Biomass, Ethanol No Longer Green

33 minutes ago, Marina Schwarz said:

I don't think they were ever viewed as green by environmentalists unless they were genuinely utilising a waste product such as waste vegetable oil. 

One only has to look at Biodiesel. 1200-1500 litres of diesel per acre of Canola. Thats going to work well isn't it.......

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when an average person understand they've being lied to about climate change (standard of living has to change for this) - people will get really pissed off. Like in Paris. Can't wait to see CNN and CBS flipping...

Such a hypocrisy - if one believe into CO2 driving warming, how is same person can protest against nuclear and support biofuel which leads to deforestation as in England before start of coal mining?

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Burning waste products also emits stuff, alas. That's why some people remind us regularly there is no such thing as a completely emissionless energy.

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11 hours ago, DanilKa said:

standard of living has to change for this)

Exactly but few are ready to do it. @Rodent wrote a brilliant blog about it a while ago.

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On 3/13/2019 at 2:16 AM, DanilKa said:

when an average person understand they've being lied to about climate change (standard of living has to change for this) - people will get really pissed off. Like in Paris. Can't wait to see CNN and CBS flipping...

I tend to agree, but this is not looking at all variables. For example - what about cost of climate refugees? I really dislike when people zero in on one thing and disregard the nig picture. 

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On 3/11/2019 at 10:02 PM, Marina Schwarz said:

 

On 3/13/2019 at 8:45 PM, Marina Schwarz said:

Burning waste products also emits stuff, alas. That's why some people remind us regularly there is no such thing as a completely emissionless energy.

Once upon a time............. there were two very close words e.g prostrate and prostate; castration vs circumcision........... people sometimes mistakenly pronounce one for another.......... so might be green and clean ............or no??

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On 3/18/2019 at 11:42 PM, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

I tend to agree, but this is not looking at all variables. For example - what about cost of climate refugees? I really dislike when people zero in on one thing and disregard the nig picture. 

"climate refugees" is such a brilliant term - it demands you to spring into action...

In reality, its about wealth redistribution and more lies. Some "ocean rise" is actually geologic subsidence and increase in Pacific islands area is not publicized.

From what I've understood so far role of humans in changing climate is highly exaggerated; climate is dominated by sun activity (including magnetic or lack thereof which seem to affect clouds formation via seeding by cosmic rays) and CO2 is weak greenhouse gas compared to water vapor. CO2 decays in atmosphere; it's concentration increases with warming  but there is ~14,000years lag of concentration drop from cooling inception (disproving causation of warming) - from Vostok Lake ice core isotope analysis. Do you own research, there is too much info out there.

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Ethanol from sugar cane or corn and biodiesel from soybean were never green or clean, they required more fossil fuels to produce from running the corn and sugar cane ethanol and soy diesel plants to the fertilizers, to the pesticides , to growing and harvesting and processing these food crops. The pollution it created from the run offs and the dead zones in the GoM and the devastation of wetlands and grasslands converted to growing these crops and the destruction of the Amazon rain forest down in Brazil. It was the scam of the "green" pre dating the push for wind and solar and EV's.

All those three are not clean or green by any means but the people pushing for those want to hide the facts about the environmental destruction caused by those alternatives and they are no more renewable sources of energy than fossil fuels

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except from the original article: "A lot depends on journalists, who have until now been largely uncritical cheerleaders of renewables.

I recently reviewed the last 50 years of the New York Times’ coverage of biofuels and biomass and was fairly appalled by what I found. Not only was its news coverage heavily slanted toward biomass and biofuels since the 1970s, the opeds it ran were consistently one-sided.

That started to change in 2008 when theTimes and other media reported on the trouble with biofuels. Even so, it took until 2018 for the Times to do a major Magazinepiece on how US and European biofuels policies have abetted rainforest destruction."

so politicians are to blame for polarizing the topic, or should I say capitalizing on the topic, and journalists are to blame for not doing due diligence.

When it comes right down to it, people are constantly looking to reaffirm what they already believe to be true. It is a rare quality indeed for someone to openly search for the truth, whatever that might be, even when it does not align with what one originally had thought might be true.

Unfortunately, this leads to leaving lots of stones unturned. 

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On 3/19/2019 at 11:38 PM, DanilKa said:

climate refugees" is such a brilliant term - it demands you to spring into action...

Say what you will. It is real. And has nothing to do with what caused the climate to change. 

On this forum the immigration into Europe has been discussed countless times - significant climate change, rising water level will increase that immigration. Something has to be done to mitigate that (and no genocide is not an option). Whether or not renewables is the answer I am not the right to answer, but it seems to be part of the puzzle. 

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11 hours ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

Whether or not renewables is the answer I am not the right to answer, but it seems to be part of the puzzle. 

When the answer causing more problems and suffering and existence of problem it trying to solve is debatable - its one hell of a puzzle. Heck, I'm puzzled intelligent people like yourself are concerned with it. There are much bigger issues to worry about - debt-ridden economy on a verge of collapse, endless wars causing hundreds of thousands lost life and millions of real refugees, etc.  

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On 3/18/2019 at 8:42 AM, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

I tend to agree, but this is not looking at all variables. For example - what about cost of climate refugees? I really dislike when people zero in on one thing and disregard the nig picture. 

What "Climate Refugees"?  All I see is a lot of ECONOMIC refugees fleeing poverty.

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(edited)

A lot of Americans fleeing south to warmer weather in Latin America for their retirement. The population center of the United States is now near Branson, Missouri which is near the Arkansas border. Will probably move to Oklahoma in the census after the next one. 

When the population center starts moving north for the first time you might have an argument for global warming. It has been moving southwest since the beginning of the country in the Northeast. 

Edited by ronwagn
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On 3/13/2019 at 8:46 PM, Marina Schwarz said:

Exactly but few are ready to do it. @Rodent wrote a brilliant blog about it a while ago.

Link please

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On 4/27/2019 at 5:45 AM, Oil_Engineer said:

What "Climate Refugees"?  All I see is a lot of ECONOMIC refugees fleeing poverty.

 

image_459e25da-029c-4df2-9dd7-d947e0db153e20190422_144918.jpg

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3 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Link please

Erm... @Rodent?

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On 4/26/2019 at 11:45 PM, Oil_Engineer said:

What "Climate Refugees"?  All I see is a lot of ECONOMIC refugees fleeing poverty.

I tend to focus on the big picture - for example : Europe is flooded with refugees / immigrants from Syria and adjacent areas. The direct cause of this stream is ISIS. The direct cause of ISIS is the power vacuum left by western powers pulling out of Iraq. Cause and effect. 

Desertification of Africa is making it more difficult for African farmers to feed themselfes and their families; as a result they seek towards Europe. It is likely not the only reason, but probably a contributing factor. 

I am making an argument for immigration into Europe or the US. I am however saying that we need to look at the big picture - the climate is changing. It may not be the end of the world, but it will effect our lives. There's a saying in Denmark : when the winds of change are blowing you can choose to build shelters or windmills.... 

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3 hours ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

I tend to focus on the big picture - for example : Europe is flooded with refugees / immigrants from Syria and adjacent areas. The direct cause of this stream is ISIS. The direct cause of ISIS is the power vacuum left by western powers pulling out of Iraq. Cause and effect. 

Desertification of Africa is making it more difficult for African farmers to feed themselfes and their families; as a result they seek towards Europe. It is likely not the only reason, but probably a contributing factor. 

I am making an argument for immigration into Europe or the US. I am however saying that we need to look at the big picture - the climate is changing. It may not be the end of the world, but it will effect our lives. There's a saying in Denmark : when the winds of change are blowing you can choose to build shelters or windmills.... 

The Big Picture?  The human population has DOUBLED in less than fifty years.  Do you think that might have something to do with all of these "refugees" flooding the developed nations of the world?

 

The climate has always changed, and it always will.  It hasn't changed that much, but the population has.

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12 minutes ago, Oil_Engineer said:

The Big Picture?  The human population has DOUBLED in less than fifty years.  Do you think that might have something to do with all of these "refugees" flooding the developed nations of the world?

without doubt. 

13 minutes ago, Oil_Engineer said:

he climate has always changed, and it always will.  It hasn't changed that much, but the population has.

Agree. But at the same time it is naive to think that we are not affecting the earth and climate. I do not subscribe to the outlandish doomsday theories, but I do believe that we will see big changes in the in world and enviroment atleast in my kids' lifetime.. I do not consider myself a luddite, but it appears to me that not all change is neccesarily for the better... 

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15 hours ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

I tend to focus on the big picture - for example : Europe is flooded with refugees / immigrants from Syria and adjacent areas. The direct cause of this stream is ISIS. The direct cause of ISIS is the power vacuum left by western powers pulling out of Iraq. Cause and effect. 

Desertification of Africa is making it more difficult for African farmers to feed themselfes and their families; as a result they seek towards Europe. It is likely not the only reason, but probably a contributing factor. 

I am making an argument for immigration into Europe or the US. I am however saying that we need to look at the big picture - the climate is changing. It may not be the end of the world, but it will effect our lives. There's a saying in Denmark : when the winds of change are blowing you can choose to build shelters or windmills.... 

Actually ISIS was caused by true followers of ISLAM who were allowed to flourish when our moron BUSH killed Sadaam Hussein( "was removed") who was suppressing them violently.  Time to open a Quran and Hadith dude...  Europe loves this totalitarian religion/government.  Enjoy. 

Desertification of Africa has been happening for thousands of years.  Egypt used to be near Savannah 5000 years ago.  Mexico City used to be a lake a few hundred years ago.  It is a near dessert now.

WHINING about the climate changing due to natural cycles and the sun is pointless and stupid.  Just the lazy farts wanting to blame someone else. 

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On 4/29/2019 at 11:45 PM, Marina Schwarz said:

Erm... @Rodent?

I'm not sure it's "brilliant", but hey, I'll take what I can get. 

@Tom Kirkman

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5 hours ago, Rodent said:

I'm not sure it's "brilliant", but hey, I'll take what I can get. 

@Tom Kirkman

Nicely penned thoughts there, Rodent.  Some good points made.

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