CCP holding back virus data . . . . . . Spanish Flu 1918 MUTATED, Came in 3 waves, Lasted 14 months and killed upward 5% World population

[frankfurter + 562]

28 minutes ago, 0R0 said:

China could always supply them, as could Russia, the sanctions don't cover medical equipment, they cover financing of them. Since China and Russia have no problem trading munitions for oil with Iran, they should have no problem trading medical supplies too. The current circumstance is entirely the result of Iran's preferences for arms and funding of Hezbollah and Syria. The sanctions have no effect on that. 

Please be aware what is pronounced by OFAC differs immensely from what is put into practice.  

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

2 hours ago, Wombat said:

I was joking Doug, didn't mean it literally, but a smiley face didn't seem appropriate either? Unfortunately, it is impossible to defeat the CCP without causing massive collateral damage. They are the ones trying to provoke a war with the West in case you forgot. I don't think the average Chinese person would give a damn about civilian Westerners in the event of a war either. We all become tribal when we have to?

Sad, but true.

At the end of the day, the Chinese, like the Venezuelans, need to figure out if they desire a change of government. If so, THEY need to make it happen.

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

1 hour ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Sad, but true.

At the end of the day, the Chinese, like the Venezuelans, need to figure out if they desire a change of government. If so, THEY need to make it happen.

The Chinese have absolutely NO desire to change their government or regime!

I don't understand why many in the West presume that they want this, they don't.

They have never been a democracy nor wish to be one, the West in fairness always presumes other countries want and need this when they have had autocratic/dictatorship rule for centuries. We in the West cant understand why they wouldn't want our freedoms, if you have never had them in the first place then you don't appreciate what you have never known. Hong Kong has had them under British rule and that is partly why we see their people rebelling against the CCP as they long for those freedoms they once had.

We have tried and largely failed with many military enforced regime changes in other countries so the track record is poor at best.

[frankfurter + 562]

5 hours ago, Wombat said:

I was joking Doug, didn't mean it literally, but a smiley face didn't seem appropriate either? Unfortunately, it is impossible to defeat the CCP without causing massive collateral damage. They are the ones trying to provoke a war with the West in case you forgot. I don't think the average Chinese person would give a damn about civilian Westerners in the event of a war either. We all become tribal when we have to?

Do you ever think about what you write?  In a war, you expect the sides to care about each other?  duh.  

[frankfurter + 562]

28 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

The Chinese have absolutely NO desire to change their government or regime!

I don't understand why many in the West presume that they want this, they don't.

They have never been a democracy nor wish to be one, the West in fairness always presumes other countries want and need this when they have had autocratic/dictatorship rule for centuries. We in the West cant understand why they wouldn't want our freedoms, if you have never had them in the first place then you don't appreciate what you have never known. Hong Kong has had them under British rule and that is partly why we see their people rebelling against the CCP as they long for those freedoms they once had.

We have tried and largely failed with many military enforced regime changes in other countries so the track record is poor at best.

You are correct: the Chinese do not want to change their government.  They know all too well the lessons of their history and world history.  They are resolved to allow their country to evolve over a very long term.  What they want is freedom from the West's interference, threats and self-righteousness. 

For HongKong, your assertion is not entirely correct.  HK was under UK colonial rule: at no time did HK citizens have the right to universal suffrage. They had no democracy: their government and leaders were decided by a foreign power.  HK was essentially an apartheid state.  The Basic Law of HK ensures whatever rights HK citizens had under UK rule are preserved under the SAR. The courts apply UK laws. HK citizens have their own HK passports, freedom of speech, freedom of association, freedom of religion, freedom of movement, all the freedoms Westerners have. 

The issue for the Chinese is not about democracy, capitalism, autocracy, communism, whatever -acy or -ism you choose.  The issue is a fair and just society, and freedom for self-determination and to evolve.  No government is perfect. No society is perfect.  Governments rule because citizens consent.  The Chinese consent to what they have now: it works for them and has given them great benefits over the past 30 years.  The CCP today is far far different from the Mao era. There is no comparison, and it will continue to evolve. Will it last forever? I cannot say. What lasts forever?  The Chinese people may last forever.  

If the Chinese ever decide to change their government, they will effect this for and by themselves. 

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

38 minutes ago, frankfurter said:

You are correct: the Chinese do not want to change their government.  They know all too well the lessons of their history and world history.  They are resolved to allow their country to evolve over a very long term.  What they want is freedom from the West's interference, threats and self-righteousness. 

For HongKong, your assertion is not entirely correct.  HK was under UK colonial rule: at no time did HK citizens have the right to universal suffrage. They had no democracy: their government and leaders were decided by a foreign power.  HK was essentially an apartheid state.  The Basic Law of HK ensures whatever rights HK citizens had under UK rule are preserved under the SAR. The courts apply UK laws. HK citizens have their own HK passports, freedom of speech, freedom of association, freedom of religion, freedom of movement, all the freedoms Westerners have. 

The issue for the Chinese is not about democracy, capitalism, autocracy, communism, whatever -acy or -ism you choose.  The issue is a fair and just society, and freedom for self-determination and to evolve.  No government is perfect. No society is perfect.  Governments rule because citizens consent.  The Chinese consent to what they have now: it works for them and has given them great benefits over the past 30 years.  The CCP today is far far different from the Mao era. There is no comparison, and it will continue to evolve. Will it last forever? I cannot say. What lasts forever?  The Chinese people may last forever.  

If the Chinese ever decide to change their government, they will effect this for and by themselves. 

Yes regarding Hong Kong I was just using it as a general example, but you are correct in what you say.

I think you'll agree there is a stark contrast between what the people of Hong Kong consider freedom and what the rest of China do.

Edited March 3, 2020 by Rob Plant

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

3 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

The Chinese have absolutely NO desire to change their government or regime!

I don't understand why many in the West presume that they want this, they don't.

They have never been a democracy nor wish to be one, the West in fairness always presumes other countries want and need this when they have had autocratic/dictatorship rule for centuries. We in the West cant understand why they wouldn't want our freedoms, if you have never had them in the first place then you don't appreciate what you have never known. Hong Kong has had them under British rule and that is partly why we see their people rebelling against the CCP as they long for those freedoms they once had.

We have tried and largely failed with many military enforced regime changes in other countries so the track record is poor at best.

True, but when your government is perceived by many to have either caused a epidemic in your country which has killed thousands so far and have been draconian and lacking transparency in dealing with it....they may want change.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

I'll just leave this here.

China assumes presidency of UN Security Council for March

China attaches great importance to the work during its presidency and will act responsibly and constructively, China's permanent representative to the UN said.

UNITED NATIONS, March 2 (Xinhua) -- China has taken over as president of the UN Security Council for the month of March 2020, pledging to promote solidarity and cooperation in this capacity.

In a note to the press on Monday, Zhang Jun, China's permanent representative to the UN, said China attaches great importance to the work during its presidency and will act responsibly and constructively.

"China will make effort to strengthen solidarity and cooperation with all parties to ensure that the council fulfills its responsibility and plays a constructive role in maintaining international peace and security," said Zhang.  ...

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

8 hours ago, 0R0 said:

China could always supply them, as could Russia, the sanctions don't cover medical equipment, they cover financing of them. Since China and Russia have no problem trading munitions for oil with Iran, they should have no problem trading medical supplies too. The current circumstance is entirely the result of Iran's preferences for arms and funding of Hezbollah and Syria. The sanctions have no effect on that. 

I thought the Chinese kept claiming that they were technologically superior to the West....why aren’t they producing their own, superior medical technology?

[James Regan + 1,776]

I was in the chemists today and I asked one of the assistants, What gets rid of coronavirus?
She said, Ammonia cleaner.
I said, Oh sorry, I thought you worked here!

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

2 minutes ago, James Regan said:

What gets rid of coronavirus?

Ketogenic diet helps tame flu virus

Date:

November 15, 2019

Source:

Yale University

Summary:

A high-fat, low-carbohydrate diet like the Keto regimen has its fans, but influenza apparently isn't one of them. Mice fed a ketogenic diet were better able to combat the flu virus than mice fed food high in carbohydrates, according to a new study.

 

Mice fed a ketogenic diet were better able to combat the flu virus than mice fed food high in carbohydrates, according to a new Yale University study published Nov. 15 in the journal Science Immunology.

The ketogenic diet -- which for people includes meat, fish, poultry, and non-starchy vegetables -- activates a subset of T cells in the lungs not previously associated with the immune system's response to influenza, enhancing mucus production from airway cells that can effectively trap the virus, the researchers report.

"This was a totally unexpected finding," said co-senior author Akiko Iwasaki, the Waldemar Von Zedtwitz Professor of Immunobiology and Molecular, Cellular and Developmental Biology, and an investigator of the Howard Hughes Medical Institute.

The research project was the brainchild of two trainees -- one working in Iwasaki's lab and the other with co-senior author Visha Deep Dixit, the Waldemar Von Zedtwitz Professor of Comparative Medicine and of Immunobiology. Ryan Molony worked in Iwasaki's lab, which had found that immune system activators called inflammasomes can cause harmful immune system responses in their host. Emily Goldberg worked in Dixit's lab, which had shown that the ketogenic diet blocked formation of inflammasomes.

The two wondered if diet could affect immune system response to pathogens such as the flu virus.

They showed that mice fed a ketogenic diet and infected with the influenza virus had a higher survival rate than mice on a high-carb normal diet. Specifically, the researchers found that the ketogenic diet triggered the release of gamma delta T cells, immune system cells that produce mucus in the cell linings of the lung -- while the high-carbohydrate diet did not.

When mice were bred without the gene that codes for gamma delta T cells, the ketogenic diet provided no protection against the influenza virus.

"This study shows that the way the body burns fat to produce ketone bodies from the food we eat can fuel the immune system to fight flu infection," Dixit said.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

12 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Iran’s minister of health: tomorrow 300,000 people with
equipped gear will come to every house and we will
eradicate corona.

Update from Iran's Fars News Agency:

Iranian Health Ministry Preparing 300,000 Teams for House-to-House Checks against Coronavirus

TEHRAN (FNA)- Iranian Health Minister Saeed Namaki announced plans for house-to-house search for suspicious coronavirus cases, using 300,000 specialized teams.
“As one of the pioneering East Mediterranean states and for the first time in the world, we will prevent coronavirus pandemic instead of waiting. Implementation of this plan will start on Tuesday with 300,000 treatment and hygiene teams,” Namaki said on Sunday night.

He added that the number of recovered coronavirus patients is increasing in Iran every day.

“We will go house by house to diagnose suspicious cases as soon as possible and if any suspicious case is diagnosed, the person will be sent to the treatment centers,” Namaki said.

The number of people infected with coronavirus in Iran increased to 978, Iranian Health Ministry Spokesman Kianoush Jahanpour said on Sunday, adding that 54 patients have died so far.

He added that 175 coronavirus patients have been cured and discharged from hospitals across the country.

Reports from different cities and towns of Iran indicate strenuous efforts by the officials to help the coronavirus patients and prevent an epidemic.

According to the latest reports, the novel coronavirus has killed over 3,000 people worldwide, the vast majority in mainland China. There have been more than 88,000 global cases, with infections on every continent except Antarctica.  ...

 

... The Iranian Health Ministry officials, who were also present at the meeting, reaffirmed Iran’s commitment to the international health regulations and standards.

Iran enjoys all the technical and specialized capabilities needed to battle the coronavirus, they stressed.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

26 minutes ago, James Regan said:

I was in the chemists today and I asked one of the assistants, What gets rid of coronavirus?
She said, Ammonia cleaner.
I said, Oh sorry, I thought you worked here!

Well, it all depends on if it is taken orally or anally. 
The first would likely kill you and the second would likely make you wish you were dead! 
 

Virus would not be your main concern in either case...😂

[James Regan + 1,776]

2 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Well, it all depends on if it is taken orally or anally. 
The first would likely kill you and the second would likely make you wish you were dead! 
 

Virus would not be your main concern in either case...😂

I went into a Swedish chemist and asked for deodorant, she replied in a strong accent “ball” or “aerosol” I replied “neither ‘it’s for me armpits”

 

[Marcin2 + 725]

On 3/1/2020 at 9:28 AM, Tom Kirkman said:

 

 

 

tl;dr  CCP good and just, USA evil and stupid

Frankfurter, you will likely have an uphill battle pushing that ^ narrative on this forum, as I suspect many members here are less than impressed with the very much totatitarian CCP. 

By all means you are free to push your pro-China / anti-USA agenda, nobody is stopping you here.

As a moderator I have advised repeatedly that commenting with a bit of honey and humor generally elicits a better response from others, rather than posting with vinegar and bile.

Honestly, I don't know where you live, your IP addresses hop all over the world.  Why you apparently feel the need to comment here using an internet proxy is beyond me.  As far as I know, nobody will get in trouble with any governments anywhete in the world, for openly posting on this international forum. 

Anyway, you are free to express your viewpoints on this forum, and others are just as free to express their viewpoints on this forum as well.

In China however, not so much.

If you wish to go on a rant against Americans, knock yourself out.  But please don't complain later if others don't agree with you.

 

I do not know why @frankfurter is here, at this forum.

This forum is by Americans (only?) and for Americans (only?).

The views presented here are very biased, the reason is most commenters take the uniform US propaganda as the gospel.

Americans are so similar to Chinese in so many respects, as a European I find it simply annoying and frustrating.

The polarization of opinions is astonishing.

70% of recent posts (and this is good) is a discussion about oil, other commodities, investment etc. I really like it.

30% of posts is just bashing, mainly China bashing, but also EU bashing.

I do not know why there is so much hate in you about China, apart from them being real competition and threat by simple existence.

A lot of people say here that they do not bash Chinese oppressed nation, but only CCP.

The problem is that CCP is the game to play in China, if you want to be succesful. And CCP (90million members) + immediate families is how much ? 10-20% of society ? I do not know. Extended families ? Half of society ?

You may find it disgusting but in autocratic/totalitarian countries you have to adapt.

So your hate of CCP = the hate of Chinese society cause it is so embedded in the society.

The recent problem, and major problem of COVID-19 is that its major victims are civil liberties. Loss of human life and economic value is important. But this was the unique occasion to show that totalitarian surveillance present in virtually all countries (the best are as expected China and US, the most money they can pump into it).

Cause COVID-19 HYPE causes FEAR and FEAR is the best instrument to CONTROL population, both in US and China.

Of course they are not the same, US civil liberties are much wider, but at the end of the day it is very similar: DemoRepublicans or CCP FOREVER. I pity Chinese and Americans for this. And I am afraid cause these are the 2 strongers countries, by big margin, and thus they setting tone in crackdown on livil liberties and democracy.

Edited March 3, 2020 by Marcin2
typo

[wrs + 893]

5 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Update from Iran's Fars News Agency:

Iranian Health Ministry Preparing 300,000 Teams for House-to-House Checks against Coronavirus

TEHRAN (FNA)- Iranian Health Minister Saeed Namaki announced plans for house-to-house search for suspicious coronavirus cases, using 300,000 specialized teams.
“As one of the pioneering East Mediterranean states and for the first time in the world, we will prevent coronavirus pandemic instead of waiting. Implementation of this plan will start on Tuesday with 300,000 treatment and hygiene teams,” Namaki said on Sunday night.

He added that the number of recovered coronavirus patients is increasing in Iran every day.

“We will go house by house to diagnose suspicious cases as soon as possible and if any suspicious case is diagnosed, the person will be sent to the treatment centers,” Namaki said.

The number of people infected with coronavirus in Iran increased to 978, Iranian Health Ministry Spokesman Kianoush Jahanpour said on Sunday, adding that 54 patients have died so far.

He added that 175 coronavirus patients have been cured and discharged from hospitals across the country.

Reports from different cities and towns of Iran indicate strenuous efforts by the officials to help the coronavirus patients and prevent an epidemic.

According to the latest reports, the novel coronavirus has killed over 3,000 people worldwide, the vast majority in mainland China. There have been more than 88,000 global cases, with infections on every continent except Antarctica.  ...

 

... The Iranian Health Ministry officials, who were also present at the meeting, reaffirmed Iran’s commitment to the international health regulations and standards.

Iran enjoys all the technical and specialized capabilities needed to battle the coronavirus, they stressed.

Did they test all the 300,000 teams to make sure they weren't infected after a 14 day quarantine?  No?  Well who is to say they won't be spreading the infections they have?  LOL!  Govt intervention typically just makes things worse not better but we have plenty of the same kind of clowns here in the US.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

2 hours ago, Marcin2 said:

So your hate of CCP = the hate of Chinese society cause it is so embedded in the society.

Seems pointless for me to argue with you. 

I have repeatedly made clear my utter distaste of totalitarian governments such as CCP, gov't of Saudi Arabia, gov't of Iran, gov't of North Korea, etc.  They suck.

Arguing with your interpretation of my views would be akin to me arguing with Greta.  I simply do not agree.  And never will, period.

[GunnysGhost + 157]

Said it before and said it again: 

Leftists are the biggest bigots.  

 

'China' is not a 'people'.  Nor is it a culture.  

Hong Kong... the Uiger populace... Tibet...  they disagree with any assertion that 'China wants nothing to change!' 

CCP are vile.  

 

Cheers.

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

8 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Iran enjoys all the technical and specialized capabilities needed to battle the coronavirus, they stressed.

Does licking and kissing public shrines count?

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

17 hours ago, frankfurter said:

Please explain the ways and means the CCP is provoking a war with the West.  

Why? You'll just whine and complain about my "lies".

After all, China unilaterally taking over the Sea hundreds of miles from any sovereign territory is perfectly legit. I'm sure you'll point to some voyage someone ostensibly took hundreds of years ago under some long dead dynasty to validate the "claim". Building and militarising islands far outside territorial waters? No problem. Sending up hunter killer satellites and exploding some of them, leaving dangerous shrapnel in earth orbit? Just boys being boys. Shall I go on, you're just going to plug your ears and stick out your tongue crying foul. 

[0R0 + 6,251]

13 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

The Chinese have absolutely NO desire to change their government or regime!

I don't understand why many in the West presume that they want this, they don't.

They have never been a democracy nor wish to be one, the West in fairness always presumes other countries want and need this when they have had autocratic/dictatorship rule for centuries. We in the West cant understand why they wouldn't want our freedoms, if you have never had them in the first place then you don't appreciate what you have never known. Hong Kong has had them under British rule and that is partly why we see their people rebelling against the CCP as they long for those freedoms they once had.

We have tried and largely failed with many military enforced regime changes in other countries so the track record is poor at best.

That is changing now s the tone of leaked videos from young folks is not dismay or sadness or disarray, it is deep rage, and the target is the CCP. The future of Chinese tolerance and support of the CCP is not what the past had been. The basic tradeoff of CCP power for long persistent improvement in quality of life is over. It is over even if the CCP manages another decade of decent growth. It is definitely over if they can't.

The young people are not as happy as they were just last year.  Unlike their parents, they don't view their current rising incomes as something new or great, but the baseline, what is to be expected. Their experience of lockdown is a shock. The information blackout is even worse in producing fear and rage. This is just beginning to rise. 

[0R0 + 6,251]

5 hours ago, Marcin2 said:

I do not know why @frankfurter is here, at this forum.

This forum is by Americans (only?) and for Americans (only?).

The views presented here are very biased, the reason is most commenters take the uniform US propaganda as the gospel.

Americans are so similar to Chinese in so many respects, as a European I find it simply annoying and frustrating.

The polarization of opinions is astonishing.

70% of recent posts (and this is good) is a discussion about oil, other commodities, investment etc. I really like it.

30% of posts is just bashing, mainly China bashing, but also EU bashing.

I do not know why there is so much hate in you about China, apart from them being real competition and threat by simple existence.

A lot of people say here that they do not bash Chinese oppressed nation, but only CCP.

The problem is that CCP is the game to play in China, if you want to be succesful. And CCP (90million members) + immediate families is how much ? 10-20% of society ? I do not know. Extended families ? Half of society ?

You may find it disgusting but in autocratic/totalitarian countries you have to adapt.

So your hate of CCP = the hate of Chinese society cause it is so embedded in the society.

The recent problem, and major problem of COVID-19 is that its major victims are civil liberties. Loss of human life and economic value is important. But this was the unique occasion to show that totalitarian surveillance present in virtually all countries (the best are as expected China and US, the most money they can pump into it).

Cause COVID-19 HYPE causes FEAR and FEAR is the best instrument to CONTROL population, both in US and China.

Of course they are not the same, US civil liberties are much wider, but at the end of the day it is very similar: DemoRepublicans or CCP FOREVER. I pity Chinese and Americans for this. And I am afraid cause these are the 2 strongers countries, by big margin, and thus they setting tone in crackdown on livil liberties and democracy.

The CCP is 6% of the population. They tend to intermarry and their extended family going into society doesn't reach far, it is mostly families of other CCP members.It is not interwoven into Chinese society, it is just the control they exercise that is intruding into people's lives and work. At the top levels many people join the party to advance their careers, but the private market sector that is 60% of the economy and 90% of job creation, is not as heavily infiltrated by the CCP, just Workplace committees that have control or influence but not necessarily a social relationship. 

Your reading of the CCP is assuming the role of the Polish CP or Soviet CP were similar. The Soviet system didn't have a majority private economy so being part of the party aparat was not necessary for all ambitious people in China. Even in the Soviet system, there was always a limit on how many people can be in the beneficiary circle because it was an anti-productive parasitic layer in the social structure. They needed to have someone to steal from so the number of wolves always had to be restricted to a small proportion of the number of sheep. 

[BLA + 1,666]

3 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

Does licking and kissing public shrines count?

Ireland has banned kissing the Blarney Stone.  

[frankfurter + 562]

3 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

Why? You'll just whine and complain about my "lies".

After all, China unilaterally taking over the Sea hundreds of miles from any sovereign territory is perfectly legit. I'm sure you'll point to some voyage someone ostensibly took hundreds of years ago under some long dead dynasty to validate the "claim". Building and militarising islands far outside territorial waters? No problem. Sending up hunter killer satellites and exploding some of them, leaving dangerous shrapnel in earth orbit? Just boys being boys. Shall I go on, you're just going to plug your ears and stick out your tongue crying foul. 

Are you describing China or the USA?  Those are threats to the West?  

[frankfurter + 562]

2 hours ago, 0R0 said:

The CCP is 6% of the population. They tend to intermarry and their extended family going into society doesn't reach far, it is mostly families of other CCP members.It is not interwoven into Chinese society, it is just the control they exercise that is intruding into people's lives and work. At the top levels many people join the party to advance their careers, but the private market sector that is 60% of the economy and 90% of job creation, is not as heavily infiltrated by the CCP, just Workplace committees that have control or influence but not necessarily a social relationship. 

Your reading of the CCP is assuming the role of the Polish CP or Soviet CP were similar. The Soviet system didn't have a majority private economy so being part of the party aparat was not necessary for all ambitious people in China. Even in the Soviet system, there was always a limit on how many people can be in the beneficiary circle because it was an anti-productive parasitic layer in the social structure. They needed to have someone to steal from so the number of wolves always had to be restricted to a small proportion of the number of sheep. 

Are you describing China or the USA?  Maybe you should open your eyes and see the USA for what it really is.  Deep state?  small %?  inter-marriages?  taxation? who controls your money?  hell, your White House is plain nepotism.  I have shown you state laws that violate your constitution, yet you seemingly accept. 

If you accept your govt, why you cannot accept similar in another country?  aye, there's the rub.