Is California becoming a National Security Risk to the U.S.?

[Ronald Stein + 23]

The policies and decisions made in California, the 5^th largest economy in the world, may be putting the U.S. at a national security risk. The imported crude oil into California is required to support the states usage of 60 million gallons of fuel every day for its 145 airports, 35 million registered, and 15 ports that handle $50 billion of imported and exported goods every month. Unlike the rest of the USA which is now a net exporter of oil, California’s in-state oil production, and Alaskan oil imports are both in-decline to meet the States’ energy needs, resulting in more than 56% of the States’ crude oil needs being imported from oil rich foreign countries.  http://www.cfact.org/2018/11/13/is-california-becoming-a-national-security-risk/

 

Is California becoming a U.S. National Security Risk.pdf

[DA? + 301]

Don't be silly. One of the largest national risks to the USA is the fossil fuel industry, when peak demand comes it's going to hurt the country bad. California has the sense to move with the times, not try and hide in the 20th century. The USA has stagnated and needs to follow California's leadership, not the other national risk to the USA of tRump 

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

I wouldn't particularly mind if California seceded from the rest of the U.S. 

And no, I'm not joking.  Decades ago, I lived a few years in southern California.  It's like a different universe than the rest of the U.S.

The current direction that California is heading - including its craziness about keeping oil and natural gas in the ground - is not the same direction as the rest of the country.  

[TXPower + 643]

6 hours ago, DA? said:

Don't be silly. One of the largest national risks to the USA is the fossil fuel industry, when peak demand comes it's going to hurt the country bad. California has the sense to move with the times, not try and hide in the 20th century. The USA has stagnated and needs to follow California's leadership, not the other national risk to the USA of tRump 

So I guess companies like Toyota and others LEAVING Cali for places like, Texas, is one such example of the California leadership we should all take note of........  

[DA? + 301]

4 hours ago, TXPower said:

So I guess companies like Toyota and others LEAVING Cali for places like, Texas, is one such example of the California leadership we should all take note of........  

Maybe they left to go to all that cheap renewable energy that's been made in Texas. Although Tesla (have you seen how well they are doing compared to other manufactures) seems to be investing large amounts of money in California and other large companies.

[Guillaume Albasini + 851]

10 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

I wouldn't particularly mind if California seceded from the rest of the U.S. 

And no, I'm not joking.  Decades ago, I lived a few years in southern California.  It's like a different universe than the rest of the U.S.

The current direction that California is heading - including its craziness about keeping oil and natural gas in the ground - is not the same direction as the rest of the country.  

California is just heading the same direction as the rest of the world. The real craziness is the direction the rest of the US is heading.

[John Gammage + 19]

...And another gripe about California (along with Oregon and Washington states) these three western coastal states do not allow the passage of coal from the likes of Wyoming and Montana to their ports to be exported across the Pacific to Asian countries who want to buy that product. How right is it that American business can be held to ransom like this? The alternative route, say through Houston, is going to involve far more energy expenditure to reach its final goal. 

[SERWIN + 749]

...And another gripe about California (along with Oregon and Washington states) these three western coastal states do not allow the passage of coal from the likes of Wyoming and Montana to their ports to be exported across the Pacific to Asian countries who want to buy that product. How right is it that American business can be held to ransom like this? The alternative route, say through Houston, is going to involve far more energy expenditure to reach its final goal. 

 

Unless that is some new regulation that I haven't heard of, I have driven through California many times, and you can see the cloud of dust that those coal trains make when they are moving, you can see it for miles before you get to them. And I mean within the last year or so....I don't know about Washington or Oregon

 

[DA? + 301]

55 minutes ago, John Gammage said:

...And another gripe about California (along with Oregon and Washington states) these three western coastal states do not allow the passage of coal from the likes of Wyoming and Montana to their ports to be exported across the Pacific to Asian countries who want to buy that product. How right is it that American business can be held to ransom like this? The alternative route, say through Houston, is going to involve far more energy expenditure to reach its final goal. 

I'm not surprised if that is true. The dust that comes of those trains is horrendous for human health, coal contains all sorts of stuff you don't want to inhale.

[TXPower + 643]

7 hours ago, Guillaume Albasini said:

California is just heading the same direction as the rest of the world. The real craziness is the direction the rest of the US is heading.

If you mean going off the rails on a crazy train........., then yes, Cali and the rest of the world afe heading in the same direction.  Happy Trails.  I mean rails.

 

Edited November 15, 2018 by TXPower
Wording

[TXPower + 643]

10 hours ago, DA? said:

Maybe they left to go to all that cheap renewable energy that's been made in Texas. Although Tesla (have you seen how well they are doing compared to other manufactures) seems to be investing large amounts of money in California and other large companies.

Or, maybe they left because of all the lunatic regressive liberal state taxation.  

And since you mentioned Tesla, well, I’m glad they’re headed to Cali.  They’ll fit right in.

https://amp.economist.com/business/2018/09/20/teslas-latest-troubles

[DA? + 301]

1 hour ago, TXPower said:

Or, maybe they left because of all the lunatic regressive liberal state taxation.  

And since you mentioned Tesla, well, I’m glad they’re headed to Cali.  They’ll fit right in.

https://amp.economist.com/business/2018/09/20/teslas-latest-troubles

Well that's a bit of old news, things move fast these days. The Economist sad it's not nearly half what it used to be.

[TXPower + 643]

6 minutes ago, DA? said:

Well that's a bit of old news, things move fast these days. The Economist sad it's not nearly half what it used to be.

and yet still so relevant.  facts are stubborn aren't they.

[DA? + 301]

1 hour ago, TXPower said:

and yet still so relevant.  facts are stubborn aren't they.

relevant in what way? Have you seen the facts of it's sale figures in the USA? Seen the financials of the company? Seen the products they make and the demand for them? Those are the stubborn facts about Tesla, it's doing great unlike most other car manufactures (although cars are only part of what Tesla does). Don't mix up FUD and facts.

[TXPower + 643]

I’m sorry, I assumed you had read the article I linked.  Admittedly it’s not the whole picture, however that one article of many available at your fingerprints, which points to problems beyond just overinflated economic figures for Tesla certainly served the point I was making.  Our sense of success and leadership are vastly different.

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

On 11/14/2018 at 4:16 PM, Tom Kirkman said:

I wouldn't particularly mind if California seceded from the rest of the U.S. 

And no, I'm not joking.  Decades ago, I lived a few years in southern California.  It's like a different universe than the rest of the U.S.

The current direction that California is heading - including its craziness about keeping oil and natural gas in the ground - is not the same direction as the rest of the country.  

San Diego is awesome; if I ever left Canada it would be to move there.

Cali brings in tourism bucks and grows a lot of food - it's far more valuable than most flyover states.

[DA? + 301]

9 hours ago, TXPower said:

I’m sorry, I assumed you had read the article I linked.  Admittedly it’s not the whole picture, however that one article of many available at your fingerprints, which points to problems beyond just overinflated economic figures for Tesla certainly served the point I was making.  Our sense of success and leadership are vastly different.

I did read it and it's out of date. They did make that "amazing" profit in Q3. The many articles of complete bull, those so called journalists have got it wrong at every turn. Look at the actual data, profit whilst still investing like crazy, largest revenue of any car in the USA, even BP buying energy storage from them and the list goes on. I get it you are scared of new innovations, the worlds changing quickly and I thought I was the snow flake. 

What's your sense of success and leadership, GE?

[TXPower + 643]

5 hours ago, DA? said:

I did read it and it's out of date. They did make that "amazing" profit in Q3. The many articles of complete bull, those so called journalists have got it wrong at every turn. Look at the actual data, profit whilst still investing like crazy, largest revenue of any car in the USA, even BP buying energy storage from them and the list goes on. I get it you are scared of new innovations, the worlds changing quickly and I thought I was the snow flake. 

What's your sense of success and leadership, GE?

Well, if the snow-shoe fits......

Honesty, integrity, even when it’s painful or perhaps less profitable.  Maturity.  These are true leadership traits.

 

[DA? + 301]

46 minutes ago, TXPower said:

Well, if the snow-shoe fits......

Honesty, integrity, even when it’s painful or perhaps less profitable.  Maturity.  These are true leadership traits.

 

Now who's making who laugh.

[Ronald Stein + 23]

On 11/14/2018 at 11:44 AM, DA? said:

Don't be silly. One of the largest national risks to the USA is the fossil fuel industry, when peak demand comes it's going to hurt the country bad. California has the sense to move with the times, not try and hide in the 20th century. The USA has stagnated and needs to follow California's leadership, not the other national risk to the USA of tRump 

The two prime movers that have done more for the cause of globalization than any other: the diesel engine and the jet turbine, both get their fuels from oil.  “Clean electricity” doesn’t run the military, airports, cruise liners, supertankers, ports, and transportation industries, nor does electricity produce 6,000 products from petroleum that are used by every infrastructure, that are made from the chemicals and by-products that are manufactured from crude oil.

[DA? + 301]

41 minutes ago, Ronald Stein said:

The two prime movers that have done more for the cause of globalization than any other: the diesel engine and the jet turbine, both get their fuels from oil.  “Clean electricity” doesn’t run the military, airports, cruise liners, supertankers, ports, and transportation industries, nor does electricity produce 6,000 products from petroleum that are used by every infrastructure, that are made from the chemicals and by-products that are manufactured from crude oil.

Yes they did, nice history lesson. But that was the past, the present and things are changing, the future and it's sustainable. We are going to see the electrification of the world some bits faster than others. Chemical feed stocks are being rapidly developed from none fossil sources, using electricity to power this or biological, it's only hydrogen and carbon mainly plenty of other sources of that. Really I've read a few bits you have written and you seem to be stuck in the 20th century, time to move on or move over. These old worn out arguments don't work in the modern world.

[DA? + 301]

16 hours ago, Ronald Stein said:

Clean electricity” doesn’t run the military

Oh but it does as it's more secure.

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/11/17/us-military-bases-using-solar-wind-battery-storage-for-energy-security/

[John Gammage + 19]

This recent Forbes article would indicate that California is more of a hazard unto itself: https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasdelbeccaro/2018/04/19/the-top-four-reasons-california-is-unsustainable/#661457173a23 

[David Eidell + 10]

California leadership is liberalism totally out of control. I am a PhD candidate MEE. In 2012 I was shocked to witness endless roadside thickets of live oak (dead or drying) beside distribution powerlines not more than 2-1/2 meters distant. Sonoma County. The thickets were so dense they prevented they blocked passage of human beings. Now these areas consist of ash.

They demand fuel for their sixty thousand dollar 7-series European cars but scream NIMBY at the thought of out-of-sight oil wells off the Pacific coast. They brag about the plethora of solar panels covering roof tops that provide 30% of the energy during sunny days and 0% at night. They moan about breathing wild fire smoke while purposely inhaling expensive destructive distillates of burning vegetation.

Packages of SALT have expiration dates. While they live in expensive enclaves and spend other people's money to force them to live a certain way their enclaves exclude foreign occupancy. The state government collected billions of dollars for road repairs. Please show me the road repairs. Where? Anywhere. California now has the (by far) largest budget surplus in history. Instead of directing it to ease traffic jamming they are using it for purely political liberal causes.

I moved. Forever. And in case you have selected me as a stereotyped ----, My income is rated in the center of the lowest of the three levels of poverty. What a sad situation this is...My retirement nest egg was shattered by AML leukemia 30 years ago.

 

 

[mcambl61 + 20]

On 11/16/2018 at 11:04 PM, DA? said:

Yes they did, nice history lesson. But that was the past, the present and things are changing, the future and it's sustainable. We are going to see the electrification of the world some bits faster than others. Chemical feed stocks are being rapidly developed from none fossil sources, using electricity to power this or biological, it's only hydrogen and carbon mainly plenty of other sources of that. Really I've read a few bits you have written and you seem to be stuck in the 20th century, time to move on or move over. These old worn out arguments don't work in the modern world.

sorry, but the use of fossil fuels is a reality, a necessary reality. no silly comments about the 20th century or arrogant "move on or move over" comments will change the laws of physics regardless of your zealousness.

Perhaps in decades there will be substantial breakthroughs that slowly begin to change this, but demonizing people will certainly not do it.