Janet Alderton + 124 JA February 20, 2019 21 hours ago, ronwagn said: They just about run you off the road in Olympic National Park. You have to pull over. A wise decision, Ron. Force = mass x acceleration. I don't argue with the laws of physics, either. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Janet Alderton + 124 JA February 20, 2019 23 hours ago, Red said: False - you consistently make claims which are not true. False - read what I said as it is very different. At what point will you get something right? Hi Red, I am with you. But these guys, and maybe a few gals, will never be persuaded. Signed, A Ferocious Grandmother Who Will Never Give Up Trying To Save Our Planet 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ronwagn + 6,290 February 21, 2019 (edited) On 2/19/2019 at 5:05 PM, Old-Ruffneck said: Natural Gas doesn't have the same power as diesel and not nearly as efficient. Not even close to same BTU's, or we'd have switched like California bus' did in the 90's. Diesel will be around for along time unless governments mandate a switch. Been trying to phase them out for some time and just getting more popular. Ford is all but shutting down car line. 2 models left. Vehicles today have way more power than they need. The loss with natural gas is minimal except with extremely heavy loads. The cost of the CNG fuel is far lower. The bean counters will eventually rule. The public would appreciate companies that can put signs on their trucks that say (This Truck Uses Natural Gas to Make Your Breathing Easier}. Diesel is also a known carcinogen. Don't worry Ruffneck, it will be around a long time. The average retail price of CNG is $2.22 but it can also be pumped directly from your natural gas pipe with your own compression equipment. That would probably cut the price in half after the compressor fueling system was paid for. https://www.socalgas.com/save-money-and-energy/natural-gas-vehicles/refueling-at-home Edited February 21, 2019 by ronwagn added reference 1 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Janet Alderton + 124 JA February 21, 2019 28 minutes ago, ronwagn said: Vehicles today have way more power than they need. The loss with natural gas is minimal except with extremely heavy loads. The cost of the CNG fuel is far lower. The bean counters will eventually rule. The public would appreciate companies that can put signs on their trucks that say (This Truck Uses Natural Gas to Make Your Breathing Easier}. Diesel is also a known carcinogen. Don't worry Ruffneck, it will be around a long time. Though VW is paying penance for its diesel emissions cheating by going big on electric vehicles. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ronwagn + 6,290 February 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Janet Alderton said: Though VW is paying penance for its diesel emissions cheating by going big on electric vehicles. Do you drive an electric car yet Janet? I would wait for the VW and other models to come out. More price competition. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Janet Alderton + 124 JA February 21, 2019 1 minute ago, ronwagn said: Do you drive an electric car yet Janet? I would wait for the VW and other models to come out. More price competition. Yes! I have been driving a Nissan Leaf for four years. I love my Leaf. But I have a 2006 Honda Odyssey for long trips. I drive the van on my trips to Olympia for my Citizens' Committee on Pipeline Safety. Washington State is tops in the U.S. for keeping our hazardous materials pipelines in working order. Call 811 before you dig! (I don't get rid of things that still have a useful life). Janet 1 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ronwagn + 6,290 February 21, 2019 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Janet Alderton said: Yes! I have been driving a Nissan Leaf for four years. I love my Leaf. But I have a 2006 Honda Odyssey for long trips. I drive the van on my trips to Olympia for my Citizens' Committee on Pipeline Safety. Washington State is tops in the U.S. for keeping our hazardous materials pipelines in working order. Call 811 before you dig! (I don't get rid of things that still have a useful life). Janet We love minivans, but also have a large Nissan van for towing. We probably should switch to Odysseys from Chryslers but love the stow and go seating. We recently bought our daughter a three cylinder Mitsubishi Mirage that gets around 39 MPG and costs $13,400. The Leaf was my choice for an electric car but we take too many long trips. Edited February 21, 2019 by ronwagn 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Janet Alderton + 124 JA February 21, 2019 1 minute ago, ronwagn said: We love minivans, but also have a large Nissan van. We probably should switch to Odysseys from Chryslers but love the stow and go seating. We recently bought our daughter a three cylinder Mitsubishi Mirage that gets around 39 MPG and costs $13,400. The Leaf was my choice for an electric car but we take too many long trips. If you like what you have, keep it until it makes sense to make the leap to a new (or used) vehicle. My Odyssey has fold-down rear seats that make a large cargo area. The Mitsubishi Mirage sounds great! A friend of mine recently bought a Chevy Bolt that has quite a long range (238miles). I am working with my community to decide where and how many electric vehicle charging stations to install. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Illurion + 894 IG February 21, 2019 (edited) 15 hours ago, NickW said: Meanwhile the reality Asteroid comes crashing through the roof with this😄 https://www.nass.usda.gov/Statistics_by_State/Florida/Publications/Citrus/Citrus_Statistics/2016-17/fcs1617.pdf 143,000 tonnes of Citrus fruit grown in North and Central Florida in 2017 which equates to 32% of Florida's Citrus production. Cute.... You missed the point...... THERE USED TO BE ALMOST 100% OF CITRUS GROVES FROM CENTRAL FLORIDA NORTH..... THE 'REAL" COLD WEATHER KILLED THAT OFF, AND NOW MOST OF THE FRUIT (66% ACCORDING TO YOU) NOW COMES FROM SOUTH FLORIDA, WHICH HAD HISTORICALLY BEEN USED FOR WINTER CROPS AND CATTLE...... oh, by the way: more fraud evidence: https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2019/02/the-greatest-scandal-in-the-history-of-science.php http://joannenova.com.au/2019/02/history-keeps-getting-colder-acorn2-raises-australias-warming-rate-by-over-20/ Edited February 21, 2019 by Illurion Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Illurion + 894 IG February 21, 2019 12 hours ago, ronwagn said: Do you drive an electric car yet Janet? I would wait for the VW and other models to come out. More price competition. agreed.. i would not mind an ev, but they are SO expensive, and are do not provide as much protection in an accident as gas powered cars... 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickW + 2,714 NW February 21, 2019 56 minutes ago, Illurion said: Cute.... You miss the point...... THERE USED TO BE ALMOST 100% OF CITRUS GROVES FROM CENTRAL FLORIDA NORTH..... THE 'REAL" COLD WEATHER KILLED THAT OFF, AND NOW MOST OF THE FRUIT (66% ACCORDING TO YOU) NOW COMES FROM SOUTH FLORIDA, WHICH HAD HISTORICALLY BEEN USED FOR WINTER CROPS AND CATTLE...... oh, by the way: more fraud evidence: https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2019/02/the-greatest-scandal-in-the-history-of-science.php http://joannenova.com.au/2019/02/history-keeps-getting-colder-acorn2-raises-australias-warming-rate-by-over-20/ Almost one third of Florida's Citrus is produced in the North and Central areas. That's 133,000 tonnes of finished produce. If its too cold for Citrus why is anything produced at all? Perhaps of course the real reason is urban encroachment on farm land and conversion of land to other uses. The UK used to be entirely covered in forest. Its not now. Anything to do with climate, of course not as it simply reflects a change in land use. If you are 'feeling' the cold maybe its your circulation? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickW + 2,714 NW February 21, 2019 (edited) This details factors such as inward migration and extensive development in NE Florida which gives a more rational explanation than Illurions claim that North Florida is too cold to grow citrus (Well not according to USDA) http://floridaclimateinstitute.org/docs/climatebook/Ch02-Volk.pdf Another factor in the relative decline of Florida Citrus may have been trade agreements to reduced tariffs on imports - GATT, NAFTA? Edited February 21, 2019 by NickW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Illurion + 894 IG February 21, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, NickW said: Almost one third of Florida's Citrus is produced in the North and Central areas. That's 133,000 tonnes of finished produce. If its too cold for Citrus why is anything produced at all? Perhaps of course the real reason is urban encroachment on farm land and conversion of land to other uses. The UK used to be entirely covered in forest. Its not now. Anything to do with climate, of course not as it simply reflects a change in land use. If you are 'feeling' the cold maybe its your circulation? (1) The 33% you are talking about is mostly what is left in Central Florida. There is not much left at all in North Florida. (2) It is very simple, THOSE REMAINING CENTRAL AND NORTHERN GROVE OWNERS INVESTED IN EQUIPMENT TO HEAT THE GROVES ON EARLY FROST MORNINGS, AND FREEZING COLD NIGHTS TO KEEP WHAT FEW GROVES WE HAVE LEFT FROM BEING DESTROYED... I myself had to purchase smudge-pots to save my own trees, but still lost half of them.... (3) YOU ARE PUTTING THE "CART BEFORE THE HORSE", The vast amounts of former GROVE land that was converted to HOUSING happened "BECAUSE OF THE GROVES BEING DESTROYED BY FREEZING FIRST".......... IF THE GROVES HAD NOT BEEN DESTROYED IN THE FIRST PLACE, THE LAND WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN CONVERTED....... (4) I noticed you ignored commenting on the further evidence of FRAUD AND CORRUPTION IN THE FAKING AND MANIPULATION OF WEATHER DATA TO MAKE BELIEVE THAT GLOBAL WARMING EXISTS...... why....? does the truth hurt ? ps: THE COLD DOES AFFECT MY CIRCULATION......... BECAUSE IT ACTUALLY EXISTS.... UNLIKE GLOBAL WARMING........ Edited February 21, 2019 by Illurion Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickW + 2,714 NW February 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, Illurion said: (1) The 33% you are talking about is mostly what is left in Central Florida. There is not much left at all in North Florida. (2) It is very simple, THOSE REMAINING CENTRAL AND NORTHERN GROVE OWNERS INVESTED IN EQUIPMENT TO HEAT THE GROVES ON EARLY FROST MORNINGS, AND FREEZING COLD NIGHTS TO KEEP WHAT FEW GROVES WE HAVE LEFT FROM BEING DESTROYED... I myself had to purchase smudge-pots to same my own trees, but still lost half of them.... (3) YOU ARE PUTTING THE "CART BEFORE THE HORSE", The vast amounts of former GROVE land that was converted to HOUSING happened "BECAUSE OF THE GROVES BEING DESTROYED BY FREEZING FIRST".......... IF THE GROVES HAD NOT BEEN DESTROYED IN THE FIRST PLACE, THE LAND WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN CONVERTED....... (4) I noticed you ignored commenting on the further evidence of FRAUD AND CORRUPTION IN THE FAKING AND MANIPULATION OF WEATHER DATA TO MAKE BELIEVE THAT GLOBAL WARMING EXISTS...... why....? does the truth hurt ? Of course one aspect of Global warming is that it may affect parts of the climate that moderate Florida's climate. One is that if loads of fresh water is pouring into the North Atlantic from melting glaciers this will slow down the thermo-haline conveyor which draws the gulf stream past Florida. Secondly GW also interferes with the positioning of the Jetstream so that may also give rise to more extreme weather. 4. Show us some tangible evidence then that all this data is a fraud. I'm not talking some Kon-spiracy website hosted by a couple of swivel eyed loons. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Illurion + 894 IG February 21, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, NickW said: Of course one aspect of Global warming is that it may affect parts of the climate that moderate Florida's climate. One is that if loads of fresh water is pouring into the North Atlantic from melting glaciers this will slow down the thermo-haline conveyor which draws the gulf stream past Florida. Secondly GW also interferes with the positioning of the Jetstream so that may also give rise to more extreme weather. 4. Show us some tangible evidence then that all this data is a fraud. I'm not talking some Kon-spiracy website hosted by a couple of swivel eyed loons. lol... MORE GARBAGE..... FLORIDA DOES "NOT" HAVE A "MODERATE" CLIMATE........ NORTH FLORIDA IS "HUMID-SUB-TROPICAL" SOUTH FLORIDA IS "TROPICAL" So, you see, COLD weather cold enough to freeze and kill millions of citrus trees in FLORIDA is pretty bad... HERE IS AN ARTICLE TALKING ABOUT THOSE TIMES: https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/lake/os-christmas-1989-citrus-freeze-25-anniversary-20141223-story.html There was a study out not to long ago (you can look it up if you like) that debunks the recent claims that the Gulf Stream has been weakened or changed... The study says there has been NO change in the Gulf Stream... https://dailycaller.com/2019/02/01/evidence-against-climate-disaster/ As for the Jet Stream, THERE IS NO EXACT SET ROUTE FOR THE JET STREAM... IT IS CONSTANTLY CHANGING ON A DAILY BASIS, AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN...... NO change there either......... I already showed you 10 or so links the other day about GARBAGE data linked to the global warming hoax........ And i just linked you to TWO MORE......... YET YOU STILL ASK FOR MORE.......... Liberal hacks......... FACTS MEAN NOTHING TO THEM........... As for "swivel eyed loons"........... YOU ARE LOOKING IN THE MIRROR..... The other day you laughed off one of the links i listed for you and said "magazines ".... That MAGAZINE happened to be the MAIN magazine published by the US Naval Academy...... As for modern day links, for a real educational list of fraudulent global warming studies, you might start here: http://www.climatedepot.com Every day they link to another global warming misinformation scheme..... Todays is: Green New Deal’s false scientific premise exposed: Physicist rips cow farting climate fears: ‘Worrying about methane emissions is the greatest waste of time’ Edited February 21, 2019 by Illurion 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickW + 2,714 NW February 21, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Illurion said: lol... MORE GARBAGE..... FLORIDA DOES "NOT" HAVE A "MODERATE" CLIMATE........ Please try to read what I wrote or learn something about basic English syntax. I said the gulf stream that moderates Florida's climate. In this context it means to reduce extremes of variation. I never said Florida has a moderate climate as I know full well it is subtropical. Edited February 21, 2019 by NickW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickW + 2,714 NW February 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Illurion said: lol... There was a study out not to long ago (you can look it up if you like) that debunks the recent claims that the Gulf Stream has been weakened or changed... The study says there has been NO change in the Gulf Stream... https://dailycaller.com/2019/02/01/evidence-against-climate-disaster/ Well obviously not these. http://wedocs.unep.org/bitstream/handle/20.500.11822/17802/Exceptional_twentiethcentury_slowdown_in_Atla.pdf This study found the TH circulation at 1000 year low https://www.npr.org/2018/04/13/602240020/atlantic-ocean-current-slows-down-to-1-000-year-low-studies-show?t=1550769549353 Article for physics.Org provided by Columbia Uni. https://phys.org/news/2017-06-climate-gulf-stream.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ronwagn + 6,290 February 21, 2019 On 2/19/2019 at 10:00 PM, Sukumar Ray said: Despite the sufferings, deaths and warnings by experts, some section is hell bent on proving issues like Climate Change, Global warming as Hoax. Some section of hell should then be provided for those who oppose natural gas replacing coal. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ronwagn + 6,290 February 21, 2019 7 hours ago, NickW said: Almost one third of Florida's Citrus is produced in the North and Central areas. That's 133,000 tonnes of finished produce. If its too cold for Citrus why is anything produced at all? Perhaps of course the real reason is urban encroachment on farm land and conversion of land to other uses. The UK used to be entirely covered in forest. Its not now. Anything to do with climate, of course not as it simply reflects a change in land use. If you are 'feeling' the cold maybe its your circulation? South Florida weather keeps southern Florida the most popular and populated. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickW + 2,714 NW February 21, 2019 48 minutes ago, ronwagn said: South Florida weather keeps southern Florida the most popular and populated. I know the Miami area is going to be most populated bbut this would suggest there is a fair amount of settlement in the central and North areas. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickW + 2,714 NW February 21, 2019 1 hour ago, ronwagn said: Some section of hell should then be provided for those who oppose natural gas replacing coal. I would generally agree. I had wondered whether the rise in atmospheric methane was attributable to the NG industry but it isn't. It would appear NG companies are proactive in preventing leaks and flaring surplus gas where necessary (better to use it though). The worrying side of this is that the rise is down to organic processes, release from permafrosts etc which we have less control over. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Illurion + 894 IG February 22, 2019 7 hours ago, NickW said: Please try to read what I wrote or learn something about basic English syntax. I said the gulf stream that moderates Florida's climate. In this context it means to reduce extremes of variation. I never said Florida has a moderate climate as I know full well it is subtropical. Ah, you are correct. I misread what you wrote on that point. My apologies... 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Illurion + 894 IG February 22, 2019 7 hours ago, NickW said: Well obviously not these. http://wedocs.unep.org/bitstream/handle/20.500.11822/17802/Exceptional_twentiethcentury_slowdown_in_Atla.pdf This study found the TH circulation at 1000 year low https://www.npr.org/2018/04/13/602240020/atlantic-ocean-current-slows-down-to-1-000-year-low-studies-show?t=1550769549353 Article for physics.Org provided by Columbia Uni. https://phys.org/news/2017-06-climate-gulf-stream.html And the one i posted is the most recent...... Time will tell... But, regardless, i suspect that if the Gulf Stream were really getting slower, and weaker, then we would see a change in the patterns of the hurricanes that feed off the stream and follow it north every year... ie: the hurricanes would stray from the stream earlier, and more often if it was weaker... I have not noticed that happening.... They are still following the established pattern of going ashore from the Carolinas to Maryland. If the stream were weaker, they would drop out of the stream, and come ashore in Central Florida or so... 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skeptic + 6 pn February 22, 2019 On 2/20/2019 at 9:58 AM, Old-Ruffneck said: Yuppers, it's still winter!!! Sunny and 70 here in West Texas 🙂 yea ruffneck wait a few days, you'll be singing a different song Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Old-Ruffneck + 1,235 er February 22, 2019 17 minutes ago, skeptic said: yea ruffneck wait a few days, you'll be singing a different song NOAA forcast for here is mid 70's tomorrow and Saturday 65/they rarely get right the weather here. Not sure why you would downvote me tho, hmmmmmmm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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