U.S. Senate Advances Resolution To End Military Support For Saudis In Yemen

[ThunderBlade + 231]

According to Reuters, the U.S. Senate voted on Wednesday to advance a resolution to end U.S. military support for the Saudi-led coalition in Yemen’s civil war, setting the stage for debate and a later vote in the chamber. President Donald Trump’s administration had urged lawmakers to back continued military support for the Saudi-led coalition. But several of his fellow Republicans joined Democrats to give the measure the 60 votes needed to advance. Thirty-nine senators, all Republicans, cast no votes on the procedural matter.

[Petar + 76]

This has much wider consequences than we realize in this moment...and Russia will probably move in...

[damirUSBiH + 327]

looks like an invitation for a stronger Iranian influence in Yemen

[pinto + 293]

20 minutes ago, ThunderBlade said:

.... But several of his fellow Republicans joined Democrats to give the measure the 60 votes needed to advance.... 

You missed news. 11 Republicans joined all Democrats in support

[Pavel + 384]

"In peace sons bury fathers, but war violates the order of nature, and fathers bury sons"-Herodotus
End of all wars!

[50 shades of black + 254]

Just Imagine - bombed and starved 85,000 kids to death in 2018 alone ... Sick, sad and terrible!

[TXPower + 643]

1 hour ago, Petar said:

This has much wider consequences than we realize in this moment...and Russia will probably move in...

^This.

[John Foote + 1,135]

This was just a show. The House vote insured nothing will go forward, and the Senate knew that would happen. About the only person in the US who doesn't openly acknowledge what happen is President Trump. Even Halley speaks openly about it.

Because businesses won't invest outside money in the KSA now, there is real pressure on the Kingdom. This pressure is independent of anything elected officials say, or don't say. 

Yemen isn't a vassal state of Iran. Heck, Yemen hasn't had an effective government since 2012 or so. That the Saudis and Emirates haven't defeated Yemen is pretty astounding when you compare resources. Perhaps the most lopsided war in history in terms of spend of one side compared to the other for what, to achieve a draw on the ground and a fiscal and PR disaster while strengthening your real advisory's position (Iran). The USA was bombing the bejeezus out of eastern Yemen with drones prior to the Houthie/Saudi thing because eastern Yemen is Al Qaida controlled, and AL Qaida has strengthened since this version of the war started. And those folks are funded by Saudis and Emirates to get them to fight Houthies. But if they win, the money dries up. And so it goes. The only losers are the rank and file Yemenis people. You couldn't make this one up if you tried.

[Illurion + 894]

10 hours ago, John Foote said:

This was just a show. The House vote insured nothing will go forward, and the Senate knew that would happen. About the only person in the US who doesn't openly acknowledge what happen is President Trump. Even Halley speaks openly about it.

Because businesses won't invest outside money in the KSA now, there is real pressure on the Kingdom. This pressure is independent of anything elected officials say, or don't say. 

Yemen isn't a vassal state of Iran. Heck, Yemen hasn't had an effective government since 2012 or so. That the Saudis and Emirates haven't defeated Yemen is pretty astounding when you compare resources. Perhaps the most lopsided war in history in terms of spend of one side compared to the other for what, to achieve a draw on the ground and a fiscal and PR disaster while strengthening your real advisory's position (Iran). The USA was bombing the bejeezus out of eastern Yemen with drones prior to the Houthie/Saudi thing because eastern Yemen is Al Qaida controlled, and AL Qaida has strengthened since this version of the war started. And those folks are funded by Saudis and Emirates to get them to fight Houthies. But if they win, the money dries up. And so it goes. The only losers are the rank and file Yemenis people. You couldn't make this one up if you tried.

You are right, it is a mess.

I personally want our boys home from there,  and Afghanistan.

But,  Yemen is so close to the Saudi's that we need to do something to try to stem the tide.

There was a liberal movie from the 1970's called "3 days of the condor".

There is a quote from the film.   A department head asks the Director what he misses,  and his response was "THE CLARITY.'

When it come to the various, different, inter-mingled alliances of the various party's to the Middle east,   there is no "CLARITY" anymore as to who represents what.    No Black and White.  It is all GRAY.

[Rodent + 1,424]

http://www.sabanews.net/en/news518822.htm

according to Yemen news outlet, shelling continues after yesterday's partial truce. 

oh brother. 

[John Foote + 1,135]

1 hour ago, Illurion said:

I personally want our boys home from there,  and Afghanistan.

But,  Yemen is so close to the Saudi's that we need to do something to try to stem the tide.

Yemen is not a threat to Saudi. The country is only fundamentally a threat to itself. Attacking Yemen probably makes KSA less secure when you realize the heritage of so many Saudis, in a region where family and tribe are far more important than the relatively new concept of nation-state. What possessed MbS to go after Yemen, over the objections of the then Crown Prince, is beyond my imagination. At least Qatar has wealth they covet, and an embarrassing press. I believe MbS thought Yemen (and Qatar) would just bend to his will. As the Royal Court does.

And amen to bringing our boys home. 

I really liked "Three Days of the Condor." Had Nixon not been so weakened and distracted by Watergate perhaps something would have happened. The basic premise of plans in place was probably true. We put the Shah in place for far less.

[Illurion + 894]

23 minutes ago, mthebold said:

Suppose Russia moves in.  What then? 

 

To me, that sounds like an argument in favor of developing oil outside the Middle East as rapidly as possible and then abandoning the area.  I'm not an expert though; how would you play this?

I doubt that Russia wants anything to do with Yemen.  They learned their lesson in Afghanistan.

We learned our lesson in Vietnam. 

But 9/11 placed us in a situation where we HAD to respond to someone,  and since Bin Laden did the planning in Afghanistan,  we started there.    We continued with unfinished business in Iraq.    This current Syria thing that Obama started is a big mistake.

We are in Yemen to keep it "fluid",  since it really no longer exists as a country.  We and the Saudi's are there because Iran, and Al Qaida are there.

As for developing our own oil,  and getting out of the Middle East,   Isn't that what we are doing ?

But then what do i know.

[Rashed ALSAYED + 11]

20 hours ago, ThunderBlade said:

According to Reuters, the U.S. Senate voted on Wednesday to advance a resolution to end U.S. military support for the Saudi-led coalition in Yemen’s civil war, setting the stage for debate and a later vote in the chamber. President Donald Trump’s administration had urged lawmakers to back continued military support for the Saudi-led coalition. But several of his fellow Republicans joined Democrats to give the measure the 60 votes needed to advance. Thirty-nine senators, all Republicans, cast no votes on the procedural matter.

Trump still protecting Ksa Leaders

[Illurion + 894]

19 minutes ago, rafattt said:

Trump still protecting Ksa Leaders

Long ago,  the United States had two "proxies" in the Middle East who represented our interests:  Israel & Iran.

Iran fell.

These days,  the United States still has two "proxies" in the Middle East who represent our interests:   Israel & Saudi Arabia.

The purpose of two proxies is to cover both sides of the religious void.   

Both proxies will do our bidding when the issue is important enough.

That is why the votes failed.  and will continue to do so.

Iran may fall again,  and in the future,  may become one of our "proxies" again.

You never know.

[Illurion + 894]

On 12/13/2018 at 9:19 PM, mthebold said:

What was the reasoning behind Syria, and why do you think it was a mistake?

I could go on and on about why it was a mistake for Obama to announce that the USA had no problem with regime change in Syria,  but i will just attach a picture that says it all.

This little boy would still be alive.

His name was Alan Kurdi, and he was 3.   He died as his family tried to leave Syria,  and failed.

this is a link to what happened: 

https://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/604590/Migrant-crisis-the-truth-about-the-boy-the-beach-Aylan-Kurdi

 

I have removed Alan's picture.  But please do not forget him.   It is easy for people to talk and make decisions in the safety and comfort of their "dispassionate" homes.   But there is no such thing as a "free lunch".   SOMEONE HAS TO PAY.   In regard to Syria,   "dispassionate" people made the decision to destabilize a country.   Alan was one of the people who actually paid the bill.   Good Night.

 

Edited December 15, 2018 by Illurion

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

I strongly object to the posting of that picture.  Please remove it.

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

@CMOP @Rodent Your call, of course, but I will repeat that I strongly object to the posting of the picture above and ask that it be removed.  I do not object to the reference to his story or posting a link that leads to the photo.  It is IMO inappropriate to post pics of such on a site such as this one.

Edited December 14, 2018 by Dan Warnick

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

12 minutes ago, mthebold said:

I found it unhelpful, but I wouldn't say I "strongly object" to it.  May I ask why you find it inappropriate? 

Because I do not come here to look at pictures of dead children.  As I said, a link would leave the choice of whether I want to look at dead children or not to me, or any other reader.  Posting it directly to a discussion page leaves no choice.

[Illurion + 894]

5 hours ago, Dan Warnick said:

I strongly object to the posting of that picture.  Please remove it.

Sorry for the delay dan and mthebold.   I have been at the hospital with my Wife.  She had a bad fall.  Just got home.

I have no problem removing the picture.

I was asked in an earlier post to provide my reasoning on why i thought the war in Syria was a mistake.

A big task.   I wrote what i thought,  and in the end,  it was over a 1000 words, and a page long.

I don't like posting long messages,  though i do sometimes.

In the end,   i deleted my 1000 word reasoning,   

I remembered the old saying that "A PICTURE IS WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS."

So i posted the picture of this poor little boy,  and 3 sentences leading to a link to his story.

 

Now you know why i posted the picture.

 

Now you know exactly what i feel about the Syrian war.

 

Your responses that it is "inappropriate"  and that you "strongly object" to the picture is exactly the way i feel about the United States being part of the Syrian conflict.

 

It never should have happened.   But it did.

 

This little boy "Alan" is the face of that war,   and whenever i think of the war,  i think of him.

 

He should not be forgotten.

 

I am sorry that you are offended,   but you asked,  so i answered.

 

I am removing the picture now.

[Illurion + 894]

5 hours ago, mthebold said:

Not to be callous, but any statement that includes a photo of a child's tragic death doesn't pass for reasonable geopolitical analysis. 

One of the interesting aspects of military service during wartime is that there inevitably comes a day when you face an impossible scenario.  There is no right answer.  There is no policy or action that will save the day.  Someone will die, and there isn't a thing you can do about it.  When that day comes, the fog of Western idealistic idiocy lifts.  It's an unpleasant experience for sure, but also a necessary milestone on the path to adulthood.  One realizes that it's insufficient to feel empathy, hope for a better future, and "do something".  The dying will continue until unpleasant truths are faced and difficult decisions are made.  One must understand the problem and lead. 

Graphic photos and heartfelt statements are for virtue signaling; dispassionate analysis is for leaders. 

I removed mine.   Please remove yours.  Thank you.

[Rodent + 1,424]

thanks everyone. 

Saudi 

On 12/12/2018 at 11:33 PM, John Foote said:

The USA was bombing the bejeezus out of eastern Yemen with drones prior to the Houthie/Saudi thing because eastern Yemen is Al Qaida controlled, and AL Qaida has strengthened since this version of the war started. And those folks are funded by Saudis and Emirates to get them to fight Houthies

yup. Saudi led forces allied with al quaeda in Yemen. Can't decide if that's a move of desperation or if they're just using Al queada to oust the Houthi rebels.

@damirUSBiH @Joanna

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

14 hours ago, Illurion said:

I have removed Alan's picture.  But please do not forget him.   It is easy for people to talk and make decisions in the safety and comfort of their "dispassionate" homes.   But there is no such thing as a "free lunch".   SOMEONE HAS TO PAY.   In regard to Syria,   "dispassionate" people made the decision to destabilize a country.   Alan was one of the people who actually paid the bill.   Good Night.

First time we agree. This is one of main reasons why we cannot just let people die when they are attempting to come to Europe. I agree the world should be doing more end terrible situations like this. But untill we do, we must accept the consequense that is migration.

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

4 hours ago, Illurion said:

Sorry for the delay dan and mthebold.   I have been at the hospital with my Wife.  She had a bad fall.  Just got home.

I have no problem removing the picture.

I was asked in an earlier post to provide my reasoning on why i thought the war in Syria was a mistake.

A big task.   I wrote what i thought,  and in the end,  it was over a 1000 words, and a page long.

I don't like posting long messages,  though i do sometimes.

In the end,   i deleted my 1000 word reasoning,   

I remembered the old saying that "A PICTURE IS WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS."

So i posted the picture of this poor little boy,  and 3 sentences leading to a link to his story.

 

Now you know why i posted the picture.

 

Now you know exactly what i feel about the Syrian war.

 

Your responses that it is "inappropriate"  and that you "strongly object" to the picture is exactly the way i feel about the United States being part of the Syrian conflict.

 

It never should have happened.   But it did.

 

This little boy "Alan" is the face of that war,   and whenever i think of the war,  i think of him.

 

He should not be forgotten.

 

I am sorry that you are offended,   but you asked,  so i answered.

 

I am removing the picture now.

Sorry to hear about your wife having a fall.  I hope she recovers well and the road to recovery does not include too much pain.  How are you doing, by the way?  As I recall you were just in the hospital recovering from heart problems?

As to your reasoning about posting the picture, please kindly understand that my feeling is that if we freely allow pictures of dead children (or babies, or people, or aborted fetuses, etc.) to fight our battles, then the newspapers and the televised news and all other forms of MSM will be filled with them.  In my opinion it was inexcusable when the MSM could not hold back their competitiveness and ran the photo to get viewer's attention in the first place, and there was a lot of discussion on just that at that time.  But I see it as nothing more than the pointing of fingers at people who by and large have nothing whatsoever to do with the child in the photo.  It lays blame without reasoning as to why the "intended audience" is to blame.  I know the case of "Alan" was proved to be true, in that his family was fleeing war, but you and I both know there were myriad other reasons leading up to his ultimate death on that beach.  I imagine, although I'll freely admit I could be wrong, that that is why you had prepared such a long post before deciding to delete it and go with the photo.  Also, there have been enough cases where the causes have proved to be nothing near what the posters claimed them to be.  I also remember Piers Morgan repeatedly standing on the dead children of Sandy Hook to forcefully shame any and all into accepting his view that the 2nd amendment of the U.S. Constitution be changed or better yet, in his view, annulled.  It is my view that a good post with a link to sources and/or illustrations works just as well or better.

 

[Illurion + 894]

8 hours ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

First time we agree. This is one of main reasons why we cannot just let people die when they are attempting to come to Europe. I agree the world should be doing more end terrible situations like this. But untill we do, we must accept the consequense that is migration.

I wish we could agree on everything.   But that will never happen.

I adjust what you said above to say:   "I AGREE THE WORLD SHOULD BE DOING MORE TO PREVENT TERRIBLE SITUATIONS LIKE THIS."

PREVENTION SAVES LIVES.

Often,  there is no real way to "END THESE TERRIBLE SITUATIONS" without the death of someone...

............  here is why..........

A week or so ago,  you , Jan , and i were arguing about the seeds of this.

I was talking against Globalism.

My point was THAT THE NATION STATE MODEL OF GOVERNMENT HAD OVER TIME SHOWN ITSELF TO BE THE MOST STABLE FORM OF GOVERNMENT.

I said that i oppose the creation of the EU,  which i believe,  over time,  has done more damage, than progress,  to CULTURE and PEACE in Europe.

The reason the Nation State model is better is because THE PEOPLE INSIDE EACH INDIVIDUAL NATION STATE TEND TO REPRESENT ONE RELIGIOUS CULTURE.

When you mix too many religions / cultures together,  you ask for problems, and war.

............

Look at US.  Here on this board.   We can't even agree with each other often,  and are at each others throats every once in a while.

..............

IT IS HUMAN NATURE THAT PEOPLE TEND TO COALESCE INTO GROUPS (NATIONS) BASED ON THEIR CORE BELIEFS.

As long as we leave those Nation States to their CORE BELIEFS,  peace lasts.

BUT,  individual Nation States have needs.  Materials and products that they have to get from other Nation States.

TRADE.

As long as our individual Nation States have COMPETENT, THOUGHTFUL, GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS, that are able to smoothly negotiate, and coordinate with their Counterparts in the other Nation States,  peace lasts.

GLOBALISM DOESN'T WORK BECAUSE IT IGNORES THE DIFFERENCES IN THE CORE BELIEFS OF THE DIFFERENT NATION STATES,  AND TRIES TO TREAT ALL OF THE NATION STATES THE SAME...  UNDER ONE SET OF RULES....

AND THOSE RULES ALMOST ALWAYS PREFER ONE PARTICULAR RELIGION.

THAT CANNOT HELP BUT CAUSE WAR.

THE EU GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS HAVE SHOWN WITHOUT ANY SHADOW OF DOUBT,  THAT THE RELIGION THEY PREFER IS ISLAM...

THE EU IS NOW THE OFFICIAL ARM OF THE ISLAM RELIGION.   USING LAW,  TO CONVERT CHRISTIAN EUROPE TO THE MUSLIM RELIGION.

Look at what the EU has done to Europe.    It is 1984,  and the thought police are worse every day.

If you even ARGUE BACK ABOUT IT,  YOU ARE ARRESTED, TRIED, AND IMPRISONED.

...............

Barack Obama and his globalist, socialist, technology henchmen at TWITTER, FACEBOOK, etc,  ARE TO BLAME FOR THE "ARAB SPRING" that started all of this.

I believe Obama, Welch, Zuckerberg,  et al,  should be tried and imprisoned for  "crimes against humanity" charges,  as they are to blame for what has happened to Syria,  and the EU.

..............

Obama and his cronies let loose the "Arab Spring" forces,  and Syria was destabilized,  which caused the people to flee to surrounding states until those states could hold no more,  then the rest FLED TO THE EU.

Obama's same type of Socialist people,   ran the EU,  AND THEY WELCOMED WITHOUT PARAMETERS,  ALL OF THOSE FROM SYRIA TOO.

AND AFTER THE SYRIANS WERE LET IN,  THEY STARTED LETTING IN EVERYONE FROM AFRICA TOO...

SO THE STAGE WAS SET FOR TRAGEDY...

.................

On an individual basis,  I LOVE EVERYONE.   I GIVE EVERYONE THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT.

.................

BUT THE REALITIES OF THIS WORLD    "WILL NOT LET ME LOVE EVERYONE."

................

The reality is this:    IN AMERICA,  THE ILLEGAL ALIENS MUST GO BACK HOME.   OUR SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT BREAKS DOWN BY THE WAY THEY GOT HERE.

The reality is this:    IN CHRISTIAN FRANCE (and the rest of the EU nations now),   BECAUSE OF THE DESTABILIZING AFFECT OF FAR TOO MANY MUSLIMS IN A CHRISTIAN COUNTRY,  SOMEONE MUST CHANGE, MOVE, OR DIE.

The rules of islam will not let them change......

THAT MEANS SOMONE MUST MOVE OR DIE....

.................

I wish things were different...  but they aren't......

...............

In the coming years,  many, perhaps millions,  are going to die because of what the Globalists / Socialist have set into play.

They have destabilized ENTIRE CONTINENTS CONTAINING MANY TENS OF NATION STATES...

It is my belief that Future Historians,  when looking back at this time,  will PLACE MORE BLAME ON THE OBAMA / MERKEL, MACRON, ZUCKERBERG, WELCH people that CAUSED THIS PROBLEM,    than the TRUMP like people,  that had to do what they had to do,  to RESOLVE THE PROBLEM AND RESTORE ORDER.

 

As anyone in construction can tell you,  it is far easier to destroy,  than to build.

 

The Globalists have destroyed the nation state models,  and it is going to take a lot of hard work to clear out the rubble,  and rebuild them.

 

I am sorry for writing such a long message.   This was my original response to the SYRIA question..

When i was finished,   i decided to delete it,  and put the picture of the little boy on the beach, Alan's,  picture in its place.

There will be many more bodies in the future.

sad

Edited December 15, 2018 by Illurion

[Illurion + 894]

8 hours ago, Dan Warnick said:

Sorry to hear about your wife having a fall.  I hope she recovers well and the road to recovery does not include too much pain.  How are you doing, by the way?  As I recall you were just in the hospital recovering from heart problems?

 

I am sorry that i upset you with the picture of Alan.  But,  in the end,  doing so was the only way i could think of,  as even with 1000 words,  i still couldn't express my feelings of hopelessness when it comes to what i see coming.

As for my wife and i,   She has epilepsy,  and has seizures every day.  She falls and gets hurt.  Has a steel bar in her arm, and a steel bar in her wrist to reunite the bones.

I have a bad heart.   I die every couple of months,  and the machine brings me back,  etc.   Eventually,  we will be gone.  No big deal.  We have had a good life.  Not too many regrets.

Edited December 15, 2018 by Illurion