get somewhat less expensive renewable energy closer to home? How much do they want to spend on renewable energy. The story you link simply has not relevance to that question. Leave it with you. 

[TailingsPond + 1,006]

1 hour ago, markslawson said:

I just don't see why you think the VW story has any connection with the topic at hand. Its a car company shifting production because of costs. (Its not 193 billion in batteries - that's the figure for the total shift), and I never said too much, although now you mention it, the costs would be high. Why would the UK take very expensive renewable energy from Morocco, when they can get somewhat less expensive renewable energy closer to home? How much do they want to spend on renewable energy. The story you link simply has not relevance to that question. Leave it with you. 

It is clearly an investment in a battery factory.  Batteries will be used to make EV's which is part of the transition to renewable energy.

You should be able to understand that investment in a battery factory is a form of investment in renewable energy. 

FYI the thread is not about Morocco energy (read the title).

Edited April 23, 2023 by TailingsPond

[Ron Wagner + 706]

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2023/04/28/eight-house-republicans-join-democrats-to-protect-china-from-u-s-tariffs/

A confusing headline. The end was to continue the tariffs. RCW

 

Eight House Republicans Join Democrats to Protect China from U.S. Tariffs

104 Tom Williams/Drew Angerer/Howard Schnapp/Newsday RM/Anna Moneymaker/SUSAN WALSH/POOL/AFP/Bill Clark/CQ-Roll Call, Inc via Getty Images

JOHN BINDER

28 Apr 2023657

3:45

A group of eight House Republicans joined the majority of Democrats to support President Joe Biden’s suspension of United States tariffs on suspected China-made solar panels. Nonetheless, a bill to reverse the tariff suspension passed the House with support from 209 Republicans and 12 Democrats.

In June 2022, Biden announced a 24-month tariff moratorium on solar panel imports from Cambodia, Thailand, Vietnam, and Malaysia. Commerce Department officials suspect that the solar panels are actually made in China but have been routed through the four southeast Asian nations to avoid U.S. tariffs on China-made solar panels.

 

The suspension of tariffs came even as Biden’s Commerce Department found that BYD Hong Kong rerouted its production through Cambodia, Canadian Solar, Trina through Thailand, and Vina Solar through Vietnam for the sole purpose of avoiding the tariffs.

On Friday, 209 House Republicans and 12 Democrats passed a resolution to reverse Biden’s tariff suspension while eight House Republicans — primarily from New York — joined 194 Democrats to oppose the effort.

The eight House Republicans who backed Biden’s tariff waivers are:

• Rep. John Curtis (R-UT)
• Rep. Anthony D’Esposito (R-NY)
• Rep. Andrew Garbarino (R-NY)
• Rep. Nicholas LaLota (R-NY)
• Rep. Mike Lawler (R-NY)
• Rep. Thomas Massie (R-KY)
• Rep. Mariannette Miller-Meeks (R-IA)
• Rep. Marcus Molinaro (R-NY)

Groups representing American manufacturers praised the passage of the resolution.

SUBSCRIBE

By subscribing, you agree to our terms of use & privacy policy. You will receive email marketing messages from Breitbart News Network to the email you provide. You may unsubscribe at any time.

“We applaud Democrats and Republicans in the House for Standing up for American manufacturers and workers in the face of illegal, predatory Chinese trade activity,” Coalition for a Prosperous America CEO Michael Stumo said in a statement.

“The facts are clear: Commerce confirmed that China is illegally violating U.S. trade law and the Biden administration’s misguided rule protects them. Congress should never sit idly by and fail to respond to attacks on American industries and workers by any administration — regardless of party,” Stumo continued.

As Breitbart News reported, Biden has vowed to veto the resolution if it passes the Democrat-controlled Senate, claiming the tariff suspension is necessary to fight “the climate crisis.”

From 2001 to 2018, U.S. free trade with China eliminated 3.7 million American jobs from the economy — 2.8 million of which were lost in American manufacturing. During that same period, at least 50,000 American manufacturing plants closed down.

Those massive job losses have coincided with a booming U.S.-China trade deficit. In 1985, before China entered the World Trade Organization (WTO), the U.S. trade deficit with China totaled $6 billion. In 2019, the U.S. trade deficit with China totaled more than $345 billion.

While skyrocketing U.S. trade deficits have led to devastation across America’s working- and middle-class communities over the last two decades, tariffs would be a boon for reshoring jobs and boosting wages, studies show. One such study finds that tariffs on nearly all foreign imports would create about ten million American jobs while boosting domestic output.

John Binder is a reporter for Breitbart News. Email him at jbinder@breitbart.com. Follow him on Twitter here.

 

[Boat + 1,323]

The US needs to ween itself off the Chinese teet of trade. The devastation of Americas middle class has more to do with US corruption and weakening of regulations during GW term that almost brought down the worlds economy. Back to the Chinese. Forget tarrifs and simply cut trade. Like 5% per year. Turn the ships around and hurt producers and consumers a like. Both sides need to feel the pain. The market with China will die from that pain or behavior will change. This tarrif shanenangans seems like a shell game with few results. But Biden dosent need cheap panels from China reguardless. Tech will make solar cheaper sooner rather than later. 

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

21 hours ago, Ron Wagner said:

EDight House Republicans Join Democrats to Protect China from U.S. Tariffs

104 Tom Williams/Drew Angerer/Howard Schnapp/Newsday RM/Anna Moneymaker/SUSAN WALSH/POOL/AFP/Bill Clark/CQ-Roll Call, Inc via Getty Images

JOHN BINDER

28 Apr 2023657

3:45

A group of eight House Republicans joined the majority of Democrats to support President Joe Biden’s suspension of United States tariffs on suspected China-made solar panels. Nonetheless, a bill to reverse the tariff suspension passed the House with support from 209 Republicans and 12 Democrats.

In June 2022, Biden announced a 24-month tariff moratorium on solar panel imports from Cambodia, Thailand, Vietnam, and Malaysia. Commerce Department officials suspect that the solar panels are actually made in China but have been routed through the four southeast Asian nations to avoid U.S. tariffs on China-made solar panels.

 

The suspension of tariffs came even as Biden’s Commerce Department found that BYD Hong Kong rerouted its production through Cambodia, Canadian Solar, Trina through Thailand, and Vina Solar through Vietnam for the sole purpose of avoiding the tariffs.

On Friday, 209 House Republicans and 12 Democrats passed a resolution to reverse Biden’s tariff suspension while eight House Republicans — primarily from New York — joined 194 Democrats to oppose the effort.

The eight House Republicans who backed Biden’s tariff waivers are:

• Rep. John Curtis (R-UT)
• Rep. Anthony D’Esposito (R-NY)
• Rep. Andrew Garbarino (R-NY)
• Rep. Nicholas LaLota (R-NY)
• Rep. Mike Lawler (R-NY)
• Rep. Thomas Massie (R-KY)
• Rep. Mariannette Miller-Meeks (R-IA)
• Rep. Marcus Molinaro (R-NY)

Groups representing American manufacturers praised the passage of the resolution.

SUBSCRIBE

 

By subscribing, you agree to our terms of use & privacy policy. You will receive email marketing messages from Breitbart News Network to the email you provide. You may unsubscribe at any time.

“We applaud Democrats and Republicans in the House for Standing up for American manufacturers and workers in the face of illegal, predatory Chinese trade activity,” Coalition for a Prosperous America CEO Michael Stumo said in a statement.

“The facts are clear: Commerce confirmed that China is illegally violating U.S. trade law and the Biden administration’s misguided rule protects them. Congress should never sit idly by and fail to respond to attacks on American industries and workers by any administration — regardless of party,” Stumo continued.

As Breitbart News reported, Biden has vowed to veto the resolution if it passes the Democrat-controlled Senate, claiming the tariff suspension is necessary to fight “the climate crisis.”

From 2001 to 2018, U.S. free trade with China eliminated 3.7 million American jobs from the economy — 2.8 million of which were lost in American manufacturing. During that same period, at least 50,000 American manufacturing plants closed down.

Those massive job losses have coincided with a booming U.S.-China trade deficit. In 1985, before China entered the World Trade Organization (WTO), the U.S. trade deficit with China totaled $6 billion. In 2019, the U.S. trade deficit with China totaled more than $345 billion.

While skyrocketing U.S. trade deficits have led to devastation across America’s working- and middle-class communities over the last two decades, tariffs would be a boon for reshoring jobs and boosting wages, studies show. One such study finds that tariffs on nearly all foreign imports would create about ten million American jobs while boosting domestic output.

John Binder is a reporter for Breitbart News. Email him at jbinder@breitbart.com. Follow him on Twitter here.

 

Did you notice majority of them have Italian names... From New York and one owned by pig food lobby..and a couple others I have no idea who they are..  Makes on think of a word starting with C

 and continuing with... o r r u p... How did it go again?  Hrmm

Should have had ALL trade embargoed to China due to their human rights abuses alone.  To heck with spineless tariffs.  Ah, but we have MBA bastards in charge of companies owned by Blackrock/Vanguard... only $$$ speaks, morals have left the building about 30 years ago.  It is lip service only folks. 

Edited April 30, 2023 by footeab@yahoo.com

[Ron Wagner + 706]

IMHO China is failing fast, the dollar is still strong but we are in danger of massive inflation if we don't cut spending. America is in a stronger position internationally than it has been for a long time. That is because every other major country has screwed up their economy too. 

[NickW + 2,714]

On 4/30/2023 at 4:43 AM, Ron Wagner said:

IMHO China is failing fast, the dollar is still strong but we are in danger of massive inflation if we don't cut spending. America is in a stronger position internationally than it has been for a long time. That is because every other major country has screwed up their economy too. 

You bigging up Biden then? 

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

Clean Energy Investment Hit $1.1 Trillion In 2022

https://oilprice.com/Alternative-Energy/Renewable-Energy/Clean-Energy-Investment-Hit-11-Trillion-In-2022.html

Investment "tanking"?

I think not.

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,554]

4 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Clean Energy Investment Hit $1.1 Trillion In 2022

https://oilprice.com/Alternative-Energy/Renewable-Energy/Clean-Energy-Investment-Hit-11-Trillion-In-2022.html

Investment "tanking"?

I think not.

Old data...Inflation Is destroying green energy and companies at there core. Note that article states JAN. 22. The most profitable long term EV mfg....arguably the only mfg is only beginning to feel the brunt. Even green investment uses additions. Two negatives does not make a positive....multiple negatives you say? The end is near

 

 

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/19/tesla-tsla-earnings-q1-2023.html

Tesla net income drops more than 20% from last year

PUBLISHED WED, APR 19 202312:37 PM ED

 

The energy crisis and policy actions sent global investment in low-carbon energy sources soaring to a record $1.1 trillion in 2022, 

 

Ford losing billions on EVs but sees profits on horizon

Ford will have lost $6 billion on EVs over three years but believes it can reach profit margins of 8% on EVs and 10% companywide by the end of 2026.

Edited May 3, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open

[RichieRich$ + 65]

Mark, Good read that said you're talking to a cement wall when you try to address greenies. 

Some of these people have been doing the “ sky is falling, the ozone is gone, the ice is melting “ since the 1970s

If some people and groups can score free money, they will keep up with the end of the world tale.

My thoughts are the earth will take care of itself. We have had science, ultimately, without doubt, about the “big bank theory” now that we are seeing deep images never seen before, and science and the scientific community have had their heads spinning.

So if China continues to import coal and fire up several new coal furnaces a week, I don't think buying out Dutch farmers' land to stop their farming activities will make no difference.

You get China and India to scale back their pollution activities, and that could be a good starting point to continue with this nonsense of stopping farmers, putting up these eyes soars bird-killing wind farms.

[RichieRich$ + 65]

Ford Loses Nearly $60,000 for Every Electric Vehicle Sold

The legacy carmaker has, for the first time, published its results, distinguishing the activities of electric vehicles from those of gasoline cars. For now, clean cars are a money pit.

 

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

12 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Old data...Inflation Is destroying green energy and companies at there core. Note that article states JAN. 22. The most profitable long term EV mfg....arguably the only mfg is only beginning to feel the brunt. Even green investment uses additions. Two negatives does not make a positive....multiple negatives you say? The end is near

The data was for all of 2022! and the article was posted on oil price on 26th Jan 2023!! so yeah its 3 months old but thats NOT old data.

In your own post you then confirm what I posted and said this:-

"The energy crisis and policy actions sent global investment in low-carbon energy sources soaring to a record $1.1 trillion in 2022"

I'll remind you the title of this post is "Investment in renewables is tanking" so you confirm like I do that they are in fact doing the opposite.

Leave it with you

Edited May 4, 2023 by Rob Plant

[Ron Wagner + 706]

On 5/2/2023 at 3:59 AM, NickW said:

You bigging up Biden then? 

IMHO Biden has received good advice from the military and is doing exactly the right thing by supporting Ukraine. It is destroying Russian aggression and their future power plays. It has also warned off China from attacking Taiwan, at least for now. China is also in a desperate economic crisis for several reasons:

Europe followed America's lead in supporting Ukrainian freedom and independence. Europe freed itself from dependence on Russian oil and gas. NATO and others imposed severe and growing sanctions on the Russian economy. Europe, and all Western nations and their allies became unified against not only the Russian Bear, but also the Chinese dragon. 

Their past reliance on massive housing construction that is now abandoned and useless.

The massive debt held by their citizens, banks, businesses, and government at all levels. ( Worse even, than that of Americas.)

The flight of international manufacturing to other countries, which is due to the lack of faith in Xi's dictatorial administration and grandiose plans for Chinese hegemony. 

The aging of the Chinese population which places a burden on the younger generations, who will need to support their elders.  

Competitive nations like India and other nations have a much younger population distribution. 

China needs to rid itself of the Chinese Communist Party and Xi to become accepted by the world as it was during China's rise. 

Communism and dictatorship has been shown to be a path to failure for any nation which lives under its  policies. 

Unfortunately, America is becoming more like Canada and Europe politically. If this is not turned around 180 degrees, we will become a democrat socialist nation like the ones in Europe. Our economy will falter, along with our traditional American values. Anyone with eyes to see, is watching it happening all around America. Biden is a leader in that movement along with his whole administration and all the government employee unions, teachers unions, USPS, major media, wealthy foundations run by the grandchildren of great business leaders, etc. etc. 

[TailingsPond + 1,006]

3 hours ago, Ron Wagner said:

 

Unfortunately, America is becoming more like Canada and Europe politically. If this is not turned around 180 degrees, we will become a democrat socialist nation like the ones in Europe. Our economy will falter, along with our traditional American values. Anyone with eyes to see, is watching it happening all around America. Biden is a leader in that movement along with his whole administration and all the government employee unions, teachers unions, USPS, major media, wealthy foundations run by the grandchildren of great business leaders, etc. etc. 

The people of USA are voting in a way you do not like?  Ideally democracy rules, but you desire "traditional American values" more than what the people are saying?

"anyone with eyes to see, is watching it happen all around America."  

That clearly shows you acknowledge the loss of right wing support "all around America." 

Attempts to suppress the majority to support a failed ideology is wrong... m'kay?

[TailingsPond + 1,006]

Must be hard on the trump cult watching all the crimes exposed.

[TailingsPond + 1,006]

3 hours ago, Ron Wagner said:

Unfortunately, America is becoming more like Canada and Europe politically. If this is not turned around 180 degrees, we will become a democrat socialist nation like the ones in Europe. Our economy will falter, along with our traditional American values. Anyone with eyes to see, is watching it happening all around America.

You really need to think about whether you value democracy over a fairly tale called "traditional American values."

 

[specinho + 467]

On 4/19/2023 at 8:48 AM, markslawson said:

Rob - those are useful points. Investment in this area will certainly recover somewhat and a lot of the present investment downturn, denied by some, would be due to the general investment climate. My point is more about the impossible deadlines being set for getting rid of coal plants and not much being built to replace them. Even those writing absurd stories about vast increases in investment agree that too few are being built. As for wind it is by far the largest contributor to the renewable energy scene, outside biomass and hydro (those count as a renewable but without any of the problems of wind and solar). No one seems to pay much attention to solar.    

Breaking News! Breaking News!!

Watched a news clip yesterday. Vaguely recalling it was a message from UN to all governments and the world. It's a call to cut usages of plastic to reduce plastic pollution at landfills and the sea. 

I incline to disagree... due to inconveniences induced at wet market section e.g. fish, meat, other seafood and fruit section e.g. 20 pieces of oranges per purchase ( handfull, right...?).

Besides that, small family size in the west enables them to use paper bags, recycling bags for goods in need for a week or two. Imagine, families of SEA,  on an average of at least 10 members each household ( 4 to 6 children, parents, grandparents, cousins next door etc)..... One trip out for a few days to a week of groceries will fill the booth and back seats + legging space. Imagine to fit these mount of things in paper bags or recycling bags the size of 30 cm x 40 cm commonly used in the market... 

Plastic bags make them easier to be carried. In addition, these bags will be used to fill garbage bins for tidy and hygiene purpose.

Imagine garbage bins that are not lined...... And you have intestines of chicken, fish, unfinished cooked vege, gravy etc in the bin...... 

Therefore, plastic is deemed essential in SEA due to the average size of families, conditions of essential items purchased and as a proper garbage disposal method... 

A glitch for an alternative solution...

Instead of banning it and causing inconveniences and other hygienic problems in SEA, we could probably make good use of :

1. Plastic bags are largely polyethylene, right? '-'

If we cut them into pieces and burn them, would they become melted polyethylene, i.e. a petroleum product? 

And we can reuse this melted plastic as fuel? 'o' 'O'

Wow..... Renewable energy in the making, right?

Plastic - melted into hydrocarbon - burnt for energy - gas ethane or ethylene - plastic - etc......  'o' 

 

2. Someone is turning plastic waste into wall and cupboard paper.

If they can become flooring material, we might not have enough plastic waste to supply the demand?..... 'o' '-'

Here comes an essential point:

Copying fully a successful model in the west, although easy, by merely giving out orders, might not work for the east. 

Global Uniformity is hence, proven a failure attempt due to failure to notice the differences, while assuming sameness..... 

 

[markslawson + 1,057]

16 hours ago, specinho said:

Watched a news clip yesterday. Vaguely recalling it was a message from UN to all governments and the world. It's a call to cut usages of plastic to reduce plastic pollution at landfills and the sea. 

I incline to disagree... due to inconveniences induced at wet market section e.g. fish, meat, other seafood and fruit section e.g. 20 pieces of oranges per purchase ( handfull, right...?).

Not sure what this has to do with the topic, but certainly the policies concerning plastic recycling can be re-thought.. 

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

23 hours ago, specinho said:

Breaking News! Breaking News!!

Watched a news clip yesterday. Vaguely recalling it was a message from UN to all governments and the world. It's a call to cut usages of plastic to reduce plastic pollution at landfills and the sea. 

I incline to disagree... due to inconveniences induced at wet market section e.g. fish, meat, other seafood and fruit section e.g. 20 pieces of oranges per purchase ( handfull, right...?).

Besides that, small family size in the west enables them to use paper bags, recycling bags for goods in need for a week or two. Imagine, families of SEA,  on an average of at least 10 members each household ( 4 to 6 children, parents, grandparents, cousins next door etc)..... One trip out for a few days to a week of groceries will fill the booth and back seats + legging space. Imagine to fit these mount of things in paper bags or recycling bags the size of 30 cm x 40 cm commonly used in the market... 

Plastic bags make them easier to be carried. In addition, these bags will be used to fill garbage bins for tidy and hygiene purpose.

Imagine garbage bins that are not lined...... And you have intestines of chicken, fish, unfinished cooked vege, gravy etc in the bin...... 

Therefore, plastic is deemed essential in SEA due to the average size of families, conditions of essential items purchased and as a proper garbage disposal method... 

A glitch for an alternative solution...

Instead of banning it and causing inconveniences and other hygienic problems in SEA, we could probably make good use of :

1. Plastic bags are largely polyethylene, right? '-'

If we cut them into pieces and burn them, would they become melted polyethylene, i.e. a petroleum product? 

And we can reuse this melted plastic as fuel? 'o' 'O'

Wow..... Renewable energy in the making, right?

Plastic - melted into hydrocarbon - burnt for energy - gas ethane or ethylene - plastic - etc......  'o' 

 

2. Someone is turning plastic waste into wall and cupboard paper.

If they can become flooring material, we might not have enough plastic waste to supply the demand?..... 'o' '-'

Here comes an essential point:

Copying fully a successful model in the west, although easy, by merely giving out orders, might not work for the east. 

Global Uniformity is hence, proven a failure attempt due to failure to notice the differences, while assuming sameness..... 

 

https://gizmodo.com/new-technique-could-turn-plastic-back-into-oil-which-i-1846733316

I think this article above is basically your point 1 and is saying they can now do this at lower temperatures making it more cost effective, however there was a reply to the article which sort of debunks the whole idea as being practicle, see below.

"Interesting article, and hopefully this tech has legs...but liquefying the plastic does not mean it is ready for cars, or even close to it. Olefins are the common name for alkenes, which contain a double-bond somewhere in the c-chain. Gasoline contains only trace olefins, and is mostly composed of alkanes, which do not have double bonds.

Assuming that this new technique is capable of breaking double-bonds at reduced temperatures, how are the researchers controlling for side reactions between the broken double bonds? Is there a hydrotreating step that is not discussed?

If it’s not breaking the double-bonds, then a cracking step (1000-1200 F, followed by hydrotreatment, and then blending will still be required.

The big problem he is going to run into, is that at least in the US, all of the Oil companies except for Phillips66 have eliminated their research groups, what is left are essentially glorified PQ teams, so they will need this to be developed to the point where they can almost build it immediately. Still, they should have some interest.

And for my expertise in this area...I spent 10+ years working in refining, as a process and project engineer at some of the largest refineries in the US. I left just before the pandemic, to start working as a sustainability engineer at a company outside of oil and gas."

[specinho + 467]

On 5/19/2023 at 8:44 AM, markslawson said:

Not sure what this has to do with the topic, but certainly the policies concerning plastic recycling can be re-thought.. 

it might be too long. You did not read it in full... It is concerning the latest renewable fuel....i. e. Polyethylene plastic bags to melted hydrocarbon fuel to gas ethane or ethylene to plastic bags again

[specinho + 467]

On 5/6/2023 at 3:13 PM, TailingsPond said:

The people of USA are voting in a way you do not like?  Ideally democracy rules, but you desire "traditional American values" more than what the people are saying?

"anyone with eyes to see, is watching it happen all around America."  

That clearly shows you acknowledge the loss of right wing support "all around America." 

Attempts to suppress the majority to support a failed ideology is wrong... m'kay?

Modern Democracy chooses monkeys........ 

[specinho + 467]

On 5/19/2023 at 4:08 PM, Rob Plant said:

https://gizmodo.com/new-technique-could-turn-plastic-back-into-oil-which-i-1846733316

I think this article above is basically your point 1 and is saying they can now do this at lower temperatures making it more cost effective, however there was a reply to the article which sort of debunks the whole idea as being practicle, see below.

"Interesting article, and hopefully this tech has legs...but liquefying the plastic does not mean it is ready for cars, or even close to it. Olefins are the common name for alkenes, which contain a double-bond somewhere in the c-chain. Gasoline contains only trace olefins, and is mostly composed of alkanes, which do not have double bonds.

Assuming that this new technique is capable of breaking double-bonds at reduced temperatures, how are the researchers controlling for side reactions between the broken double bonds? Is there a hydrotreating step that is not discussed?

If it’s not breaking the double-bonds, then a cracking step (1000-1200 F, followed by hydrotreatment, and then blending will still be required.

The big problem he is going to run into, is that at least in the US, all of the Oil companies except for Phillips66 have eliminated their research groups, what is left are essentially glorified PQ teams, so they will need this to be developed to the point where they can almost build it immediately. Still, they should have some interest.

And for my expertise in this area...I spent 10+ years working in refining, as a process and project engineer at some of the largest refineries in the US. I left just before the pandemic, to start working as a sustainability engineer at a company outside of oil and gas."

Good thinking. 

The question raised might have confused the single unit/ monomer and a multi unit/ polymer....

 

Ethene, is a double bond monomer of 2C. CnH2n or C2H4. - 'c = c' - 

 

Polyethene, is a polymer formed by joint multi unit monomers of ethene. For ethene to be elongated, the double bond would be broken and used to form a bond with adjacent carbon. (C2H4)n

C ( - 'c,- 'c, -) c........

When melted into liquid, it would be hydrocarbon.

How to control its length and the type of gas formed when burnt, there would certainly be a way. Chemical processes of these few are interchangeable, if not mistaken.