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13 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

 

Without looking into it myself, let’s say that maintenance costs ARE greatly reduced, but there is some maintenance required. Where is the closest shop to Topeka to have this performed? How many shops are in the Topeka area authorized to do the work?

Finally, what is the infrastructure set up in Kansas?

 

All auto shops can handle electricity/computers as even ICE cars are full of electronics nowadays.  Hybrids have been around for a long time already.

Kansas has a whole list of problems unrelated to cars; but really electricity infrastructure is already setup everywhere, a plug can be installed by an electrician rather quickly. 

Edited by Enthalpic
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3 minutes ago, Enthalpic said:

All auto shops can handle electricity/computers as even ICE cars are full of electronics nowadays.

Kansas has a whole list of problems unrelated to cars; but really electricity infrastructure is already setup everywhere, a plug can be installed by an electrician rather quickly. 

I’m assuming you mean an electrician could wire up a charging point at his house...correct?

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1 minute ago, Douglas Buckland said:

I’m assuming you mean an electrician could wire up a charging point at his house...correct?

Not always, some houses can't handle high amperage and would require some retrofit.

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For now you can charge up for FREE at many places - that is a big selling point but eventually they will meter it and charge.

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1 minute ago, Enthalpic said:

Not always, some houses can't handle high amperage and would require some retrofit.

Do you see my point? Now, the vehicle needs coolers/heaters and (if possible) he needs to get a charging station installed at his house - a ‘hidden’ cost. As far as long trips go, perhaps more headaches!

I am simply pointing out that EV’s may still be a ‘hard sell’ to rank and file perspective buyers (as opposed to staying in their ICE comfort zone).

I have been playing the Devil’s Advocate because I was actually interested in what you would say.,Thanks for putting up with me.

I am an unrepentant petro/gearhead. That said, somebody on this site sent me the specs and photos of Audi’s new EV, and it makes an old gearhead like me want to test drive one!

Thanks again!

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(edited)

6 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Do you see my point? Now, the vehicle needs coolers/heaters and (if possible) he needs to get a charging station installed at his house - a ‘hidden’ cost. As far as long trips go, perhaps more headaches!

I am simply pointing out that EV’s may still be a ‘hard sell’ to rank and file perspective buyers (as opposed to staying in their ICE comfort zone).

I have been playing the Devil’s Advocate because I was actually interested in what you would say.,Thanks for putting up with me.

I am an unrepentant petro/gearhead. That said, somebody on this site sent me the specs and photos of Audi’s new EV, and it makes an old gearhead like me want to test drive one!

Thanks again!

Upside of having a charging station at your house is the EV  - in theory - can put power back into the grid.  Jan was ruining his BMW recently just to stay warm...  an EV can actually act as the powerbank he is thinking about buying.

Edited by Enthalpic

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(edited)

33 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

 

I am an unrepentant petro/gearhead. That said, somebody on this site sent me the specs and photos of Audi’s new EV, and it makes an old gearhead like me want to test drive one!

I want one but at the rate I drive my Yaris will sadly last until I die.

Edited by Enthalpic

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2 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

Of course IC engines waste loads of heat energy and already have massive cooling systems that fail frequently and need regular maintenance - just to compare apples to apples.

Also lead acid batteries last ~7 years if you are good to them, maybe 5 if you live in the damn cold.

In the damn cold we also need block heaters, well not me personally (heated parking), but IC engines waste electricity almost all night long in very cold areas.

Nobody complains about that stuff but will complain that a EV needs tires...

I have never had a problem with a modern cooling system in an ICE. I don't change the fluid or top it off either. I did burn up some rings by not adding an oil cooler to an old van I pulled with. 

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(edited)

6 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

I have never had a problem with a modern cooling system in an ICE. I don't change the fluid or top it off either. I did burn up some rings by not adding an oil cooler to an old van I pulled with. 

I had a water pump die, and a head gasket die.  Water pump was 10 bucks from a self-serve auto wreaker.  I just ignored the headgasket and blew white exhaust for a while until I bought a new car.  Toyotas never die - thing still started no problem until I gave it to a charity.

Edited by Enthalpic
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2 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

Upside of having a charging station at your house is the EV  - in theory - can put power back into the grid.  Jan was ruining his BMW recently just to stay warm...  an EV can actually act as the powerbank he is thinking about buying.

Downside is that the cost of purchasing and installing the charging station needs to be considered as an additional cost of purchasing the EV....

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2 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

I had a water pump die, and a head gasket die.  Water pump was 10 bucks from a self-serve auto wreaker.  I just ignored the headgasket and blew white exhaust for a while until I bought a new car.  Toyotas never die - thing still started no problem until I gave it to a charity.

I have never owned a new car. I prefer to buy old ones, rebuild them and do my own repairs and maintenance. Just a different mind set.

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22 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

This car makes gearheads drool...😈

Yep and I'm one of those

You do need that throaty roar though so I hope they put that sound effect in as it wouldn't be the same experience otherwise!

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4 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Yep and I'm one of those

You do need that throaty roar though so I hope they put that sound effect in as it wouldn't be the same experience otherwise!

I am sure we could figure out something, once we stole a couple....

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9 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Does ‘Grand Theft Auto’ have a soundtrack?

I'm sure it does Douglas 🤣

Were you a truly "wild child" in your youth mate?

Maybe you still are ☺️

Here's hoping

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15 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

I'm sure it does Douglas 🤣

Were you a truly "wild child" in your youth mate?

Maybe you still are ☺️

Here's hoping

Rob, I’m damn near 60 at this stage of the game!😂

But as the Dead said, ‘What a long strange trip it’s been’.

Probably not any wilder than any other guy who left the comfort of the States when he was 24 to go play in the international oilfield. MOST of it has been quite a bit of fun.

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1 hour ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Rob, I’m damn near 60 at this stage of the game!😂

But as the Dead said, ‘What a long strange trip it’s been’.

Probably not any wilder than any other guy who left the comfort of the States when he was 24 to go play in the international oilfield. MOST of it has been quite a bit of fun.

Haha I bet you've got a few stories

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12 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Yep and I'm one of those

You do need that throaty roar though so I hope they put that sound effect in as it wouldn't be the same experience otherwise!

I thought they were going to regulate that EVs have to make a little more noise after the increase in pedestrians walking in front of cars because they don't hear them coming.

For giggles I'd program the ice cream truck song into that sexy car. LOL

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12 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Does ‘Grand Theft Auto’ have a soundtrack?

The radio stations on GTA 5 are hilarious.

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(edited)

On 11/13/2019 at 10:27 PM, Douglas Buckland said:

I’m assuming you mean an electrician could wire up a charging point at his house...correct?

This is a necessity to make an EV practical. Currently, besides a few, very slow, free chargers, there isnt an economical way to charge a car without an in home charger....at least where I live. 

Fast chargers bill you based on the time your plugged in and the "power level" being delivered. (Ie. How quickly your charging the car) this is broken into a couple tiers i don't know off hand. Electrify America is the company making the most headway where i live. With a membership, I think its $0.42 per min. Your mileage will vary based on car model, but for the IPace 60% battery can potentially be charged in about 40 minutes (from 20% to 80%). This would offer roughly 130 miles range and cost $16.80. At home, the cost to go from 0 to 100% battery, roughly 90 kwh, is $10.44. At home is very very cost effective. Public chargers are equal to or more expensive than gas.

Just for comparison, a thirsty but similar size vehicle to the Ipace would probably average 30mpg. So, 160 miles would burn 5.33 gallons at current cost around $2.30 per gal is $12.66 to refill. It would take longer to swipe your card and pay than it would to pump the gas.

Now, the entire range, 234 miles, would require 7.8 gallons costing ~$18.00. So here, if I'm charging off my home charger, I'm saving almost $8 every 234 miles by charging at home vs using gas. 

Point is, electric cars are not practical or cost effective unless you plan to set up a home charger and only use it for daily commuting where your commute doesn't exceed the range on a single charge.

Edit: if your comfortable with residential wiring and fishing a cable through a wall - installing a charger is relatively easy. Between 50' of 6-gauge wire, a 40-amp breaker, and the actual ChargePoint charger, it think it cost me $600 at most to put in the charger.

Edited by PE Scott

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(edited)

18 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

I thought they were going to regulate that EVs have to make a little more noise after the increase in pedestrians walking in front of cars because they don't hear them coming.

For giggles I'd program the ice cream truck song into that sexy car. LOL

Yeah you’re right I did point this out to Douglas earlier 

I like the ice cream van tune idea though, you’d have loads of kids running after Teslas though

 

Edited by Rob Plant

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(edited)

6 hours ago, PE Scott said:

This is a necessity to make an EV practical. Currently, besides a few, very slow, free chargers, there isnt an economical way to charge a car without an in home charger....at least where I live. 

Probably true.  In Alberta we have very few public changing stations, because pro-oil obviously, but when I travel through British Columbia they have free chargers (BC Hydro) all over they place.  Even many of the highway rest stops have a bathroom, charging station and free Wifi.  Pretty sweet.

The nice Hotels in Edmonton almost all have a few Tesla spots, but not really practical unless staying there or going to an attached restaurant.

 

Edited by Enthalpic

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On 11/13/2019 at 11:39 PM, Douglas Buckland said:

Do you see my point? Now, the vehicle needs coolers/heaters and (if possible) he needs to get a charging station installed at his house - a ‘hidden’ cost. As far as long trips go, perhaps more headaches!

I am simply pointing out that EV’s may still be a ‘hard sell’ to rank and file perspective buyers (as opposed to staying in their ICE comfort zone).

I have been playing the Devil’s Advocate because I was actually interested in what you would say.,Thanks for putting up with me.

I am an unrepentant petro/gearhead. That said, somebody on this site sent me the specs and photos of Audi’s new EV, and it makes an old gearhead like me want to test drive one!

Thanks again!

 

On 11/14/2019 at 2:22 AM, Douglas Buckland said:

Downside is that the cost of purchasing and installing the charging station needs to be considered as an additional cost of purchasing the EV....

 

On 11/15/2019 at 11:40 AM, PE Scott said:

This is a necessity to make an EV practical. Currently, besides a few, very slow, free chargers, there isnt an economical way to charge a car without an in home charger....at least where I live. 

Fast chargers bill you based on the time your plugged in and the "power level" being delivered. (Ie. How quickly your charging the car) this is broken into a couple tiers i don't know off hand. Electrify America is the company making the most headway where i live. With a membership, I think its $0.42 per min. Your mileage will vary based on car model, but for the IPace 60% battery can potentially be charged in about 40 minutes (from 20% to 80%). This would offer roughly 130 miles range and cost $16.80. At home, the cost to go from 0 to 100% battery, roughly 90 kwh, is $10.44. At home is very very cost effective. Public chargers are equal to or more expensive than gas.

Just for comparison, a thirsty but similar size vehicle to the Ipace would probably average 30mpg. So, 160 miles would burn 5.33 gallons at current cost around $2.30 per gal is $12.66 to refill. It would take longer to swipe your card and pay than it would to pump the gas.

Now, the entire range, 234 miles, would require 7.8 gallons costing ~$18.00. So here, if I'm charging off my home charger, I'm saving almost $8 every 234 miles by charging at home vs using gas. 

Point is, electric cars are not practical or cost effective unless you plan to set up a home charger and only use it for daily commuting where your commute doesn't exceed the range on a single charge.

Edit: if your comfortable with residential wiring and fishing a cable through a wall - installing a charger is relatively easy. Between 50' of 6-gauge wire, a 40-amp breaker, and the actual ChargePoint charger, it think it cost me $600 at most to put in the charger.

@Douglas Buckland, I see your point, but you're mostly wrong on this one. 

An EV can be charged from any home outlet, and this is sufficient for most people's needs. In the US:

1)  A standard 115V outlet:  These exist in every home and every garage built since probably 1970.  They provide at least (115V)*(20A)(.8) = 1.8kW of continuous power, 99% of users will have at least 8 hours of daily charging time between coming home from and leaving for work, and EVs obtain at least 3 miles/kWh.  That means users will charge at least (1.8kW)*(8 hours)*(3 miles/kWh) = 43.2 miles/day.  That covers the vast majority of commuters in the US. 

2)  A 220V outlet:  Home Depot sells 200A circuit breakers for these, but many homes can't handle that.  Let's assume the vast majority of homes can handle a 50A, 220V circuit breaker in the existing main panel.  (215V)*(50A)*(.8) = 8.6kW.  (8.6kW)*(8 hours)*(3 miles/kWh) = 206 miles/day.  You could run a delivery business, and this would still meet your needs.

Thus, the vast majority of US commuters need not install any charging equipment, and people running delivery businesses out of their homes will need to invest $250 in a 220V outlet - an investment that will pay for itself in months.  That's not a financial obstacle. 

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