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Some years ago, in a land far away, rose a leader who led his people, indeed his entire nation, to freedom from a foreign occupier, all without firing a single shot; entirely a non-violent modus. The people protested without any clubs or weapons of any sorts, wearing only their thongs and meagre garments. They marched up to the police lines and were beaten by the thousands. Yet none retreated, none ran away, all took their blows, all were injured and often seriously; but for every fallen one, more would step in stead. That leader was Ghandi, the people were of India, and the occupier was the UK.

Now, contrast the preceding to the violent riots we see in HK today; where the "protesters" are in fact violent rioters, and they run away like the cowards they are. I'm sorry, but I have no respect for cowards. I have even less respect for the cowardly people who write "articles" from their armchairs.

 

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So, you believe that India under British rule and Hong Kong under Chinese rule are equivalent situations?

Do you honestly believe that Communist China would ever respect passive resistance?

I believe that passive resistance in HK, at the level and duration which occurred in India, would have still resulted in a violent response by the authorities.

You do remember Tianamen Square don’t you?

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17 hours ago, frankfurter said:

I'm sorry, but I have no respect for cowards. I have even less respect for the cowardly people who write "articles" from their armchairs.

Very good observation. The 'rioters' as you say should all just take a beating and everyone lives happily ever after. Brilliant logic. If they take a beating for standing up for what they believe in, and they're listened to, then you respect them. That's essentially what you're saying. 

UK then and China now .... hmmm, yep... I can see how you came to that very easy comparison. You know it's 2019 yes? I just wanna clarify which world you live in...

Unreal.     * written from my armchair in a cowardly fashion. 

Edited by DayTrader
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The protesters in Hong Cong were passive by the millions for a long time and it seems by far the majority still are. The government “as governments typically do” tried to repress the protesters by threats and violence which was and is a huge mistake. 
You cannot repress the rights of the millions without expecting growing violence in return. It’s gonna get ugly if China continues its present course.

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15 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

So, you believe that India under British rule and Hong Kong under Chinese rule are equivalent situations?

Do you honestly believe that Communist China would ever respect passive resistance?

I believe that passive resistance in HK, at the level and duration which occurred in India, would have still resulted in a violent response by the authorities.

You do remember Tianamen Square don’t you?

So, you believe China would respect violent resistance? 

Yes, I recall Tiananmen. Were you there? 

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4 hours ago, DayTrader said:

Very good observation. The 'rioters' as you say should all just take a beating and everyone lives happily ever after. Brilliant logic. If they take a beating for standing up for what they believe in, and they're listened to, then you respect them. That's essentially what you're saying. 

UK then and China now .... hmmm, yep... I can see how you came to that very easy comparison. You know it's 2019 yes? I just wanna clarify which world you live in...

Unreal.     * written from my armchair in a cowardly fashion. 

Nice try to twist my words. 

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2 hours ago, Boat said:

The protesters in Hong Cong were passive by the millions for a long time and it seems by far the majority still are. The government “as governments typically do” tried to repress the protesters by threats and violence which was and is a huge mistake. 
You cannot repress the rights of the millions without expecting growing violence in return. It’s gonna get ugly if China continues its present course.

1/ True, the protests were held and continued peacefully for a long time. Then violence occurred. Who started the violence? 

2/ Repress Rights?  Please study the HK Basic Law and the Executive, and tell me which rights are lacking or repressed. 

3/ What course has China chosen, in your opinion?  

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(edited)

20 hours ago, frankfurter said:

Yet none retreated, none ran away, all took their blows, all were injured and often seriously; but for every fallen one, more would step in stead. That leader was Ghandi, the people were of India, and the occupier was the UK.

Now, contrast the preceding to the violent riots we see in HK today; where the "protesters" are in fact violent rioters, and they run away like the cowards they are.

Don't need to twist anything. You respect Ghandi and his followers as they took a beating but kept on coming. However you see the people in HK as cowards. Maybe the ones beaten in subways and tear gassed and shot at are heroes though?

The fact that you see the UK nearly 100 years ago as in the same league as HK in 2019 shows your utter nonsense. 

33 minutes ago, frankfurter said:

Then violence occurred. Who started the violence? 

 

Maybe ask yourself why, rather than defending hundreds of thousands of people having their rights threatened? Just an idea. You even admit the protests were peaceful for a long time. Where did that get them? Ignored?

Or you can harp on about what a guy did 100 years ago, a ''one of a kind'' guy in a completely different era of history. It's real valid. 

You seem to be another pro China defender and just want to make that case when China haven't even done anything yet. I agree they haven't. Sorry to burst your ''I want to get on my China high horse'' bubble. 

Also I love it when people say things like ''were you there?'' Believe it or not, here is a newsflash for you, you can know of events and people without being present. I wasn't around for WW1 or WW2, I haven't been to The Moon, or North Korea, or Iran, and I never met Confucius or Abraham Lincoln. 

 

Edited by DayTrader
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16 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

You do remember Tianamen Square don’t you?

He was there Doug. You weren't so 'nyah nyah', he has the moral high ground clearly. Duh.

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7 minutes ago, frankfurter said:

1/ True, the protests were held and continued peacefully for a long time. Then violence occurred. Who started the violence? 

2/ Repress Rights?  Please study the HK Basic Law and the Executive, and tell me which rights are lacking or repressed. 

3/ What course has China chosen, in your opinion?  

According to the media the police started using tear gas and rubber bullets to break up the demonstrations.

This mess started by China wanting extradition procedures against criminals. 
 

At first the protest was about extradition. Now that has morphed into replacing the government. China is used to authoritarian control. Applying that model to citizens who are used to a higher level of freedom is going horrible bad. I think China has lost Hong Cong by underestimating the desire of self rule. They should have let sleeping dogs sleep the saying goes.

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image.jpeg.78e5f02294032119d0f3041259c99420.jpeg

If I was Lam, I would have listened. Just saying...

Here are your initial ''rioters''/ cowards. 

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18 minutes ago, DayTrader said:

He was there Doug. You weren't so 'nyah nyah', he has the moral high ground clearly. Duh.

I was the guy with the briefcase in front of the tank! They’ve never been able to find me as they don’t realize that I was a gwielo (slang term for a white dude).

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20 hours ago, frankfurter said:

Some years ago, in a land far away, rose a leader who led his people, indeed his entire nation, to freedom from a foreign occupier, all without firing a single shot; entirely a non-violent modus. The people protested without any clubs or weapons of any sorts, wearing only their thongs and meagre garments. They marched up to the police lines and were beaten by the thousands. Yet none retreated, none ran away, all took their blows, all were injured and often seriously; but for every fallen one, more would step in stead. That leader was Ghandi, the people were of India, and the occupier was the UK.

Now, contrast the preceding to the violent riots we see in HK today; where the "protesters" are in fact violent rioters, and they run away like the cowards they are. I'm sorry, but I have no respect for cowards. I have even less respect for the cowardly people who write "articles" from their armchairs.

 

Frankfurter, I have a very strong feeling that these Hong Kongers are much braver than the average German citizen today. I have great respect for the right wing Germans who seek to save Germany from the Islamiic immigration that Merkel has promoted. I have no respect for those who are letting Germans become a people who are now living in fear of the Muslims allowed in. I feel the same about all of those in the European Union that choose Muslim immigration that is not wanted by the majority of the people. I find your judgement of Hong Kongers despicable.

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1 hour ago, frankfurter said:

So, you believe China would respect violent resistance? 

Yes, I recall Tiananmen. Were you there? 

Were you there? Do you realize what happened to all those brave people and millions more from Tibet and Xinyang? What happened to millions of people from the educated class when Mao took over? 

See China Stories https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Wb2YoQGpSWTz32ljsiA_ey6FLVqc2Dpe7Fnpiqn9lBs/edit

VHCRyA7M2iB2CctxeL5lzVjPmDHjb3_oLqnOikKhoW2pP6axqwv2FBb-yRdKq4nCa3dJd8xPkNc6YP-WWIO_BR_bFtZJeMSrUH7jhD2GLXX8FnBs2T1j1T1XST0Lus28DnAm8Os

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16 minutes ago, DayTrader said:

Don't need to twist anything. You respect Ghandi and his followers as they took a beating but kept on coming. However you see the people in HK as cowards. Maybe the ones beaten in subways and shot at are heroes though?

The fact that you see the UK nearly 100 years ago as in the same league as HK in 2019 shows your utter nonsense. 

Maybe ask yourself why, rather than defending hundreds of thousands of people having their rights threatened? Just an idea. You even admit the protests were peaceful for a long time. Where did that get them? Ignored?

Or you can harp on about what a guy did 100 years ago, a ''one of a kind'' guy in a completely different era of history. Other than that you have a point. 

You seem to be another pro China defender and just want to make that case when China haven't even done anything yet. I agree they haven't. Sorry to burst your ''I want to get on my China high horse'' bubble. 

Also I love it when people say things like ''were you there?'' Believe it or not, here is a newsflash for you, you can know of events and people without being present. I wasn't around for WW1 or WW2, I haven't been to The Moon, or North Korea, or Iran, and I never met Confucius or Abraham Lincoln. I have opinions on them all though. That ok?

 

Sure, everyone has an opinion and is so entitled. You express yours. Am I barred from expressing mine? 

If I am to be labelled a "supporter", then let me be known to be a supporter of fact, please. 

As you say, China has not responded to take control of HK, "yet". This yet implies you believe China will take action at some point. Well, "yet" is a conjecture, which we could argue ad infinitum. The fact is, China has not taken action. Observing this fact does not render me a supporter of China, per se. The fact is, HK has full jurisdiction over internal protests/riots, and is attempting to deal with them. Observing this fact does not render me a supporter of the HK government. I trust I am making my points clear.

-regards,

 

 

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59 minutes ago, frankfurter said:

1/ True, the protests were held and continued peacefully for a long time. Then violence occurred. Who started the violence? 

2/ Repress Rights?  Please study the HK Basic Law and the Executive, and tell me which rights are lacking or repressed. 

3/ What course has China chosen, in your opinion?  

The Hong Kong law regarding extradition was canceled. You should surely know that but are pretending you don't. 

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(edited)

4 minutes ago, frankfurter said:

Am I barred from expressing mine? 

Not at all, they are very clear, trust me. Cowards. Unreal. 

3 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

You should surely know that but are pretending you don't. 

Of course, the guy just wants to say China haven't done anything and I agree. Pointless. Just ignore the bigger picture, call them cowards compared to Ghandi, yawn...

Edited by DayTrader
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4 minutes ago, frankfurter said:

Sure, everyone has an opinion and is so entitled. You express yours. Am I barred from expressing mine? 

If I am to be labelled a "supporter", then let me be known to be a supporter of fact, please. 

As you say, China has not responded to take control of HK, "yet". This yet implies you believe China will take action at some point. Well, "yet" is a conjecture, which we could argue ad infinitum. The fact is, China has not taken action. Observing this fact does not render me a supporter of China, per se. The fact is, HK has full jurisdiction over internal protests/riots, and is attempting to deal with them. Observing this fact does not render me a supporter of the HK government. I trust I am making my points clear.

-regards,

 

 

Clear as mud, as is your motive. 

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5 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

The Hong Kong law regarding extradition was canceled. You should surely know that but are pretending you don't. 

Canceled after weeks of riots that were instigated by XI. 

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40 minutes ago, Boat said:

According to the media the police started using tear gas and rubber bullets to break up the demonstrations.

This mess started by China wanting extradition procedures against criminals. 
 

At first the protest was about extradition. Now that has morphed into replacing the government. China is used to authoritarian control. Applying that model to citizens who are used to a higher level of freedom is going horrible bad. I think China has lost Hong Cong by underestimating the desire of self rule. They should have let sleeping dogs sleep the saying goes.

"according to the media".  Since when is the media factual, balanced, and complete?  Have people forgotten the break, entry, vandalism of the Executive offices?  Did this occur before or after the tear gas? If you know people in HK on the ground, please enlighten us. 

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7 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

The Hong Kong law regarding extradition was canceled. You should surely know that but are pretending you don't. 

exactly. so which "right" is currently "repressed"? 

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44 minutes ago, DayTrader said:

image.jpeg.78e5f02294032119d0f3041259c99420.jpeg

If I was Lam, I would have listened. Just saying...

Here are your initial ''rioters''/ cowards. 

Agree on all points.  The "initial" protests were peaceful. Notice, none wear masks and none carry clubs. Lam should have responded quickly, instead of retreating into her shell. 

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(edited)

15 minutes ago, frankfurter said:

If you know people in HK on the ground, please enlighten us. 

Yes I do actually and the majority of police actions on protesters is NOT reported, unless from protesters' own footage. 

HK is 'attempting to deal with them'. Amazing. What's it been now? 4 months? They have 4 conditions they want actioned, then protests over. You would think a government would respond to 200,000 in the streets or whatever it initially was? They probably started carrying clubs around the same time the police carried batons and tear gas and rubber bullets? And the masks are probably to avoid future punishments IF China were to get involved. Luckily they have not, they are too busy showing off their military and asking people to praise China. This is not rocket science. Lam is a puppet. 

Edited by DayTrader
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45 minutes ago, DayTrader said:

Yes I do actually and the majority of police actions on protesters is NOT reported, unless from protesters' own footage. 

HK is 'attempting to deal with them'. Amazing. What's it been now? 4 months? They have 4 conditions they want actioned, then protests over. You would think a government would respond to 200,000 in the streets or whatever it initially was? They probably started carrying clubs around the same time the police carried batons and tear gas and rubber bullets? And the masks are probably to avoid future punishments IF China were to get involved. Luckily they have not, they are too busy showing off their military and asking people to praise China. This is not rocket science. Lam is a puppet. 

Great! We both have HK people with boots on the ground. But, have you been in HK during the riots?  NEWSFLASH:  I have. What I see with my own eyes, and what I hear from residents with my own ears, contradicts seriously the propaganda reported in the MSM. Shall we compare notes?  

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