DayTrader

Hong Kong protesters appeal to Trump for support.

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58 minutes ago, Jakridge said:

If the country you currently reside in began tyrrannically squashing you and your countrymen, who would you call?

I would call Tyrrannically Rex.  But that's just me.

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I mean, that's probably better than this meme, which will never be seen in China because Pooh can't take a joke...  (I kept the typo in Tyrrannically because it makes the word even funnier.  Hey, I'm just making memes for fun, and I'm easily amused.)

3a5dwc.jpg.6b9d1b03dd86c1712c4224bafd736f1a.jpg

 

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9 hours ago, Tomasz said:

Let me be honest with you

The whole problem is that America cannot understand that Hong Kong is an internal matter of China and the Nord Stream is  project between Russia and Germany = both cases are really none of your bussiness.

A lot of people around the world including me are honestly fed up with the US which intervenes in the internal affairs of sovereign states like Syria, Russia or China. I

It's not your bussiness and take care of your problems, which you have a whole bunch.

Sorry  in no case you are not a model for the rest of the world - at least not in a situation of  military budget of over 700 billion dollars  bigger than next 7 countries combined and over 50 million people on food stamps, no free medical care, no labour code, .no paid leave,, the most prisoners per 100,000 inhabitants, american judgments that are peculiar to me as a lawyer. Universal access to weapons and many other things simply unimaginable for a European.

So before you start pushing into the internal affairs of other countries all over the world , take care of your own very serious problems before you start another great war in the Middle East with Iran with pretext like WMD in Iraq .

After World War II, you overthrew dozens of governments around the world, you bombed God knows how many countries  and the world is really slowly fed up with American domination as in the picture below

Its why people dont want democracy anymore and chinese offer is more lucrative for developing countries. It is what comes to my mind when we talk about american democracy mission.

84956af345b632bf37988be5454f7086.jpg

Russia invading Ukraine 

China bullying most of South East Asia

China trying to crush Hong Kong

 

These are not 'internal affairs'. None of them. (China is failing to live up to their contractual agreement with HK, who has agreed to integrate into China over a period of 50 years. It is not yet China any more than a fiancee is your wife, or Anadarko is Oxy. It might be imminent,  but theres still contractual responsibilities on both parties.)

 

We probably dont need to get involved in Venezuela... and I struggle with that one... on the one hand that one (to my current understanding) is fully internal. On the other,  it's a humanitarian crisis.

 

(Oh, and Nordstream 2 matters because of leverage on an 'ally'. The west doesnt want Russia to be able to hold Germany - and by extension the EU - hostage any more than Russia wants NATO in Eastern Europe. Now I honestly wish the US could just walk away and say 'you made your bed, now ly in it' but sadly, that would come back to bite us. We need to teach these countries to take care of themselves so we dont have to, but they're so used to us being the rescuer that they just believe everything will be ok. And it will, its game theory, we're better off to help than let them sink. Anyway, enough for my sleep deprived rant.)

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2 minutes ago, Otis11 said:

These are not 'internal affairs'. None of them

Look at the thread title. His anti US rant doesn't even make sense

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7 hours ago, DayTrader said:

Look at the thread title. His anti US rant doesn't even make sense

I realize... but I find it more impactful to calmly refute than to simply dismiss (even if off topic)

Otherwise those who are less informed and trying to lurk and learn might be swayed as they dont realize the gap.

War for the hearts and minds of the populace. 

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(edited)

5 minutes ago, Otis11 said:

more impactful to calmly refute

Well some I will dismiss. I have s**t to do  ;) 

 

9 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Hey, I'm just making memes for fun, and I'm easily amused.

Hahah would have been odd if you 'found' the T Rex one

Edited by DayTrader

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12 hours ago, DayTrader said:

Jakridge there are some here who say ''leave them to it'' and to whatever you say about USA in a positive sense they won't agree. This person went on a rant about how the USA should stay out of China's business blah blah and the TITLE of the thread is Hong Kong protesters appeal to Trump for support. 

This is the level we are dealing with. Think about that.

I also don't believe someone is a lawyer but cannot spell the word 'business' but hey. 

I’ve got no room to criticize spelling apparently. Of course the more I look at the miss spelled word the more it looks like tyranny squashing.

Could be some form of homophobia?

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(edited)

Once more Hong Kong is integral part of China and you are in a strategic geopolitical conflict with this country which is escalating with every day passing.

Dont you understand that for majority of people you make this conflict even worse which in my opinion will lead to bloody result because Chinese  goverment cant allow Hong Kong to continue revolution during economic war with USA.

Let me ask one simple question = what do you think majority of people in China or members of chinese goverment think about these protesters after such photos that you can find on so many websites.

People in Hong Kong had even a chance to watch US made movies for Netflix called Winter on Fire which is a propaganda movie and its clear for many people that the assumption was to convince participants that the revolution would have  a happy end. Of course, the situation in Ukraine is far from happy end  and now after Maidan its the poorest country in Europe and members from far-right organization  Right Sector played a major role in Maidan but you will not watch this in the film. 

I suppose they overwhelming majority of chinese people think they are traitors something like  5th columne and they cooperate closely with US  NGOs like National Endowment for Democracy to significantly  weaken China. So they should be punished really hard like traitors.

Sorry you cant change global perception of US as hegemon that is meddling in foreign elections, internal affairs, sponsoring coups and revolutions in  last 100 years and thats your legacy.

Its so easy to sell this kind narrative of US meddling in large part of the world like South America, Middle East, former USSR and now China because you do this all the time and people know about that from the past = you can even read articles in wikipedia..

Maybe you really dont know what people all over the world think about US hegemony so let me inform you.= PEW  global reasearch agency 2018

Quote

 

GUST 1, 2017
 

Globally, more people see U.S. power and influence as a major threat

FT_17.07.27_US_threat_median.pngConcerns about American power and influence have risen in countries around the world amid steep drops in U.S. favorability and confidence in the U.S. president.

Across 30 nations surveyed by Pew Research Center both in 2013 and this spring, a median of 38% now say U.S. power and influence poses a major threat to their country, up 13 percentage points from 2013.

Concerns about U.S. power as a threat are comparable to worries over Chinese and Russian power in much of the world. About three-in-ten around the globe name China or Russia as a major threat.

 

It’s worth noting that worries about all three countries trail concerns about other tested threats. People are much more likely to feel threatened by ISIS and climate change, in particular, but also by the condition of the global economy, cyberattacks, and refugees from countries like Iraq and Syria.

FT_17.08.01_threat.pngNevertheless, the proportion of the public that views American power as a major threat to their country grew in 21 of the 30 nations between 2013 and 2017. The largest increases occurred in Spain (42 percentage points), Chile (34 points), and Turkey and Ghana (28 points each).

Just in the past year, perceptions of the U.S. as a major threat have increased by at least 8 percentage points among several long-standing American allies, including Australia (13 points) and the UK (11 points). Concern about U.S. power is up 10 points in Canada, Germany and Sweden, and 8 points in France and the Netherlands.

In other countries, however, fewer people see the U.S. as a major threat compared with four years ago. In Poland and India, for example, the share of people who believe U.S. power is a large concern for their country decreased by 8 percentage points. And in Russia, the Philippines and Jordan, perceptions of American power as a major threat did not change between 2013 and 2017.

U.S. power and influence ranks as the top threat in only one country – Turkey (72%) – where it ranks 8 points higher than the second-greatest concern, refugee displacement from countries like Iraq and Syria. (Due to security concerns, the survey did not ask people in Turkey about the threat posed by ISIS.)

In Japan, people see China and the U.S. as almost equally threatening: 62% of Japanese respondents see the U.S. as a major threat while 64% say the same for China. On the other hand, fewer than one-in-five in Israel (17%) and Poland (15%) say American power is a major threat.

America’s neighbors, Mexico and Canada, both see the U.S. as more threatening than either China or Russia. In Mexico, a 61% majority perceives U.S. power as a major threat. And in Canada, 38% feel threatened by the U.S. This figure exceeds Canadians’ threat ratings of Russian and Chinese power (30% and 25%, respectively).

FT_17.07.27_US_threat_gender.pngConcerns about U.S. power and influence differ by demographic groups across a number of key U.S. allies. In Australia, for example, women are 20 percentage points more likely than men to feel American power is a major threat. Women are also considerably more likely to view the U.S. as a major concern in Canada (16 points), Japan (11 points), the UK (11 points) and France (10 points).

Those on the ideological left are also more likely than those on the right to see U.S. power and influence as a large concern. In the UK, for example, 52% of those on the left see American power as a major threat to their country. Just 29% of Brits on the right agree. The left-right gap is 22 percentage points in South Korea, 20 points in Canada, 18 points in Australia, 13 points in Greece, 11 points in Sweden and 8 points in the Netherlands.

 

 

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Edited by Tomasz
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(edited)

READ  THE  THREAD  TITLE

Your definition of 'meddling' is quite bizarre. Apparently not getting involved in any way in HK is meddling.

They are 'traitors'.  USA is evil.  China is great.   We get it.     Boring.

And if you think anyone is looking at that whole 'poll' which looks like something a 12 year old put together, you are mistaken.

56 minutes ago, Tomasz said:

People are much more likely to feel threatened by ISIS and climate change

I think this is my favourite bit though. So people are more likely to be threatened by something that is not a threat?? 

I have trading to do. I have no more time for your nonsense.

Cheers. You are free to disagree. 

 

On 9/9/2019 at 3:32 AM, Jan van Eck said:

the people go out into the streets and carry the American Flag.  Not just one American Flag.  Hundreds of American Flags.  And the reason is perfectly straight-forward: there is nobody else - literally nobody else - who is prepared to step up to the plate and help those people secure their liberty. 

12 hours ago, Otis11 said:

These are not 'internal affairs'. None of them. (China is failing to live up to their contractual agreement with HK, who has agreed to integrate into China over a period of 50 years.)

Read and absorb.

Edited by DayTrader
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On 9/10/2019 at 7:44 AM, DayTrader said:

Jakridge there are some here who say ''leave them to it'' and to whatever you say about USA in a positive sense they won't agree. This person went on a rant about how the USA should stay out of China's business blah blah and the TITLE of the thread is Hong Kong protesters appeal to Trump for support. 

This is the level we are dealing with. Think about that.

I also don't believe someone is a lawyer but cannot spell the word 'business' but hey. 

If I had to find just one most appropriate word to describe citizens of the United States

it would be definitely the word ARROGANT.

Look, even people that represent a really good knowledge about the world, intelligent etc. like for instance here Jan van Eck,

really believe that United States is benevolent, responsible world power.

EXCEPTIONAL world power.

User Tomasz just stated the obvious, in the last 20 years United States bombed back to the stone age at least 4 countries (but of course using bombs with democracy label on them, they kill you in some special unique better way) and destroyed many more through sanctions.

When exceptional American people hear that maybe they are not that exceptional, the s*it hits the fan.

Ad hominem attacks or you are dumb Trump supporter/you are dumb Democrats supporter attacks are most often.

Unfortunately as history of fantastic career of one, poor Austrian painter shows, EXCEPTIONALISM is just a one small step away from thinking you are better, SUPERIOR in comparison to other people or nations, that is again just one, small step away from FASCISM.

An the largest in the world military of United States is most of all ofensive weapons military, just for the democracy defence that will always come from the Land of Free

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(edited)

I'm English, so that's your theory out the window. From the first sentence of your rant, you were incorrect. Not a good start. 

For about the FIFTH time on this thread, I would invite you to look at the actual thread title.

HK asked the USA for help. USA have so far done nothing. It would be lovely if people could get off their anti US/UK high horse once in a while instead of just ranting what they don't like about our countries. It's getting rather boring. Seriously.

Maybe you should ask yourself WHY they are asking the USA and Trump for help?? I assume they are all just idiots but you are correct?

And if you're gonna quote @Jan van Eck , my choice of quote would be the ''who you gonna call?'' one.

Here is a clue for you. It ain't Ghostbusters. 

Cheers.      #BobbyFischer

I have trading to do. I have no time for further nonsense. 

Edited by DayTrader
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A few sentences about Hong Kong and the recent protests.

Hong Kong is a high income economy, with the third world, slum housing conditions. Actually inmates in jails of many EU countries live in better conditions than signifcant part of Hong Kong citizens, citizens with good jobs.

Hong Kong is a typical oligarchy where a small group of wealthy families control economy and politics.

New, massive, cheap housing building program  would erode some of the wealth of real estaet tycoons, so of course even as it is very, very needed in Hong Kong it was a no starter.

Add to the equation exploding since 1950s population of this  already very crowded country.

Important information that I do not know and could not found in mass media

(every news station is abuzz about Hong Kong but nowhere to find answers to a few simple questions):

- What was done to decrease cheap housing shortage in latest 40 years ?

- Could China impact/order the cheap housing project in Hong Kong since 1997 ? or

- It was out of its prerogatives in Hong Kong and would only start backlash againt Mainland meddling ?

- What are other main social problems of Hong Kongers ? (competition for jobs from migrants from Mainland ?, economic aftershocks of gradually losing its special position in China vs Guangdong metropolies/Shanghai and others ?)

- What else could be done ? (The City&Mainland built high speed rail connection and this brigde from Guangdong so it created opportunity to live in China and work in Hong Kong, but I do not know whether this has not increased influx of Mainland migrants)

Remember that wealthy and happy people do not protest even if living in authoritarian country/having no democracy. Only if basic living conditions are unbearable: no job, starving, living in slums, no healthcare, no education then people start to protest. Living in slums is a very good, existential reason to start rioting.

And here come current politics, US- China rivalry and Hong Kong as another pawn on the chessboard.

It is very easy to "help" desperate young people to start protests, coupled with some carrots (US visa&education) for leaders. There were many news relating to evidence of United States meddling in protests. It is natural for United States to use Hong Kong in the total war for hegemony with China, it would be dumb not to use it.

 

 

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(edited)

Thread title. Yawn. Trump bad. Xi good. Narrative clear.  Dictatorships are the best.

I have trading to do. This is boring. 

 

Edited by DayTrader
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2 hours ago, Marcin said:

If I had to find just one most appropriate word to describe citizens of the United States

it would be definitely the word ARROGANT.

If I had but one word to describe Americans  (hard to do, admittedly), it would be OPTIMISTIC.  America is the land of Optimism, a place where the people believe anything is possible, and even the unimaginable gets done every single day.  Don't believe it?  Look around:  all these examples of just one guy changing the face of the entire planet:  Elon Musk (Tesla), Steve Jobs (Apple) Mark Zuckenberg (Facebook), Warren Buffett  (Berkshire Hathaway, Coca Cola, BNSF railroad), Travis Kalanick (Uber), the list just goes on and on.  

If you want Arrogance, try Vladimir Putin, who invades and occupies countries whenever he feels like it  (try Soviet Georgia, try Ukraine, try Syria). 

2 hours ago, Marcin said:

Look, even people that represent a really good knowledge about the world, intelligent etc. like for instance here Jan van Eck,

really believe that United States is benevolent, responsible world power.

EXCEPTIONAL world power.

Well, looking at the world objectively, it is the Americans that are the responsible ones. They have been pushed, by default mostly, to take up the mantle of World Policeman.  That is a major responsibility. Benevolent?  The Americans do that and ask nothing in return. The Americans paid to rebuild Europe.  They took no land, conquered nothing, restored democracy.  And the Russians?  They gobbled up half of Europe.  The French?  They have this history of demanding "war reparations" from whomever they conquer, and pay for nothing.  The British?  They seize ships and even, if you go back far enough, impress foreign nationals they hijack on the high seas to be their grunt sailors - under pain of death.  

Are the Americans an exceptional world power?   You bet they are.  Try being a little more grateful. 

And P.S.:  I remind you that I am NOT an American.  I merely look at it objectively, without the hysteria.

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15 hours ago, DayTrader said:

[referring to Tomasz]       And if you think anyone is looking at that whole 'poll' which looks like something a 12 year old put together, you are mistaken.

That "poll" suggests that 59% of the Spanish feel "threatened" by the USA, up from 17% in 2013.  

So, the Spaniards now think the USA is going to send the Marines to storm the port of Santander and seize the ferry docks?   No?  OK, so the USA now has this shortage of olive oil and will drop paratroopers on the olive orchards and take truckloads of olives at gunpoint.   

Just how ridiculous is this going to get?  Nobody in America even thinks about Spain.  It is not on the radar over here.  Where do these utterly ridiculous ideas get started?  Oh, now I know:  "Russia Today." Just lovely.  Congratulations, attorney Tomasz.  You have come up with something brilliant.  You are promoted to the International Court in The Hague, there to represent Poland.  

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Nobody is pro-American until they need some help. The world cheered when Reagan said that we would not be the world’s policeman, but how many times since then have other countries called on America? You can’t have it both ways and this should not be confused with self imposed isolationism...the rest of the world said ‘leave us to our own devices’ so we did right up until 9/11.

I think most people/governments would like to assist with the issue in Hong Kong, but due to the special circumstances at play there and the other global issues demanding attention, getting involved with the chaos in Hong Kong would be a political minefield.

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September 10th, 2001:

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(edited)

2 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

drop paratroopers on the olive orchards and take truckloads of olives at gunpoint.   

My favourite was Ghana.

And yes, getting ridiculous. Thread about HK asking for help. We now are getting ''er, well these countries don't like the USA''. Er, ok.  Even had a guy saying ''well the HK people are traitors to China'' etc. 

You are free to disagree.

Edited by DayTrader

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5 hours ago, Marcin said:

It is natural for United States to use Hong Kong in the total war for hegemony with China, it would be dumb not to use it.

So now you are for the idea of it?  Please make your mind up. #Ghana

2 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

getting involved with the chaos in Hong Kong would be a political minefield.

No, you've been 'meddling'.

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5 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

That "poll" suggests that 59% of the Spanish feel "threatened" by the USA, up from 17% in 2013.  

So, the Spaniards now think the USA is going to send the Marines to storm the port of Santander and seize the ferry docks?   No?  OK, so the USA now has this shortage of olive oil and will drop paratroopers on the olive orchards and take truckloads of olives at gunpoint.   

Just how ridiculous is this going to get?  Nobody in America even thinks about Spain.  It is not on the radar over here.  Where do these utterly ridiculous ideas get started?  Oh, now I know:  "Russia Today." Just lovely.  Congratulations, attorney Tomasz.  You have come up with something brilliant.  You are promoted to the International Court in The Hague, there to represent Poland.  

Its PEW research - american agency. You should ask spaniards why they are afraid of USA. Maybe they remember Libya, massacre in Madrid rail station, fact that USA supported Franco regime or something else. You should ask them.

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Tomaz,

Again, no. Hong Kong is not integral to China. China has and continues to blatantly violate the agreement and Hong Kong's sovereignty. HK has no obligation to submit to their side of the deal if China blatantly refuses to uphold their side. Period.

The Chinese I know... support HK. Now, that may be skewed as they live is the US and Europe so have more access to free press. (Actually, not fully true... some do live in China also, but they have good access outside of China, so not the normal populace. But yes, they all support HK.)

Ha, I was skeptical of the linked article to begin with (lots of ways bias can influence outcome, and easy to manipulate and misrepresent surveys) - but after reading it I flat out don't  believe it at all. 70% of South Korea believes the US power is a threat to their country? I know a number of south koreans - both normal citizens, military, and politicians. Yeah, no. I don't believe that stat at all. The article is garbage. Sorry to be blunt.

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(edited)

25 minutes ago, Otis11 said:

The article is garbage. Sorry to be blunt.

DING. I should have just put this and saved my time. 

Edited by DayTrader

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(edited)

If you really dont know why  please just read wikipedia 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_interventions_by_the_United_States

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_imperialism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_lengths_of_United_States_participation_in_wars

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_armed_conflicts_involving_the_United_States

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monroe_Doctrine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationale_for_the_Iraq_War

and many more regime change operation and small military intervention because this list is not complete

Its your legacy and now you should know why people are affraid of USA

Maybe because they know history better than you.

How many times did you hear in school or MSM about Operation Gladio or Operation Condor for example?

Edited by Tomasz
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1 minute ago, Bartosz said:

Its PEW research - american agency. You should ask spaniards why they are afraid of USA. Maybe they remember Libya, massacre in Madrid rail station, fact that USA supported Franco regime or something else. You should ask them.

Why bother?  Nobody in the USA has any influence over how the Spaniards feel about America.  Look, if you go back far enough, OK the USA and Spain had a mini-war in 1898 over Cuba and the Philippines.  Today nobody in the USA even thinks about Spain, it is totally dormant.  The idea that America is going to drop bombs on Madrid is just as farcical as saying the US Air Force is going to bomb Ottawa.  "USA supported Franco regime?"  How?  The USA was an isolationist nation then. Unless you are referring to the Post-WWII time, when the threat inside Europe was from the Communists, and the Fascists were seen as the lesser of two evils. But let's not hang our hats on events of 75 years ago.  If you take that approach, then you would be worried about the French, because there is going to be another Napoleon arriving. 

The "fears" are just ridiculous.  Americans don't wish ill to the Europeans.  That is just totally absurd. 

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5 minutes ago, Tomasz said:

Its you legacy and you still dont know why people are affraid of USA

For readers unfamiliar, Tomasz is an ethnic Russian living in Poland and working as a lawyer.  Meanwhile, his Polish Government is begging the USA to place a US tank division, or at least a few regiments, inside Poland.  Seems the Polish Government is nervous about the Russians, and with good reason, seeing what has happened inside Ukraine next door.  

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And like most people here, he hates the USA until he needs them.

Let's all Wiki ''time spent in wars'' for every country, it will be super useful to the protesters in Hong Kong, I'm sure of it.

Spain can sleep easy tonight, their olives are safe.

 

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