A New Solar-Panel Plant Could Have Capacity to Meet Half of Global Demand

[Meredith Poor + 894]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-29/gcl-system-plans-to-build-world-s-biggest-solar-panel-plant?srnd=premium&sref=RzXyyOXY

If the US builds out 30Gw per year over the next 30 years, it would have 900Gw installed by 2050.

US peak power demand on a July day is about 400Gw.

The announcement in the link above applies to one company. If several companies build similar capacity, we will have a solar glut that trivializes the current oil glut.

[Rob Kramer + 696]

In 30 years is demand the same?

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

At $5/bbl for oil....who gives a s**t about solar panels!

I think that we have bigger fish to fry at the moment...but maybe that’s just me, halfway through my lockdown in Malaysia.

[Rob Kramer + 696]

I love solar and always wanted to use its "free" energy. But ever since striking up conversation with the owners of the only house on the street with panels on their house I've seen their flaws are 10x bigger than advertised.  First I'll say their panels are a rooftop rental. They get 400$ a year. Second the panels 3yrs old? Would have been 40-50k .... the system looks like 10k watts . I take daily strolls past and check the meter. ALL winter 900 - 4700(yesterday on a sunny day)  the average has been about 1500. So most of the year there getting 1/5th of system capacity.  I've never read this anywhere. Also they still pay for electricity and the 46$/month delivery cost to stay connected to the grid . 

[Rob Kramer + 696]

What's not said (because its not legal or green) a natural gas generator with liquid cooling is about 6k and would save you 46$/month to not be grid connected. Plus can run heat and hot water.  And a few batteries just so it doesn't cycle too often.  But like I said that's too cost effective so it's not legal here.

[Boat + 1,323]

11 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

At $5/bbl for oil....who gives a s**t about solar panels!

I think that we have bigger fish to fry at the moment...but maybe that’s just me, halfway through my lockdown in Malaysia.

Investing in oil is like Investing in telephone booths. Not much future long term.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

2 minutes ago, Boat said:

Investing in oil is like Investing in telephone booths. Not much future long term.

Okay, not a problem, go buy all the cheap solar panels your heart desires, it is no skin off my nose.

PS: I need those damn telephone booths to change into my superhero outfit - the union says we can only put on union prescribed outfits in union telephone booths. Kinda fun when Catwoman picks the same booth to change in...but I digress...

[KeyboardWarrior + 527]

INHALES

FFS JUST BUILD THE GOD DAMNED NUCLEAR PLANTS 

[KeyboardWarrior + 527]

Solar is still shit in my state, and we use heavy duty subsidies. I'll take a hard pass. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

4 hours ago, Rob Kramer said:

In 30 years is demand the same?

Probably higher. I thought I would save money when I went with all the new efficient light bulbs. My electric company kept giving me new meters after I saved a little money. Now my bills are higher. 

I am interested in what the electricity, natural gas, gasoline costs ME and the other citizens, not with how much wind or solar are out there. I am not very concerned with CO2 but am with REAL pollution like all the coal emissions coming from Asia. 

I want to use our oil and natural gas not support Russia and OPEC. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

4 hours ago, Rob Kramer said:

I love solar and always wanted to use its "free" energy. But ever since striking up conversation with the owners of the only house on the street with panels on their house I've seen their flaws are 10x bigger than advertised.  First I'll say their panels are a rooftop rental. They get 400$ a year. Second the panels 3yrs old? Would have been 40-50k .... the system looks like 10k watts . I take daily strolls past and check the meter. ALL winter 900 - 4700(yesterday on a sunny day)  the average has been about 1500. So most of the year there getting 1/5th of system capacity.  I've never read this anywhere. Also they still pay for electricity and the 46$/month delivery cost to stay connected to the grid . 

It seems like California has gotten some truth talkers and they are really backing off of their solar ambitions. Maybe they learned something from the semi fast train they are still trying to build. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

5 hours ago, Rob Kramer said:

What's not said (because its not legal or green) a natural gas generator with liquid cooling is about 6k and would save you 46$/month to not be grid connected. Plus can run heat and hot water.  And a few batteries just so it doesn't cycle too often.  But like I said that's too cost effective so it's not legal here.

Sounds like a great idea. I am curious to see how all these ideas work out as the costs reduce for equipment, storage etc. The missing factor is how long one plans on staying in one home. I would certainly do something if we were young and planned to stay put! We heated our whole home, this winter, with just one little natural gas heating stove. That includes an attached garage that we turned into a multipurpose room. We didn't use our central HVAC to keep from wasting heat and running the fan. Our latitude is the same of Indianapolis, about 100 miles west. 

It will be interesting to see how the various governmental levels react when people can actually become energy independent via solar and storage, or other means. Lost taxation will be a big issue. The same will be true of electric vehicles charged by solar panels at home. My guess is that EV's will be charged by the mile and monitored remotely. Vehicle's black boxes probably already have this information and a lot more. Some even say your car can be controlled remotely. 

Rob, how can your idea not be legal for your area?! 

Edited March 29, 2020 by ronwagn
addition

[Rob Kramer + 696]

1 hour ago, ronwagn said:

Sounds like a great idea. I am curious to see how all these ideas work out as the costs reduce for equipment, storage etc. The missing factor is how long one plans on staying in one home. I would certainly do something if we were young and planned to stay put! We heated our whole home, this winter, with just one little natural gas heating stove. That includes an attached garage that we turned into a multipurpose room. We didn't use our central HVAC to keep from wasting heat and running the fan. Our latitude is the same of Indianapolis, about 100 miles west. 

It will be interesting to see how the various governmental levels react when people can actually become energy independent via solar and storage, or other means. Lost taxation will be a big issue. The same will be true of electric vehicles charged by solar panels at home. My guess is that EV's will be charged by the mile and monitored remotely. Vehicle's black boxes probably already have this information and a lot more. Some even say your car can be controlled remotely. 

Rob, how can your idea not be legal for your area?! 

I've read about noise regulations so that's a mabey pass . Grid connection is mandatory I've read. Also I dont know if battery storage or the cooling system would be allowed to be piped through the wall. Ect. I'm not sold on my current house as it's too small. But if I had a country lot and some more sqare footage I'd try and get a system to pass. 20$ enbridge customer fee and 46$ hydro (electricity) delivery fee base charge is criminal.  I just get frustrated when 2/3s of the bill is fee and not the product. 

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

13 hours ago, Boat said:

Investing in oil is like Investing in telephone booths. Not much future long term.

Enjoy your paper airplanes, because there will never be commercial battery airline power, and wind powered Airlines? Gliders, also ridiculous. But yeah, just history

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

6 hours ago, Rob Kramer said:

I've read about noise regulations so that's a mabey pass . Grid connection is mandatory I've read. Also I dont know if battery storage or the cooling system would be allowed to be piped through the wall. Ect. I'm not sold on my current house as it's too small. But if I had a country lot and some more sqare footage I'd try and get a system to pass. 20$ enbridge customer fee and 46$ hydro (electricity) delivery fee base charge is criminal.  I just get frustrated when 2/3s of the bill is fee and not the product. 

they're charging you for the "smart metering". You didn't ask for it, you don't benefit from it, but you're not a utility so your voice is meaningless

[Rob Kramer + 696]

If you do have solar they charge you for selling on their lines or  buying when you need the power because these things average 1/10to 1/5th all winter. And nothing at night. And add batteries (that are costly large and wear out) you have to live like your camping all the time and switch your stove dryer and fridge back to gas . Really you cant get away from the system and it's not too bad. Most of the power where I live is from hydro so it is green. But it was fun to have a mental exercise in reducing utility to bare min (gas because without it we freeze ... and solar is not covering that workload). 

[Rob Kramer + 696]

I just did the math for the heck of it. To recover the 46$ alone the system at peak 18c would need 2000watts for 4 hours. So even at 50% efficientcy that's a 4 k watt system. In my area installed is 10k$ mabey more with older electric panel or roof needing work ect. Or you could buy almost any canadian bank stock in a tax free account and collect a 5.5% div plus have the div grow. Capital appreciation and liquidity for emergency. Cash is king is the saying. 

[0R0 + 6,251]

17 hours ago, Rob Kramer said:

In 30 years is demand the same?

No. It going to be less globally, a little more in the US. Unless India develops. Somehow I think they would prefer to use their land to feed themselves. 

[Wolfgang Horn + 7]

17 hours ago, Rob Kramer said:

In 30 years is demand the same?

No, the demand will be lower

[0R0 + 6,251]

12 hours ago, ronwagn said:

I am interested in what the electricity, natural gas, gasoline costs ME and the other citizens, not with how much wind or solar are out there. I am not very concerned with CO2 but am with REAL pollution like all the coal emissions coming from Asia. 

 

Did you notice how wet the US has been since the China quarantine? Don't remember a March with nearly daily rain. Finally seeing what the Chinese particulate cloud has been doing to Pacific ocean evaporation. Probably global ocean evaporation. 

[Wolfgang Horn + 7]

This is a clear and manageable view to the future:

Quote

US builds out 30Gw per year over the next 30 years = 900Gw installed by 2050.

And all oil investments are risky, vague, 19th century approaches, fossil, bad for the athmosphere, polluting the planet, and so on - so turn to solar energy!

 

[James Regan + 1,776]

1 hour ago, Wolfgang Horn said:

This is a clear and manageable view to the future:

And all oil investments are risky, vague, 19th century approaches, fossil, bad for the athmosphere, polluting the planet, and so on - so turn to solar energy!

 

Sir when do you propose this "turn" and how long will it take, what will fill in the gap? Regardless of the price you will still be using fossil fuels for the rest of your life. In some countries Plastic Dog Turds are a commodity......

[Rob Kramer + 696]

2 hours ago, 0R0 said:

No. It going to be less globally, a little more in the US. Unless India develops. Somehow I think they would prefer to use their land to feed themselves. 

 

1 hour ago, Wolfgang Horn said:

No, the demand will be lower

People have always wanted more. I'll agree to disagree.  Especially if everyone is driving electric cars in 30 years .... tons of oil that is now electricity demand. 

[Wolfgang Horn + 7]

6 hours ago, James Regan said:

Sir when do you propose this "turn" and how long will it take, what will fill in the gap? Regardless of the price you will still be using fossil fuels for the rest of your life. In some countries Plastic Dog Turds are a commodity......

(i) The turnover to non-fossil energies is not my invention, it is a clear and not to misinterprete measurement f.i. by the EU

(ii) "Decarbonisation" till the year 2050 is a task we are focussed to work since year now

(iii) There will not be any "gap", as the process (or transformation) to non-fossil life is a gradual process. It takes 30 year. And within my lifetime, yes, I will be using fossil fuels, but every year a litte less ...

[ronwagn + 6,290]

20 hours ago, Rob Kramer said:

I've read about noise regulations so that's a mabey pass . Grid connection is mandatory I've read. Also I dont know if battery storage or the cooling system would be allowed to be piped through the wall. Ect. I'm not sold on my current house as it's too small. But if I had a country lot and some more sqare footage I'd try and get a system to pass. 20$ enbridge customer fee and 46$ hydro (electricity) delivery fee base charge is criminal.  I just get frustrated when 2/3s of the bill is fee and not the product. 

If you are connected to the grid what would they charge you if you didn't use anything?