NYT: Mass Immigration Roundups in U.S. to Start Sunday

Roundups of undocumented immigrant families will start Sunday in 10 U.S. cities, fulfilling a hardline immigration stance from U.S. President Donald Trump which will be a key issue in his 2020 re-election bid, the New York Times reported. The raids will be conducted by Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents over a number of days starting July 14, the Times reported citing unnamed sources including two current and one former homeland security officials. Reuters could not independently confirm the pending government action early on Thursday. The officials told the Times that ICE agents were targeting at least 2,000 immigrants who have been ordered deported but remain in the country illegally. Trump said on July 5 that the mass roundups would begin “fairly soon,” even as migrant advocates vowed their communities would be “ready” when immigration officers come.

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There is always a struggle between law and emotional, law and pure human rights ... I'm sure that no one did not come here because they had good life there ...

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thousands of people will be arrested.. Simple, trauma for everything: for them, for the society and for their families

 

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I feel pity for those who have deportation orders, but in the same time law is a law and the best way is to find the middle and satisfy "both sides"..I don't know how would I  define  "the middle"...

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2 minutes ago, joze44 said:

I don't know how would I  define  "the middle"...

... then, try as basic human rights

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11 minutes ago, Pavel said:

... then, try as basic human rights

Law is law, illegal is illegal. Maybe now it sounds unpopular to write, but imagine guy who lives in the U.S. last 25 years and for all of this time, he has no documents. To put it mildly: sounds frivolous ...

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24 minutes ago, 50 shades of black said:

There is always a struggle between law and emotional, law and pure human rights ... I'm sure that no one did not come here because they had good life there ...

Then what is the answer? Not being rhetorical. Serious question.

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2 minutes ago, rainman said:

Then what is the answer? Not being rhetorical. Serious question.

I have no will to polemic, and I'm not expert for immigration to answer your question. But there is one sentence, it's easy to find it... First, they came for the immigrant, and I said nothing, because I was not an immigrant.

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Pelosi Rejects U.S. Sovereignty – U.S. Immigration Subject to Laws of “A Global Society”

In a stunning press conference today U.S. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi explains why she she has taken no action to curb the illegal immigration influx into the U.S.

While explaining why she will not allow congress to debate, change or modify U.S. immigration laws, Pelosi outlines how the United States is part of a global society, without borders and without any sovereign right to impede the “human society” from entering our nation.  Therefore, according to her outlook and worldview, U.S. politicians have no right to stop any migration movement.

Keep this in mind as we approach the 2020 election.  The Speaker of the House is essentially saying, openly, publicly and without any reservation or concern, the United States of America is no longer a sovereign nation.

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14 hours ago, pinto said:

thousands of people will be arrested.. Simple, trauma for everything: for them, for the society and for their families

 

Consequences of their lawbreaking. They need to go home and try to make their countries more like America. 

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A deep dive, lengthy, feature article into this illegal immigration mess, for lurkers to consider.  An alternative view to the bluster, nonsense, and panicked hyperbole and outright disinformation peddled on CNN and Mainstream Media.

Neither Democrats nor Republicans want this illegal immigrant cash cow to end. 

And Trump is seriously pissing off entrenched, corrupt DC politicians and corrupt, complicit U.S. organizations  (U.S. Chamber of Commerce, I'm looking squarely at you)  by actively trying to put an end to the increasing flow of literally millions of illegal immigrants into the U.S.

(Yes, I'm impressed that the author, Sundance, actually highlights the bad actor of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce.  Not often I see this COC corporate menace getting highlighted.)

 

The DC Illegal Immigration Business

Conservative Tree House has tracked this issue so closely through the years it often feels futile for another reminder.  However, with the insufferable political games in the headlines over the issue of illegal immigrants and children, perhaps it is worth another visit.

There is no greater disconnect from ordinary Americans on any singular issue than the policy positions of Democrats and Republicans in Washington DC surrounding illegal immigration.  President Donald Trump is confronting their unified interests.

Understanding The Big Racket.

immigration-collage.jpg?w=584

Massive illegal immigration is supported by both sides of the professional political machine.  There are few issues more unifying for the K-Street purchased voices of DC politicians than keeping the U.S. borders open and the influx of illegal aliens as high as possible.  The U.S. Chamber of Commerce pays politicians to keep this system in place.

All Democrats and most Republicans support mass immigration.  Almost no DC politicians want to take action on any policy or legislation that stops the influx.  There are billions at stake.  None of the GOP leadership want to actually stop illegal immigration; it’s a lucrative business.  Almost all of the CONservative groups and politicians lie about it.

The religious or ‘faith-based’ immigration groups are also part of the problem. In the past 15 years illegal immigration and refugee settlement has been financially beneficial for them.  Additionally, the prior actions of Ted Cruz, Glenn Beck et al show they are as committed to facilitating illegal immigration as Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Mitch McConnell, Ben Sasse, Kevin McCarthy, Lisa Murkowski and the rest of the Decepticons.

Washington DC and the activist media, are infested with illegal immigration supporters; the issue is at the heart of the UniParty. Follow the money. 

...

Sad thing is, it’s you and me that are paying the South American human smugglers through U.S. taxpayer funds. Laundered through the immigration business bagmen at U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, and/or, U.S. Catholic Charities, or Southwest Key Programs Inc; or Baptist Child and Family Services Emergency Management Division (BCFS-EMD), just to name a few.

These immigration groups, get *MASSIVE* HHS grants and then pay-off the DC politicians and human smugglers, including MS13. Billions of dollars are spent, and the business has exploded in the past six years.

It’s a vicious cycle. Trafficked children are more valuable than adults because the organizations involved get more funding for a child than an adult. Each illegal alien child is worth about $56,000 in grant money. The system is full of fraud.

From our prior research approximately 65% of the money they get is spent on executive pay and benefits, opaque administrative payrolls, bribes, kick-backs to DC politicians and payoffs to the South American smugglers who bring them more immigrants.

As best it can be determined, approximately 35% ($19,000) is spent on the alien/immigrant child; maybe. It gets sketchy deep in their accounting.

...

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On 7/11/2019 at 9:25 AM, damirUSBiH said:

Law is law, illegal is illegal. Maybe now it sounds unpopular to write, but imagine guy who lives in the U.S. last 25 years and for all of this time, he has no documents. To put it mildly: sounds frivolous ...

Drunk driving Americans break the law, with fatal consequences all the time. The law is the law - they should pay. Right?

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(edited)

On 7/11/2019 at 6:35 PM, Tom Kirkman said:

according to her outlook and worldview, U.S. politicians have no right to stop any migration movement.

Oh, rubbish.   Speaker Pelosi said no such thing.  

On 7/11/2019 at 6:35 PM, Tom Kirkman said:

The Speaker of the House is essentially saying, openly, publicly and without any reservation or concern, the United States of America is no longer a sovereign nation.

More rubbish.  I would suggest readers here carefully listen to (or better yet, find the transcript of) exactly what Speaker Pelosi said.  It is not the revised version that Mr. Kirkman has set forth for your consumption.  

It is all in the interpretation.  Tom seeks to put a certain spin on the words said, mostly out of a distaste for Democrats in general and Pelosi and AOG in particular.  It rather reminds me of the very proper British tourists arriving in that chaotic madhouse called Manhattan, and, seeing a long line of people near a subway platform entrance, asked a policeman, "Pardon me, Constable, is this the queue?"  

To which the policeman replied, in his classic New Yorkese:  "No, Ma'am, this is the Number 2 Line.  For the Q, you have to go over to 57th Street and Seventh Avenue!"

Edited by Jan van Eck
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(edited)

13 hours ago, Meredith Poor said:

Drunk driving Americans break the law, with fatal consequences all the time. The law is the law - they should pay. Right?

That is an interesting observation.  Meredith might be well advised to peruse and ponder the legal situation ("the law is the law - they should pay!")  that existed in Vermont back in 1794.  Just ask Seba Beebe; he was found with what turned out to be counterfeit Spanish coins.  That got him in serous trouble with the Authorities.  His instant punishment was to be sentenced to have his right ear cut off, then a glowing hot poker iron in the letter "C"  [for Counterfeiter] branded into his forehead, then fined five pounds  (British currency at the time, a lot of money).  When he couldn't pay, he was tossed into the Newbury jail, to sit there and rot until someone eventually paid his fine some years later. Whether or not he actually knew the coin was counterfeit, or had simply taken it innocently in trade, was never established  (nor, apparently even interesting to that court.  Hey, "the law is the law."). 

Eventually, he made his way to the Border of Vermont with Quebec, and settled on a piece of flat land right smack on that Border.  Today it is, appropriately enough, called "Beebe Plain."  The main road there is called Canusa Avenue  (For "Canada" and "USA," get it?) and you can walk twenty feet to the other side and be in another country, the actual Border runs right down the middle of the street, much to the chagrin of the ICE people. 

Punishments, to enforce the idea of "the law is the law," were fairly rough in those days.  Forehead branding was common enough, with "HT" for Horse Thief, and "R" for Robber.  Homosexuality  ["sodomy"]?  Horrors.   You were executed.  Hey, gotta enforce private morality somehow, so how about using Death?  Should work.  Mutilation was prevalent.  Rather makes the Taliban and their ideas of Sharia look rather mild, by comparison. 

If all you did was ignore the Sabbath, by for example not showing up for Church, well, there was always a day in the Stocks:

image.png.9ee529923e13dcb6babb8a4f6ec48575.png

Hey, at least they didn't brand you and cut off your ears for that one. 

You want to be very careful about harrumphing about "the Law is the Law."  Unpleasant people take over the reins of the Judiciary and then use it as an excuse for psychopathology, to inflict terrible harms on others.  Just lovely.

Edited by Jan van Eck
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On 7/11/2019 at 6:14 AM, Pavel said:

... then, try as basic human rights

Then round them up, send them home, or become a US citizen.  No more black market(destroys a country and those in the black market eventually).  Oh, and build a wall. 

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(edited)

1 hour ago, Jan van Eck said:

That is an interesting observation.  Meredith might be well advised to peruse and ponder the legal situation ("the law is the law - they should pay!")  that existed in Vermont back in 1794.  Just ask Seba Beebe; he was found with what turned out to be counterfeit Spanish coins.  That got him in serous trouble with the Authorities.  His instant punishment was to be sentenced to have his right ear cut off, then a glowing hot poker iron in the letter "C"  [for Counterfeiter] branded into his forehead, then fined five pounds  (British currency at the time, a lot of money).  When he couldn't pay, he was tossed into the Newbury jail, to sit there and rot until someone eventually paid his fine some years later. Whether or not he actually knew the coin was counterfeit, or had simply taken it innocently in trade, was never established  (nor, apparently even interesting to that court.  Hey, "the law is the law."). 

Eventually, he made his way to the Border of Vermont with Quebec, and settled on a piece of flat land right smack on that Border.  Today it is, appropriately enough, called "Beebe Plain."  The main road there is called Canusa Avenue  (For "Canada" and "USA," get it?) and you can walk twenty feet to the other side and be in another country, the actual Border runs right down the middle of the street, much to the chagrin of the ICE people. 

Punishments, to enforce the idea of "the law is the law," were fairly rough in those days.  Forehead branding was common enough, with "HT" for Horse Thief, and "R" for Robber.  Homosexuality  ["sodomy"]?  Horrors.   You were executed.  Hey, gotta enforce private morality somehow, so how about using Death?  Should work.  Mutilation was prevalent.  Rather makes the Taliban and their ideas of Sharia look rather mild, by comparison. 

If all you did was ignore the Sabbath, by for example not showing up for Church, well, there was always a day in the Stocks:

image.png.9ee529923e13dcb6babb8a4f6ec48575.png

Hey, at least they didn't brand you and cut off your ears for that one. 

You want to be very careful about harrumphing about "the Law is the Law."  Unpleasant people take over the reins of the Judiciary and then use it as an excuse for psychopathology, to inflict terrible harms on others.  Just lovely.

My sarcasm in the original quote is based on the hypocrisy of 'the law is the law'. Anyone that trots that out doesn't have any relatives that have been locked up for years over drunk driving, some kind of drug offense, or the application of 'justice' that is patently discriminatory. Once it's 'personal', then it's critically important to exercise discretion, have some idea of 'proportionality', be merciful, etc. 

Edited by Meredith Poor

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6 minutes ago, Meredith Poor said:

My sarcasm in the original quote is based on the hypocrisy of 'the law is the law'. Anyone that trots that out doesn't have any relatives that have been locked up for years over drunk driving, some kind of drug offense, or the application of 'justice' that is patently discriminatory. Once it's 'personal', then it's critically important to exercise discretion, have some idea of 'proportionality', be merciful, etc. 

Meredith, your sarcasm was totally lost in the print translation.  At least, it was lost on me!  Cheers.

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3 hours ago, Wastral said:

Then round them up, send them home, or become a US citizen.  No more black market(destroys a country and those in the black market eventually).  Oh, and build a wall. 

Why don’t you round up the business owners who use illegal labor to gain an unfair advantage over a competitor. With no jobs the illegal would evaporate and no wall needed.

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4 minutes ago, Boat said:

Why don’t you round up the business owners who use illegal labor to gain an unfair advantage over a competitor. With no jobs the illegal would evaporate and no wall needed.

Gladly.  Go for it.  Of course that is a simpleminded solution as the problem has been left on its own for 5 or more decades.  Not really possible at this point.  Why?  Who hires the illegals? Businesses in the names of the legal anchor baby whose illegal parents/cousins run the business(construction or ag "services").   Are they going to turn evidence on their parents, extended family, doctors, bank loan sharks?  Hell no.  Only solution at this point is find them, force them to be come citizens, pay taxes, or leave, and build the wall as it is now part of the culture that if your extended family wants in... just walk in and pay no taxes etc. 

As for individuals: When you see someone destitute with their hand out saying they will work, instead of demanding money like normal bums, when they knock on your door, do you ask if they are a citizen?  No. You give them work.  Now the mass employers?  Yup, throw the book at them.  We all know who they are.  Any construction site in concrete, roofing, framing, near 100% guarantee 50% are illegal or at minimum working on the black and they are all working through a "general contractor" who is a legal citizen who more than likely is their cousin who has been here longer. This is really no different than when the waves of Irish, Germans, Italians, Greeks came over and had crime syndicates form where they settled. 

PS: Far as I am concerned, becoming a citizen should be free(USA invites you).  Green card?  No.  H1B visa?  No.  Travel Visa?  Free

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14 minutes ago, Wastral said:

Gladly.  Go for it.  Of course that is a simpleminded solution as the problem has been left on its own for 5 or more decades.  Not really possible at this point.  Why?  Who hires the illegals? Businesses in the names of the legal anchor baby whose illegal parents/cousins run the business(construction or ag "services").   Are they going to turn evidence on their parents, extended family, doctors, bank loan sharks?  Hell no.  Only solution at this point is find them, force them to be come citizens, pay taxes, or leave, and build the wall as it is now part of the culture that if your extended family wants in... just walk in and pay no taxes etc. 

As for individuals: When you see someone destitute with their hand out saying they will work, instead of demanding money like normal bums, when they knock on your door, do you ask if they are a citizen?  No. You give them work.  Now the mass employers?  Yup, throw the book at them.  We all know who they are.  Any construction site in concrete, roofing, framing, near 100% guarantee 50% are illegal or at minimum working on the black and they are all working through a "general contractor" who is a legal citizen who more than likely is their cousin who has been here longer. This is really no different than when the waves of Irish, Germans, Italians, Greeks came over and had crime syndicates form where they settled. 

PS: Far as I am concerned, becoming a citizen should be free(USA invites you).  Green card?  No.  H1B visa?  No.  Travel Visa?  Free

Simply start with board members, CEO’s, plant managers and HR. I don’t think it would take to many arrests for the word to spread. No wall needed. Bring home those troops and retire most of ICE. 

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29 minutes ago, Boat said:

Simply start with board members, CEO’s, plant managers and HR. I don’t think it would take to many arrests for the word to spread. No wall needed. Bring home those troops and retire most of ICE. 

Uh, genius: Illegals are not being hired by corporations... I am sure a few rare ones are somewhere...

Want to find your illegal bosses hiring illegal workers?  Go to Home Desperate or SLowes parking lot and watch.  Or any construction site.  Or in Ag. Or handyman jobs on craigslist.  Not hard to find, and I do not see a big problem here.  They work unlike welfare bums whom I would cut off.  When the average people on "welfare" are so fat they can barely walk, have 2 cars, cable tv, internet, cell phones, and live in a big apartment or house.... sorry just no, you should not be on welfare.  Cut welfare 50% to fund the needed more agents to turn the illegals who actually come with families into citizens and to hunt down those on the black market and turn them into citizens or a one way ticket back home. 

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13 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

That is an interesting observation.  Meredith might be well advised to peruse and ponder the legal situation ("the law is the law - they should pay!")  that existed in Vermont back in 1794.  Just ask Seba Beebe; he was found with what turned out to be counterfeit Spanish coins.  That got him in serous trouble with the Authorities.  His instant punishment was to be sentenced to have his right ear cut off, then a glowing hot poker iron in the letter "C"  [for Counterfeiter] branded into his forehead, then fined five pounds  (British currency at the time, a lot of money).  When he couldn't pay, he was tossed into the Newbury jail, to sit there and rot until someone eventually paid his fine some years later. Whether or not he actually knew the coin was counterfeit, or had simply taken it innocently in trade, was never established  (nor, apparently even interesting to that court.  Hey, "the law is the law."). 

Eventually, he made his way to the Border of Vermont with Quebec, and settled on a piece of flat land right smack on that Border.  Today it is, appropriately enough, called "Beebe Plain."  The main road there is called Canusa Avenue  (For "Canada" and "USA," get it?) and you can walk twenty feet to the other side and be in another country, the actual Border runs right down the middle of the street, much to the chagrin of the ICE people. 

Punishments, to enforce the idea of "the law is the law," were fairly rough in those days.  Forehead branding was common enough, with "HT" for Horse Thief, and "R" for Robber.  Homosexuality  ["sodomy"]?  Horrors.   You were executed.  Hey, gotta enforce private morality somehow, so how about using Death?  Should work.  Mutilation was prevalent.  Rather makes the Taliban and their ideas of Sharia look rather mild, by comparison. 

If all you did was ignore the Sabbath, by for example not showing up for Church, well, there was always a day in the Stocks:

image.png.9ee529923e13dcb6babb8a4f6ec48575.png

Hey, at least they didn't brand you and cut off your ears for that one. 

You want to be very careful about harrumphing about "the Law is the Law."  Unpleasant people take over the reins of the Judiciary and then use it as an excuse for psychopathology, to inflict terrible harms on others.  Just lovely.

Jan, you are not making a real comparison. You are just picking an extreme cases of very harsh punishments to create a paper tiger and comparing that issue with enforcing America's borders. The only option is to be overrun by hordes from all around the world. The middle class pays the bill for the poor while the rich get richer off the stock profits from the companies that use the cheap labor. The poorer classes are hurt even more than the middle classes because they have to compete with an unlimited work force happy to work for subsistence wages until they can move up. I rose from a very humble background and I can relate. 

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8 hours ago, Wastral said:

Uh, genius: Illegals are not being hired by corporations... I am sure a few rare ones are somewhere...

Want to find your illegal bosses hiring illegal workers?  Go to Home Desperate or SLowes parking lot and watch.  Or any construction site.  Or in Ag. Or handyman jobs on craigslist.  Not hard to find, and I do not see a big problem here.  They work unlike welfare bums whom I would cut off.  When the average people on "welfare" are so fat they can barely walk, have 2 cars, cable tv, internet, cell phones, and live in a big apartment or house.... sorry just no, you should not be on welfare.  Cut welfare 50% to fund the needed more agents to turn the illegals who actually come with families into citizens and to hunt down those on the black market and turn them into citizens or a one way ticket back home. 

Or any janitorial subcontractor for Vol de Mart. 'Corporations' don't hire illegals, they contract this out to 'third parties'.

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56 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

Jan, you are not making a real comparison.

Ron, you are getting a bit off tangent (OK, so maybe I am!).   The point I was making is that when creating "policy" and then hiring people to implement it, you do have to be cautious in the selection process.  Throughout history, there is this sieve or sifting that goes on, and allows (or perhaps encourages) the pathological to take over.  When that happens, it gets very unpleasant for everybody. 

What happened in Vermont was pretty much a constant.  It was a brutal time. the Stocks were universal, at least in New England.  The punishments of disfigurement were assessed, especially to indentured servants.  what is not widely appreciated is that perhaps as much as 90% of the White labor force in New England and the Middle Atlantic States (including Virginia) were people literally kidnapped on the streets of Wales  (and London), then sentenced to "transportation" by a corrupt magistrate, who took a fee off the back end.  The victim was then sold to a corrupt shipowner, held in the hold in chains for two months until a full load was collected, then re-sold in the America Colonies to Masters who needed cheap labor.  You had to be this indentured servant for perhaps 11 years to be granted "freedom," which was the clothes on your back.  And if you talked back or objected at any point, your "contract" got extended for some more years, and you had no recourse.  IN many ways, being an indentured servant was worse than being a slave from Africa. And if you were a woman - forget it.  Your life was over.  You became your purchaser's personal prostitute. Don't submit?  You get beaten, maimed, branded, or killed. You had nothing to say.  Now, ask yourself, what does that remind you of?

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On 7/11/2019 at 9:02 PM, 50 shades of black said:

There is always a struggle between law and emotional, law and pure human rights ... I'm sure that no one did not come here because they had good life there ...

Just because your life in your home country is less than ideal does not give you the right to enter another country illegally. Furthermore, if you are claiming asylum, you do that in the first 'safe' country you arrive at. You can not pick and choose the country you want asylum in.

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