footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190 January 7 2 hours ago, TailingsPond said: His chemistry is correct. Heck, you are not even denying that the ocean pH is falling due to carbon emissions. Your "argument" is that the acidification beneficial, which is much different that saying it is not occurring. Are you dumb? Dumb Q. I'll let you figure out where neutral is(It has a science definition) And no, CO2 is not acidifying the ocean. To do so you have to have more CO2 than calcium/magnesium etc in the ENTIRE damned ocean. Damned clowns.... Its called basic chemistry Give ya a hint: You can take EVERY mol of Carbon in the form of fossil fuel known in reserves today, and DUMP ALL OF IT in the ocean and you still will not even approach running out of Magnesium, let alone calcium in the ocean to lower the oceans pH. Damned clown fools. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specinho + 470 January 8 23 hours ago, notsonice said: you are posting babble....once again you are trying to use some kind of bot to gather info..... your knowledge of aqueous acid chemistry is on a 3rd grade level...at best in other words your word/chemistry BS salad proves you have no understanding of chemistry More than 86% of mineral found in the sea is alkaline in nature. Major ions are Na +, Ca2+, Mg2+, K+... so what .......those ions are already already tied up with CL- ......those existing ions are not reacting with the CO2/carbonic acid and not resulting in massive carbonate precipitation as is the oceans are not capable of adsorbing CO2 without a lowering of the Ph IE active acid formation is happening ...Got it.... you obviously ignored the reality that the Ph of the oceans is dropping from Carbonic acid creation due to CO2 adsorption where is the NaHCO3 coming from in the oceans in your equations???????????.......not giant deposits just waiting to nuetralize carbonic acid...no one is dumping 500 million tonnes of NaHCO3 a year of it into the oceans.... the oceans and lakes are becoming more acidic...pretty fucking simple...even a 4th grader can understand it....except you the lowering of pH also raises heavy metal concentrations...which is lethal to biotic life this is the reality of what is happening only massive volcanic eruptions will reverse the acidification...or the stopping the use of carbon based energy the massive volcanics needed to reverse the acidification will wipe out the human race...... the easiest answer is to stop using carbon based energy sources treating the oceans as a CO2 sink is pollution at its worst and even worse is the idiots, such as yourself, trying to BS it away Just asking, where did you get your degree in Chemistry???????? Bachelors??? Masters??? PhD???? 1. You did not bother to look at the chart you attached a few times. Same habit like tailingponds, who never read the link he quoted. Brothers of a feather... If you did, why have you not seen: a) from 1980 to 2020, your CO2 is reducing by more than 20% b) your pH, however, has reduced ~ 0.5 in value. 8.55 to 8.50; 8.40 to 8.35 etc. How does this happen? Don't you need increase level of co2 to reduce pH value? It is highly conspicuous that you make up the data and create the chart the way you wish things to be seen. A much worse case than extrapolated. You cheat and lie... 2. A can of carbonated drink e.g. coca-cola, could fit only 0.4% to 1.0% of CO2 under high pressure. Upon opened, the gas would diffuse into the air until a point of near zero. How and where did you get your figure of 30% solubility? Tell you the truth, i nearly failed biology and chemistry being first badge of a few high school science students in a small village. No physics due to no teacher confident enough to teach the subject. Basic account was assigned instead. Improved much with curiosity upon meeting outstanding and dedicated teachers for all subjects in science in one of the best schools in another town 2-3 hours away. Stupidity and insufficiency can be improved when meeting the right teachers. But a cheater, lier will have high tendency to make those personal habits... Being regarded as stupid is nothing to be ashame off. For i too ever transformed failed badges of students, whom other teachers gave up hope to teach them properly, into scorers. But you should be ashame of yourself. Lie to divert the truth. What are you selling any way? There must be something you are getting for being so oblivious? 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM January 8 On 1/8/2024 at 1:10 AM, specinho said: 1. You did not bother to look at the chart you attached a few times. Same habit like tailingponds, who never read the link he quoted. Brothers of a feather... If you did, why have you not seen: a) from 1980 to 2020, your CO2 is reducing by more than 20% b) your pH, however, has reduced ~ 0.5 in value. 8.55 to 8.50; 8.40 to 8.35 etc. How does this happen? Don't you need increase level of co2 to reduce pH value? It is highly conspicuous that you make up the data and create the chart the way you wish things to be seen. A much worse case than extrapolated. You cheat and lie... 2. A can of carbonated drink e.g. coca-cola, could fit only 0.4% to 1.0% of CO2 under high pressure. Upon opened, the gas would diffuse into the air until a point of near zero. How and where did you get your figure of 30% solubility? Tell you the truth, i nearly failed biology and chemistry being first badge of a few high school science students in a small village. No physics due to no teacher confident enough to teach the subject. Basic account was assigned instead. Improved much with curiosity upon meeting outstanding and dedicated teachers for all subjects in science in one of the best schools in another town 2-3 hours away. Stupidity and insufficiency can be improved when meeting the right teachers. But a cheater, lier will have high tendency to make those personal habits... Being regarded as stupid is nothing to be ashame off. For i too ever transformed failed badges of students, whom other teachers gave up hope to teach them properly, into scorers. But you should be ashame of yourself. Lie to divert the truth. What are you selling any way? There must be something you are getting for being so oblivious? from 1980 to 2020, your CO2 is reducing by more than 20% you really just post garbage Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM January 8 15 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said: ROFL! Let us know in several billion years when the Oceans goes below Ph7 and actually goes acidic. Until then, the oceans will be getting better and better for plant and animal life. Suggest basic chemistry knowledge. Suggest basic chemistry knowledge??? yes you should get some....and I thought your twin Speci was a world class idiot all by himself...I was wrong.....You two are one of the same Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specinho + 470 January 8 6 minutes ago, notsonice said: from 1980 to 2020, your CO2 is reducing by more than 20% More Bullshit you really just post garbage Can't you count with a phd, experienced chemist and such? Red line: 24 to 18 Blue line: 18 to 10 or 8 Green line: 17 to 14 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM January 8 On 1/8/2024 at 1:39 AM, specinho said: Can't you count with a phd, experienced chemist and such? Red line: 24 to 18 Blue line: 18 to 10 or 8 Green line: 17 to 14 Can't you count with a phd, experienced chemist and such???? the 2nd graph is for carbonate ion concentration......GOT IT??????? Carbonate ions are good ions that buffer the lakes/oceans (help keep the system at a constant pH ) the buffering capacity in the oceans is not infinite.... Carbonate Ions are essential for marine life ........read below do you understand this chart??????????? bicarbonate ions increase (Carbonate ion concentration reduces as a result of the more CO2 additions) with more additions of CO2 into solution this leads to lowering of pH and this is not good go below ph 8 and you will not have carbonate ions in the water....(read the chart above) ....real bad and this is where the oceans are heading now add to much CO2 and the oceans go from basic to acidic and nothing will live in it when you add more CO2 into the system you lower the pH and this wipes out the systems ability to buffer itself. When you read the chart I presented in the earlier post, the Carbonate ion concentration is getting lower...(bicarbonate ions are increasing) Adding CO2 into any system lowers the pH and results in heavy metals going into solution....which is not good..... a little more on why Carbonate ion reduction is bad Ocean acidification occurs as a result of increased carbon dioxide (CO2) levels in the atmosphere, which leads to higher CO2 concentrations in the ocean. When CO2 dissolves in seawater, it forms carbonic acid, which then dissociates into hydrogen ions (H+) and bicarbonate ions (HCO3-). This process reduces the availability of carbonate ions (CO3^2-) in the water, as they combine with hydrogen ions to form bicarbonate ions. As a result, the concentration of carbonate ions decreases, making it more difficult for marine organisms to build and maintain their calcium carbonate shells and skeletons. This has significant implications for the health of marine ecosystems. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190 January 8 3 hours ago, notsonice said: Can't you count with a phd, experienced chemist and such???? what the fuck are you babbling about now???????? the 2nd graph is for carbonate ion concentration......GOT IT??????? Carbonate ions are good ions that buffer the lakes/oceans (help keep the system at a constant pH ) the buffering capacity in the oceans is not infinite.... Carbonate Ions are essential for marine life ........read below do you understand this chart??????????? bicarbonate ions increase (Carbonate ion concentration reduces as a result of the more CO2 additions) with more additions of CO2 into solution this leads to lowering of pH and this is not good go below ph 8 and you will not have carbonate ions in the water....(read the chart above) ....real bad and this is where the oceans are heading now add to much CO2 and the oceans go from basic to acidic and nothing will live in it when you add more CO2 into the system you lower the pH and this wipes out the systems ability to buffer itself. When you read the chart I presented in the earlier post, the Carbonate ion concentration is getting lower...(bicarbonate ions are increasing) Adding CO2 into any system lowers the pH and results in heavy metals going into solution....which is not good..... a little more on why Carbonate ion reduction is bad Ocean acidification occurs as a result of increased carbon dioxide (CO2) levels in the atmosphere, which leads to higher CO2 concentrations in the ocean. When CO2 dissolves in seawater, it forms carbonic acid, which then dissociates into hydrogen ions (H+) and bicarbonate ions (HCO3-). This process reduces the availability of carbonate ions (CO3^2-) in the water, as they combine with hydrogen ions to form bicarbonate ions. As a result, the concentration of carbonate ions decreases, making it more difficult for marine organisms to build and maintain their calcium carbonate shells and skeletons. This has significant implications for the health of marine ecosystems. Clown world... Is the Ocean pure salt water devoid of bacteria, algae, phytoplankton? Or are we going to base a discussion on REALITY? These things called bacteria/plankton, grab those increased levels of CO2 and NH3 levels have explosive GROWTH = explosive growth of vertebrates and fish species as their FOOD source has now exploded in quantity and quality. All fish have no problem breeding and surviving in at least 3000ppm at minimum. We have thousands upon thousands of studies on different fish species and vertebrates. Do NONE of you clowns READ anything other than FLUFF public relations garbage? Ever heard of a journal? Of course lately it has become fashionable to obtain grant money pretending CO2 increased levels is bad and makes carbonic acid in oceans ... It doesn't. Sure if there is no bacteria etc present... Instead we get lots and lots of plankton etc which sequester said Carbon with calcium making --> What? Lets see if the children paid attention in grade school... When are you CLOWNS going to finally admit, CO2 = BASE plant food on land and on the sea. Without it everything DIES. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190 January 8 (edited) Have you clowns never seen a Phytoplankton map of the ocean? Where do they grow and where do all of our crab, shrimp/fish grow? Where water is colder. Why cold water? Cold water HOLDS more CO2 YOU STUPID CLOWNS!!! https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Plankton_satellite_image.jpg#/media/File:Plankton_satellite_image.jpg You can literally trace all the worlds cold currents on this map as plankton levels and FISH levels, should be be willing to look at a map of the worlds oceans fisheries ajoin perfectly. Edited January 8 by footeab@yahoo.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,008 GE January 8 3 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said: Clown world... Is the Ocean pure salt water devoid of bacteria, algae, phytoplankton? Or are we going to base a discussion on REALITY? These things called bacteria/plankton, grab those increased levels of CO2 and NH3 levels have explosive GROWTH = explosive growth of vertebrates and fish species as their FOOD source has now exploded in quantity and quality. All fish have no problem breeding and surviving in at least 3000ppm at minimum. We have thousands upon thousands of studies on different fish species and vertebrates. Do NONE of you clowns READ anything other than FLUFF public relations garbage? Ever heard of a journal? Of course lately it has become fashionable to obtain grant money pretending CO2 increased levels is bad and makes carbonic acid in oceans ... It doesn't. Sure if there is no bacteria etc present... Instead we get lots and lots of plankton etc which sequester said Carbon with calcium making --> What? Lets see if the children paid attention in grade school... When are you CLOWNS going to finally admit, CO2 = BASE plant food on land and on the sea. Without it everything DIES. Show me a journal that says reduction of alkalinity (same thing as acidification, but you can't get over the fact the the ocean pH is above 7 so we can use different terminology) is good for the heath of shellfish and corals. You are once again using the "pollution is good argument" instead of denying the fact that changes are occurring. The world is complex, you pull at one string and the whole thing becomes unravelled. I actually have a university degree in chemistry and two decades of laboratory experience. You guys pretending to outsmart me is highly entertaining. Keep it up! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,008 GE January 8 (edited) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31715479/ "Multiple lines of evidence, ranging from time series field observations to climate change stimulation experiments demonstrate the negative effects of global warming and ocean acidification (OA) on bivalve molluscs. " https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25175059/ "Metabolic responses indicated that high CO2 exposure mainly caused disturbances in energy metabolism and osmotic regulation marked by differentially altered ATP, glucose, glycogen, amino acids and organic osmolytes in oysters, and the depletions of ATP in gills and the accumulations of ATP, glucose and glycogen in hepatopancreas accounted for the difference in energy distribution between these two tissues. Proteomic responses suggested that OA could not only affect energy and primary metabolisms, stress responses and calcium homeostasis in both tissues, but also influence the nucleotide metabolism in gills and cytoskeleton structure in hepatopancreas." https://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/story/Ocean+Acidification's+impact+on+oysters+and+other+shellfish "Sarah Cooley studies the socioeconomic impacts of altered oceans at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution in Massachusetts. She and other researchers project acidification could reduce U.S. shellfish harvests by as much as 25 percent over the next 50 years. [] But what we are looking at is probably on the order of tens to hundreds of millions of dollars (lost) just related to the shellfish fishery in this country alone, because it's a $740 million industry." Edited January 8 by TailingsPond Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,008 GE January 8 9 hours ago, specinho said: b) your pH, however, has reduced ~ 0.5 in value. 8.55 to 8.50; 8.40 to 8.35 etc. You know pH is on a log scale right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Polyphia + 83 LT January 8 6 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said: Have you clowns never seen a Phytoplankton map of the ocean? Where do they grow and where do all of our crab, shrimp/fish grow? Where water is colder. Why cold water? Cold water HOLDS more CO2 YOU STUPID CLOWNS!!! https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Plankton_satellite_image.jpg#/media/File:Plankton_satellite_image.jpg You can literally trace all the worlds cold currents on this map as plankton levels and FISH levels, should be be willing to look at a map of the worlds oceans fisheries ajoin perfectly. He must be super excited about phytoplankton; he actually included--gasp--a link. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM January 8 On 1/8/2024 at 6:23 AM, footeab@yahoo.com said: Clown world... Is the Ocean pure salt water devoid of bacteria, algae, phytoplankton? Or are we going to base a discussion on REALITY? These things called bacteria/plankton, grab those increased levels of CO2 and NH3 levels have explosive GROWTH = explosive growth of vertebrates and fish species as their FOOD source has now exploded in quantity and quality. All fish have no problem breeding and surviving in at least 3000ppm at minimum. We have thousands upon thousands of studies on different fish species and vertebrates. Do NONE of you clowns READ anything other than FLUFF public relations garbage? Ever heard of a journal? Of course lately it has become fashionable to obtain grant money pretending CO2 increased levels is bad and makes carbonic acid in oceans ... It doesn't. Sure if there is no bacteria etc present... Instead we get lots and lots of plankton etc which sequester said Carbon with calcium making --> What? Lets see if the children paid attention in grade school... When are you CLOWNS going to finally admit, CO2 = BASE plant food on land and on the sea. Without it everything DIES. thanks for the dead fish.....you can eat all you want.......enjoy the aftermath of your increasing CO2.... Wilmington Star-News Algal blooms and fish kills increasing in NC due to warming weather The blooms, while rarely fatal to humans, can cause irritations such as skin rashes, burns, and blistering of the mouth and other more serious... . Aug 18, 2023 KQED Last Summer's Fish-Killing Algae Bloom Is Back in the Bay Local agencies are closely monitoring a brown stretch of water that first appeared along parts of the East Bay shoreline last week and is... . Jul 31, 2023 The Oaklandside Algae bloom that caused Lake Merritt fish kill is spotted along East Bay shoreline A harmful algal bloom known as a red tide is spreading through Berkeley Marina, and scientists believe it's the same species that caused a... . Aug 1, 2023 San Francisco Chronicle Fish-killing toxic algae bloom has left San Francisco Bay for now A bloom of Heterosigma akashiwo, the same organism that killed countless fish in San Francisco Bay and Lake Merritt last summer, was detected in... . Aug 18, 2023 WMFE Indian River Lagoon saw 'fairly extensive' fish kills this year The Indian River Lagoon's algae bloom this year extended farther south into the lagoon than normal, coinciding with fairly extensive fish... . Oct 18, 2023 KSAT Toxic red tide bloom along parts of Texas coast is killing fish, sharks A toxic red tide bloom appears to be killing fish and sharks in some areas along the Texas coast. . Sep 22, 2023 The Washington Post What is red tide and why is it killing fish in Florida? Harmful algae blooms are painting coastal shores in southwest Florida red and leaving swaths of dead fish — just weeks before thousands of... . Mar 6, 2023 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,008 GE January 8 (edited) 9 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said: Have you clowns never seen a Phytoplankton map of the ocean? Where do they grow and where do all of our crab, shrimp/fish grow? Where water is colder. Why cold water? Cold water HOLDS more CO2 YOU So you think cold water is good, OK, now do the math with a warming planet. Did you read some journals yet? Still waiting on a paper from you showing the beneficial effects of CO2 / acidification on ocean ecosystems. I showed you several to the contrary and a real-world demonstrated negative economic effect. Edited January 8 by TailingsPond 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specinho + 470 January 9 (edited) 21 hours ago, notsonice said: Can't you count with a phd, experienced chemist and such???? what the fuck are you babbling about now???????? the 2nd graph is for carbonate ion concentration......GOT IT??????? Carbonate ions are good ions that buffer the lakes/oceans (help keep the system at a constant pH ) the buffering capacity in the oceans is not infinite.... Carbonate Ions are essential for marine life ........read below do you understand this chart??????????? bicarbonate ions increase (Carbonate ion concentration reduces as a result of the more CO2 additions) with more additions of CO2 into solution this leads to lowering of pH and this is not good go below ph 8 and you will not have carbonate ions in the water....(read the chart above) ....real bad and this is where the oceans are heading now add to much CO2 and the oceans go from basic to acidic and nothing will live in it when you add more CO2 into the system you lower the pH and this wipes out the systems ability to buffer itself. When you read the chart I presented in the earlier post, the Carbonate ion concentration is getting lower...(bicarbonate ions are increasing) Adding CO2 into any system lowers the pH and results in heavy metals going into solution....which is not good..... a little more on why Carbonate ion reduction is bad Ocean acidification occurs as a result of increased carbon dioxide (CO2) levels in the atmosphere, which leads to higher CO2 concentrations in the ocean. When CO2 dissolves in seawater, it forms carbonic acid, which then dissociates into hydrogen ions (H+) and bicarbonate ions (HCO3-). This process reduces the availability of carbonate ions (CO3^2-) in the water, as they combine with hydrogen ions to form bicarbonate ions. As a result, the concentration of carbonate ions decreases, making it more difficult for marine organisms to build and maintain their calcium carbonate shells and skeletons. This has significant implications for the health of marine ecosystems. The more you try to explain your scientific theory or academic concept, the further away you are from right basic. You couldn't even get definition of alkaline right at the end of your explanation. There is a reason why academic or scientific naration does not work in real life. The way things are presented compulse by minimum word counts distract key info from being known. Quote below copied from a discussion illustrates the scenario: "Academic Philosophy is abused of language to confuse the simpletons with no time until they give up thinking, just memorising. Similarly, in an academic essay or paper, one has to make ideas into long sentences and paragraphs owing to minimum words count demanded. Contra to philosophy in life, one conveys the key idea in few impactful words. For example: In real life: The weather is good. I go out for a walk. In an essay..... "Today is 8th of June 2023. Clouds are fluffy, hanging loosely in the sky. The sun has just waken up from the east with a warmth greeting. Birds woke up early to find food, before the food is eaten by others. Standing near the floor-ceiling glass panel, i decide to brush my teeth, drink my milk, eat my toasts, take a leak and go out for a walk....." Lengthy description distracts people from getting the right key info. If you write it with superfluous words that few could understand, it would be a perfect way to make others agree things your way because they can not understand but just node in respect of your so called expertise.... Therefore, we should no longer rely on academicians and scientists on their concepts and findings but go back to basic discovered in ancient time by passionate or curious pioneers..... 'o' 'n' Edited January 9 by specinho 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specinho + 470 January 9 13 hours ago, TailingsPond said: You know pH is on a log scale right? What are you trying to say? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specinho + 470 January 9 (edited) On 1/8/2024 at 3:18 AM, Eyes Wide Open said: Ahh you do mean sulfur dioxide emissions do you not? Better said world wide trade...Interesting topic..just who owns those tanker fleets, How 16 ships create as much pollution as all the cars in the world Bunker fuel is also thick with sulphur. IMO rules allow ships to burn fuel containing up to 4.5 per cent sulphur. That is 4,500 times more than is allowed in car fuel in the European Union. The sulphur comes out of ship funnels as tiny particles, and it is these that get deep into lungs. Thanks to the IMO’s rules, the largest ships can each emit as much as 5,000 tons of sulphur in a year – the same as 50million typical cars, each emitting an average of 100 grams of sulphur a year. With an estimated 800million cars driving around the planet, that means 16 super-ships can emit as much sulphur as the world fleet of cars. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1229857/How-16-ships-create-pollution-cars-world.html Only to be compounded....it's time these offending nations to pay the Sulfur Tax...say goodbye to the Paris accords... A Shipping Rule Backfires, Diverting Sulfur Emissions From the Air to the Ocean https://insideclimatenews.org/news/17072023/ship-scrubbers-water-pollution/ World fleet development and composition In January 2023, the world’s merchant fleet consisted of 105 500 vessels of at least 100 gross tons (gt), of which 56 500 ships were over 1000 gt. Of the ships built in 2022, in gross tonnage terms, 93 per cent were completed in China, the Republic of Korea or Japan. Ship recycling happened predominately in India, Bangladesh or Pakistan. These economies jointly accounted for 86 per cent of ships recycled (on a gt basis). The world fleet reached a carrying capacity of 2.3 billion dead weight tons (dwt) in January 2023, 70 million dwt more than a year ago. Oil tankers, bulk carriers, and container ships accounted for 85 per cent of total capacity. World fleet capacity has expanded at varying rates over time. Growth in dwt averaged a firm annual 7.1 per cent between 2005 and 2010. Reflecting a consolidation in shipbuilding capacity and a downsizing of the ship financing market, the average annual growth has decelerated to 4.1 per cent per year since 2010. For a discussion of recent developments, see (UNCTAD, 2023b). https://hbs.unctad.org/merchant-fleet/ Pardon my ignorant... Just curious. 1. Many years ago, a refinery in east coast of a small country showed piles of sulphur accummulated. The operator was asking what to do with it. If this is true, shouldn't sulphur be removed during refinery? Why is there a high content in ship fuel? 2. Recalling this image saw ages ago. When crude oil is heated up, separation happens due to different boiling points of different products. If sulphur, an essential element exists in protein of living things, not burned during millions of high heat and pressure underground, it must have been gasified during heating process. Or no? Edited January 9 by specinho 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eyes Wide Open + 3,555 January 9 (edited) 1 hour ago, specinho said: If this is true, shouldn't sulphur be removed during refinery? Why is there a high content in ship fuel? Below have a read, high sulphur content causes acid rain. Nasty stuff in high accumulation areas over time. If you like to play with numbers total the sum of the marine shipping fleet. You will find that number runs around 150000. If I remember correctly those numbers show shipping polluting about 3000 times more than all the worlds autos combined. Heavy fuel oil (HFO) is a category of fuel oils of a tar-like consistency. Also known as bunker fuel, or residual fuel oil, HFO is the result or remnant from the distillation and cracking process of petroleum. For this reason, HFO is contaminated with several different compounds including aromatics, sulfur, and nitrogen, making emissions upon combustion more polluting compared to other fuel oils.[1] HFO is predominantly used as a fuel source for marine vessel propulsion using marine diesel engines due to its relatively low cost compared to cleaner fuel sources such as distillates.[2][3] The use and carriage of HFO on-board vessels presents several https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_fuel_oil#:~:text=Heavy fuel oil (HFO) is,and cracking process of petroleum. The Legacy of EPA’s Acid Rain Research https://www.epa.gov/sciencematters/legacy-epas-acid-rain-research#:~:text=While normal rainwater is slightly,of increasing acidity were widespread. Edited January 9 by Eyes Wide Open 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP January 9 3 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said: Below have a read, high sulphur content causes acid rain. Nasty stuff in high accumulation areas over time. If you like to play with numbers total the sum of the marine shipping fleet. You will find that number runs around 150000. If I remember correctly those numbers show shipping polluting about 3000 times more than all the worlds autos combined. Heavy fuel oil (HFO) is a category of fuel oils of a tar-like consistency. Also known as bunker fuel, or residual fuel oil, HFO is the result or remnant from the distillation and cracking process of petroleum. For this reason, HFO is contaminated with several different compounds including aromatics, sulfur, and nitrogen, making emissions upon combustion more polluting compared to other fuel oils.[1] HFO is predominantly used as a fuel source for marine vessel propulsion using marine diesel engines due to its relatively low cost compared to cleaner fuel sources such as distillates.[2][3] The use and carriage of HFO on-board vessels presents several https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_fuel_oil#:~:text=Heavy fuel oil (HFO) is,and cracking process of petroleum. The Legacy of EPA’s Acid Rain Research https://www.epa.gov/sciencematters/legacy-epas-acid-rain-research#:~:text=While normal rainwater is slightly,of increasing acidity were widespread. EWO well done you finally realise that burning FF isnt good for the environment and is very pollutive and example the shipping industry above. In fairness they reduced their Sox and Nox pollution limits significantly recently but are now looking into other forms of propulsion from SMR's, electric, ammonia/hydrogen to good old fashioned wind assisted to reduce shipping emissions. The above sounds like you are championing green alternatives 👋 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,008 GE January 9 (edited) 6 hours ago, specinho said: Therefore, we should no longer rely on academicians and scientists on their concepts and findings but go back to basic discovered in ancient time by passionate or curious pioneers..... 'o' 'n' Haha. He wants to abandon modern science; well he actually said "go back to basic discovered in ancient time" but I translated that to English. Specinho, feel free to turn off the computer you use anytime, go back to discovering concepts like they did in ancient times. When you understand how to engineer, assemble, and program a computer we will welcome you back! Edited January 9 by TailingsPond 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,008 GE January 9 5 hours ago, specinho said: Pardon my ignorant... Just curious. He is so ignorant he doesn't know the word he should use is ignorance. The guy can barely read and write yet thinks he can outsmart academics. This forum is entertainment gold. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specinho + 470 January 10 (edited) 22 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said: Below have a read, high sulphur content causes acid rain. Nasty stuff in high accumulation areas over time. If you like to play with numbers total the sum of the marine shipping fleet. You will find that number runs around 150000. If I remember correctly those numbers show shipping polluting about 3000 times more than all the worlds autos combined. Heavy fuel oil (HFO) is a category of fuel oils of a tar-like consistency. Also known as bunker fuel, or residual fuel oil, HFO is the result or remnant from the distillation and cracking process of petroleum. For this reason, HFO is contaminated with several different compounds including aromatics, sulfur, and nitrogen, making emissions upon combustion more polluting compared to other fuel oils.[1] HFO is predominantly used as a fuel source for marine vessel propulsion using marine diesel engines due to its relatively low cost compared to cleaner fuel sources such as distillates.[2][3] The use and carriage of HFO on-board vessels presents several https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_fuel_oil#:~:text=Heavy fuel oil (HFO) is,and cracking process of petroleum. The Legacy of EPA’s Acid Rain Research https://www.epa.gov/sciencematters/legacy-epas-acid-rain-research#:~:text=While normal rainwater is slightly,of increasing acidity were widespread. I see. The longer the carbon chain, the longer it can be burnt, besides being much cheaper. They probably can consider making waste products produced cleaner e.g. 1. Black fume represents incomplete combustion. To improve this, multiple air inlets and venting pipes? -a) more large air inlets supplying oxygen found in the air. Efficiency of combustion would be improved, hopefully produces less black smoke. b) multiple venting pipes ensure filter used to trap carbon particle will not be clogged too quickly. Cotton clothing or toweling material is highly aerable but could trap carbon efficiently. If there is a possibility of layering, shift down the filter column when the bottom is taken out for washing or cleaning, the waste gas would be cleaner. 2. If the clothe is wetted with water, acidic gas can be dissolved and retained, instead of released. And/ Or, alkaline compound can be used to neutralize sulphuric acid or nitric acid formed upon combining with waste water vapour. Calsium hydroxide is known to neutralize co2, sulphuric acid and nitric acid. 3. If bunker fuel can be burnt for longer hours, would it be more suitable to boil and sustain boiled water? Would steam engine be good enough for a modern cargo ship? Edited January 10 by specinho 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM January 10 On 1/8/2024 at 9:27 PM, specinho said: The more you try to explain your scientific theory or academic concept, the further away you are from right basic. You couldn't even get definition of alkaline right at the end of your explanation. There is a reason why academic or scientific naration does not work in real life. The way things are presented compulse by minimum word counts distract key info from being known. Quote below copied from a discussion illustrates the scenario: "Academic Philosophy is abused of language to confuse the simpletons with no time until they give up thinking, just memorising. Similarly, in an academic essay or paper, one has to make ideas into long sentences and paragraphs owing to minimum words count demanded. Contra to philosophy in life, one conveys the key idea in few impactful words. For example: In real life: The weather is good. I go out for a walk. In an essay..... "Today is 8th of June 2023. Clouds are fluffy, hanging loosely in the sky. The sun has just waken up from the east with a warmth greeting. Birds woke up early to find food, before the food is eaten by others. Standing near the floor-ceiling glass panel, i decide to brush my teeth, drink my milk, eat my toasts, take a leak and go out for a walk....." Lengthy description distracts people from getting the right key info. If you write it with superfluous words that few could understand, it would be a perfect way to make others agree things your way because they can not understand but just node in respect of your so called expertise.... Therefore, we should no longer rely on academicians and scientists on their concepts and findings but go back to basic discovered in ancient time by passionate or curious pioneers..... 'o' 'n' dude you are babbling again......... you obviously do not understand pH as it applies to the oceans and you do not understand inorganic/organic aqueous chemistry. do us all a favor, go buy yourself a book on aqueous chemistry, head to school for a few years, then get a job working with water solutions where alkalinity and pH matters before you post more BS Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eyes Wide Open + 3,555 January 10 (edited) 20 hours ago, specinho said: . Black fume represents incomplete combustion. To improve this, multiple air inlets and venting pipes? Your quite close in your thoughts. Combustion efficiency is truly a beast, made overly simple getting high efficiency means a violent explosion destroying the engine itself. Controlling that process into something manageable (slow burn) leaves artifacts.. pollution. Oddly enough modern solutions actually changed the composition of fuel. Removing sulphur was employed in this case. Only then to be recycled for marine use..lol imagine that. Cheap dirty energy being used by international countries, countries that decry autos..countries that pay no penalties into the Paris accords...A absurd joke is being played out on the world. Take the time to see who owns these international shipping fleets...It will be Eye Opening. Overly simplified..to a extent yes...It just what is is. Edited January 11 by Eyes Wide Open 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specinho + 470 January 11 10 hours ago, notsonice said: dude you are babbling again......... you obviously do not understand pH as it applies to the oceans and you do not understand inorganic/organic aqueous chemistry. do us all a favor, go buy yourself a book on aqueous chemistry, head to school for a few years, then get a job working with water solutions where alkalinity and pH matters before you post more BS Go on....... define "alkaline" . 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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