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The world has significantly changed since 2003 and 2011. US cannot have boots on the ground where it wants, not any longer, not legally. Any invasion in 2020s will cause united backlash of majority of global community. US would loose UN headquarters etc.

Latest 5 years were telling, Russia just grabbed land in Europe and is perfectly fine, in 2018-2019 US conducted tough Cold War against China and China is fine.

China still buys Iranian and Venezuelan oil.

Russia sells oil in EUR

 

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29 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Criticise Trump all you like but I think he has come out of this with a lot of credit, so far.

When you are involved in coronial inquiries you look at what caused an accident and if it is possible to eliminate it or mitigate it.  In this case a President enacted an extra judicial killing violating international laws and caused a tragic series of subsequent events and you wish to offer him praise.

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Iran does not want a war, Trump the same, not in 2020.

Agressive Iranian or Iraqi actions would not have backing of China nor Russia.

China plays a long game. Russia is relatively weak if on its own so can only act when vital interests are in danger like Crimea or Syria.

Everybody knows about Chinese long game, quiet game. They need 10 years, till 2030 they will play weak and peaceful, because they need peace to have economy stronger than US and technologically independent.

China says: US can have the whole Oceans to police, ours is only South Chinese Lake, it is our Mexico Bay and f**k of Americans. 
And last but not least ours is at the moment 60% of Eurasia, this gives certainty of future hegemony, BRI needs to built infrastructure.

So Iran and Iraq have still to endure 8-10 years of US empire, they waited for much longer already.

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(edited)

1 hour ago, remake it said:

enacted an extra judicial killing violating international laws and caused a tragic series of subsequent events

I think this should refer to Soleimani not Trump according to the correct sequence of events.

It was Iranians making the first aggressive move killing a US citizen for no apparent reason and it was Iranians that shot down a commercial airliner. This cant be levelled at Trump IMO.

I think Trump deserves credit for the situation not spiraling out of control as it has under previous US presidents.

It is clear as Marcin points out that he sincerely does NOT want war with Iran, and yes I believe that is to his credit, don't you?

Edited by Rob Plant
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9 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

I think Trump deserves credit for the situation not spiraling out of control as it has under previous US presidents.

Were it not for Trump this thread would have no traction and you still believe his hand are squeaky clean after violating international laws to get the situation to where it is.

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32 minutes ago, remake it said:

Were it not for Trump this thread would have no traction and you still believe his hand are squeaky clean after violating international laws to get the situation to where it is.

Lets leave it there as we will not agree on this

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On 1/12/2020 at 5:02 AM, Tom Kirkman said:

And a surprisingly thoughtful opinion piece from the New York Times:

Trump Has Made Us All Stupid

Donald Trump is impulse-driven, ignorant, narcissistic and intellectually dishonest. So you’d think that those of us in the anti-Trump camp would go out of our way to show we’re not like him — that we are judicious, informed, mature and reasonable.

But the events of the past week have shown that the anti-Trump echo chamber is becoming a mirror image of Trump himself — overwrought, uncalibrated and incapable of having an intelligent conversation about any complex policy problem.

For example, there’s a complex policy problem at the heart of this week’s Iran episode. Iran is not powerful because it has a strong economy or military. It is powerful because it sponsors militias across the Middle East, destabilizing regimes and spreading genocide and sectarian cleansing. Over the past few years those militias, orchestrated by Qassim Suleimani, have felt free to operate more in the open with greater destructive effect.

We’re not going to go in and destroy the militias. So how can we keep them in check so they don’t destabilize the region? That’s the hard problem — one that stymied past administrations.

In the Middle East, and wherever there are protracted conflicts, nations have a way to address this problem. They use violence as a form of communication. A nation trying to maintain order will assassinate a terrorism leader or destroy a terrorism facility. The attack says: “Hey, we know we’re in a long-term conflict, but let’s not let it get out of hand. That’s not in either of our interests.”

The attack is a way to seize control of the escalation process and set a boundary marker.

These sorts of operations have risks and rewards. A risk is that it won’t cease the escalation, just accelerate it. The radicals on the other side will get enraged and take to the streets. Their leaders will have to appease that rage. 

A reward is that maybe you do halt the escalation. The other side implicitly says: “Message received. We’ll do some face-saving things to appease the streets, but we don’t want this to get out of hand, either.” Another reward is that you’ve managed to eliminate an effective terrorist like Soleimani. Talent doesn’t grow on trees.

The decision to undertake this sort of operation is a matter of weighing risk and reward. And after the Soleimani killing, you saw American security professionals talk in the language of balancing risk and reward. Stanley McChrystal, a retired general, and Michael Mullen, a retired admiral, thought it was worth the risk. Susan Rice, a former national security adviser, thought it wasn’t.

But in the anti-Trump echo chamber, that’s not how most people were thinking. Led by Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, they avoided the hard, complex problem of how to set boundaries around militias. Instead, they pontificated on the easy question not actually on the table: Should we have a massive invasion of Iran?

A great cry went up from the echo chamber. We’re on the brink of war! Trump is leading us to more endless wars in the Middle East! We’re on the precipice of total chaos! This was not the calibrated language of risk and reward. It was fear-stoking apocalyptic language. By being so overwrought and exaggerated, the echo chamber drowned out any practical conversation about how to stabilize the Middle East so we could have another righteous chorus of “Donald Trump is a monster!”

This is Trump’s ultimate victory. Every argument on every topic is now all about him. Hating Trump together has become the ultimate bonding, attention-grabbing and profit-maximization mechanism for those of us in anti-Trump world. So you get a series of exaggerated fervors — the Mueller report! Impeachment! The Steele dossier! — that lead ultimately nowhere.

Most of this week’s argument about the Middle East wasn’t really about the Middle East. It was all narcissistically about ourselves! Democrats defend terrorists! Republicans are warmongers! Actual Iranians are just bit players in our imperialistic soap opera, the passive recipients of our greatness or perfidy.

The world is more complicated than this cartoon. Love him or hate him, Trump has used military force less than any other president since Jimmy Carter. When it comes to foreign policy, he is not like recent Republicans. He is, as my colleague Ross Douthat put it, a Jacksonian figure, wanting to get America out of foreign entanglements while lobbing a few long-distance attacks to ensure the crazy foreigners stick to killing one another and not us.  ...

For the TL;WR crowd a translation: 

We (the MSM) have been saying Trump is a moron forever now but he keeps outsmarting us. 

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9 minutes ago, Ward Smith said:

For the TL;WR crowd a translation: 

We (the MSM) have been saying Trump is a moron forever now but he keeps outsmarting us. 

Nobody in recent history has done more to destabilize the globe from economic and from militaristic perspectives and in doing so shows a masterful abuse of his power and influence matched only by a German chap back in the 1930s.

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20 minutes ago, remake it said:

Nobody in recent history has done more to destabilize the globe from economic and from militaristic perspectives and in doing so shows a masterful abuse of his power and influence matched only by a German chap back in the 1930s.

tl;dr translation from TDS:

Trump is literally Hitler.

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6 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

tl;dr translation from TDS:

Trump is literally Hitler.

Godwin Award goes to…

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(edited)

Trump's impeachment is adding to the chance his decisions will continue to be globally inflammatory.

Edited by remake it
At least Congress realizes they have a nutjob at the helm..
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10 minutes ago, remake it said:

Some perspective to this thread.

Iraq is America's failed economic experiment: Upon defeat Saddam's regime was replaced by the Coalition Provisional Authority and within a month 200 Iraqi state-owned businesses were privatized, corporate taxes reduced from 45% to 15%, the banking system was restructured and oil revenues were hived off to the Federal Reserve in New York under an account called the Development Fund of Iraq.

Some perspective on the bot.

In a thread titled Iran / USA the defective bot substitutes the country Iraq.

The bot handlers should take note, perhaps a reboot? Or frankly this thing has run its course, it's definitely not giving the illusion of intelligence anymore, if it ever could. Only when the humans step in does it have a chance. 

 

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As an alleged handler I have to defend my software baby. Iraq and Iran are so intertwined that discussing Iraq is on topic.

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13 minutes ago, Marcin2 said:

As an alleged handler I have to defend my software baby. Iraq and Iran are so intertwined that discussing Iraq is on topic.

#yuantobepaid

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On 1/11/2020 at 8:11 PM, Jan van Eck said:

Mr. Trump suffers from a medical condition since childhood that causes him to mix up words and letters.

I actually was not aware that Trump has dyslexia.  Although as a dyslexic myself, it seems fairly obvious now that he is dyslexic.

How dyslexia affects a child's work ethic and future success

People with Dyslexia have a brain the functions slightly differently. And very often, they have a right hemisphere that is very strong and while that makes it more difficult to read, that may also result in increased creativity and abilities to solve nonverbal sorts of problems.

In addition, people with Dyslexia often have to work really hard because they are compensating for the fact they cannot read as well. And so, that hard work ethic can often result in people being very successful. So you see people with Dyslexia who have been successful in many different areas.

So for example, science, Albert Einstein is a great example. In business, in entrepreneurs, Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Donald Trump have all been reportedly diagnosed with Dyslexia. And then in sports, a successful person is Magic Johnson. And then of course in entertainment, Jay Leno, Henry Winkler, Channing Tatum have all been diagnosed with Dyslexia.

 

===================================

Here is the example I usually give to non-dyslexics to kinda help explain a bit of what dyslexia can be like.  It's not the same as dyslexia, but imagine trying to read the colors all the time instead of reading the words, and you can generally get some of the frustration that dyslexic kids tend to have with reading.

Say the COLOR and not the word.  Say the colors out loud:

conflict.gif.e84445dc4c8fc033cc4f3ed7360a4937.gif

 

Not as easy as it looks, for many people.

Happily, I mostly overcame my dyslexia decades ago, although certain triggers in combination can cause my dyslexia to slam back hard with a vengence.  I have learned to avoid those triggers.

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1 hour ago, remake it said:

Nobody in recent history has done more to destabilize the globe from economic and from militaristic perspectives and in doing so shows a masterful abuse of his power and influence matched only by a German chap back in the 1930s.

You must be joking, but just in case you're not...

First off way too many people get compared to Hitler and that cheapens everything that Hitler and the Nazis did.

Trump is not Hitler and neither are any of the dozens of other world leaders that have been compared to Hitler over the years.

For Trump to be Hitler he would have to Anschluss Canada, invade Mexico and then exterminate six million Latinos.  He hasn't done that and he won't.  Trump is a clumsy speaker, boorish, narcissistic, and he will do or say anything to whip up his base, but he's not evil personified like some make him out to be.  He will make good moves and he will make bad moves as President, just like every President has done.

Has his handling of Iran been good or bad?  Depends if you believe Iran would have been a peaceful player in the middle east if the JCPOA was kept intact.  Depends if you believe JCPOA was a good thing or a sham.  So all we have is more polarization and no solutions.  

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(edited)

8 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

I actually was not aware that Trump has dyslexia.  Although as a dyslexic myself, it seems fairly obvious now that he is dyslexic.

How dyslexia affects a child's work ethic and future success

People with Dyslexia have a brain the functions slightly differently. And very often, they have a right hemisphere that is very strong and while that makes it more difficult to read, that may also result in increased creativity and abilities to solve nonverbal sorts of problems.

In addition, people with Dyslexia often have to work really hard because they are compensating for the fact they cannot read as well. And so, that hard work ethic can often result in people being very successful. So you see people with Dyslexia who have been successful in many different areas.

So for example, science, Albert Einstein is a great example. In business, in entrepreneurs, Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Donald Trump have all been reportedly diagnosed with Dyslexia. And then in sports, a successful person is Magic Johnson. And then of course in entertainment, Jay Leno, Henry Winkler, Channing Tatum have all been diagnosed with Dyslexia.

 

===================================

Here is the example I usually give to non-dyslexics to kinda help explain a bit of what dyslexia can be like.  It's not the same as dyslexia, but imagine trying to read the colors all the time instead of reading the words, and you can generally get some of the frustration that dyslexic kids tend to have with reading.

Say the COLOR and not the word.  Say the colors out loud:

conflict.gif.e84445dc4c8fc033cc4f3ed7360a4937.gif

 

Not as easy as it looks, for many people.

Happily, I mostly overcame my dyslexia decades ago, although certain triggers in combination can cause my dyslexia to slam back hard with a vengence.  I have learned to avoid those triggers.

I written before about potentially "performance enhancing mental illness" (not that I would accredit trump with that, just the illnesses).

The mania phase of bipolar is powerfully positive (heightened creatively and little need for sleep), but when the depression hits the juxtaposition makes people more likely to kill themselves hence the Lithium to stabilize things. We see this pattern of great works followed by long periods of unproductively (or suicide) often in the history of great artists.

ASD can also do weird things like make savants.

Synesthesia (seeing colours, sounds, tastes, etc.) is just weird.  "My favorite flavor is B minor."  WTF?

Edited by Enthalpic

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1 hour ago, Bullwinkle said:

You must be joking, but just in case you're not...

Trump is a narcissistic liar is isolationist is protectionist and makes no bones about returning America to it's massive military dominance and that's overlooking his other excellent personal qualities of sexism et cetera.

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21 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

I written before about potentially "performance enhancing mental illness" (not that I would accredit trump with that, just the illnesses).

The mania phase of bipolar is powerfully positive (heightened creatively and little need for sleep), but when the depression hits the juxtaposition makes people more likely to kill themselves hence the Lithium to stabilize things. We see this pattern of great works followed by long periods of unproductively (or suicide) often in the history of great artists.

ASD can also do weird things like make savants.

Synesthesia (seeing colours, sounds, tastes, etc.) is just weird.  "My favorite flavor is B minor."  WTF?

Synesthesia is also very useful for an audio critic.

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1 hour ago, 0R0 said:

Synesthesia is also very useful for an audio critic.

Very true as when President Trump speaks there is a very strong smell of a lie.

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On 1/10/2020 at 9:33 PM, 0R0 said:

He might have a merit immigration system in mind and his focus may be on illegal immigration, But his base and the de facto policy on the ground is xenophobic and restricts legal access. E.g. the agricultural workers who have been coming in for generations every season or the tourism workers who do the same. The number of permits has been cut. 

The racist and misogynist comments are not policy or the effects of policy. It is personal expression. It turned off his business advisory boards and they disbanded.  

As far as economic policies go, FDR did worse for the great depression and the following generations than anyone else. The concentration of power in union hands at the grass roots level and up, and takeover of education have had corrosive effects to this day.. The worst president ever. 

His base is Xenophobic? Huh, that's odd, because my in-laws are Hispanic, not born in the US, yet they're supporters. I'd hardly call them Xenophobic... My wife is Hispanic - born in the US, but 100% Hispanic - and she's a supporter.

Those permits were being used to strategically suppress the wages of the American people (bring in more labor supply willing to work for cheap, while demand stays constant, and prices - aka wages - fall. Limit that same supply, and wages rise - as we're seeing.)

And the advisory board members were being attacked in the media and their companies were being targeted. They didn't disband because Trump made a comment they found offensive.

(They also didn't actually disband - they just scrapped the publicly announced program and restructured privately to avoid all the negative attention the militant left was inciting.)

On 1/11/2020 at 7:52 AM, Marcin2 said:

This is an interesting problem.

Question is what is better for overall economy and development in US, cutting welfare programs or defence spending by the same amount, long-term 20 years perspective ?

It would be very difficult to calculate.

Defence spending has multiplying effects on domestic consumption, investment, research and development progress, and at the same time external effects of the increased global hard power. This gives you petrodollar, better "fat" deals for your companies given by foreign governments, many external effects.

Welfare programs on the other hand decrease inequalites in the society, and at some level of inequality like in South Africa it has significant harmful effect on economy. Better access to education, healthcare, lower crime rate. But reserach shows that standard deviation of life expectancy is higher in US due to economic reasons than in EU, but it is never the less too low (like 4 years between 15,000 USD earner and 200,000 USD earner) that is has no practical effect on economic activity. The same is with the crime rate, no significant impact on GDP even at US rates, 5 times the EU rates. Large % of inmates in US society is also not that bad for economy, it is only 0.7% of population and prisons are great business. Impact on education i do not know but tertiary education levels in US are very high so impact of 20% educationally impaired black and latino population may be not very high.

Difficult to tell and calculate, this is mainly democratic political choice in EU societies to have high redistribution levels.

 

Welfare programs have been a pretty resounding failure in the US. In there present form they actually perpetuate a cycle of poverty instead of alleviate it. Welfare programs could do as you suggest, Marcin, but as the policies currently stand, they don't.

I think we should trim many of the welfare programs and spend that money on schooling - provide 3 meals a day to every student, free of charge, free annual medical check-ups, and free optometrist appointments (and a pair of basic glasses). If kids see school as the place they get fed, taken care of, and taught... many 'trouble' kids would stop being troublesome and actually like school. (Plus make summer school optional and free - to provide the same benefits)

Suddenly, getting suspended from school means you get whatever your parents do to take care of you instead of 3 hot meals and someone who cares...

And we pay for that by trimming the wasteful social programs we currently have. Not increasing taxes.

I also hugely disagree with impact of Crime and Prisons. Yes prisons are businesses, but that's the broken window theory to economics. Breaking windows doesn't increase GDP, it just makes them spend that money on a new window instead of improvements. Every person in prison is a person not contributing to the economy... they are a leach using economic resources. (Broken window economics also applies to the military spending. Yes the military complex gives them a good job, but that money would have been spent anyway - just spent on a tank that may never fire instead of an improvement somewhere else in the economy)

/rant

On 1/11/2020 at 6:38 PM, Papillon said:

@remake it  https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/11/29/emmanuel-macrons-france-yellow-jackets-police-europe-year-of-cracking-heads/

Would you perhaps say this was another example of peaceful protests involving death sir? 

On 1/11/2020 at 6:34 PM, Papillon said:

I see sir. He seems correct then perhaps and these are examples of peaceful deaths I assume? 

I was merely joking and am a stickler for detail. Personally if I was writing something that I knew would be seen by millions of people I would make sure it was grammatically correct and actually made sense. Call me old fashioned. Mr Trump it would seem does not share my view in this. 

I am sure also that if Mr Obama, or Mrs Pelosi or Mr Biden had tweeted a comment like this it would be jumped on and laughed at in an instant. The 'one rule for us, one rule for you' dynamic appears to not apply just to this forum but to the whole nation, as if this were the other way round then Republicans would be making all sorts of amusing memes about the tweet no doubt? 

And you accuse others of 'whataboutism'?

Just saying. I see you call everyone else out for all sorts of things ('one rule for us, one rule for them', 'whataboutism', 'bias', 'hypocrisy', etc) when they don't immediately jump on something that you claim they would have jumped on if it were someone else. You're accusing people before they have a chance to react, and - from where I stand - you're more guilty of all these things than the people you're accusing.

If you want to poke fun at Trumps mistweets, go right ahead! But attacking others for not attacking him? No.

Just how it looks from the outside. Just FYI.

On 1/11/2020 at 7:28 PM, Tom Kirkman said:

I'll back off a bit now on this, as the mainstream media finally effing got its butt in gear and started reporting about these protests. 

As usual, the chans and Twitter were way ahead of the regular media curve on these protests.  Many Twitter accounts get shadowbanned, and the chan forums are not mainstream by any stretch of the imagination, but these protests ended up being too big for MSM to ignore.

Parachuting in guns and ammo would likely spur an even bigger crackdown by the government, and end up in a bloodbath.

This time, ordinary Iranian citizens may be so effing pissed off that they finally throw off the yoke of the crazy religious dictators.  Time will tell.

Any idea why no 'Journalist' in MSM (or even slightly less 'Mainstream') uses these sites to get ahead of the story - heck, some of these users do their whole job for them! Just do modest fact checking and publish. Are they (the journalists that work there) really that restricted on what they can publish?

On 1/12/2020 at 4:12 PM, Papillon said:

 

@Otis11  Will you grace this post with a comment along the lines of ''how can somebody make a joke about this?'' or is that only reserved for tragedies on American soil? 

Honestly, it would have, but I'm frankly sick of being targeted by you, so I'm intentionally refusing to play your game. Have fun with that.

On 1/12/2020 at 6:12 PM, Papillon said:

Why would I be upset with what he said sir? I am making the point that Twitter is not wisdom or indicative of much beyond children's views for the majority of the time.

If it is, then presumably you will soon be praising the numbers and popularity surrounding Mr Obama's tweets, as the comparisons are a hobby to some? Or perhaps a Korean boy band?

I am not sliding the topic if the topic is Twitter numbers and popularity at all sir. You are the one bringing up records with regard to 'Persian tweets', I am merely showing you some other 'records' that are about Mr Obama and so presumably we can praise them too? 

They're not being praised right now on this thread because they're not relevant to an IRAN/USA thread. Has nothing to do with Obama tweeting them, nor does it devalue Obama's tweets...

Trumps tweets are getting recognition and praise here because they 1) Relevant, and 2) historically noteworthy.

On 1/13/2020 at 1:11 AM, Rob Plant said:

Ok let’s step away from polarised positions for a moment.

do I think Trump is fantastic in everything he does or says? NO.

however with what has happened in Iran/Iraq I think he has done very well in the actions and subsequent comments following the missile attacks.

there has been no civilian casualties from any US actions. There has been no escalation where previous administrations would most likely have troops on the ground now. No US military have lost their lives. Iranian people are angry with their own administration for the accidental shooting down of a civilian plane.

Criticise Trump all you like but I think he has come out of this with a lot of credit, so far.

 

Calling out the hypocrisy myself now - why does this post by Rob get a Red Arrow @remake it

@Papillon- are you going to call @remake it out on his bias?

On 1/13/2020 at 1:32 AM, Marcin2 said:

The world has significantly changed since 2003 and 2011. US cannot have boots on the ground where it wants, not any longer, not legally. Any invasion in 2020s will cause united backlash of majority of global community. US would loose UN headquarters etc.

Latest 5 years were telling, Russia just grabbed land in Europe and is perfectly fine, in 2018-2019 US conducted tough Cold War against China and China is fine.

China still buys Iranian and Venezuelan oil.

Russia sells oil in EUR

 

So Russia can invade a European country, but the US gets condemned for current actions?

Got it.

On 1/13/2020 at 1:47 AM, remake it said:

When you are involved in coronial inquiries you look at what caused an accident and if it is possible to eliminate it or mitigate it.  In this case a President enacted an extra judicial killing violating international laws and caused a tragic series of subsequent events and you wish to offer him praise.

Debunked multiple time earlier in this thread. Try a new line of reasoning.

On 1/13/2020 at 2:50 AM, Rob Plant said:

I think this should refer to Soleimani not Trump according to the correct sequence of events.

It was Iranians making the first aggressive move killing a US citizen for no apparent reason and it was Iranians that shot down a commercial airliner. This cant be levelled at Trump IMO.

I think Trump deserves credit for the situation not spiraling out of control as it has under previous US presidents.

It is clear as Marcin points out that he sincerely does NOT want war with Iran, and yes I believe that is to his credit, don't you?

Again:

Calling out the hypocrisy myself now - why does this post by Rob get a Red Arrow @Remake it? 

@Papillon- are you going to call @remake it out on his bias? If you're going to police everyone else and call out their 'hypocrisy'.

On 1/13/2020 at 4:02 PM, Marcin2 said:

As an alleged handler I have to defend my software baby. Iraq and Iran are so intertwined that discussing Iraq is on topic.

After others have been attacked in this thread for the same thing? Yet you didn't defend them?

On 1/13/2020 at 5:28 PM, remake it said:

Trump is a narcissistic liar is isolationist is protectionist and makes no bones about returning America to it's massive military dominance and that's overlooking his other excellent personal qualities of sexism et cetera.

Completely ignoring the core of the argument that Trump is absolutely not equivalent to Hitler as you've suggested many times?

Btw - @Tom Kirkman Thank you for actually posting relevant info on this thread.

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(edited)

Why is Remake It giving a comment a red arrow 'hypocrisy' sir?  Ask him why he gave it. I am sure he will give his reasons. Looking at the thread, he replied immediately to Mr Plant along the lines of 'this thread would have no traction if not for Trump'. 

2 hours ago, Otis11 said:

I'm intentionally refusing to play your game. Have fun with that.

Stop asking me silly questions and quoting me then and I may believe you sir     /sarc  :) 

Edited by Papillon

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1 hour ago, Otis11 said:

Calling out the hypocrisy myself now - why does this post by Rob get a Red Arrow @Remake it? 

The reason was explained but maybe you could not understand it so would you like it repeated as it is wholly on-topic?

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2 hours ago, Otis11 said:

gain:

Calling out the hypocrisy myself now - why does this post by Rob get a Red Arrow @Remake it? 

Haha

i don’t think Remake It likes me very much, especially when I don’t criticise Trump.

i have said before there is extreme bias on both sides, when I ask the forum to step away from a polarised view I get a red arrow lol. It says more about Remake It’s intransigent approach to most topics and also others who give red arrows solely for another person’s opinion.

There appears to be a lot of double standards on here which is frankly pathetic.

OilPrice is an utterly ridiculous place a lot of the time!

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(edited)

4 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

There appears to be a lot of double standards on here which is frankly pathetic.

Here sir? Really? I had not noticed. 

Edited by Papillon
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