IRAQ War: US soldiers died 4400, Wounded 32,000, US taxpayers spent $1.9 Trillion. How many Saudi or UAE soldiers died ? How much money did UAE or Saudi's spend ? How 'bout Europe "allies" ? What are we doing over there ? Don't need their oil .

(edited)

How much does US spend every year to assure Mideast oil flows to China, Asia, India, Europe ? 

Have we forgotten how OPEC (Saudi, UAE) threatened to destroy US shale 2014 ? Went after US production 1970's , 1984-1985 , 1998-1999 ?

Have we forgotten how Saudi Arabia cut off all heavy oil shipments to US as part of recent production cuts to spite US refinery margins and US gas consumers ?

Have we forgotten how Saudi Arabia threatened to abandon the petrodollar ?

Have we forgotten about the $200 Billion purchase agreement Trump signed with Saudis , that we have not seen a penny ?

Have we forgotten MBS ordered the butchering of Washington Post Journalist Khashoggi ?

WHAT ARE WE DOING OVER THERE ?

Trump will give Saudis anything if they help with 30 somthin' Jared Kushner Israeli/Palestine plan. 

Jared's plan gives Israelis Jerusalem, West Bank, NO two state, and right to put a security force inside Palestinian territory.  NO CHANCE. A NONSTARTER.

Then Saudi's give Palestinians $10 Billion.  Saudis know this goes nowhere . . .  just playing Trump as a fool. 

The three thirty something friends, 1. Jared Kushner (US), 2. Mohammed bin Salman, MBS (Saudi Arabia) and 3. Mohammed bin Zayed , MBZ (UAE) think they are gonna solve the Mideast conflicts. I wish them well but doubt any results.

US Mideast policy is in the hands of Jared Kushner and his judgement ?  He came close to sinking his family business by buying 666 Fifth Ave.  (after he joined his Father-in-Law's Administration his Father and Sister tried to get Qatar to bail them out using his influence.  

Spend the billions and trillions rebuilding US infrastructure.  Europe and China can pay for their own energy security.  They expect US to put up all the $$$  . . . . . . .  then balk at buying US LNG and OIL.

 

 

.

Edited by Falcon
  • Like 2
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

why would SA, UAE, Europe or anybody else for that matter spend money in Iraq, let alone send their kids to die there?

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(edited)

18 hours ago, Torgom Pogossian said:

why would SA, UAE, Europe or anybody else for that matter spend money in Iraq, let alone send their kids to die there?

SA, UAE, EUROPE all wanted US to spend money and send troops when Iraq was sending SCUD missiles into KSA and burning Kawait oil fields.

US needed their oil back then , not today.

What is US still doing there.  Trump rightfully wanted all US troops home after Obama's Syrian adventures. He should have followed through.

Today we're helping SA fight the Houthis in Yemen. Why ? The Saudis just resumed bombing the Yemen cities with IS support. The Saudis K street lobbyist bought the Congressional vote killing the bill that would have withdrawn US support. Now they use the supposed drone attack on pipeline to bomb Yemen city populations.

We must still be spending $Billions so Mideast oil flows freely to China, India and Europe and then they balk when asked to buy our LNG or oil.

Enough already. Close the bases in KSA, QATAR, DUBAI, BAHRAIN and IRAQ.  Bring them home.  

Invest the $ Trillions in US infrastructure and fight the war that counts, the economic war China has waged on US for the last 20 years. 

PS: Don't forget NATO billions.  Merkel has great relationship with Putin and his natural gas. No need for Billions of US dollars for NATO. Putin can buy her cars.  

 

Edited by Falcon
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There were two Iraq wars.  The first one was when George Bush Senior's totally stupid Ambassador made a totally stupid statement to Saddam that the US was not interested in border alignments between Iraq and Kuwait.  Saddam took that as a green light to invade and take over - which he did.  Then George Bush Sr. sent in the troops and Saddam's army got their asses kicked.  

OK, so fast forward from that.  Stinging in defeat, Saddam tries to assassinate George Bush Sr.  Now George Jr. becomes President.  He decides to get even with Saddam, and invades the place to capture or kill him.  The reason has nothing to do with oil.  It is payback time for trying to assassinate his father.   End of story.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(edited)

32 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

There were two Iraq wars. . . . . . .  It is payback time for trying to assassinate his father.   End of story.

Yes, two Iraq wars.  Bottom line get the US out of that "Snake Pit" called the middle East.  

I hope Bush Jr didn't sacrifice thousands of lives and spend over Trillion Dollars for payback. 

Either way , just get the hell out militarily. Strong economy is the best defense.  

US doesn't need to be an isolationist.  If Europe and China don't care about peace in Middle East why should US ?

If China and Europe don't care about Iran having a nuke, why should US ?

 

Edited by Falcon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We're still obligated to protect the Middle East as part of the petrodollars bargain. Net net, I'd say we're still trillions ahead in that deal, having established and sustaining the US dollar as the world's reserve currency. 

Iraq would have gone infinitely better if Brenner had never gotten any authority there. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Falcon said:

How much do we spend every year to assure oil flows to China, Asia, India, Europe ? 

Have we forgotten how OPEC (Saudi, UAE) threatened to destroy US shale?  

Have we forgotten how Saudi Arabia cut of all heavy oil shipments to US as part of recent production cuts ?

Have we forgotten how Saudi Arabia threatened to abandon the petrodollar ?

Have we forgotten about the $200 Billion purchase agreement Trump signed with Saudis , that we have not seen a penny ?

Have we forgotten MBS ordered the butchering of Washington Post Journalist Khashoggi ?

WHAT ARE WE DOING OVER THERE ?

Trump will give Saudis anything if they help with 30 somthin' Jared Kushner Israeli/Palestine plan. 

Jared's plan gives Israelis Jerusalem, West Bank, NO two state, and right to put a security force inside Palestinian territory.  NO CHANCE. A NONSTARTER.

Then Saudi's give Palestinians $10 Billion.  Saudis know this goes nowhere . . .  just playing Trump as a fool. 

The three thirty something friends, 1. Jared Kushner (US), 2. Mohammed bin Salman, MBS (Saudi Arabia) and 3. Mohammed bin Zayed , MBZ (UAE) think they are gonna solve the Mideast conflicts. I wish them well but doubt any results.

US Mideast policy is in the hands of Jared Kushner and his judgement ?  He came close to sinking his family business by buying 666 Fifth Ave.  (after he joined his Father-in-Law Administration his Father and Sister tried to get Qatar to bail them out selling his influence.  

Spend the billions and trillions rebuilding US infrastructure.  Europe and China can pay for their own energy security.  They expect US to put up all the $$$  . . . . . . .  then balk at buying US LNG and OIL.

 

 

.

Your correct you don’t need their oil but the US wants everyone to want theirs......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(edited)

1 hour ago, James Regan said:

Your correct you don’t need their oil but the US wants everyone to want theirs......

Of course.  It's called business.

The point is . . . Why does US continue to waste $ billions on them ? They can secure themselves.

Consumer countries can buy from whomever they wish. 

Edited by Falcon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(edited)

4 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

We're still obligated to protect the Middle East as part of the petrodollars bargain. Net net, I'd say we're still trillions ahead in that deal, having established and sustaining the US dollar as the world's reserve currency. 

Iraq would have gone infinitely better if Brenner had never gotten any authority there. 

Yes, US dollar as world currency is worth a lot.  US wouldn't be able to secure their debt offerings without its status. But there is no other viable currency.  The Saudi/OPEC have no choice . . . . at least not for now.  Maybe in the future.  If alternative becomes viable expect no loyalty from the likes of them. 

The Saudi and Emirate governments will do anything to survive. Watch them when the avg yearly Brent price drops to $50 at some point over the next 5 years.  

If Trump wants to deal with them to get Jared's plan put forward so be it.  His plan as leaked recently doesn't have a prayer. How Kushner can call a butcher like MBS a friend is beyond me. (Kashoggi's fiance' testifided before Congress today).

MBS was recently asked about the 138 beheadings in the last 6 months.  MBS said, "you don't understand our judicial systems".  Their judicial system is well understood. Its barbaric and based on Fifteenth Century edicts.  It's about time they joined the 21st Century. 

Edited by Falcon
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Falcon said:

Yes, US dollar as world currency is worth a lot.  US wouldn't be able to secure their debt offerings without its status. But there is no other viable currency.  The Saudi/OPEC have no choice . . . . at least not for now.  Maybe in the future.  If alternative becomes viable expect no loyalty from the likes of them. 

That road goes both ways. They dump us, we stop helping them and heads will literally roll. But China might make them an offer they can't refuse one day

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(edited)

1 hour ago, Ward Smith said:

That road goes both ways. They dump us, we stop helping them and heads will literally roll. But China might make them an offer they can't refuse one day

I say "China go for it".  

You know China is no economic Utopia. 

What they have accomplished in 20 years is amazing.  But their outstanding credit/debt to businesses and individuals is 3X GDP. That's very high. By comparison US is about 1.2 X.  US economy is twice the size of China with 1/3 the population.  There are record number of business defaults this year. Many manufacturers are looking to exit China and if Trump is successful US will no longer be the "piggy bank" it has been in the past.

China will continue to do well with $3 trillion in reserves.  There could be some bumps along the road. 

Edited by Falcon
  • Great Response! 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

News Flash

US service men and women have been dying for global security reasons since at least the early 1900's.

Nobody seemed to have a problem with US 'intervention' during WW1, WW2, the Korean War, the Kosovo fiasco, etc....

Trump is castigated for his supposed 'isolationist' views, but apparently the rest of the world wants the US to stay at home.

I say let the EU, Russia and China provide humanitarian aid globally and security for the Straits of Hormuz for a few years and see how that pans out.

Let the States bring their soldiers home and use that money for 'America First'. This seems to be what the international community wants....until they don't.

  • Great Response! 2
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lots of criticism, but no solutions. There are 3 big powers - the US, Russia, and China. If the US withdraws, Russia and China will divide the world between them. I don't know what the solution is. But, withdrawal would be a catastrophe. All wars - hot, cold, proxy - have blunders. Iraq was a blunder. So? You learn from blunders. You don't quit.

4400 military deaths in Iraq? That is sad. However, put in perspective, we let drunk drivers kill that many men, women, and CHILDREN every three months in this country because it would be "cruel" to imprison, at hard labor, drunk drivers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand what you are saying, but give me a single example where Russia or China have mobilized to assist anyone else unless it benefited them?

I believe that the US acted 'in good faith' in both Afghanistan and Iraq, there was never any intent to colonize or steal natural resources.

I remember the outcry when the US sent a helicopter carrier to Aceh after the tsunami. Why send a warship to a disaster area unless the US is simply projecting power? Then somebody did their homework. That vessel had 3 complete operating theaters onboard, a huge desalination plant to make fresh water and a fleet of helicopters to distribute the water and bring patients onboard.

Again, give me one example of Russia or China doing the same. Keep in mind that the American taxpayer was footing the bill.

  • Great Response! 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(edited)

21 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

Iraq would have gone infinitely better if Brenner had never gotten any authority there.

Paul Bremer (not Brenner;  his full name is I think Lewis Paul Bremer III) is, despite being an old Yalie  (OK, perhaps because of it), a complete screw-up.  He was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, coming from very rich and very tony New Canaan, Connecticut.   You have to understand the old-money, old privileged elite, class of Connecticut society to understand the Bremer mentality.  Guys like Bremer live in a different world from the rest of Americans.  New Canaan is Old Connecticut, what you see in those postcard-photos of stately country mansions on wooded country roads, the sort of place where the locals simply pay cash for their cars because nobody is short. 

Bremer showed up at the State Department and became a staffer there, involved with Henry Kissinger.  I think that connection came from his time at Harvard. Bremer gets appointed as Ambassador of the US to Nederland, notwithstanding that he never could speak any Dutch.  Ultimately he comes out of obscurity and is appointed to the job of running the Coalition Provisional Authority, where is first act was to disband the entire Iraqi army.  Well, if you turn loose an entire army and refuse to issue their back pay, and those guys have their weapons and the caches of artillery shells and small-arms rounds abandoned by the army, then don't be surprised that they run off with the ammunition and go on the warpath.   Bremer single-handedly started the long guerrilla war against the Americans, which eventually morphed into ISIS and whatever.  Right now, Bremer is in a small town in Vermont outside Brattleboro, where he occupies himself with being a part-time ski instructor. 

Was Bremer a colossal failure?  But of course.  Yet it was predictable.  You take some guy from elite New Canaan and you put him in charge in some part of the world which he cannot possibly understand  (as he has no understanding of poverty and how it drives entire populations) and you let him fire the commanding general there, and then you are surprised that it blows up.  I'm not. You could have picked any Army sergeant from the 101st and he would  have done a much better job.  Bremer was clueless.  Even worse, he had zero understanding that he was clueless. 

Edited by Jan van Eck
  • Great Response! 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

Paul Bremer (not Brenner;  his full name is I think Lewis Paul Bremer III) is, despite being an old Yalie  (OK, perhaps because of it), a complete screw-up.  He was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, coming from very rich and very tony New Canaan, Connecticut.   You have to understand the old-money, old privileged elite, class of Connecticut society to understand the Bremer mentality.  Guys like Bremer live in a different world from the rest of Americans.  New Canaan is Old Connecticut, what you see in those postcard-photos of stately country mansions on wooded country roads, the sort of place where the locals simply pay cash for their cars because nobody is short. 

Bremer showed up at the State Department and became a staffer there, involved with Henry Kissinger.  I think that connection came from his time at Harvard. Bremer gets appointed as Ambassador of the US to Nederland, notwithstanding that he never could speak any Dutch.  Ultimately he comes out of obscurity and is appointed to the job of running the Coalition Provisional Authority, where is first act was to disband the entire Iraqi army.  Well, if you turn loose an entire army and refuse to issue their back pay, and those guys have their weapons and the caches of artillery shells and small-arms rounds abandoned by the army, then don't be surprised that they run off with the ammunition and go on the warpath.   Bremer single-handedly started the long guerrilla war against the Americans, which eventually morphed into ISIS and whatever.  Right now, Bremer is in a small town in Vermont outside Brattleboro, where he occupies himself with being a part-time ski instructor. 

Was Bremer a colossal failure?  But of course.  Yet it was predictable.  You take some guy from elite New Canaan and you put him in charge is some part of the world which he cannot possibly understand  (as he has no understanding of poverty and how it drives entire populations) and you let him fire the commanding general there, and then you are surprised that it blows up.  I'm not. You could have picked any Army sergeant from the 101st and he would  have done a much better job.  Bremer was clueless.  Even worse, he had zero understanding that he was clueless. 

Aarggh, I was typing it correctly but for some reason it auto-corrected to Brenner from Bremer that I was swyping. My eyes aren't what they used to be, which is why I don't fly anymore except as copilot.  The two n's together looked good to me, just like one m. ;)

Everything else you say is correct. My brother went to Yale and they offered me a ride if I'd be on their debate team.  As you can tell, I like to argue but debate got old so I went in a different direction, a much smaller, vastly better at technology school. My net worth is at least 50 times better than my brother's so the Yale paper isn't that great. They definitely treat the scholarship students different than the old money crew. The only people he stayed friends with were like him, the old money crowd would happily use him for answers or entertainment, but they were never friends. He did come back with an endless fascination for Jewish American Princesses for some reason. Not that he liked them, it was more anthropology. ;)

  • Great Response! 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0