Brits to vote again? Brexit delay creates headache for Europe

Brexit paralysis has prompted talk of a British election or a second referendum but one odd side-effect could be Britons having to cast their votes for an EU parliament they had decided to leave. Britain is scheduled to quit the European Union on March 29, two months before citizens of the other 27 EU states elect a new European Parliament.

Key complications are:

- how long an extension Britain may seek to its two-year exit deadline under Article 50 of the EU treaty — notably whether it leaves before or after the current EU legislature lapses on July 1
- whether an extension might end up cancelling Brexit altogether
- whether a need for Britons to vote for new EU representatives could be delayed beyond May
- whether the new EU chamber will need to ratify the Brexit terms.
 

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So, many of them now think: Can I take my vote back? T. May the worst PM ever!

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This will cause literal "carnage"....

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Just because T. May and her remainer Cabinet made a mess of Brexit by ignoring the nation-wide referendum mandate to leave the EU and try to have one foot in and one foot out. Now, consequences are coming...

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I don't think Brexit will happen at all'.. Boo hoo, Theresa May...

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May was responsible... Cabinet are divided over Brexit. EU are united. They can't blame EU for the mess. It's all the government's fault. Irrefutable facts.

Oh, btw. TM is great dancer...

 

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Not everyone who voted (Brexit) out voted for the same thing, no deal was not even on the table during the campaign ... If you see that things are not going as you expect, then there is also nothing wrong with asking the same people again, 2.5 years after - do you still want to leave after everything you know now ??

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3 minutes ago, rainman said:

Not everyone who voted (Brexit) out voted for the same thing, no deal was not even on the table during the campaign ... If you see that things are not going as you expect, then there is also nothing wrong with asking the same people again, 2.5 years after - do you still want to leave after everything you know now ??

Meanwhile in Brussels....

"Brexit withdrawal agreement likely to be sent to European parliament on Monday to start ratification, after internal EU council process concluded today...."

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1 hour ago, rainman said:

Not everyone who voted (Brexit) out voted for the same thing, no deal was not even on the table during the campaign ... If you see that things are not going as you expect, then there is also nothing wrong with asking the same people again, 2.5 years after - do you still want to leave after everything you know now ??

No the referendum to leave was had if we need to vote again then we now vote on the deal on the table or no deal that is democracy not asking the same question again which is dictatorship whereby you keep voting until you re-elect the dictator. This has been the plan of those elected ‘representatives’ all along to screw the process so we have to vote again. It is anti democratic and will lead to loss of faith in the UK parliament, for those that may have actually had some to start with, and violent street protests from those who expected such an outcome.

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54 minutes ago, jaycee said:

No the referendum to leave was had if we need to vote again then we now vote on the deal on the table or no deal that is democracy not asking the same question again which is dictatorship whereby you keep voting until you re-elect the dictator. This has been the plan of those elected ‘representatives’ all along to screw the process so we have to vote again. It is anti democratic and will lead to loss of faith in the UK parliament, for those that may have actually had some to start with, and violent street protests from those who expected such an outcome.

Jaycee, would you mind sharing with me and any others on this side of the pond looking for a better understanding, what your sense is as to what specifically about EU membership the UK voters voted to leave?  And as a follow up, what kind of deal is envisioned as a successful departure?

 

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59 minutes ago, TXPower said:

Jaycee, would you mind sharing with me and any others on this side of the pond looking for a better understanding, what your sense is as to what specifically about EU membership the UK voters voted to leave?  And as a follow up, what kind of deal is envisioned as a successful departure?

 

lol I will now speak for the UK  😅

So from where I stand I see the majority voted for Brexit as a way of stopping migration due to the feeling that 'foreigners are stealing our jobs.' This plays well with the blue collar workers especially in Labour areas They have no real idea of the consequences of Brexit, not that anyone really does, or of the bigger issues all they see is a problem on their doorstep. Sadly they are being undermined already as our lords and masters need cheap labour for all jobs, blue and white collar, and laws proposed recently have stated we will be having more migration from countries outside the EU going forward mainly India for white collar as the UK are going to sign a trade deal with them to take their very poorly educated graduates in return for a good trade deal. We will get the blue collar workers from some poor country, nurses probably from the Far East, Philippines etc laborers could be anywhere.

The white collar workers that voted for it, ie me and people like me, see the EU for what it is, a way to make a new large country with even more distant government mainly run by the Franco German axis with the UK paying into something they will have little control off and have what successful industries we have stripped from us, the City of London has been a target for years by the EU as they seek to take parts off it to the continent. Many also were getting sick of the lack of control we have over our own laws so was in effect a power grab to get back some power through politicians we can elect, mind you the lot we have now are probably the worst collection we have had in a long time but they are at least our thieving, self serving idiots and not German or French ones. There are many other reasons but I see these as the main ones.

By the way I do not dislike other nationalities but I do dislike their governments.

Regards what would be a successful deal, nobody knows. To continue trading on a fair basis with the EU would be really what most would want, ie what was signed up for way back when the UK signed up to join a European trading organisation not a new state, but the EU will not give that without heavy penalties like free migration of labour or control over our laws so its not going to happen. I suggest a hard Brexit and start from the beginning, painful, but it at least puts us on an equal footing with the EU as it has a lot to lose from that scenario and will want a deal just as much as us, continuing with the deal on offer will just play into the EU hands as they will slowly grind us into a even worse deal using fishing rights and Gibraltar as negotiating tools to batter us plus of course all the while being able to hold us by saying the border controls in Ireland are not to their satisfaction. The key for the UK though is Ireland as that is actually the EU's weak point and why they want to make sure they nullify it as a negotiating pawn with the current deal they have offered. The reason is Ireland it will collapse if the UK does not trade with it as it is Ireland's second biggest export market and even lorries going to Ireland from the EU come across from France then cut across the UK and take a ferry over the Irish sea.

I will now repost a section of a post by a poster called tournesol on ADVFN, a financial website I frequent, and his very well put views on Brexit, full text here https://uk.advfn.com/cmn/fbb/thread.php3?id=31347119&from=38219

'The younger generation has been hoodwinked into seeing Remain as the liberal, open, progressive decent option and has decided to ignore the EU's fundamental flaws - its inherent racism, its introversion, its economic weakness, its failure on employment - especially for the young, its complete lack of democracy, its corruption, its complex and non-performant system of government, its self aggrandisement, its ambition to absorb its members into a non-democratic superstate.'

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Hello Jaycee,

Thank-you for sharing your thoughts. They are a lot for me to digest. My only child married an Englishman and they live in London with my two grandchildren. The uncertainty surrounding Brexit is very disturbing. There is talk of lack of food and medicine if there is a "hard" Brexit. 

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(edited)

15 hours ago, Janet Alderton said:

Hello Jaycee,

Thank-you for sharing your thoughts. They are a lot for me to digest. My only child married an Englishman and they live in London with my two grandchildren. The uncertainty surrounding Brexit is very disturbing. There is talk of lack of food and medicine if there is a "hard" Brexit. 

It’s called ‘Project Fear’and is part of the tactics of the Remain side to try and make people so afraid of Brexit they will do anything to stop it. So far we have been told that planes won’t be able to fly due to airspace restrictions over the EU, now proven wrong as the EU not surprisingly have made an agreement with U.K. civil aviation authority. We have been told lorries will not get through Calais, a major French port, due to the bureaucracy , the Mayor of Calais has said he will do everything to stop this happening and will get the lorries through. Basically everything Remainers can think of is being raised as a major problem only for there there to be a simple answer. Before the vote the Bank of England predicted immediate economic disaster if we voted leave and dropped interest rates straight after the vote to prevent ‘economic Armageddon, the economy did not tank and the guvnor had to re raise interest rates. The same tactic was used successfully for the Scottish independence vote a few years ago, milk would rocket in price, pensions would not be paid no access to BBC channels really stupid things but they found marks among the gullible. Problems will mainly be solved as it’s in the best interests of both parties.

Edited by jaycee
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(edited)

11 hours ago, Janet Alderton said:

Hello Jaycee,

Thank-you for sharing your thoughts. They are a lot for me to digest. My only child married an Englishman and they live in London with my two grandchildren. The uncertainty surrounding Brexit is very disturbing. There is talk of lack of food and medicine if there is a "hard" Brexit. 

Janet, I would not get too rattled over Brexit, all that seems to be overblown.  Keep in mind that the traditional source of beef and grains for Britain is Argentina, with contributions from Brasil and Canada.  Yes, vegetables including greens come from the Continent, but so what?  It is not as if bureaucrats in Brussels are going to shut off the producers from their customers out of malice and spite; there are no "export taxes."  Assuming Britain simply continues to import foodstuffs duty free, which it has done for hundreds of years, that practice will continue.  OK, you may get some foods stuck in the truck queue at the ports, which will get jammed up with manufactured goods, yet my guess is that foodstuffs will get prioritized. 

I cannot speak to meds.  It is certainly true that lots and lots of meds are produced by pharma companies on the Continent.  It is also true that lots of "generic" or copy meds, of dubious quality, flow out of India, a Commonwealth country.  And out of China, again with lower quality controls.   I would anticipate supply issues there, until the ports get sorted out.  But the Brexit Preparations are well under way, and outlier ports are being organized to accept roll-on, roll-off truck traffic.    The Brits will muddle through.  (The real sticking point will be the Irish Border.  I don't see how they are going to be able to sort that one out. Perhaps Northern Ireland will separate from the UK - finally.)

Edited by Jan van Eck
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23 hours ago, rainman said:

Not everyone who voted (Brexit) out voted for the same thing, no deal was not even on the table during the campaign ... If you see that things are not going as you expect, then there is also nothing wrong with asking the same people again, 2.5 years after - do you still want to leave after everything you know now ??

That is a betrayal of the democratic process. You should not offer a vote and then manipulate the process to offer an unacceptable solution. May and her cronies have been extremely deceptive by presenting an unacceptable Brexit as the only possible solution and then seeking another vote. The people should rise up and demand a clean Brexit. 

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(edited)

44 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

. The people should rise up and demand a clean Brexit. 

Ron, the people can demand whatever they want to demand. 

As far as that goes, they can demand the dissolution of the "United" Kingdom.  I think there will be some inclination for the people in Guernsey and Jersey and those sitting on the Isle of Man to become ancient principalities, hey why not?  Monaco seems to be working out as a Principality, not that the French seem to mind all that much.  Even Andorra seems to work.  There is some island I recall visiting in Scotland  run by Lord Bolt, I recall it was somewhere to the North of Glascow; he had all his Lordship's pick-up trucks and cars painted Purple, so they would not be stolen and driven onto the ferry off the island. Seems to have worked out.  

I have always wanted to set up the Independent Principality of Eck.  Has a nice ring to it. 

Edited by Jan van Eck
scrivener error
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35 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

That is a betrayal of the democratic process. You should not offer a vote and then manipulate the process to offer an unacceptable solution. May and her cronies have been extremely deceptive by presenting an unacceptable Brexit as the only possible solution and then seeking another vote. The people should rise up and demand a clean Brexit. 

Oddly May so far appears to have been on the side of Brexit and maintains the integrity of the vote, she realises the consequences of  betraying the Brexit vote for her party and the country. The fact she got such a bad deal from the EU is her fault though but that was incompetence rather than design. She is now trying to get everyone to agree to it. The opposition extreme left wing Labour Party plus all other opposition parties apart from the Ulster DUP, are against her as are most off her MPs. Some of her MPs are trying to force a new referendum with the opposition whilst others are voting against it because it’s such a bad deal. It really is a mess. At the moment we are heading for non deal Brexit but anything is possible as we are in very uncharted waters.

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(edited)

30 minutes ago, jaycee said:

Oddly May so far appears to have been on the side of Brexit and maintains the integrity of the vote, she realises the consequences of  betraying the Brexit vote for her party and the country. The fact she got such a bad deal from the EU is her fault though but that was incompetence rather than design. She is now trying to get everyone to agree to it. The opposition extreme left wing Labour Party plus all other opposition parties apart from the Ulster DUP, are against her as are most off her MPs. Some of her MPs are trying to force a new referendum with the opposition whilst others are voting against it because it’s such a bad deal. It really is a mess. At the moment we are heading for non deal Brexit but anything is possible as we are in very uncharted waters.

It is difficult for an American to sort out British politics. Why is May so insistent on the terrible deal then? 

Edited by ronwagn

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2 hours ago, ronwagn said:

It is difficult for an American to sort out British politics. Why is May so insistent on the terrible deal then? 

Short answer:  the clock has run out and there is nothing else on the table. 

But not to worry, the Brits have long been in "uncharted waters."  Good examples:  WWI and trench warfare;  fighting the Zulus and the Boers,  Taking on Zeppelin bombings of London;  the Blitz; the Battle of Britain over the cliffs of Dover;  massive strikes at Longbridge Auto Plant in Manchester, it goes on.  The Brits are famous for muddling through.  "Something will come up."

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3 hours ago, ronwagn said:

It is difficult for an American to sort out British politics. Why is May so insistent on the terrible deal then? 

The economic system in Europe is so intervowen that nobody can really predict the consequences of a no deal brexit. At least the deal on the table provides some certainty. 

That said - I am with JC on this one. A no deal brexit is probably better than the deal on the table. The sad thing is that both the EU and Uk will loose with a no deal, As JC have noted I find it unlikely the Eastern european workers leaving will result in a lot brits being employed.

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The main problem is , that people getting older , and after few years , are in lesser training .

And each year , more people die or become pensionists .

The thing seems to be , to delay everthing for many years , and then the problem with any native unemployed will sort itself out , simply because people will fell into different slots , then .

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5 hours ago, ronwagn said:

It is difficult for an American to sort out British politics. Why is May so insistent on the terrible deal then? 

She believes that any deal is better than no deal. The consequences of the chaos off no deal scares her plus this deal keeps the U.K. close to the EU but ticks most of the boxes on promises of the Brexit campaign. Unfortunately it gives the EU too much power going into the next set of negotiations on the trade deal for any Brexiteers to back it.

Edited by jaycee
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@Jaycee, what does the no-deal scenario actually entail? That every single thing like trade and free/non-free movement will have to be negotiated separately or what? 

P.S. And English friend of mine just got back from a short visit home and said everyone is talking about Brexit all the time, it's  like an infection. 

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2 hours ago, Marina Schwarz said:

@Jaycee, what does the no-deal scenario actually entail? That every single thing like trade and free/non-free movement will have to be negotiated separately or what? 

P.S. And English friend of mine just got back from a short visit home and said everyone is talking about Brexit all the time, it's  like an infection. 

It’s very intense right now over here we are getting street demonstrations from both sides and the news is constantly about Brexit mind you most people just want it over one way or another and to deal with the consequences later as they are getting tired of the stupid politicians arguing.

the no deal scenario is simply cutting all trading links with the EU and going to world trade organisation rules and tariffs. This means more checks on goods, thus delays where fresh goods rot etc, and problems for companies like car makers, who move parts to the U.K. to feed production lines. In itself it’s not that disastrous but the problem is the sudden change will cause. The bonus is the U.K. will not have to pay the £50 billion or so ‘fee’ to leave the EU or at least in theory as I can’t see the EU being happy having their budget ruined. There will then be a hard Irish border which is the thing that the EU is trying so desperately to avoid in the negotiated deal and that is causing the biggest problem getting it through the U.K. parliament. So you can see how a no deal means both sides will need to get an actual deal done very quickly.

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