Pros and Cons of Coal

[DA? + 301]

27 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

Coal for what?  Coal for heating?  The big pro is that is can be easily smuggled, thus a retail heating fuel that is cheap, when confronted with leftists that seek to impose a "carbon tax" on it, and oil of course. And even propane,just to round it out.  It is a dense material that contains quite a lot of heat potential - more than any other material. 

Coal for electricity?  Nobody seems to want to do that any more, in part due to the "con" of particulates and smog components of combustion. And there's your con: components of direct burning.  But then again, the same people that seek to effectively outlaw coal flatly refuse to let engineers develop nuclear plants for electricity.  A molten-salt plant that burns old contaminated nuclear material and the stuff from military warheads will remove the nuclear waste and provide free fuel, but the leftists don't want to do that.  So you are back to coal.  There is a lot of coal out there, and it is cheap enough, and it contains lots of potential heat energy in rock form. 

Coal for oil?  That technology is cheap enough, very mature technology, so coal is a great source for diesel fuel or gasoline. And there is your (another) "pro" for coal. But nobody wants to do that, except the Governor of Montana.  He has lots of coal.

Coal for steelmaking?  Sure, coal is used both for the heat, and for the addition of pure carbon into various grades of steel.  If what you are doing is re-using old scrap steel, you can do that electrically, with an electric-arc reduction furnace, if you can afford the electricity.  But if you don't have nuke plants and there is not enough hydro out there, and the idea of using windmills is faintly silly, then you are left with using coal, nice hot coal, gets you where you want to go. Of course, you can also go without steel, apparently the end product of leftist thinking. 

So you see that the use of coal is controlled more by leftist thinking than any technical aspect of the material.  The thread developed into discussions of Hamilton and its generation of coke from coal, and its use (and the future of) in steelmaking, a large consumer of the product.  Can baghouse filters remove the particulates from the burn outflow gases of burning coal?  Of course they can. Does that resolve the leftist problem?  Nope. 

This thread ran through these topics.  Does this summarize for you?  Cheers.

 

Oh dear, back to smuggling coal, renting that truck, paying that diesel and all that time, this makes sense?

More potential heat energy than any other material?

Coal for electricity, take a look at the recent Lazard Levelized Cost of Energy Analysis, that put's that one to bed.

Nuclear, great if it could be run well for a competitive cost, again look at that before mentioned analysis.

Coal for oil, cheap enough, yawn.

Have to admit you got something sort of right "using windmills is fairly silly", I'd say more than fairly. Wind turbines well that's different, did I mention looking at a certain analysis?

Coal isn't actually a requirement for making steel other methods exist.

Coal is dying not from some leftist agenda but from economics. Look whos in power in the USA, very pro coal, whats happened since tRump's in coal has dropped far faster than under the previous president.

What you have summarized is an outdated opinion that ignores the facts.

 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

34 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

  It is a dense material that contains quite a lot of heat potential - more than any other material. 

 

 

Not even close to true. 

Even if you are talking about heat of formation (and it's potential release) there are more energy dense substances.  Also "heat" as in the temperature increase from burning is higher in many lower energy density fuels as the products of reaction don't require as much heating (think of an acetylene torch - low energy density but massively hot flame due to low water formation).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hess's_law

Once again smuggling is not a pro - why not just steal, or deal drugs, or any other form of illegal activity.  

 

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

5 minutes ago, Enthalpic said:

(think of an acetylene torch - low energy density but massively hot flame due to low water formation).

 

Try heating your house out in rural America with an oxy-acetylene torch and let the rest of us know how you make out. Should be an interesting project.

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

7 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

Try heating your house out in rural America with an oxy-acetylene torch and let the rest of us know how you make out. Should be an interesting project.

I'm a chem geek who lives in Alberta - it's super cold here.  Everyone has natural gas lines - people would die if we needed truckloads of coal or heating oil delivered during brutal cold snaps / storms.  At -40C not much moves.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Enthalpic

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

30 minutes ago, Enthalpic said:

I'm a chem geek who lives in Alberta - it's super cold here.  Everyone has natural gas lines - people would die if we needed truckloads of coal or heating oil delivered during brutal cold snaps / storms.  At -40C not much moves.

The rural poor in Vermont live under the same conditions.  Except, of course, that the leftists insist that oil and propane use is inherently evil, so they want to tax it another dollar a gallon. One large problem is that the housing stock is old and worn-out, basically they are energy hogs on a good day.  Right now Vermonters keep their thermostat set at only 50 degrees F., because they cannot afford to buy the oil.  There is no nat-gas, and never will be, due to the rock and very thin soil cover, mostly a foot or less. Nobody is going to pay to blast a gas pipeline through rock to serve isolated houses. 

People here die right now for lack of heat. And you are prepared to sit back and watch the leftists put the price of heating oil up by another dollar a gallon?  Nobody has the money for that. So the logical response is that the rural poor will take to smuggling coal over the Border. There is no other solution.  And this is what happens when ridiculous people living in cities go fantasize about the world.  I call those people "limousine liberals;" they fantasize about the world and dream up seriously dangerous ideas while settling back in their nice (and expensive) home sipping Chablis.  

Right now I have just sent $300  to an elderly widow, age 83, who has to set her stat at 50 because she has no money.  The report is that her fingers are literally blue due to the cold - indoors. And that offends me. That furnace dates back to 1983 and is worn out.  She has zero money to fix, not to mention replace. I will go fund the $16,000 to replace that heating system. And the leftists want to increase her heating bill by yet another $300 a tank.  Are these people nuts?  What is wrong with these leftists?  Why do they insist on beating up on the poor and the old? 

And yes, to defeat them, I will personally go buy coal in New York and distribute it from the back of a truck to the rural poor.  I will buy the coal, and I will distribute it free.  Just to thwart these mean, miserable leftists and their bottles of Chablis. 

Edited November 13, 2018 by Jan van Eck

[DA? + 301]

37 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

The rural poor in Vermont live under the same conditions.  Except, of course, that the leftists insist that oil and propane use is inherently evil, so they want to tax it another dollar a gallon. One large problem is that the housing stock is old and worn-out, basically they are energy hogs on a good day.  Right now Vermonters keep their thermostat set at only 50 degrees F., because they cannot afford to buy the oil.  There is no nat-gas, and never will be, due to the rock and very thin soil cover, mostly a foot or less. Nobody is going to pay to blast a gas pipeline through rock to serve isolated houses. 

People here die right now for lack of heat. And you are prepared to sit back and watch the leftists put the price of heating oil up by another dollar a gallon?  Nobody has the money for that. So the logical response is that the rural poor will take to smuggling coal over the Border. There is no other solution.  And this is what happens when ridiculous people living in cities go fantasize about the world.  I call those people "limousine liberals;" they fantasize about the world and dream up seriously dangerous ideas while settling back in their nice (and expensive) home sipping Chablis.  

Right now I have just sent $300  to an elderly widow, age 83, who has to set her stat at 50 because she has no money.  The report is that her fingers are literally blue due to the cold - indoors. And that offends me. That furnace dates back to 1983 and is worn out.  She has zero money to fix, not to mention replace. I will go fund the $16,000 to replace that heating system. And the leftists want to increase her heating bill by yet another $300 a tank.  Are these people nuts?  What is wrong with these leftists?  Why do they insist on beating up on the poor and the old? 

And yes, to defeat them, I will personally go buy coal in New York and distribute it from the back of a truck to the rural poor.  I will buy the coal, and I will distribute it free.  Just to thwart these mean, miserable leftists and their bottles of Chablis. 

Well that's a very nice thing you did for the woman, are you a secret leftie?

It's sad when such a wealthy country has people that live in such poverty and the President can't even afford a helicopter that can fly in the rain.

Best thing you could do for these poor people that can't afford energy to keep their houses warm is get behind renewables. They just about all have power lines attached to their houses, lets make electricity cheap. And the way to make electricity cheap is to encourage more renewables. Have I mentioned the Lazard Analysis? Also make lobby your local politician to make housing regulation on new build insulation better, negative energy is the cheapest energy.    

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

11 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

Breaking laws for money isn't really ingenious... 

Using the term ingenious to describe smuggling is as old as smuggling.  No reason he should not use it in his colorful description.

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

12 hours ago, DA? said:

Well that's a very nice thing you did for the woman, are you a secret leftie?

It's sad when such a wealthy country has people that live in such poverty

Haha

The guy is more left that he currently thinks... actually supports transfer of wealth like a decent human.

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

14 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

One large problem is that the housing stock is old and worn-out, basically they are energy hogs on a good day.

 

Our lefty Govt provided massive subsidies for energy audits and tax exemptions / rebates for improvements to: hot water heaters, furnaces, light bulbs, etc.

Give a woman coal you keep her warm for a day...

https://www.efficiencyalberta.ca/

 

Edited November 13, 2018 by Enthalpic

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

13 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

The rural poor in Vermont live under the same conditions. 

I feel bad that not only do I have natural gas that keeps me warm but also underground heated parking... heck even the driveway is self-cleaning via the boiler.

I'm still a lefty because I don't complain about taxes as I know they help the less fortunate.

 

I drink cheap beer

[TONNIO + 1]

Anyone see making this one making it big, Clean Coal Technologies Inc?. I won a lottery almost nine years ago and just before it I had invested a small amount through a company that I found online, who turned out to be one of those boiler room companies, Pump and Dump. The majority of the win was scammed and the only company that seems to still exist is the one above. It was one of the smaller investment amounts. I check ever so often but they seem to be going anywhere. Any advice is welcome good or bad. I am over the shock of it all.

 

 

[Justin Thyme + 24]

On 11/13/2018 at 4:09 AM, Jan van Eck said:

The rural poor in Vermont live under the same conditions.

There is no other solution. 

She has zero money to fix, not to mention replace.

And yes, to defeat them, I will personally go buy coal in New York and distribute it from the back of a truck to the rural poor. 

You are trying to solve the wrong problem.

Isn't the problem, basically, that they are uneducated, unskilled, illiterate, and have no social support mechanisms? That they have zero chance of any meaningful employment, and thus are cast aside by American society as 'trash'?

The cost or availability of coal is not the issue. A socially stratified society is the problem.

isn't the solution to educate them, to implement a minimum basic wage, provide them with social supports, and basic government incentives to help them bring their houses up to standard?

Seems to me, the entire problem is a political system that believes in oppressing the poor to the point of starvation and freezing to death, by withholding proper socially responsible supports. In no civilized society should such poverty be allowed. In ten years, in China such poverty will be totally eradicated by concerted government action. 

Seems to me you would be better off electing a socialist government that believed in supporting the most vulnerable people, instead of insisting on supporting corporation oligarchs to maximize their profits. One day's income that Apple got from their tax concessions would bring every single resident of Vermont out of poverty for a year, Yet you Americans believe that it is better to protect the rights of corporate America to perpetuate their greed than to keep some 80 year old grandmother from freezing to death,.

Instead, you believe in a governmental system that believes social responsibility is a dirty word, and that only the privileged deserve to share in the prosperity of the nation. But, oh, you can smuggle in coal. That will solve the problem. AND you get to keep your oligarchy, disguising it as democracy. 

Keeping people impoverished is the right of every upper economic class citizen, apparently, written right into your Constitution.

And throwing a free lump of smuggled coal to the poor allows you to sleep at night.

There are LOTS of other solutions, America just chooses not to consider them.

But it is precisely your misdirected hate that is tearing America apart.

[Justin Thyme + 24]

On 11/13/2018 at 4:09 AM, Jan van Eck said:

 There is no nat-gas, and never will be, due to the rock and very thin soil cover, mostly a foot or less. Nobody is going to pay to blast a gas pipeline through rock to serve isolated houses. 

Propane is delivered in trucks, to refill propane tanks. No need to blast through rocks. it is delivered just like coal, or oil. used quite extensively up here in Canada. One large propane tank has the same equivalent energy to a tank of oil. And it is a lot cheaper. For the energy content, much better than coal. That's why everyone now mostly uses propane BBQs in Canada, not the old briquettes.

Maybe you Americans are so backward, you don't know about it.

[Justin Thyme + 24]

On 11/8/2018 at 3:55 AM, Jan van Eck said:

P.S.  I see coal coming back as a fuel for railway steam engines.  What is little known outside rail circles is that the last iterations of steam locomotives out-performed diesel engines in terms of fuel use.  The "oil engine"  [diesel] only made its headway due to rail labor unions, which up-staffed the steam engines and put the labor costs to the point where they could not be economically run.  As the diesel did not need a "fireman," the locomotive could be run by one man, not three. That is a big difference in the wage bill. 

Railway steam engines? Transatlantic steamers using coal?

Have you seen the SIZE of the coal bunkers in the old steam ships? The coal tenders of steam engines? The amount of water the old steam engines had to carry? And the fires they caused by escaping coal embers along the tracks?

Sorry, not realistic. Coal takes up too much cargo space. 

And you can not 'pump' coal into the fuel tank.

Not to mention that is is too dirty to handle.

[Justin Thyme + 24]

On 11/12/2018 at 6:49 AM, Jan van Eck said:

It was that part about the Chinese colonizing the Moon and being on Mars that got me.  Oh, and that part about Canadians refusing to drink American milk because it was such rotten stuff, but Americans drink whatever swill is put in front of them.  Pretty much sums up the whole discourse on Canadian dairy supply management, right there!  

 

Hit a nerve, did I?

Called your bluff, and all you can do is quote disjointed, irrelevant facts that you obviously googled.

How does it feel to come up against someone who uses facts, not hyperbole? 

But, alas, you demonstrate all the qualities of a typical narcissistic American - everyone else is wrong, and only you are correct. And when you are called out, obfuscate and bluster and babble.

Hope you can speak Mandarin, because that will be the language of business in the future,

They will have both fusion energy (they are now the world leaders in developing it) and direct coal-to-energy technologies (they are also world leaders in the technology). Americans keep saying it is impossible, just like it was impossible for Kim to have a nuclear fusions bomb. Until he set one off. 

You Americans are so narcissistic, you insist that, if you can not do it, no one else can. And if they do it, then it is fake. Until you wake up, and you have to buy the technology from some other country. 

Well, with respect to coal, China is doing an end run around you, and you are too blindly narcissistic to see it. They WILL,within ten years, own every coal field  and coal generating plant in America.

'Chinese financial institutions are the world's largest investor of overseas coal plants, pumping in $15 billion in coal projects from 2013 to 2016 through international development funds, according to the Natural Resources Defense Council, a U.S.-based non-profit environmental advocacy group. There's another $13 billion in proposed funding.'

from https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/06/china-is-massively-betting-on-coal-outside-its-shores--even-as-investment-falls-globally.html

Why? Because they already know they will be able to use coal cleanly, as an energy source, and see it as the abundant clean energy of the future. But, of course, they are keeping it under wraps, until they have controlled the world market.

'China set for world's largest clean coal power system by 2020' from http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/business/2017-09/20/content_32247208.htm

and

'Ultra-supercritical coal power plant technology is also expected to help plants meet stricter standards. These plants ignite coal at a much higher temperature (1400°F) and higher internal pressure levels (more than 5,000 pounds per square inch) than traditional subcritical plants, which allows them to generate electricity more efficiently. According to a recent report by the Center for American Progress (CAP), Beijing has made far more strides than Washington on this front, as more than 90% of China’s 100 most efficient coal plants are equipped with ultra-supercritical technologies, compared with only 0.76% in the US.'

from https://www.chinadialogue.net/blog/9876-China-s-clean-coal-power-A-viable-model-or-cautionary-tale-/en

Also see

'

Abstract

Coal is the dominant primary energy source in China and the major source of greenhouse gases and air pollutants. To facilitate the use of coal in an environmentally satisfactory and economically viable way, clean coal technologies (CCTs) are necessary. This paper presents a review of recent research and development of four kinds of CCTs: coal power generation; coal conversion; pollution control; and carbon capture, utilization, and storage. It also outlines future perspectives on directions for technology research and development (R&D). This review shows that China has made remarkable progress in the R&D of CCTs, and that a number of CCTs have now entered into the commercialization stage'

from https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2095809917300814

But, alas, maybe China will leave you a lump of coal, so you can heat your homes. After all, China does have a social conscience.

Edited November 18, 2018 by Justin Thyme

[catch22 + 244]

Ok its pretty clear now that you have ties to china - posting in every subject with reference to china and against that of america. At least we know where your preference lies. However you are a hypocrite! You are living in a country born from democracy and with the freedom to do and say as you please - fantastic isnt it - yet you advocate the benefits of a communist regime!

China has a social conscience? Have you even been to china? Have you seen the poverty? Have you seen the environmental destruction? Have you had the misfortune to breathe the polluted air that plagues their cities? If you have been there - were your eyes wide shut simply because you have family ties or history there?! Or more likely - were you privileged enough to be born into a wealthy chinese family who now seeks a quality education outisde of china - in canada -  and really have no idea how an average chinese citizen lives?

You are the one obfusticating in your everyday life - go and live in china for 5 years without your wealthy families support, without your privelege of canadian democracy-  then come back with an educated opinion of the real world rather than your idealistic version concocted on a university campus. i met plenty of people from Canadian universities whilst i was travelling around the world... all of them were so disconnected from reality it was scary - just as scary as you see those Americans lost in their narcissism... They had no idea why or how they were able to enjoy the lifestyles they had... instead they were full of opinions like "let in all the refugees" and "no limits on immigration"  and "peace on earth" etc etc. Great in theory - but it doesnt work in practice because its complicated... just like every university graduate who thinks they know it all but in practice knows nothing...

FYI - theres no such thing as clean coal. Its a hydrocarbon fuel, burning it generates Co2, END OF STORY...

Edited November 18, 2018 by catch22

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

8 hours ago, Justin Thyme said:

 

Isn't the problem, basically, that they are uneducated, unskilled, illiterate, and have no social support mechanisms? That they have zero chance of any meaningful employment, and thus are cast aside by American society as 'trash'?

.......................................................

isn't the solution to educate them, ............

Yet you Americans believe that it is better to protect the rights of corporate America to perpetuate their greed than to keep some 80 year old grandmother from freezing to death,.

......................................................

Instead, you believe in a governmental system that believes social responsibility is a dirty word, and that only the privileged deserve to share in the prosperity of the nation. But, oh, you can smuggle in coal. That will solve the problem. AND you get to keep your oligarchy, disguising it as democracy. 

Keeping people impoverished is the right of every upper economic class citizen, apparently, written right into your Constitution.

...........................................

But it is precisely your misdirected hate that is tearing America apart.

Wow>  

Now, that is impressive.  It has been while since I have been personally lambasted so thoroughly. Refreshing, actually. 

Let's review: the person I sent some cash to is a retired schoolteacher, now age 83.  There is nothing "uneducated" or "unskilled" about her.  She was stopped at a traffic light in Bennington when a State-owned dump truck crashed into her auto, demolishing it and injuring her.  The driver of that truck had an abysmal record, should not have been behind the wheel of any heavy vehicle, and admitted that he had been ogling the pretty girls in the short skirts on the summer sidewalk.  He never even hit the brakes.  The State was (and continues to be) controlled by the hard left, the "DemoProgs"  [Democrat/Progressive alliance].  The State of Vermont handles claims against the State though the office of the Attorney General, at that time that was BIll Sorrell.  He refused to settle the claim, and after draining her wallet in legal fees for two years eventually paid $10,000, which did not even cover the replacement of the car, never mind the legal bills.  Sorrell's leftist ideas of compensation was for the State to go find another wrecked car, one from a front-end smash, cut the two cars in half, and then weld up the two "good" halves to make a "new" repaired car for the victim.  Just lovely idea. 

So now she is in forced retirement; still injured, unable to lift even firewood. She is a classic victim of the arrogant, over-bearing, and self-centered leftist State.  This is the exact result you get when Leftists run governments; the first thing they do is run roughshod over individuals, in the idea that the collective is always more important that the individual.  If you want to see how that ends up, I invite you to go talk to the old people over in Russia, who get as a practical matter nothing, and live in utter, abject poverty, while Mr. Putin amasses more billions from looting the country with his chums. 

Mr. Thyme, the self-declared Canadian  (and I do not doubt he is indeed Canadian)  considers me an "upper class citizen" filled with "hate"  and obsessed with keeping "my oligarchy".  The problem with this analysis is that I am not even "American,"  I am not a "citizen," I have nothing to say internally, and I live here as a guest of the country.  That leaves me with limited options: I am not allowed to participate in, or interfere with, domestic politics.  I can write letters to the newspaper, of course, but I do not Vote, nor run for any Office, nor even picket in Washington.  All that is reserved for "citizens."  

What I can do is lead by example.  Since I feel that the now-quite-elderly woman who got crashed by that dump truck and is unable to work, even setting aside that at age 83 she should be entitled to a decent retirement  (she was a schoolteacher, remember, hardly someone "uneducated" or "illiterate," As Mr. Justin Thyme would proclaim), and has been badly savaged by a Leftist government that is arrogant and insolent beyond belief, and is now left with no heat, is to personally see to it that she has heat.  

I cannot solve every problem, and I do not have the resources (yet) to provide heat and food for every impoverished person in the State  (but I am working on it), so what  I can do is lead by example, take her under my wing, and embarrass the Leftist government in the process.  It is admittedly a limited result, but any businessman will tell you that you have to start somewhere. 

It is the entrenched Leftists that are causing this misery. NO decent person would leave a crash victim to fend for herself, pay huge medical bills, and deal with a wrecked car, when a State employee driving a heavy dump truck is totally at fault.  That attitude flows exclusively from the hard Left, as has been so amply demonstrated. I denounce that as beyond pathetic. 

It is the Leftists that are insisting on putting a "carbon tax" on heating fuels, their idea being that heat has to come from "somewhere else."  Adding a dollar a gallon to heating fuel is an outrage.  Adding it to gasoline, when the rural poor have to drive longer distances to get to work, and don't even have the money for snow tires, is outrageous and disgusting.  It is revolting to create crushing poverty in the name of "climate change."  It has nothing to do with "climate change," it has everything to do with creating a slush fund for Leftists to entrench themselves on the backs of the poor.  And so I will fight that by distributing coal.  Seems reasonable enough. 

I leave it to the readership here to assess whether or not I am "filled with hate" and seek to perpetuate an "oligarchy" and seek to "keep people impoverished."   OK, folks, you tell me. 

Edited November 18, 2018 by Jan van Eck

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

On 11/14/2018 at 12:43 PM, TONNIO said:

Anyone see making this one making it big, Clean Coal Technologies Inc?. I won a lottery almost nine years ago and just before it I had invested a small amount through a company that I found online, who turned out to be one of those boiler room companies, Pump and Dump. The majority of the win was scammed and the only company that seems to still exist is the one above. It was one of the smaller investment amounts. I check ever so often but they seem to be going anywhere. Any advice is welcome good or bad. I am over the shock of it all.

 

 

The problem with these new-technology companies is that, inevitably,vast amounts of capital are needed to develop the technology, build the prototypes, and get into production.  If these guys are busy chasing aver small investors to fund the above, then inevitably they are going to run out of cash at some point and that is when it goes bust.  As a small investor, I would be leery of getting involved in deals where the technology is unproven and the development stream is uncertain. 

On the other hand, I am developing the technology to convert cow manure into boiler fuel.  And, I am doing it "on the cheap."  I figure $800,000 for the prototype, and a market sales size of $6.5 billion.  Now, for those kinds of numbers, even I get out of bed!😁

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

1 hour ago, Jan van Eck said:

I leave it to the readership here to assess whether or not I am "filled with hate" and seek to perpetuate an "oligarchy" and seek to "keep people impoverished."   OK, folks, you tell me. 

But, do you make just-in-time, or justin-time, happy?  I doubt it very much.  I can only gauge by your responses because after my entire country has been insulted I just blocked him (assuming?).

Edited November 18, 2018 by Dan Warnick

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

6 hours ago, catch22 said:

just as scary as you see those Americans lost in their narcissism... They had no idea why or how they were able to enjoy the lifestyles they had... instead they were full of opinions like "let in all the refugees" and "no limits on immigration"  and "peace on earth" etc etc. Great in theory - but it doesnt work in practice because its complicated... just like every university graduate who thinks they know it all but in practice knows nothing...

I'm disappointed to see and hear more and more about the upcoming generation of college educated young people and their views on the world.  They are the reason Hillary almost got elected, and they are the reality that made the older generations make sure she didn't.  Don't get me wrong, many of today's parents are to blame as well for not teaching responsibility, not insisting on grades based education, and spoiling their kids not matter the long term implications.  Sorry, you and others run into some of the clueless crowd, a crowd that seems to get larger each passing year, but that is what freedom means.  People have the right to make their own mistakes, even if you would like to guide them back to reality.  It will go through its cycle and those young people will grow into adults by the time they are 50 or so and see the damages they are then responsible for.  It won't be pretty.

[DA? + 301]

39 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

I'm disappointed to see and hear more and more about the upcoming generation of college educated young people and their views on the world.  They are the reason Hillary almost got elected, and they are the reality that made the older generations make sure she didn't.  Don't get me wrong, many of today's parents are to blame as well for not teaching responsibility, not insisting on grades based education, and spoiling their kids not matter the long term implications.  Sorry, you and others run into some of the clueless crowd, a crowd that seems to get larger each passing year, but that is what freedom means.  People have the right to make their own mistakes, even if you would like to guide them back to reality.  It will go through its cycle and those young people will grow into adults by the time they are 50 or so and see the damages they are then responsible for.  It won't be pretty.

Yeah great tRump got elected, what a caring intelligent honest person, making the USA great again (not really sure what that refers to). I've lived in the USA some time a go, this older generation that saved the world from Hillary, I saw how a great many of them were clueless, I lived and worked around DC. It's a human condition. As someone that has been around the education system for sometime, seeing it in a number of countries, I can tell you for a large part the education system in the USA has many issues. A purely grades based education is an out dated view because it's wrong. An education like that is one a more dictatorial regime wants to keep it's population with out the capacity to think for it's self. Grades are important but an education needs to bring up people being more rounded.

In the history of the world, especially the western world we have seen a steady move to a more liberal more enlighten population. Occasionally there is a swing back to the extreme right for a short while, but then sense prevails and the trend continues. I can't say I have much more faith in the young generations, they are human as well. But us of the older generations have guilt and blood on our hands, we have stuffed this world up, it hasn't been pretty. The national debt in many countries that we have continued to pile up for the young is one of our many crimes.

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

 

1 hour ago, Dan Warnick said:

But, do you make just-in-time, or justin-time, happy?  I doubt it very much.  I can only gauge by your responses because after my entire country has been insulted I just blocked him (assuming?).

I rather suspect that Mr. Justin will not be satisfied vis-a-vis the Americans until he he sees the entire USA, and specifically the "upper class 1-percenters oligarchs filled with hate" end up as the Nobles in "A Execucao de los Tavoras."  This scene, in 1759, pretty much sums up the attitude and the behaviour of the hard Leftists.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gfdaOfMrlw

Note the head of the mother being carried out for display by the hair, to the enjoyment of the leftists.

This is an 11-minute YouTube video, from the movie set, and I do urge those sitting on the fence about where politics will drive the population as an object lesson on the realities of hard Leftists.  Incidentally, Canadians are quite capable of going that route, the self-image of being a polite and peaceful society notwithstanding.  You really do want to watch out for those people.  I need not mention to Mr. Warnick, but I do mention to non-American readers here, that this (as depicted in the screen shot) is precisely why Americans insist on the continued and untrammelled right to own and bear firearms.  Outbursts of spontaneous mass murder are notorious throughout human history. To understand this, remember that a most civilized and cultured people, the Germans who brought you Bach, and Mozart, and Beethoven, also would end up murdering 2,500,000 Russian prisoners of war, and while rolling through the Ukrainian countryside, nonchalantly stop, drag the pretty girls inside their armored cars, and sequentially rape them.  That was considered good sport, a right of the conquerors.  

The American response to that is perhaps shown in the picture below.  I leave it to you to conclude if that posture is justified:

 

 

Edited November 18, 2018 by Jan van Eck

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

31 minutes ago, DA? said:

Yeah great tRump got elected, what a caring intelligent honest person, making the USA great again (not really sure what that refers to). I've lived in the USA some time a go, this older generation that saved the world from Hillary, I saw how a great many of them were clueless, I lived and worked around DC. It's a human condition. As someone that has been around the education system for sometime, seeing it in a number of countries, I can tell you for a large part the education system in the USA has many issues. A purely grades based education is an out dated view because it's wrong. An education like that is one a more dictatorial regime wants to keep it's population with out the capacity to think for it's self. Grades are important but an education needs to bring up people being more rounded.

In the history of the world, especially the western world we have seen a steady move to a more liberal more enlighten population. Occasionally there is a swing back to the extreme right for a short while, but then sense prevails and the trend continues. I can't say I have much more faith in the young generations, they are human as well. But us of the older generations have guilt and blood on our hands, we have stuffed this world up, it hasn't been pretty. The national debt in many countries that we have continued to pile up for the young is one of our many crimes.

Stunning.  Absolutely stunning.

[DA? + 301]

9 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

Stunning.  Absolutely stunning.

Well thank you. Glad you agree.

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

3 minutes ago, DA? said:

Well thank you. Glad you agree.

There wasn't a compliment or an ounce of agreement in my comment.  Sorry about that.