Dan Clemmensen + 1,011 April 25, 2020 On 4/25/2020 at 7:58 PM, Valerie Williams said: Without purchasing the document, I can only think that the Abstract appears to support what I said to Ron Ron in the last comment. And, it's only talking about current electrical demand. What about when you convert all vehicles to electricity? What about when everything else that uses fossil fuels converts to electricity? To be sure, in my reply to Ron Ron, I talked about "right now" and "not yet". It's not as if I think we'll never figure it out. We just haven't yet. Expand These analyses bother me, for three reasons: 1) they act like solar and wind overcapacity must be avoided at all costs, 2) long-term storage (weeks or months) is a huge problem, 3) long-distance energy transport is a huge problem. OK: 1) Overbuilding solar or wind is not a problem if the capital cost is low enough. This cost has been decreasing and will probably continue to decrease. 2 and 3) We already have long-distance transport and long-term storage for Natural Gas. If wind and solar are cheap enough (see point 1) then electricity can be used to produce methane, which is the same as natural gas Conversion efficiencies are not great but are improving, and they don't matter much if you are using excess electricity (see point 1). It can be and is being stored for months, not hours, and it can be and is being shipped in massive amounts by pipeline and LNG tanker, and we already have the infrastructure in place to convert it back into electricity. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Valerie Williams + 129 April 25, 2020 On 4/25/2020 at 8:43 PM, James Regan said: ok apart from Roads, Pizza and Toga Parties, what did the Romans ever do for us...? Expand bridges, viaducts, plumbing, under-floor heating... 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
El Nikko + 2,145 nb April 25, 2020 On 4/25/2020 at 9:42 PM, Valerie Williams said: bridges, viaducts, plumbing, under-floor heating... Expand Labrador? 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
James Regan + 1,776 April 25, 2020 On 4/25/2020 at 9:42 PM, Valerie Williams said: bridges, viaducts, plumbing, under-floor heating... Expand Okay apart from Roads,Pizza Toga parties bridges, viaducts, plumbing, under-floor heating, what did the Romans really do for us......? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
James Regan + 1,776 April 25, 2020 (edited) On 4/25/2020 at 9:59 PM, El Nikko said: Labrador? Expand Another Dog Lover, there's a good few on here, heres my criminal faction... Edited April 25, 2020 by James Regan 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Valerie Williams + 129 April 25, 2020 On 4/25/2020 at 10:17 PM, James Regan said: Okay apart from Roads,Pizza Toga parties bridges, viaducts, plumbing, under-floor heating, what did the Romans really do for us......? Expand Fiiiiive golden rings! 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
James Regan + 1,776 April 25, 2020 On 4/25/2020 at 10:23 PM, Valerie Williams said: Fiiiiive golden rings! Expand Education, law, libraries, theatre, trade,, other than that not much else worth mentioning...... Spurred Monty Python on for the Life of Brian 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dan Warnick + 6,100 April 25, 2020 On 4/25/2020 at 10:35 PM, James Regan said: Education, law, libraries, theatre, trade,, other than that not much else worth mentioning...... Spurred Monty Python on for the Life of Brian Expand Roman Numerals, and.........................................Toga Parties!!! 😇🥳😇🥳😇🥳😇🥳🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Valerie Williams + 129 April 25, 2020 On 4/25/2020 at 6:22 PM, Dan Warnick said: Toga Parties! Expand On 4/25/2020 at 11:40 PM, Dan Warnick said: Roman Numerals, and.........................................Toga Parties!!! 😇🥳😇🥳😇🥳😇🥳🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷 Expand Went to college in the 80's, didn't you, Blutarsky? 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nsdp + 449 eh April 26, 2020 On 4/24/2020 at 10:22 PM, El Nikko said: Lol now that's funny..it's going to die if gas and oil prices stay depressed for months if not years 😂 Expand Solar has won. Even if coal were free to burn, power stations couldn't compete This article is more than 5 years old https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/07/solar-has-won-even-if-coal-were-free-to-burn-power-stations-couldnt-compete Giles Par kinsonnow. O&G Prices can stay low forever; fossil competes only with fossil now. Plants wear out and break down, Fossil gas fired costs $X per MW of name plate Coal or oil fired 12X ; biggest reason is you have to have cooling water for the condenser. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Valerie Williams + 129 April 26, 2020 On 4/26/2020 at 12:03 AM, nsdp said: Solar has won. Even if coal were free to burn, power stations couldn't compete This article is more than 5 years old https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/07/solar-has-won-even-if-coal-were-free-to-burn-power-stations-couldnt-compete Giles Par kinsonnow. O&G Prices can stay low forever; fossil competes only with fossil now. Plants wear out and break down, Fossil gas fired costs $X per MW of name plate Coal or oil fired 12X ; biggest reason is you have to have cooling water for the condenser. Expand Large gains toward the goal? Yes. Won? Curb your enthusiasm, Guardian. Doesn't solve fuel for air travel, and long haul, etc. Doesn't solve the battery problem I already talked about a few comments back. From your article: Quote Households and businesses have little incentive to export excess power. They don't get paid much for it anyway. Ergon Energy admits that this will likely encourage households to install battery storage. Expand https://www.forbes.com/sites/korihale/2019/08/06/teslas-megapack-battery-ambitions-could-drain-cobalt-supply/#6ee51145b8c9 The battery problem is not a small issue. I already talked about the environmental, human rights and supply trouble with significantly increasing the entire world's reliance on battery storage. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dan Warnick + 6,100 April 26, 2020 On 4/25/2020 at 11:56 PM, Valerie Williams said: Went to college in the 80's, didn't you, Blutarsky? Expand Yes! Graduated in 1986, to be exact. Carbongdale, Illinois, er, Carbondale. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Valerie Williams + 129 April 26, 2020 On 4/26/2020 at 12:27 AM, Dan Warnick said: Carbongdale Expand I see what you did there Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nsdp + 449 eh April 26, 2020 On 4/25/2020 at 8:46 PM, Dan Clemmensen said: These analyses bother me, for three reasons: 1) they act like solar and wind overcapacity must be avoided at all costs, 2) long-term storage (weeks or months) is a huge problem, 3) long-distance energy transport is a huge problem. OK: 1) Overbuilding solar or wind is not a problem if the capital cost is low enough. This cost has been decreasing and will probably continue to decrease. 2 and 3) We already have long-distance transport and long-term storage for Natural Gas. If wind and solar are cheap enough (see point 1) then electricity can be used to produce methane, which is the same as natural gas Conversion efficiencies are not great but are improving, and they don't matter much if you are using excess electricity (see point 1). It can be and is being stored for months, not hours, and it can be and is being shipped in massive amounts by pipeline and LNG tanker, and to convert it back into electricity. Expand IEEEIEEE04082018.pdfIEEE04082018.pdfFetching info... Dan this happens to be my turf. thanks to the great engineers at NASA who worked on the Saturn V we already have the infrastructure design in place at the Cape that has 3X the energy density per cubic meter of LNG . hydrogen can be used as a storage medium and you can store for longer than LNG by using salt caverns. Quantity of storage can be 100GWH plus and is much easier to handle. Made by electrolysis that is 89+% efficient and in a plant designed to be 73% efficient(NETL in 1996). Only combustion product is pure water. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nsdp + 449 eh April 26, 2020 On 4/26/2020 at 12:20 AM, Valerie Williams said: Large gains toward the goal? Yes. Won? Curb your enthusiasm, Guardian. Doesn't solve fuel for air travel, and long haul, etc. Doesn't solve the battery problem I already talked about a few comments back. From your article: https://www.forbes.com/sites/korihale/2019/08/06/teslas-megapack-battery-ambitions-could-drain-cobalt-supply/#6ee51145b8c9 The battery problem is not a small issue. I already talked about the environmental, human rights and supply trouble with significantly increasing the entire world's reliance on battery storage. Expand Batteries are for the ignorant and believe me the electric Utility industry is loaded with them. NASA solved this problem for the Saturn V in 1963. No one seems to think outside the box; they have either forgotten or never knew the solution. The Chinese understand https://patents.google.com/patent/CN104937222A/en 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dan Clemmensen + 1,011 April 26, 2020 On 4/26/2020 at 12:29 AM, nsdp said: IEEEIEEE04082018.pdfIEEE04082018.pdf 361.93 kB · 0 downloads Dan this happens to be my turf. thanks to the great engineers at NASA who worked on the Saturn V we already have the infrastructure design in place at the Cape that has 3X the energy density per cubic meter of LNG . hydrogen can be used as a storage medium and you can store for longer than LNG by using salt caverns. Quantity of storage can be 100GWH plus and is much easier to handle. Made by electrolysis that is 89+% efficient and in a plant designed to be 73% efficient(NETL in 1996). Only combustion product is pure water. Expand Absolutely. Conversion from H2 to CH4 is a wasteful extra step. It's only advantage is that is can immediately use the entire existing storage, transport and power generation infrastructure, both physical and financial. No need to modify anything, just "merely"(!) add the power-to-gas plants near the solar and wind fields. The "hydrogen economy" requires either an entirely new infrastructure or an "interesting" transition of the existing CH4 infrastructure. CH4 is stored as a gas primarily in depleted oil or gas fields. For example, PG&E buys gas in the Spring and Fall for use in Summer and Winter, with some basically being stored for 6 months. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dan Clemmensen + 1,011 April 26, 2020 On 4/26/2020 at 12:20 AM, Valerie Williams said: Large gains toward the goal? Yes. Won? Curb your enthusiasm, Guardian. Doesn't solve fuel for air travel, and long haul, etc. Doesn't solve the battery problem I already talked about a few comments back. Expand Wind and solar continue to improve as a fairly good clip. Once electricity is cheap enough, it can be used to make jet fuel. The only place this currently makes sense today is on a US Navy aircraft carrier, but the technology is in place. Long-haul on land: mostly convert to electric, mostly trains. Long-haul at sea: LNG is already being used on some container ships and cruise ships and of course on LNG carriers. Replace fossil LNG with power-to-gas CH4. Fossil fuel still has a role to play, but that role is in the 20-to-30 year transition to 100% renewables. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pisstol + 48 TF April 26, 2020 Shakil, you sound exactly like Martin Shkreli, but I think he's still in prison. With regard to your investment plans read this: https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/US-Probes-Insider-Trading-Tied-To-OPEC-Oil-Deal.html I hope everybody who does something illegal to make money off the disaster in the oil industry gets caught. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
surrept33 + 612 st April 26, 2020 On 4/26/2020 at 1:07 AM, pisstol said: Shakil, you sound exactly like Martin Shkreli, but I think he's still in prison. With regard to your investment plans read this: https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/US-Probes-Insider-Trading-Tied-To-OPEC-Oil-Deal.html I hope everybody who does something illegal to make money off the disaster in the oil industry gets caught. Expand That's interesting. Unlike the SEC, the CFTC doesn't f- around. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douglas Buckland + 6,308 April 26, 2020 On 4/25/2020 at 4:15 PM, James Regan said: Hey, were with you, dont tar us with the same brush, we are your special friend, and if there's a Navy Seal unit anywhere, you know a Cobra Task force is aware as our Elite SAS are up for it, normally we do the recon for your special forces.... Expand So YOUR special forces do recon for OUR special forces....where did you find this little factoid? I see you totally ignored your boys from Poole..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
James Regan + 1,776 April 26, 2020 On 4/26/2020 at 1:59 AM, Douglas Buckland said: So YOUR special forces do recon for OUR special forces....where did you find this little factoid? I see you totally ignored your boys from Poole..... Expand Poole Dorset? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
James Regan + 1,776 April 26, 2020 (edited) On 4/26/2020 at 1:59 AM, Douglas Buckland said: So YOUR special forces do recon for OUR special forces....where did you find this little factoid? I see you totally ignored your boys from Poole..... Expand After Operation Anaconda where help was refused it became common place in the ME, the British SAS had more middle eastern experience the the USA. You know these factoids are only available for special clearance, I would have to kill you if I told you..... Without Googling it I assume by Poole your referring to the SBS, if so (as I haven't googled it) the SBS are not based in Poole, Dorset, they come from far far North. Edited April 26, 2020 by James Regan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douglas Buckland + 6,308 April 26, 2020 On 4/26/2020 at 3:53 AM, James Regan said: Poole Dorset? Expand The SBS numbnuts! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douglas Buckland + 6,308 April 26, 2020 On 4/26/2020 at 3:57 AM, James Regan said: After Operation Anaconda where help was refused it became common place in the ME, the British SAS had more middle eastern experience the the USA. You know these factoids are only available for special clearance, I would have to kill you if I told you..... Expand You can kill me AFTER we get that 292 running... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
James Regan + 1,776 April 26, 2020 On 4/26/2020 at 4:00 AM, Douglas Buckland said: The SBS numbnuts! Expand Try Abroath Scotland, Number-nuts😂 That word doesn't exist Number Nuts hauhauhau Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites