China's Blueprint For Global Power

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

34 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

As there is no middle ground at the moment, he/she may just end up slitting their political throat.

I see politicians here seaching for some sort of middleground. Once we get past brexit we just might see a middleground emerge.

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

1 minute ago, Rob Plant said:

Never going to happen!

Too many politicians in the EU. You need clarity of leadership for this to happen, a la Trump!

let's see. At some point EU needs to swim or sink. I recon it will swim. Time will tell. It will be interesting comparing notes in 5 years if this forum still exists. 

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

3 minutes ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

Any American leader that did this would have the Europeans following. My hope is that EU in my lifetime grows the balls to take on this type of leadership. 

It shall not.  Europe now has utterly sclerotic leadership, the stagnation of its political parties flowing from a lethargic population with no oomph.  Even Eastern Europe, where there is some political dynamism, is wrapped up in xenophobia, and not tuned to dealing with serious problems.  And Russia, beset with internal contradictions and another likely internal political and social collapse, is going nowhere in the leadership department.  Do you seriously think that, say, the French are going to become the flag-bearers for innovative change?  They cannot even deal with the fallout of the collapse of their industrial past.  Ask their shipyard workers; ask their tire-plant workers.  France is a bust.  And so are the rest. 

Spain is a good example.  The place is desertifying at a stupendous rate, but that is in the middle, not on the Costa Brava.  So it gets ignored.  Spain is heading for a literally rocky future.  All rock, and sand, in the interior.  They do nothing.

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

5 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Good lord you’re stupid!

You are dealing with the handler of a Chinese bot, planted on this forum with the specific purpose of disrupting it.  Just keep your distance and try to ignore it,  As usual, the paid moderators do nothing, except carp at the quality membership. 

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

2 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

It shall not.  Europe now has utterly sclerotic leadership, the stagnation of its political parties flowing from a lethargic population with no oomph.  Even Eastern Europe, where there is some political dynamism, is wrapped up in xenophobia, and not tuned to dealing with serious problems.  And Russia, beset with internal contradictions and another likely internal political and social collapse, is going nowhere in the leadership department.  Do you seriously think that, say, the French are going to become the flag-bearers for innovative change?  They cannot even deal with the fallout of the collapse of their industrial past.  Ask their shipyard workers; ask their tire-plant workers.  France is a bust.  And so are the rest. 

Spain is a good example.  The place is desertifying at a stupendous rate, but that is in the middle, not on the Costa Brava.  So it gets ignored.  Spain is heading for a literally rocky future.  All rock, and sand, in the interior.  They do nothing.

Necessity is the mother of innovation. And necessity is being forced on Europe:

1) Less hiding behind US; Europe must deal with their own security. My guess is that max 15 years we have a real European army. 

2) economic migration is a real. Very real. The consensus here is that making Africa function is the only real remedy. 

The EU is like big ass VLCC. It takes forever to turn, but once it gathers speed it also takes forever to slow down.

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

11 minutes ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

I really think that genuine compassion for suffering people was part of it too. 

If there was any "genuine compassion" then there would be this erection of a gigantic Guillotine in the square at the Arc de Triomphe, with a European reward on the head of Assad, fifty million in gold, "Wanted, Outlaw, Dead or Alive."   Drag the bum there in chains and cut his head off, put it on a pike, let the tourists go gawk at it.  Solves that problem. 

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

2 hours ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

1) Less hiding behind US; Europe must deal with their own security. My guess is that max 15 years we have a real European army. 

No chance.  Never going to happen.  The mentality of the people is just not there.  Example:  When the Danes had a frigate assigned to anti-piracy patrol out in the Gulf of Aden, they were called in to apprehend Somali Pirates that were taking over some cargo ship.  The Danes arrived and arrested the pirates.  Now the European legal system then requires the govt of the registry of that boat to determine if they want the pirates in custody for trial for piracy.  The boat was, I forget, Greek?  The Greeks said, no way, cannot be bothered, just cut them loose.

So the Danes, instead of hanging the pirates as international outlaws the way that was dealt with four hundred years ago, released the pirates and put them back into the pirate ship.  Except now the engine would not run, and so, under the principle that no sailor shall be left to the mercies of the sea, the Danes sent their mechanics on board that pirate skiff to get it running - and then supplies the diesel fuel to keep it running!  I stand with mouth agape at this behavior.  You have these cutthroats that are boarding merchant ships with AK-47s ready to kill the entire crew and kidnap a ship on the high seas, and the Danish navy is cutting them loose and fixing their engine and handing them fuel?  Just how totally absurd can it get?  Yet, that is the mentality of the Europeans, specifically our "balls-less" Danish navy. 

And here is the staggering part:  those Danes actually think they are doing the right thing!  Unreal.  You people live in a fantasy-land of your own construction.  So, the idea that the Europeans, specifically the Danes, are ever going to get serious about their "security" is just ludicrous.

Edited November 11, 2019 by Jan van Eck
typing error

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

11 minutes ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

2) economic migration is a real. Very real. The consensus here is that making Africa function is the only real remedy. 

Europe is not going to do anything about any of that.  Europe cannot even deal with a stray cow that stumbles over the border from Romania into Hungary.  That cow did not have "papers" certifying that it was a "proper cow" so the EU wanted to destroy the cow instead of shooing it back over the Border to the hapless Romanian.  What kind of a ridiculous, sclerotic, bureaucratic society is it, that you guys run over there?  Just ludicrous. And that is the thing about European Bureaucrats; you make American Bureaucrats look really good. 

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

2 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

No chance.  Never going to happen.  The mentality of the people is just not there.  Example:  When the Danes had a frigate assigned to anti-piracy patrol out in the Gulf of Aden, they were called in to apprehend Somali Pirates that were taking over some cargo ship.  The Danes arrived and arrested the pirates.  Now the European legal system then requires the govt of the registry of that boat to determine if they want the pirates in custody for trial for piracy.  The boat was, I forget, Greek?  The Greeks said, no way, cannot be bothered, just cut them loose.

So the Danes, instead of hanging the pirates as international outlaws the way that was dealt with four hundred years ago, released the pirated and put them back into the pirate ship.  Except now the engine would not run, and so, under the principle that no sailor shall be left to the mercies of the sea, the Danes sent their mechanics on board that pirate skiff to get it running - and then supplies doe diesel fuel to keep it running!  I stand with mouth agape at this behavior.  You have these cutthroats that are boarding merchant ships with AK-47s ready to kill the entire crew and kidnap a ship on the high seas, and the Danish navy is cutting them loose and fixing their engine and handing them fuel?  Just how totally absurd can it get?  Yet, that is the mentality of the Europeans, specifically our "balls-less" Danish navy. 

And here is the staggering part:  those Danes actually think they are doing the right thing!  Unreal.  You people live in a fantasy-land of your own construction.  So, the idea that the Europeans, specifically the Danes, are ever going to get serious about their "security" is just ludicrous.

your analysis of the current situation is correct. But this is all pre-Trump. He is not to my taste but the good thing he has done is getting Europe to realize that we can't hide behind the US. Everyone is pre occupied with brexit at the moment, but to follow the security debate. Things are changing. Yes, Rome was not built in a day and neither will the EU army, but after brexit; wait and see. 

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

6 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

So, the idea that the Europeans, specifically the Danes, are ever going to get serious about their "security" is just ludicrous.

I have always embraced the idea of being a lover... 

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

7 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

"balls-less"

?

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

22 minutes ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

The EU is like big ass VLCC. It takes forever to turn, but once it gathers speed it also takes forever to slow down.

Europe is like a big-ass VLCC that is stuck in the mud at that mouth of the River Ems.  And the best they can do is hire Smit Salvage to try to figure out how to get the rotting hulk the hell out of there.  Probably cut it up into scrap in situ and sell the steel to China. 

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

2 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

Europe is like a big-ass VLCC that is stuck in the mud at that mouth of the River Ems.  And the best they can do is hire Smit Salvage to try to figure out how to get the rotting hulk the hell out of there.  Probably cut it up into scrap in situ and sell the steel to China. 

SMIT salvage are innovative as hell (I have worked with them on some projects). They will figure out how to save the VLCC. Just watch. 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

Just how is an European Military organization going to work? Are the unelected EU gurus going to make the community decision to send them to war or will the various heads of state have a say?  Who contributes how much money, personnel and equipment? If you volunteer more money can you reduce your personnel commitment?

I do not know how the rest of you see it, but I foresee a army that NEVER gets utilized at a massive cost. By the time the EU ever made the decision to deploy, after months or years of saying who has to provide what and then agreeing on rules of engagement which ensures that nobodies human rights are violate...their enemies will have died of old age!

 

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

54 minutes ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

your analysis of the current situation is correct. But this is all pre-Trump. He is not to my taste but the good thing he has done is getting Europe to realize that we can't hide behind the US. Everyone is pre occupied with brexit at the moment, but to follow the security debate. Things are changing. Yes, Rome was not built in a day and neither will the EU army, but after brexit; wait and see. 

Oh so its the UK's fault

Well at least that's a change from Trump

Does Brexit stop the whole of the EU "functioning"?

Thank God we are leaving this bureaurocratic nonsense behind!

Rasmus you are dreaming again🤣

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

19 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Just how is an European Military organization going to work? Are the unelected EU gurus going to make the community decision to send them to war or will the various heads of state have a say?  Who contributes how much money, personnel and equipment? If you volunteer more money can you reduce your personnel commitment?

I do not know how the rest of you see it, but I foresee a army that NEVER gets utilized at a massive cost. By the time the EU ever made the decision to deploy, after months or years of saying who has to provide what and then agreeing on rules of engagement which ensures that nobodies human rights are violate...their enemies will have died of old age!

 

Exactly Douglas

Couldnt organise a pi*s up in a brewery!

As usual they'd call on the UK + US to do their dirty work.

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

3 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Oh so its the UK's fault

never said that. I just stated that everyone is pre-occupied with Brexit. 

I wish the EU would grow some balls and throw the UK out. 

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

5 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Rasmus you are dreaming again🤣

I never stopped. 

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

26 minutes ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

never said that. I just stated that everyone is pre-occupied with Brexit. 

I wish the EU would grow some balls and throw the UK out. 

Please please please throw us out!!

I still dont see how Brexit stops the whole of the EU with dealing with other issues such as organizing an EU army?

The EU commission employs a staggering 32,000 people, to do what I have no clue. 

But as Jan says it aint ever gonna happen, in your lifetime or anyone else's.

Your dream may become a nightmare

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

3 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Your dream may become a nightmare

I hope we can compare notes down the road. 

I am a stalwart optimist. 

p.s. Notice how I defend the EU without attacking UK. 

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

1 minute ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

I hope we can compare notes down the road. 

I am a stalwart optimist. 

p.s. Notice how I defend the EU without attacking UK. 

Haha love it Rasmus!

The next few years are going to be very interesting, that's for sure.

I am also an optimist and I think the UK will be just fine in a couple of years post Brexit.

For the record I think Europe is an amazing part of the world with unique and diverse cultures, thats probably why I dont think the EU commission works as its massively influenced by France and Germany, but thats just my opinion. Maybe once you have got rid of us you'll be fine 🤣

[canadas canadas + 136]

I have always found it interesting that even though the communist party claims to represent all of the people, the fact is that not all of the people are allowed to be a member of the communist party.  This throws this equality out of the window since those who are members of the communist party have advantages over those who are not members of the party. This is a way of not democratizing things while claiming to equalize things. The next natural stop for China is Siberia. Lots of open territory land space and natural resources for an increasing population in the billions. "Lebensraum II"

Edited November 11, 2019 by canadas canadas

[remake it + 288]

9 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

While every other developed country must do it ‘now’.

The Chinese can orbit the moon, desire a space station, field a huge military....yet 500 million Chinese exist on $5.50 a day or less. Perhaps their priorities are misplaced.

That comment showed you do not understand the Paris Agreement, and appear to know even less about China.

[remake it + 288]

3 hours ago, canadas canadas said:

I have always found it interesting that even though the communist party claims to represent all of the people, the fact is that not all of the people are allowed to be a member of the communist party.  This throws this equality out of the window since those who are members of the communist party have advantages over those who are not members of the party. This is a way of not democratizing things while claiming to equalize things. The next natural stop for China is Siberia. Lots of open territory land space and natural resources for an increasing population in the billions. "Lebensraum II"

Governing Parties in democracies theoretically represent all the people as well, including those who are not members, and including those who are members of other Parties, so it seems a meaningless remark, while the rejoinder is a non sequitur.

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

5 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

I am also an optimist and I think the UK will be just fine in a couple of years post Brexit.

I think that both UK and EU will be better post brexit. Reason being that Brexit is taking attention away for all parties from issues that desperately need attention.