Why Trump Is Right to Re-Open the Economy

[Gerry Maddoux + 3,627]

19 hours ago, 0R0 said:

Thus there is no purpose for the quarantine at all where the medical system is overwhelmed, unless you gain from misery and economic disaster. Amidst the crowded hospitals and dying people on ventilators the picture outside should be of a bustling metropolis because anyone who can have the contagion already has it. 

I'm not sure that's right. Even in the midst of full-blown epidemics, there are always people who are vulnerable but for whatever reason--probably social distancing and hygiene--didn't "catch" it. Whatever "it" was. Additionally, immune systems wax and wane like a yo-yo. More so in some than others.

Emotional stress suppresses the immune system as much as steroids in some cases, and while some people handle exogenous stress factors with almost no internal manifestation of stress, others--no less worthy on the ladder of human ascension--internalize it. When you look at stress hormones that belie even the best poker face, you'll find that they're normal at times, then go ballistic.

I would imagine that as productive people remain encaged their stress levels rise. Therefore, if you let out all the people who sheltered in place a week ago--having escaped infection by the virus--I strongly suspect you'd see an infection rate of twenty percent.

Since you were an early proponent of HCQ/Z, I'm sure you are aware that the French have endorsed it. If nothing more is gained by a little more time, it may be that there will be widespread use of it, which seems to decrease viral replication as well as shedding. Maybe a small foothold will allow us to save souls and also give us more optimism when at last we venture forth. 

[0R0 + 6,251]

https://community.oilprice.com/topic/9796-charts-of-covid-19-fatality-rate-by-age-and-sex/?page=5#comment-98881

I think that is a useful result of HCQ/z and is what led the FDA to remove restrictions on its use. 

That is a huge result already with 1000 New Yorkers in the State run trial in dire condition having started Friday already dented deaths from 525 on Saturday to 264 on Sunday, day 3. 

The epidemic in the US is essentially over. 

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

Nice badge of honor there, @0R0.  Amusing.

"0R0 I must applaud your ability to lie constantly, in a low, droning, monotone way that really tires out your opponents. You are a great follower of your illustrious leader. "

[SERWIN + 749]

On 3/27/2020 at 7:51 PM, Yoshiro Kamamura said:

Trump will be known for the positive impact he had on our economy, and Xi will be known as the destroyer of the world, including his own. Think about that for a couple. When this pandemic scare is all over and the world has time to breath, the ramifications will be dire for China.... And all I have seen you spew is propaganda for the Chinese so far.... You are just insanely jealous that someone not on the Chinese payroll is in charge now, and all those little games that China has been playing for decades now are all irrelevant. Wasted on the loser in the Democrat party. Poison dog food, poisonous toys for children, manipulating their currency, all these things are about to come to a n end. And what about when the WORLD DEMANDS reparations for Xi withholding the fact that there was an outbreak of this virus for about 6 weeks? If they had been upfront and honest then probably none of this would be happening, but no worries, we will get retribution, the American people are starting to demand that the government DO something about it now. All those decades that China was allowed to be a part of the WTO even though they refused to follow the rules established, and no one had the guts until Trump to say WTF? Wonder how they will feel about it now. I personally would love nothing more than to see China banned from the WTO permanently, until the Communist government falls.... Personally I would LOVE to see all assets the Chinese own be frozen around the world, until a trial can be held. Imagine the case, WORLD VS CHINA. Landmark case it will be.... I do believe that all these "loans" from China are now mute points, null and void for the rest of the world. Well except of course shit holes like Venezuela....

[0R0 + 6,251]

20 minutes ago, Gerry Maddoux said:

I'm not sure that's right. Even in the midst of full-blown epidemics, there are always people who are vulnerable but for whatever reason--probably social distancing and hygiene--didn't "catch" it. Whatever "it" was. Additionally, immune systems wax and wane like a yo-yo. More so in some than others.

Emotional stress suppresses the immune system as much as steroids in some cases, and while some people handle exogenous stress factors with almost no internal manifestation of stress, others--no less worthy on the ladder of human ascension--internalize it. When you look at stress hormones that belie even the best poker face, you'll find that they're normal at times, then go ballistic.

I would imagine that as productive people remain encaged their stress levels rise. Therefore, if you let out all the people who sheltered in place a week ago--having escaped infection by the virus--I strongly suspect you'd see an infection rate of twenty percent.

Since you were an early proponent of HCQ/Z, I'm sure you are aware that the French have endorsed it. If nothing more is gained by a little more time, it may be that there will be widespread use of it, which seems to decrease viral replication as well as shedding. Maybe a small foothold will allow us to save souls and also give us more optimism when at last we venture forth. 

While I agree with all your caveats, the balance of damage vs benefit is a bad cold season vs. the great depression. With the remaining 20% some of the population not yet infected you can only produce a small marginal wave of demand for the hospital beds. 

I was appalled to find that both France and Italy had outright prohibitions on using the two approved drug cocktails for (the other being the HIV drugs) with positive clinical results when their people are dying by the thousands with no direct treatment of the disease. It is as if the entire world's government's bureaucracies were working in tandem to prevent treatment of the sick and get a high priced new drug through. 

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

3 minutes ago, SERWIN said:

Xi will be known as the destroyer of the world, including his own.

Please excuse my meme made this morning in poor taste:

[Gerry Maddoux + 3,627]

10 minutes ago, 0R0 said:

I was appalled to find that both France and Italy had outright prohibitions on using the two approved drug cocktails for (the other being the HIV drugs) with positive clinical results when their people are dying by the thousands with no direct treatment of the disease. It is as if the entire world's government's bureaucracies were working in tandem to prevent treatment of the sick and get a high priced new drug through. 

France didn't believe the small cohort study of their own countryman because they don't trust anyone. Italy is so buried under all this they probably didn't know where to turn. You could be right about pushing a high-priced drug through, but I doubt it. It's not that venal behavior goes to church during tragedy, but its practitioners usually have family members fall in this war too. 

Additionally, there is always an underside to the use of any medicine. So, while the right thing is being done by the French government, the FDA (just approved HCQ/Z), and others, there will be people who die of the drugs. The way it looks, many more will be saved than made ill. Nonetheless, like you say, these are giant bureaucratic machines--not used to making snap decisions. I can assure you that you're not the first one to become frustrated at the slow motion of the FDA.

We must assume that, during this crisis, Dr. Fauci has made sure that statistics are being collected: age, weight, medications, underlying health problems, etc. From this will eventually come some absolutely astounding results; of that I am sure. To look on the bright side, those results may--over time--eventuate in some major health improvements in the world population. For example, already it appears that being overweight and smoking, as well as hypertensive and having ischemic heart disease, predispose to mortality. This might be the nudge that actually get people on a healthy track. We'll see. 

Like everyone, I am immensely optimistic that this unexpected cocktail of drugs will basically end this pandemic because of viral attrition. The vaccine labs will come up with something--even if it's no better than a product made like influenza vaccines. There is light at the end of the tunnel . . . and this one appears to be more than an oncoming train.   

[0R0 + 6,251]

1 hour ago, Yoshiro Kamamura said:

0R0 I must applaud your ability to lie constantly, in a low, droning, monotone way that really tires out your opponents. You are a great follower of your illustrious leader. 

Just to pick a few - "apparently, we have a substance that stops the disease" - you don't, unless clinical studies prove you do. And before you do, it's just wishful thinking, Donald's seeking of a miracle cure because the problem would go away and he would be the savior (which is what he wishes the most, to gloat in that role). 

Quarantine has no sense when the medical system has been already overwhelmed - that's another nonsense, when the medical system is overwhelmed, every person getting the virus and manifesting the bad symptoms is sentenced to death. By applying the lockdown, much fewer number of people has to die. Look at what is happening in Spain, Italy and New York. Also people with acute problems like strokes, heart attacks, etc. are sentenced to die, although treatment would save some of them otherwise. Those are also people dying from the mismanagement of the crisis, and those who mismanaged it are responsible. 

I also like how your list naming the causes of death in the USA conveniently omit the opioid crisis, as a result of the fact that fewer and fewer people can afford healthcare plan so they treat symptoms instead of diseases by painkillers, which paints a pretty bleak picture of the American society. The healthcare system has very low number of beds per unit of population, because the system is designed to cater to the richest who can pay the exorbitant prices, rather than to provide universal care for everyone. 

The ugly truth behind all these frankly very silly and logically weakly constructed rationalization is that the richest people in the US (but not only in the US) do not give a twopenny fck about how many ordinary people die - but what they do care about is not losing their wealth and privileges. So, it's back to work, little people, and if you keel over, never mind, there is someone right behind you who will hopefully last a few hours longer! Because you don't see people like Trump or the Texas governor urging people to go to work going to the frontlines and helping the healthcare staff, taking the hit and dying as they die. Oh no, you will never see that. Like that twat Bolsonaro shouting at common people that they have to take the virus "like men, not like boys!". 

Listen to this guy, he knows what he is talking about, because he is a doctor, and unlike you understands intimately how the disease work. And he urges people like you to take it seriously, and for a good reason. 

 

The statistical fetish of the medical community is deranged. It is not science. The study that you plan to obtain your cherished P to tiny fractions costs people's lives. What was published in Dr. Raoult's first results showed the benefit clearly at the basic science level, which normally eludes the medical practitioners and bureaucrats. The Mar 26th publication with 80 patients shows that it cures the SARS COV 2 infection completely. The clinical results are irrelevant to the fact of cure of the underlying disease. That was demonstrated very clearly. The clinical results will depend on myriad other factors and mostly the remaining lung function of the patient. But the HCQ/Z both of known safety parameters with known dosage risks do CURE the underlying infection. 

I don't see a specific lie specified anywhere. So I take it you are just throwing that out for the sake of it. Trump is not "my illustrious leader". I have a personal resentment of him, even though I do share a few of his viewpoints. I do care that he destroyed the "tea party" faction of the Republican party. I do recognize what he does manage to do, where his point of view, or rather the combined point of view of his business advisers and administration team. 

Regarding quarantine, While you have maxed the wave, you can release the quarantine because it will take 2 weeks for new infections to show up with symptoms at the hospital. But the same 20 odd percent of folks in NYC who were shut in before the pandemic expanded rapidly, are still likely to remain shut ins as they had been before, so their infection rate would be low and slow. it would be something you would want to consider before imposing a harsh economically damaging shelter in place order with marginal benefit. But once imposed, you would want to gain information about the extent of exposure through an antibody test of a broad sample in your hot spot geography before you lift the quarantine or lighten its terms. 

It wasn't my list of causes of death. Yes, the opioid crisis should have been on it. Didn't pay attention.

As for your social thinking, the plain old folk depend on their work more than the wealthy would benefit from it. Your insistence on the privilege of surviving without effort or output being some sort of moral imperative is entirely and thoroughly rejected. You are viewing the economics upside down and assigning moral values to simple economic laws. You seem enthused to reduce humanity to subsistence living. You also seem to desire the demise of wealth and the wealthy to the point of distraction. Check out your adult psychologist to check out what stands behind that.

There are plenty of F' them people attitudes among the wealthy, but that is not a universal trait. And if you take the trouble to read some business biographies you will find that it isn't a characteristic of the entrepreneurial class.  

 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

6 hours ago, REAL Green said:

The virus is here to stay for a time.  It will impact in waves so a flexible response is needed.  The entire economy cannot be shut down for very long, obviously.  This means a period of a few years and or until a vaccine is developed means get used to social distancing and an altered way of life.  It appears things like tourism and other economic sectors that require the gathering of people in confined areas are a dead man walking economically.

 

“Harvard Researchers Propose "Intermittent" Lockdowns And "Widespread Surveillance" Of Americans To Avoid Critical-Care Capacity”

https://tinyurl.com/vg5vco7     zero hedge

     zero hedge graph

 

“Researchers from Harvard's T.H. Chan School of Public Health published a study titled "Social distancing strategies for curbing the COVID-19 epidemic," Tuesday (March 24) on the medRxive pre-print server for health sciences, detailing how a single prolonged widespread lockdown of the country is not the best strategy to combat the COVID-19 pandemic. Instead, the study calls for "intermittent" lockdowns and "widespread surveillance" to mitigate the spread and prevent hospital systems from being overwhelmed…However, the computer models are based on other pandemics and already show that one prolonged lockdown of the country is not the best solution because the virus will return in waves.  The study says some parts of the country where virus cases are low can remain open for business. While other parts that are hard-hit can enforce trict "stay-at-home" public health orders to mitigate the risks of overwhelming hospital systems…The study said the pandemic would likely hit in waves, with the virus subsiding this summer, but could return this fall…The study concludes by saying, "intermittent distancing measures" on 20-week intervals for specific geographical regions could be turned on and off like a water spigot through 2022…As for what determines if an area should be locked down for a 20-week interval is if cases exceed 37.5 cases of the disease per 10,000 adult people in the population. This threshold, the researchers note, would allow health care systems in those regions to maintain an adequate number of hospital beds and ICU-level treatments…To sum up, "intermittent" social distancing could become a reality, embraced by the Trump administration to avoid a prolonged depression in the US as much of the economy is shut down at the moment.”

Areas that depend on travel for their economy are in big trouble. Also any business that depends on close social contact. That includes an awful lot of businesses, motels restaurants, clothing stores, thrift shops. I think that more people will be hurt by a sick economy than by Covid 19. The ones that need to stay home and have minimal contacts are the old and infirm. The rest need to use social distancing but still stay active doing something to earn a living.

[Marcin2 + 725]

7 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Marcin have a read of this.

https://www.newsweek.com/wuhan-covid-19-death-toll-may-tens-thousands-data-cremations-shipments-urns-suggest-1494914

This sounds far more accurate to me!

I make you correct that they cant hide it!!

 

Rob,

I do not suggest that historical numbers in China are right ( or wrong ). I do not know what to think and will even not bother to spent time to find out. There could be 3,000 as they reported or even 10,000 casualties, you can hide such a number in a province of 60 million or a country of 1,400 million.

But at the moment this is irrelevant for most of CoVID19 discussions.

My opinion is that at present the number of new cases and new deaths should be low or very low cause China relaxed the safety measures.

Rob, this the matter of deduction and not belief in any data.

The theorem that there is infinite number of primes, you see the proof it does not matter if Trump, Mao, Xi or Satan himself has shown it to you, cause you have brain to make a judgement.

[John Foote + 1,135]

On 3/27/2020 at 9:16 PM, ronwagn said:

Did you understand what I said? We have one third the number of cases that Western and Southern Europe have. That is an equivalent population to ours. We might catch up with them, but that would be awhile. 

By time I read the post the USA had passed everyone else as was number 1 in confirmed. Now as we have finally got on the testing train it made since we would increase.

Now how many cases there are really, no one can know. Being a church going country works against us. The super spreaders in South Korea and France were from attending church. 

A scare site for the day, suggesting Wuhan deaths were much, much, worse. I personally find optimism in Germany's mortality rates. 

https://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/wuhan-deaths-03272020182846.html?fbclid=IwAR2IdbEDX4xkzWIsvKLCKl4X170V5zc5o7xYYbyiXfr68WU_tZkxG9cGWNw

[John Foote + 1,135]

On 3/28/2020 at 11:11 PM, footeab@yahoo.com said:

You just used bait an switch in your argument.  Person making those decisions IS IN PRODUCTION.  Buffet, topic of discussion, DOES NOT make these decisions.  He works in the services; mostly financial, with a small helping of business services.  😎

On an emotional level I agree with your bias to manufacturing and production, work in a manufacturing entity and love it. But in the modern world finance is a great enabler and if you can't attract it, it's a mighty struggle to be significant. And there are those who produce little, but for reasons I often struggle to see, can attract capital. Pipe Pipers of capital create a lot of jobs.

[Yoshiro Kamamura + 274]

John Oliver - This crisis paints a very dark picture of our nation's psyche where our collective worship of the market is slowly turning into a f%$#ing death cult (that is IMO a quote worthy of a marble monument)

Also John Oliver - The republican pundits are basically offering to sacrifice the oldest and weakest so that the economy does not slow down, as if the virus was a pack of hungry wolves at the gates. 

Also John Oliver - The governors of the individual states are bidding against each other for boxes of emergency supplies while the nation watches. 

[Hotone + 412]

The World Health Organization (WHO) have launched SOLIDARITY, a giant trial, testing the potential of therapies, old and new, to beat the coronavirus that is causing the current pandemic.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/who-launch-trial-testing-4-potential-covid-19-treatments

Extracts below:

SOLIDARITY includes research looking at four possible therapeutics: remdesivir; chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine; lopinavir plus ritonavir; and lopinavir plus ritonavir and interferon-beta.

Most promising is remdesivir, which relies on a mechanism that appears to be effective against viruses, specifically Coronaviruses.

... A WHO report from March 13 indicates that “chloroquine has received significant attention in [different] countries as a potentially useful prophylactic [preventive] and curative agent, prompting the need to examine emerging evidence to inform a decision on its potential role.”

The report weighed the results of different preliminary studies that tested the potential of chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine in the treatment of COVID-19, and it paved the way for larger trials due to verify the effectiveness of these drugs against the new disease.

In his independent comment, Dr. Preston notes that “[t]he anti-viral effects of chloroquine are thought to derive from two distinct functions.”

“In one,” he explains, “chloroquine blocks the synthesis of parts of the virus receptors on cells, by inhibiting the addition of certain sugar groups to the cell surface that are recognized by the virus.”

“In the second mechanism, following attachment of the virus to the cell surface, it is internalized within a membrane-enclosed compartment,” which may ultimately inhibit the virus’s replication.

The commentator further observes: “The virus escapes from this to reach the internal environment of the cell in a process that is triggered by a reduction in pH (making more acidic) of this compartment. Chloroquine can increase the intracellular pH (make it more alkaline), and this inhibits the escape of the virus into the cell where it replicates.”

Edited March 30, 2020 by Hotone

[ronwagn + 6,290]

3 hours ago, John Foote said:

By time I read the post the USA had passed everyone else as was number 1 in confirmed. Now as we have finally got on the testing train it made since we would increase.

Now how many cases there are really, no one can know. Being a church going country works against us. The super spreaders in South Korea and France were from attending church. 

A scare site for the day, suggesting Wuhan deaths were much, much, worse. I personally find optimism in Germany's mortality rates. 

https://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/wuhan-deaths-03272020182846.html?fbclid=IwAR2IdbEDX4xkzWIsvKLCKl4X170V5zc5o7xYYbyiXfr68WU_tZkxG9cGWNw

Germany's mortality rate is great, and we should examine how they accomplished that. Our rate is better than Europe as a whole. Italy and Spain have a total of 19,000 deaths while we have 3,000 with a population of 330 million versus 107 million for Italy and Spain which is a third of ours. 

Edited March 30, 2020 by ronwagn
grammar

[El Nikko + 2,145]

4 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

Germany's mortality rate is great, and we should examine how they accomplished that. Our rate is better than Europe as a whole. Italy and Spain have a total of 19,000 deaths while we have 3,000 with a population of 330 million versus 107 million for Italy and Spain which a third of ours. 

What would happen if most of the people who died with (not necessarily from) CV-19 already had 1-3 serious underlying ilness's, were mostly old and most likely already in care whether it be at home, hospitals or care homes? When the dust settles we will find out this is exactly what happened, the people in care weren't going to bars or cinemas...they probably contracted it from carers/family/visitors who weren't showing symptoms hense the importance of testing health workers and the population in general. If someone like that contracts CV-19 and dies of heart failure etc what goes on the death certificate? I'll bet my bottom dollar they will be in the statistics of CV-19 deaths which is hugely misleading to say the least. The data we have already supports much of this and we know this is likely the case in Italy, Spain and maybe the UK. This isn't unusual, this is what happens every year with other viruses becasue the victims have almost no immune system.

 

[Marcin2 + 725]

On 3/25/2020 at 7:42 AM, Tom Kirkman said:

New York Post:  Coronavirus turning point in US will be earlier than predicted, Nobel laureate says

The US will see a turning point in the battle to contain coronavirus sooner than expected, according to the Nobel laureate who correctly predicted when China would get through the worst of its crisis.

Stanford University biology professor Michael Levitt, who won the 2013 Nobel Prize in chemistry, said his models don’t support predictions that the virus will wreak months or even years of social disruption or cause millions of deaths, the Los Angeles Times reported.

“What we need is to control the panic … we’re going to be fine,” assured Levitt, who correctly predicted early on that China would get through the worst of the outbreak by mid-February.

His optimistic report on China said the country would peak with around 80,000 cases and 3,250 deaths. He was not far off: China has reported 81,588 cases with 3,281 deaths as of March 24.

Now Levitt is looking at 78 countries that have reported more than 50 new infections each day.

He said he focuses on new cases — as opposed to overall totals — and sees “signs of recovery” in each of the places.

“Numbers are still noisy, but there are clear signs of slowed growth,” Levitt said, without offering a concrete date for when the US may see its turning point.

The US has confirmed more than 46,000 cases, resulting in at least 593 deaths as of Tuesday afternoon, according to figures from Johns Hopkins University.

Levitt acknowledged that not all cases have been detected in some countries, but their death tolls are on track with his findings, the outlet reported.

Though fatality rates are higher than the flu, Levitt said the pandemic is “not the end of the world,” according to the outlet.

“The real situation is not as nearly as terrible as they make it out to be,” Levitt told the newspaper.

Tom, No hard feelings, but I am going to down vote any bullsh*t about this epidemic, cause people like you and most of Americans writing in this forum are typical of Trump supporters. And Trump voting base encourages Trump irresponsible policies that really kill people in thousands, and what more will spread additional imported cases to various countries, that still not banned incoming American citizens.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

14 minutes ago, Marcin2 said:

Tom, No hard feelings, but I am going to down vote any bullsh*t about this epidemic, cause people like you and most of Americans writing in this forum are typical of Trump supporters. And Trump voting base encourages Trump irresponsible policies that really kill people in thousands, and what more will spread additional imported cases to various countries, that still not banned incoming American citizens.

No worries Marcin, you are free to believe anything you wish.  I laughed when I saw the red downvote arrows.  Both you and I have strong views on this, and we disagree.  My views on this are probably in the minority, and I'm used to it anyway.

[Yoshiro Kamamura + 274]

Meanwhile, Trump's "parade" continues, as he actually had the nerve to accuse the hospital staff in New York of "hoarding Equipment". 

Senator Kirsten Gillibrant comments Trump's notion that "New York should have enough equipment" - "I think the president is wrong, and he has been absolutely unhelpful in his constant rhetoric of pitting one state and one region against the other including attacking our first time responders and saying that somehow, our mask are missing. I think that his comments are outrageous, and show that he is not an effective leader in times of crisis."

 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

26 minutes ago, El Nikko said:

What would happen if most of the people who died with (not necessarily from) CV-19 already had 1-3 serious underlying ilness's, were mostly old and most likely already in care whether it be at home, hospitals or care homes? When the dust settles we will find out this is exactly what happened, the people in care weren't going to bars or cinemas...they probably contracted it from carers/family/visitors who weren't showing symptoms hense the importance of testing health workers and the population in general. If someone like that contracts CV-19 and dies of heart failure etc what goes on the death certificate? I'll bet my bottom dollar they will be in the statistics of CV-19 deaths which is hugely misleading to say the least. The data we have already supports much of this and we know this is likely the case in Italy, Spain and maybe the UK. This isn't unusual, this is what happens every year with other viruses becasue the victims have almost no immune system.

 

Yes, all of those things need to be taken into consideration but it is impossible to actually do that with the large numbers. Nursing home deaths are especially suspect but so are the deaths of all old and infirm. It all depends on who writes up the death certificate and how they do it. Comorbidities can all be mentioned, or not mentioned. 

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

On 3/29/2020 at 12:28 PM, Rob Plant said:

An alternative way of fighting the virus!!!

 

I've been doing the sauna. Going to 140F should kill most any pathogens and the vodka should as well. I'm more of a whisky fan, and posted here months ago about the Englishman trapped in Wuhan who cured himself with Hot toddys until his whisky ran out.

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

21 hours ago, ronwagn said:

 

So you are trying to tell me that the British health system is better than the American health system? Please tell me how you educate your people about their health and avoid having them go to the emergency departments for foolish reasons? I happen to be well aware of how our emergency system is abused by many people. Maybe you have a magic solution. We have health departments that offer medical care on a sliding scale for payment. They are available.

Plenty of educational advertisements and a 24 hour call line where you can talk to a nurse.  They tell you to: stay home and self care, make an appointment with your regular physician, visit a urgent care clinic, visit emergency yourself, or call you an ambulance - all based on severity.

It works, in a land where you pay nothing out-of-pocket for any of these things, education is important.

https://www.albertahealthservices.ca/findhealth/service.aspx?Id=1001957

Edited March 31, 2020 by Enthalpic

[El Nikko + 2,145]

Trump's going to give Vlad a ring in the morning

https://www.rigzone.com/news/wire/trump_plans_call_with_putin_to_discuss_falling_oil_prices-30-mar-2020-161562-article/

 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

1 hour ago, Enthalpic said:

Plenty of educational advertisements and a 24 hour call line where you can talk to a nurse.  They tell you to: stay home and self care, make an appointment with your regular physician, visit a urgent care clinic, visit emergency yourself, or call you an ambulance - all based on severity.

It works, in a land where you pay nothing out-of-pocket for any of these things, education is important.

https://www.albertahealthservices.ca/findhealth/service.aspx?Id=1001957

Believe me, we have plenty of people who pay nothing out of pocket for health care. We are late to the game in telemedicine and not that great on tele education. We are supposedly increasing tele education for the coronavirus. I personally have been a believer in distance education since the seventies. I have a topic on it:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nkAnzn9R7NH0LqihEeeq4be4ckBgk70YkGKbHsrnbTU/edit

I am very impressed with all of the volunteers Britain has had for their coronavirus efforts. 

 

The UK Government Asked for

250,000 Coronavirus Volunteers, and 405,000 Came Forward in 24 Hours

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MXY8T0j7k0oUBsHW4BfjJM__DRIyzqrDf_FSlV4hHpw/edit#

Edited March 31, 2020 by ronwagn

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]