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Don't know how many of you caught This article about a Harvard professor caught taking money from the Chinese (and likely passing them info). 

Quote

U.S. officials have repeatedly warned that China's ambitious Thousand Talents program could put a wide range of U.S. scientific interests at risk.

"The worry is that China might be eroding America's technology advantage — not just by support for research, but also by theft of scientific ideas and corporate espionage," as NPR's Joe Palca reported in 2018.

John Demers, assistant attorney general for national security and head of the Justice Department's China Initiative, said in a statement that the charges against Lieber "illustrate the serious and persistent threat of China's efforts to steal intellectual property and research from our nation's universities."

 

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26 minutes ago, Ward Smith said:

Don't know how many of you caught This article about a Harvard professor caught taking money from the Chinese (and likely passing them info). 

 

Interesting.  His crime was making "false, fictitious and fraudulent statements."

They should have just lured the guy away from Harvard entirely with boat loads of money.  Nothing really illegal with luring away all the top scientists (and all the shit they know).  This guy got greedy.

China didn't get caught, a dirty American was.

Edited by Enthalpic
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2 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

Don't know how many of you caught This article about a Harvard professor caught taking money from the Chinese (and likely passing them info). 

Ward, I am so worried that US (I can say "we") are again shooting ourselves in a foot. This case will cause many adverse unintended consequences for US R&D.

I will just prove it below, on the basis of the linked article only (quotations from article in " " ):

"Charles Lieber, the chair of Harvard University's Department of Chemistry and Chemical Biology, has been arrested and criminally charged with making "false, fictitious and fraudulent statements" to the U.S. Defense Department about his ties to a Chinese government program to recruit foreign scientists and researchers."

Lieber was arrested and criminally charged because he hidden that he worked for Chinese while also working for Department of Defence.

- "Charles Lieber, the chair of Harvard University's Department of Chemistry and Chemical Biology, 60 years old"

Lieber was arrested today on Tuesday, 28 January 2020,

 - "An arrest warrant for Lieber was issued Monday. The U.S. Attorney's Office case against him initially was sealed after being filed in federal court; a court order lifted that seal Tuesday morning."

An arrest warrant for Lieber was issued on Monday, 27 January 2020, case against him was sealed and court order lifted this seal on Tuesday, 28 January 2020.

"The arrangement between Lieber and the Chinese institution spanned "significant" periods of time between at least 2012 and 2017, according to the affidavit. It says the deal called for Lieber to be paid up to $50,000 a month, in addition to $150,000 per year "for living and personal expenses."  

Lieber worked for the Chinese institution between 2012 and 2017.

Stopped working for Chinese 3 years ago.

"In interviews with Defense Department investigators in 2018 and 2019, Lieber said that while he had heard of the Thousand Talents Plan, he had never been asked to be part of it, according to the affidavit. Lieber's email correspondence suggests he signed a three-year agreement and employment contract with WUT in 2012."

Lieber was interrogated by investigators in 2018 and 2019 about this case. Back then he made confessions where he revealed all his contacts with Chinese scientific institutions.

So investigation against Lieber had the evidence, he himself provided already 2 years ago.

"The case against Lieber was one of three announced Tuesday by the U.S. Attorney's Office in Boston that officials say illustrate the threat of Chinese economic espionage."

So to illustrate US judiciary today made a show with 3 scientists playing lead roles.

 

Summary of facts:

Lieber was criminally charged yesterday and arrested today, for the crime he made at least 3 years ago or earlier (he hidden that worked for Chinese 2012-2017 while working for Department for Defense). Investigation against him is conducted since at least 2018, and already 2 years ago he was interrogated and gave details of his alleged crime.

Also 2 other cases were announced today.

Accidentally I believe it was also today that UK allowed Huawei to take part in 5G deployment.

 

Opinion:

Such politicizing of US judiciary for short-term public relation gains is very dangerous.

Politicians forget that all scientists and American scientists in particular are not d*mb and easy to manipulate sheep majority.

Sudden arrest of prominent scientist in an investigation dormant for 2 years is a very, very stupid move.

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(edited)

1 hour ago, Marcin2 said:

Ward, I am so worried that US (I can say "we") are again shooting ourselves in a foot. This case will cause many adverse unintended consequences for US R&D.

I will just prove it below, on the basis of the linked article only (quotations from article in " " 😞

"Charles Lieber, the chair of Harvard University's Department of Chemistry and Chemical Biology, has been arrested and criminally charged with making "false, fictitious and fraudulent statements" to the U.S. Defense Department about his ties to a Chinese government program to recruit foreign scientists and researchers."

Lieber was arrested and criminally charged because he hidden that he worked for Chinese while also working for Department of Defence.

- "Charles Lieber, the chair of Harvard University's Department of Chemistry and Chemical Biology, 60 years old"

Lieber was arrested today on Tuesday, 28 January 2020,

 - "An arrest warrant for Lieber was issued Monday. The U.S. Attorney's Office case against him initially was sealed after being filed in federal court; a court order lifted that seal Tuesday morning."

An arrest warrant for Lieber was issued on Monday, 27 January 2020, case against him was sealed and court order lifted this seal on Tuesday, 28 January 2020.

"The arrangement between Lieber and the Chinese institution spanned "significant" periods of time between at least 2012 and 2017, according to the affidavit. It says the deal called for Lieber to be paid up to $50,000 a month, in addition to $150,000 per year "for living and personal expenses."  

Lieber worked for the Chinese institution between 2012 and 2017.

Stopped working for Chinese 3 years ago.

"In interviews with Defense Department investigators in 2018 and 2019, Lieber said that while he had heard of the Thousand Talents Plan, he had never been asked to be part of it, according to the affidavit. Lieber's email correspondence suggests he signed a three-year agreement and employment contract with WUT in 2012."

Lieber was interrogated by investigators in 2018 and 2019 about this case. Back then he made confessions where he revealed all his contacts with Chinese scientific institutions.

So investigation against Lieber had the evidence, he himself provided already 2 years ago.

"The case against Lieber was one of three announced Tuesday by the U.S. Attorney's Office in Boston that officials say illustrate the threat of Chinese economic espionage."

So to illustrate US judiciary today made a show with 3 scientists playing lead roles.

 

Summary of facts:

Lieber was criminally charged yesterday and arrested today, for the crime he made at least 3 years ago or earlier (he hidden that worked for Chinese 2012-2017 while working for Department for Defense). Investigation against him is conducted since at least 2018, and already 2 years ago he was interrogated and gave details of his alleged crime.

Also 2 other cases were announced today.

Accidentally I believe it was also today that UK allowed Huawei to take part in 5G deployment.

 

Opinion:

Such politicizing of US judiciary for short-term public relation gains is very dangerous.

Politicians forget that all scientists and American scientists in particular are not d*mb and easy to manipulate sheep majority.

Sudden arrest of prominent scientist in an investigation dormant for 2 years is a very, very stupid move.

Short answer. Building a case takes years.

I'd prefer our jurisprudence worked faster in this country. It doesn't. I'd like my patent applications to be approved in six months. They take years. That's just the way it is. 

BTW you probably missed the rest of the article where the following occurred: 

"

Yanqing Ye, 29, who is currently in China, is charged with one count each of "visa fraud, making false statements, acting as an agent of a foreign government and conspiracy." She had been working at Boston University and is accused of lying about her position as a lieutenant in the Chinese military.

Zaosong Zheng, 30, was arrested last month at Boston's Logan International Airport and is charged with allegedly attempting to smuggle vials of biological materials and other research materials stolen from U.S labs. Zheng, who was a a Harvard-sponsored cancer researcher, has been indicted on that charge along with a count of making false statements."

Edited by Ward Smith
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(edited)

Simple: Kick all foreign born(non US citizen) Grad students out of all R&D at publicly funded universities.  If you want an education: Fine.  It will not be in R&D though. 

Edited by footeab@yahoo.com
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57 minutes ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Simple: Kick all foreign born Grad students out of all R&D at publicly funded universities.  If you want an education: Fine.  It will not be in R&D though. 

So funny.  USA would be crushed without foreign R&D talent.

However, I fully support this as I'm Canadian - we will gladly take the talent.

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1 hour ago, Ward Smith said:

Short answer. Building a case takes years.

 

It really does.  I quit working for the government almost two years ago and I've been notified that one of my files is still ongoing.

If I have to work it's going to suck making a claim against the crown for services rendered. I'm not a witness, I'm an expert witness; pay me...

 

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(edited)

2 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

Short answer. Building a case takes years.

I'd prefer our jurisprudence worked faster in this country. It doesn't. I'd like my patent applications to be approved in six months. They take years. That's just the way it is. 

BTW you probably missed the rest of 

Ward, your sarcasm here is so Well hidden I cannot sense it.

I am also glad that the most prominent criminal case that somehow can be tagged #china and #greedy professor wanted to take money from too many sources# could find its happy arrest day on the 28 January 2020 or on whatever day UK allowed Huawei in 5G. Had Boris Johnson postponed decision another 6 months Mr Greedy Lieber would still be free.

You probably do not understand how much Soviet in style it is.

Edited by Marcin2
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Ward, generally speaking, if US wants to show leadership and keep hegemony it needs to act to close technology gaps in the areas were China is ahead, not using sanctions.

China has 4 million FTE R&D domestic workers, Huawei alone about 100,000 around the world.

China employs thousands of foreign scientists and engineers in R&D centers around the world. They buy companies, and keep them going , very often, you cannot imagine how often just for know how, R&D workers. Why they are doing this if it is making losses ? Yep. But Later they scale up production by a factor of 500 in their Chinese manufacturing base and get rid of competition, globally.

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4 hours ago, Marcin2 said:

Ward, I am so worried that US (I can say "we") are again shooting ourselves in a foot. This case will cause many adverse unintended consequences for US R&D.

I will just prove it below, on the basis of the linked article only (quotations from article in " " 😞

"Charles Lieber, the chair of Harvard University's Department of Chemistry and Chemical Biology, has been arrested and criminally charged with making "false, fictitious and fraudulent statements" to the U.S. Defense Department about his ties to a Chinese government program to recruit foreign scientists and researchers."

Lieber was arrested and criminally charged because he hidden that he worked for Chinese while also working for Department of Defence.

- "Charles Lieber, the chair of Harvard University's Department of Chemistry and Chemical Biology, 60 years old"

Lieber was arrested today on Tuesday, 28 January 2020,

 - "An arrest warrant for Lieber was issued Monday. The U.S. Attorney's Office case against him initially was sealed after being filed in federal court; a court order lifted that seal Tuesday morning."

An arrest warrant for Lieber was issued on Monday, 27 January 2020, case against him was sealed and court order lifted this seal on Tuesday, 28 January 2020.

"The arrangement between Lieber and the Chinese institution spanned "significant" periods of time between at least 2012 and 2017, according to the affidavit. It says the deal called for Lieber to be paid up to $50,000 a month, in addition to $150,000 per year "for living and personal expenses."  

Lieber worked for the Chinese institution between 2012 and 2017.

Stopped working for Chinese 3 years ago.

"In interviews with Defense Department investigators in 2018 and 2019, Lieber said that while he had heard of the Thousand Talents Plan, he had never been asked to be part of it, according to the affidavit. Lieber's email correspondence suggests he signed a three-year agreement and employment contract with WUT in 2012."

Lieber was interrogated by investigators in 2018 and 2019 about this case. Back then he made confessions where he revealed all his contacts with Chinese scientific institutions.

So investigation against Lieber had the evidence, he himself provided already 2 years ago.

"The case against Lieber was one of three announced Tuesday by the U.S. Attorney's Office in Boston that officials say illustrate the threat of Chinese economic espionage."

So to illustrate US judiciary today made a show with 3 scientists playing lead roles.

 

Summary of facts:

Lieber was criminally charged yesterday and arrested today, for the crime he made at least 3 years ago or earlier (he hidden that worked for Chinese 2012-2017 while working for Department for Defense). Investigation against him is conducted since at least 2018, and already 2 years ago he was interrogated and gave details of his alleged crime.

Also 2 other cases were announced today.

Accidentally I believe it was also today that UK allowed Huawei to take part in 5G deployment.

 

Opinion:

Such politicizing of US judiciary for short-term public relation gains is very dangerous.

Politicians forget that all scientists and American scientists in particular are not d*mb and easy to manipulate sheep majority.

Sudden arrest of prominent scientist in an investigation dormant for 2 years is a very, very stupid move.

He should have been arrested long ago but the government may have wanted the bigger fish. 

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Thanks, Ward, I hadn't read the article.
It would be interesting to find out if the arrest was for the exchange of confidential information or for
"pushing the scientific boundaries in biology and medicine" that makes me shiver a little.
Is it a spy story or does China continue with its programs on cloning and various researches that drives science over the border?

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10 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

Don't know how many of you caught This article about a Harvard professor caught taking money from the Chinese (and likely passing them info). 

Related, but from Canada:

Did China Steal Coronavirus From Canada And Weaponize It?

Last year a mysterious shipment was caught smuggling Coronavirus from Canada. It was traced to Chinese agents working at a Canadian lab. Subsequent investigation by GreatGameIndia linked the agents to Chinese Biological Warfare Program from where the virus is suspected to have leaked causing the Wuhan Coronavirus outbreak.  ...

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5 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Related, but from Canada:

Did China Steal Coronavirus From Canada And Weaponize It?

Last year a mysterious shipment was caught smuggling Coronavirus from Canada. It was traced to Chinese agents working at a Canadian lab. Subsequent investigation by GreatGameIndia linked the agents to Chinese Biological Warfare Program from where the virus is suspected to have leaked causing the Wuhan Coronavirus outbreak.  ...

Chilling final quote from the article 

Quote

Chinese military’s interest in biology as an emerging domain of warfare is guided by strategists who talk about potential “genetic weapons” and the possibility of a “bloodless victory.”

 

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And then there's the unfortunate Resident Evil connection

Umbreall.jpg

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(edited)

15 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Related, but from Canada:

Did China Steal Coronavirus From Canada And Weaponize It?

Last year a mysterious shipment was caught smuggling Coronavirus from Canada. It was traced to Chinese agents working at a Canadian lab. Subsequent investigation by GreatGameIndia linked the agents to Chinese Biological Warfare Program from where the virus is suspected to have leaked causing the Wuhan Coronavirus outbreak.  ...

If you like conspiracy theories - which I know you do - perhaps a US spy caused the leak to damage their economy after the lost trade war.  If the US has the best spies, which I am sure you believe, then they had knowledge of this all along.

If you can't win clean - win dirty; the victors write the history. Use their stuff against them. #Win-Win #Illegal.

Not that I believe any of that... it's probably just evolution doing what it does.

Edited by Enthalpic

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“Not that I believe any of that... it's probably just evolution doing what it does.”

A pandemic is coming somewhere and it will be much worse than the Spanish Flu Epidenic circa 1918 due to the ease of travel.

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5 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

“Not that I believe any of that... it's probably just evolution doing what it does.”

A pandemic is coming somewhere and it will be much worse than the Spanish Flu Epidenic circa 1918 due to the ease of travel.

Nice thing about living in the prairies is that overseas flights don't land here (Vancouver or Toronto usually get hit, Toronto got hit bad with SARS). Plus lower population density makes transmission less likely.  When it is super cold and we are sick we just stay home.  We also have better job protection laws for people phoning in sick.

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14 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

“Not that I believe any of that... it's probably just evolution doing what it does.”

A pandemic is coming somewhere and it will be much worse than the Spanish Flu Epidenic circa 1918 due to the ease of travel.

All the train travel from WWI soldiers gave the Spanish flu a big leap also. The deaths were around 100 million but medicine was pretty weak then. They didn't give fluids with IV's, didn't intubate, etc. 

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On 1/28/2020 at 6:39 PM, Enthalpic said:

Interesting.  His crime was making "false, fictitious and fraudulent statements."

They should have just lured the guy away from Harvard entirely with boat loads of money.  Nothing really illegal with luring away all the top scientists (and all the shit they know).  This guy got greedy.

China didn't get caught, a dirty American was.

Come on!!

You couldn't possibly entertain the notion that this Harvard Prof did something illegal FOR a nation that constantly steals intellectual capital??

"Nothing "REALLY" illegal"   That reads "Something illegal" as does the indictment and arrest.

But to you the indictment and arrest is a PR move?

Haters gonna hate

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26 minutes ago, Bob D said:

Come on!!

You couldn't possibly entertain the notion that this Harvard Prof did something illegal FOR a nation that constantly steals intellectual capital??

"Nothing "REALLY" illegal"   That reads "Something illegal" as does the indictment and arrest.

But to you the indictment and arrest is a PR move?

Haters gonna hate

Oh I fully agree he did something illegal.

I'm saying there is nothing wrong with China offering money to a scientist to come work for them.

It's not China stealing, it's Americans stealing for personal profit! 

Many stolen cars end up overseas but I still put the blame on the domestic car thieves. 

 

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2 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

Oh I fully agree he did something illegal.

I'm saying there is nothing wrong with China offering money to a scientist to come work for them.

It's not China stealing, it's Americans stealing for personal profit! 

Many stolen cars end up overseas but I still put the blame on the domestic car thieves. 

You're not up on your tradecraft. Once China even offered the money, the "mark" was compromised. Once he accepted a dime, he was their slave. They don't even have to continue paying him, essentially they've got him on a blackmail string. 

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(edited)

4 minutes ago, Ward Smith said:

Once he accepted a dime, he was their slave. They don't even have to continue paying him, essentially they've got him on a blackmail string. 

I could believe that.

"Want us to tell Harvard?" 

Of course that guys whole ego / identity is tied to the fact he works at Harvard.

Edited by Enthalpic

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(edited)

  

”Many stolen cars end up overseas but I still put the blame on the domestic car thieves.”

By this rationale you would place the blame for the US drug problem on the drug smugglers/cartels instead of the end users providing the demand for the drugs.

Correct?

 

 

Edited by Douglas Buckland
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11 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

  

”Many stolen cars end up overseas but I still put the blame on the domestic car thieves.”

By this rationale you would place the blame for the US drug problem on the drug smugglers/cartels instead of the end users providing the demand for the drugs.

Correct?

 

 

I admit there has to be both sides for a transaction - putting all the blame on one side is foolish.

China is known to import all sorts of illegal shit (rhino horns, bear gall bladders, etc.) without other criminals they wouldn't get it.  However, import of a scientist is not illegal.

Corrupt north American tech company / university employees are no better than a poacher.

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