China declared war on the US in May 2019. Covid19 is part of that war

[TooSteep + 142]

16 hours ago, Marcin2 said:

Due to Trump policies all the power of the Chinese state was mobilized to get rid of all the Chinese reliance on the United States. That is why they want to be completely self-sufficient in every crucial technology and product. Remember it is dictatorship and they can throw as many resources as they wish at this task and citizens cannot complain cause their social score would be harmed.

 

Nothing will stop them until they finish.

 

Even if you are correct, and they become fully self-sufficient in all things industrial and STEM, they still have 2 problems: oil and food.

I cannot see any way that China becomes self sufficient in food. I suppose if the South China Sea turns out to be full of oil, they could become energy self-sufficient? 

Since this thread has morphed into a discussion of the future, I thought I would bring up the topic of the dual currency system and Chinese ownership of western assets. It's a substantial topic, so I have given it a thread:

If you have thoughts or ideas on this, please head over, read and comment.

[Hotone + 412]

16 hours ago, 0R0 said:

 They would be far better off developing things on their own, but have little experience doing so.

I don't expect that they have the resources nor the will to deprive their people for the long stretch that it will take.   It is just too big a project. 

I was just watching this documentary a few days ago.  It seems like if you want to invent any new technology hardware, you have to go to Shenzhen.  There is almost no other option.

These days, while under lockdown in my country, I am checking to see how life is returning to normal in China.  I just  watched some vloggers talk about the huge scale of demand in China. This was recorded about 3 to 4 weeks back.

 

Edited April 18, 2020 by Hotone

[El Nikko + 2,145]

22 hours ago, Marcin2 said:

So what you are trying to say is that once US Navy leaves Pacific the hell would break loose!

So first Japan, China, South Korea, the largest trading partners of one another, instead of happily trading in electronic, fish and cars and having millions of personal contacts with each other would suddenly start the naval war.

500 major naval combatants of the upper mentioned countries would leave their ports and start fighting and because China has also nuclear weapons it would end as nuclear winter.

Or maybe they would wait 10 more days until another 200 major naval combatants of European countries would arrive and only then start the games.

No 0R0 East Asia and Europe would be business as usual.

I mean I am not British, but could ask @Rob Plant, would Royal Navy and Britain engage in naval and later nuclear war in Pacific cause US would be out in its hemispehre and not policing you  ?

Countries that have no dependency on one another don't tend to go to war with each other.

It was thought almost impossible for the European countries which relied on each other for trade etc to have been at war only years before WW1 began.

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

24 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

And my profile picture seems to have changed.  Weird.

I was going to ask you about that.....

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

25 minutes ago, TooSteep said:

Even if you are correct, and they become fully self-sufficient in all things industrial and STEM, they still have 2 problems: oil and food.

I cannot see any way that China becomes self sufficient in food. I suppose if the South China Sea turns out to be full of oil, they could become energy self-sufficient? 

Some readers will now understand the earlier comments about the nuclear option!  Less food required.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

3 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

I was going to ask you about that.....

I'm using my phone right now, so can't change my profile picture back.  How it got changed to a coronavirus ad is beyond me.  Kind of amusing though.

[El Nikko + 2,145]

2 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

I'm using my phone right now, so can't change my profile picture back.  How it got changed to a coronavirus ad is beyond me.  Kind of amusing though.

What have you been up to, spreading some memes? 😂

My facebook account got suspended the other day because I was using an alias, they wanted me to verify who I was which wasn't going to happen so a few weeks later poof! If I send a message to someone they can read it for an hour or two and then vanishes lol

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

Changed my profile picture back.  Seemed to be some kind of ad to donate to coronavirus.  Weird.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

Just now, El Nikko said:

What have you been up to, spreading some memes? 😂

My facebook account got suspended the other day because I was using an alias, they wanted me to verify who I was which wasn't going to happen so a few weeks later poof! If I send a message to someone they can read it for an hour or two and then vanishes lol

Since I don't use facebook, can't really comment.  Except to mention that facebook is a huge datamining app.  Your data is the product that is sold.

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

18 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

I'm using my phone right now, so can't change my profile picture back.  How it got changed to a coronavirus ad is beyond me.  Kind of amusing though.

Well, you're going to love what was in the news up in my neck of the woods today (your old neighborhood; still Douglas').  The General has become Asia's Bernie!  Read some of the comments if you have time.  The most obvious ones are along the lines of "why doesn't he just cancel the submarine order from China?  That will free up over a trillion Baht."

Prayut appeals to the 20 richest Thais for help

Edited April 18, 2020 by Dan Warnick

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

4 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

Well, you're going to love what was in the news up in my neck of the woods today (your old neighborhood; still Doublas').  The General has become Asia's Bernie!  Read some of the comments if you have time.  The most obvious ones are along the lines of "why doesn't he just cancel the submarine order from China?  That will free up over a trillion Baht."

Prayut appeals to the 20 richest Thais for help

But  but  but  that submarine order will ensure national safety ....

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

Just now, Tom Kirkman said:

But  but  but  that submarine order will ensure national safety ....

More like ensure the coffers of the 1,190 generals!

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

Little known facts about Kim Jong Un:

1.  Huge fan of the Beatles.

Note:  A series of newly surfaced photos recently caused a flurry on social media as they appeared to show an actual North Korean midget submarine in the hands of the U.S. Navy. In fact, the submarine was a target built for torpedo practice, but it was towed off the coast of California where it was sunk.

Thailand's submarine on maneuvers :

[0R0 + 6,251]

1 hour ago, Hotone said:

I was just watching this documentary a few days ago.  It seems like if you want to invent any new technology hardware, you have to go to Shenzhen.  There is almost no other option.

These days, while under lockdown in my country, I am checking to see how life is returning to normal in China.  I just  watched some vloggers talk about the huge scale of demand in China. This was recorded about 3 to 4 weeks back.

 

Yes, China is tremendous on that. Shenzhen's parts market gets you anything you can imagine in minutes, cuts development time and allows fast development such that you can't do in other locations even in Silicon Valley. Many parts can be customized for you locally in Guangzhou. It is the heart of the hardware industry globally. It is the center of the hardware ecosystem. Thousands of small companies with facilities in the region feed the market. It is China's private economy at its finest. 

That is not unreproducible elsewhere, it just wouldn't be till there is a very good reason to do so. Now there is, and pressure is mounting to move the production sources offshore from China. Plants are moving, and have been for some years. More and more of what is stacked in the stalls of the Shenzhen parts market is inventory imported from SE Asia Germany and the US. But most of it is still made locally. In the US, parts wholesalers use online catalogs to provide a similar but slower availability of the same parts. A large problem for them is financing inventory since the limitations of Dodd Frank on bank capital ratios.. Which means that banks can't allocate capital to their clients as necessary, but only as far as the regulators let them. 

The electronic parts industry is coming partially back to NAFTA because of the cheap materials. Some resins already cost 1/3 as much as they do in China. And they meet spec. as a matter of routine, not special favor. To some extent because SOE chemical companies in China have consolidated monopolies and are inefficient on top of having higher costs of raw materials. 

The terrific Shenzhen tech hardware hub is not going to be that unique in a few years unless China is massively successful in producing high quality energy and materials from its own  yard and brings in more workers into the region (which simply don't exist). They are trying. Can't say whether it will happen, as they had been trying for a very long time. But relying on the network effect created in Shenzhen due to the regional parts supply chain being so concentrated is not enough to maintain it. As soon as similar efficiencies can be obtained in Europe, other SE Asian hubs like Malaysia, or in the US, the hardware developers will leave.  

We need to remember that this didn't spring out of some CCP planning desk. It was a natural development due to cheap labor and thus low cost parts production. The way they meet spec is to sort by hand each part. Not by fine tuning the machine operation and materials quality coming in to optimize for the target spec.. The lack of productivity is shocking to a Western, Japanese or Taiwanese visitor. This has the odd effect of producing parts of intermediate values off standard cheaply (as a byproduct or "waste") rather than as an expensive specialty item in Western production. The migrant labor pool that made this possible is shrinking, slowly so far, but more rapidly going forward. Not just because of low birth rates, but because of a loss of agricultural productivity gains for 6 years along with additional problems of swine fever and bird flu and green rot  that are ravaging farms. The country can't afford to take any more people out of the countryside without losing food output. The chemical inputs load per unit output of grain in Chinese agriculture is 4X that of Western farming. That means depleted soils, contaminated aquifers, and no increased ag productivity. 

To put it in simple terms, the Shenzhen parts market is a thing of wonder, but it is also a thing of the past. What made it happen is disappearing. The experts in precision manufacturing (Taiwan, Japan, US, Germany) are not going into China to expand. They are going elsewhere in the region and to Mexico and E Europe. Now they are pulling out of existing operations to boot. 

 

[specinho + 440]

On 4/15/2020 at 4:53 PM, Marcin2 said:

The real „war” in technology and economic area started in May 2018 when ZTE was sanctioned.

THEN and only then they will stop using US dollar and attack US with Chinese economic sanctions.

Would like to give a summary of what might be going on.....

1. Someone owed US a lot of money because of wars. In addition, because of US crippling Japan military capacity with nuke, the alliances lost the war.

2. Since then, US has to keep paying to keep  dogshits of others off the coast....... (while they can just be flushed out by the tides)......

3. Chinese have been successful in their own ways in many areas. They might have started off copying like everyone else, but, unawared by many, they might have become more advance in certain things they accused of copying . Some creations plagiarized and claimed by others as pioneers. The latest trend is counter copy of what they are doing....  Intimidated, a few are trying to tarnish the image of Chinese by slandering; use india and indians to rise at top posts in major organizations of the world despite disappointing performance ( good English, easier to be controlled and purchased off). Equal opportunity runs askewed...... Some Indians have become despicable aligning to this campaign....so are malays, some chinese and other races for their respective agenda (some people's lives are built, some ruined,  in this game of race, of sovereignty, of power, of money, of  influence, of control .....)

5. This chaos, we can escalate it, so that we can destroy and rebuild to stimulate sluggish economy. Or, we can play the best diplomatic game of all time "no response is a good response".... Flush and refresh. Or, drag and static....

 

On 4/17/2020 at 9:21 PM, M_Ali said:

The Texan Attorney filing for a $20 Trillion law suit against CCP.......laughable indeed in the face of US national Debt of over $23 Trillion, a large chunk of which is owed to CCP;

Thanks for the conspiracy theories. If they are true, the attorney might face a counter - sue lawsuit from China for defamation?

[SUZNV + 1,197]

Many manufacturing owners in China are under pressure from CCP to reopen their factories without any oversea orders + CCTV recently reports fire from factories. People are guessing that they burn their factories for insurance faults.

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

On 4/17/2020 at 1:11 PM, M_Ali said:

Your blunt nonsensical cowboy response is Full of Beer, your presumption is ill founded.

Alcohol infused dogmatism is no substitute for rationalism. 

Cheers, 

 

 

Wondered when we'd hear from you again @remake it

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

On 4/17/2020 at 2:17 PM, M_Ali said:

Evidently you weren't paying attention to political misconceptions pointed out in my first comment when you were sober and I quoted the original famous anti CCP populist sentiment as expressed by the famous cowboy John Wayne! now that you are full of beer your are fully exempt.

Cheers,

Run on sentence? Check

No punctuation? Check

Odd linguistic choices? Check

The bot is back with a new/old name

[frankfurter + 562]

The art of propaganda is determining the story line firstly, then deciding how make it plausible, then selecting facts narrowly from a broader realm, then combining them with the lies needed for the story line, and feeding this to an ignorant population wanting to believe the story. This vid is certainly a masterful creation: no doubt Goebbels would be impressed.

No sense to point out the lies, for objectively that would need hundreds of pages. As an expedient, we can consider certain facts omitted from the story.

Renowned scientists, under the auspice of Cambridge, have concluded the covid19 has 3 genomes [sequences], which they label as Types A, B, C.  Type C can be developed ONLY from Type B.  Type B only from Type A.  Based upon the research, Type C is predominant in Europe; Type B is predominant in China and eastern Asia; Type A is predominant in USA.  Thus, Type A came FIRST. 

Has China any Type A cases? Yes. To date, 5 cases.  Why is this relevant?  ALL Type A cases are white Americans. No Type A cases are Chinese. When were these Americans present in China? Before the outbreak. Where? Wuhan.  Why were/are they present? Expats. Is China investigating this further? Yes.

From this research alone, we can deduce the virus was brought to China. Very many other factors indicate this, too.

Recently, and now famously, a US carrier crew became infected with the virus. Additionally, a submarine crew became infected.  Both vessels can be at sea for very long periods. When did they put to sea?  Where were the ports of call, if any? Which virus type infected the crew: A or B?  The navy has hushed these stories. Why? Obviously, they would prove the vessels were at sea before the outbreak and the virus type is A. 

Add to the above, we have many scientists in many countries now asserting the covid must have started long before December 2019, going back likely to August 2019, when an unusual spike in flus and pneumonias began. Italy wants to begin exhumation of certain graves and many countries want to examine historical records and samples. Who opposes this?  Only one country, the USA.  Why?  

The covid cases now in the USA are over 600k. To identify cases, testing must be done. Notice how the media omits to report which types and which patients. Why?

People who believe the vid do so because they want to believe.  But the fact is Type B comes from Type A, only.  The USA is predominantly Type A.  ponder that, deeply.

The USA was warned and had 2 months to prepare. Yet, did nothing. Ponder that, deeply. The USA is considered the most wealthy, has some of the world's top scientists, physicians, surgeons, the CDC, etc, etc. Yet did nothing. Why? 

If you cannot see how the 'management' sic of this crisis fits into the general picture forming over the past 50 years, you are blind. This crisis is deliberate.  Covid19 is better labelled COVID-1984.

 

[Marcin2 + 724]

1 hour ago, frankfurter said:

The art of propaganda is determining the story line firstly, then deciding how make it plausible, then selecting facts narrowly from a broader realm, then combining them with the lies needed for the story line, and feeding this to an ignorant population wanting to believe the story. This vid is certainly a masterful creation: no doubt Goebbels would be impressed.

No sense to point out the lies, for objectively that would need hundreds of pages. As an expedient, we can consider certain facts omitted from the story.

Renowned scientists, under the auspice of Cambridge, have concluded the covid19 has 3 genomes [sequences], which they label as Types A, B, C.  Type C can be developed ONLY from Type B.  Type B only from Type A.  Based upon the research, Type C is predominant in Europe; Type B is predominant in China and eastern Asia; Type A is predominant in USA.  Thus, Type A came FIRST. 

Has China any Type A cases? Yes. To date, 5 cases.  Why is this relevant?  ALL Type A cases are white Americans. No Type A cases are Chinese. When were these Americans present in China? Before the outbreak. Where? Wuhan.  Why were/are they present? Expats. Is China investigating this further? Yes.

From this research alone, we can deduce the virus was brought to China. Very many other factors indicate this, too.

Recently, and now famously, a US carrier crew became infected with the virus. Additionally, a submarine crew became infected.  Both vessels can be at sea for very long periods. When did they put to sea?  Where were the ports of call, if any? Which virus type infected the crew: A or B?  The navy has hushed these stories. Why? Obviously, they would prove the vessels were at sea before the outbreak and the virus type is A. 

Add to the above, we have many scientists in many countries now asserting the covid must have started long before December 2019, going back likely to August 2019, when an unusual spike in flus and pneumonias began. Italy wants to begin exhumation of certain graves and many countries want to examine historical records and samples. Who opposes this?  Only one country, the USA.  Why?  

The covid cases now in the USA are over 600k. To identify cases, testing must be done. Notice how the media omits to report which types and which patients. Why?

People who believe the vid do so because they want to believe.  But the fact is Type B comes from Type A, only.  The USA is predominantly Type A.  ponder that, deeply.

The USA was warned and had 2 months to prepare. Yet, did nothing. Ponder that, deeply. The USA is considered the most wealthy, has some of the world's top scientists, physicians, surgeons, the CDC, etc, etc. Yet did nothing. Why? 

If you cannot see how the 'management' sic of this crisis fits into the general picture forming over the past 50 years, you are blind. This crisis is deliberate.  Covid19 is better labelled COVID-1984.

 

Personally I do not believe this story, cause it would surface in medical journals (US, Chinese or third parties ) and it did not.

But this place is open for any argumentation and discussion and if your story proves right it would have very significant impact.

What I would do is to start a new thread with credible links and description to DOCUMENT your story.

This often done here by many people ( also myself ) If they want to share some ideas with others or  look for expetise in specific topic.

Personally I think that reverse conspiracy theory, although also crazy is more probable: China deliberately infecting their population to spread the virus globally with the prime target being US. CoVID19 is a fantastic Opportunity for Chinese development, we do not know yet but it can have better potential for self destructive US decisions than 9/11 or 2007-2009 crisis.

Look: Congress and FED did more harm to US economy with last month actions than in first year of 2008-2009 crisis.

Edited April 19, 2020 by Marcin2
Typo

[Marcin2 + 724]

If it goes the downward spiral I observe: at the moment a lot of connected people are issuing bonds and other financial instruments out of thin air, with the insider knowledge that FED will buy them in a few months.

Total madness, just give Americans a rope to go out of the hole they will hang themselves, give them water when thirsty they would manage to drown themselves in it.

[0R0 + 6,251]

1 hour ago, frankfurter said:

The art of propaganda is determining the story line firstly, then deciding how make it plausible, then selecting facts narrowly from a broader realm, then combining them with the lies needed for the story line, and feeding this to an ignorant population wanting to believe the story. This vid is certainly a masterful creation: no doubt Goebbels would be impressed.

No sense to point out the lies, for objectively that would need hundreds of pages. As an expedient, we can consider certain facts omitted from the story.

Renowned scientists, under the auspice of Cambridge, have concluded the covid19 has 3 genomes [sequences], which they label as Types A, B, C.  Type C can be developed ONLY from Type B.  Type B only from Type A.  Based upon the research, Type C is predominant in Europe; Type B is predominant in China and eastern Asia; Type A is predominant in USA.  Thus, Type A came FIRST. 

Has China any Type A cases? Yes. To date, 5 cases.  Why is this relevant?  ALL Type A cases are white Americans. No Type A cases are Chinese. When were these Americans present in China? Before the outbreak. Where? Wuhan.  Why were/are they present? Expats. Is China investigating this further? Yes.

From this research alone, we can deduce the virus was brought to China. Very many other factors indicate this, too.

Recently, and now famously, a US carrier crew became infected with the virus. Additionally, a submarine crew became infected.  Both vessels can be at sea for very long periods. When did they put to sea?  Where were the ports of call, if any? Which virus type infected the crew: A or B?  The navy has hushed these stories. Why? Obviously, they would prove the vessels were at sea before the outbreak and the virus type is A. 

Add to the above, we have many scientists in many countries now asserting the covid must have started long before December 2019, going back likely to August 2019, when an unusual spike in flus and pneumonias began. Italy wants to begin exhumation of certain graves and many countries want to examine historical records and samples. Who opposes this?  Only one country, the USA.  Why?  

The covid cases now in the USA are over 600k. To identify cases, testing must be done. Notice how the media omits to report which types and which patients. Why?

People who believe the vid do so because they want to believe.  But the fact is Type B comes from Type A, only.  The USA is predominantly Type A.  ponder that, deeply.

The USA was warned and had 2 months to prepare. Yet, did nothing. Ponder that, deeply. The USA is considered the most wealthy, has some of the world's top scientists, physicians, surgeons, the CDC, etc, etc. Yet did nothing. Why? 

If you cannot see how the 'management' sic of this crisis fits into the general picture forming over the past 50 years, you are blind. This crisis is deliberate.  Covid19 is better labelled COVID-1984.

 

References.

Your word is not considered fact.

The evolution of the virus bears little relationship to its distribution. It is so highly contagious, any version will take off in short order. As to determining the evolutionary path, you can't just do it from structure and gene sequence. You need to actually have a timeline of samples. Otherwise it is more conjecture than fact. As  Dr Luc Montagnier points out, the virus is artificial and tends to lose its artificial "add on" components as it spreads and mutates. 

As to having motives, I very much doubt anyone has a motive for the release of this virus. It would not have been a deliberate act. 

There could have been a much better reaction in the West, but the experts were all trying to get information from China, so could not advise leaders because the CCP covered up everything, gave no samples and lied about every aspect of the virus behavior. 

By the time the facts that the CCP had denied were revealed, it was too late. This is entirely on China.

Until you show a set of relevant references I consider this a lie, just another of many coming out of the CCP.

Edited April 19, 2020 by 0R0

[Marcin2 + 724]

22 minutes ago, 0R0 said:

 

As to having motives, I very much doubt anyone has a motive for the release of this virus. It would not have been a deliberate act. 

Why not ? Motive is obvious :Covid18 has not stopped Chinese R&D and high tech industry was hardly affected if at all.

Whole East Asia is back at work ( industry).

Now think about anybody pursuing change of high tech supply chains out of China now.

Must be mad, cause East Asia is the most economically stable place in the world now.

Any new sanctions on Huawei or other Chinese companies ?

They would already be implemented in February, but were indefinitely postponed.

Covid19  ? The epidemic would last in US at least till autumn, it is just observation , US is federalist so one After another hot spots of epidemic would appear in chaotic manner. Till beginning of May 2020 Texas will open up, and in June - July the  would surpass New York in casualties and people from the other 40 States would go under more strict lockdown again.

It would be never ending story until elections.

 

[0R0 + 6,251]

Looked a bit at an article about the work from the Oxford researchers. 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/04/200409085644.htm

https://www.fluxus-technology.com/cov2020.htm

Has the raw tracing. 

The base case for their tracing is that the origin is a jump from bat to human so that Type A is the "original" as it most closely resembles a known bat coronavirus genome. 

That is an assumption. Not a fact.    An unlikely assumption.

By  Dr Luc Montagnier's analysis, as from the Indian analysis we discussed here,  the CV19 virus is genetically engineered with molecular editing tools, so it would revert towards its "original" form, shedding its add on recombinant elements along with new mutations as it spreads. Thus the more further removed generations of mutation would be more like the "unmolested" bat coronavirus they would be, not less similar. 

https://www.gilmorehealth.com/chinese-coronavirus-is-a-man-made-virus-according-to-luc-montagnier-the-man-who-discovered-hiv/

The assumptions are key. But there is not enough discussion in the body of the content I saw so far. 

Here is the map

https://www.fluxus-technology.com/cov2020_england.htm

The map traces to the US variants directly off the unknown original with no sample - thus the entire early US and Australia tree is indicating that the virus spread from a certain early exposure event in the US timeline.

As we can see from the temperature charts, the departure from an ordinary flu season starts on Mar 1 in NYC, where the epidemic appears most advanced. Bronx is the most badly hit of the NYC boroughs. 

The earliest case identified in the US was from the Seattle area

The timing of the breakout shows it had a definite starting point in time with "critical mass" at 2.29 to 3.1

Where there were other flu breakouts in the US prior to this date is in the Midwest where CV19 never progressed to infect a large portion of the people, with as few as tens per million.

The notion of this being connected as @frankenfurter suggests is not realistic. The timing of the outbreak is substantially later than it was in Wuhan 

There is no genetic pathway showing a direction of the Type A being the origin of the other Types. B and C. The evolution appears quite separate. The only directional information is the researcher's presumption. Which I don't believe is likely

 

 

[0R0 + 6,251]

42 minutes ago, Marcin2 said:

Why not ? Motive is obvious :Covid18 has not stopped Chinese R&D and high tech industry was hardly affected if at all.

Whole East Asia is back at work ( industry).

Now think about anybody pursuing change of high tech supply chains out of China now.

Must be mad, cause East Asia is the most economically stable place in the world now.

Any new sanctions on Huawei or other Chinese companies ?

They would already be implemented in February, but were indefinitely postponed.

Covid19  ? The epidemic would last in US at least till autumn, it is just observation , US is federalist so one After another hot spots of epidemic would appear in chaotic manner. Till beginning of May 2020 Texas will open up, and in June - July the  would surpass New York in casualties and people from the other 40 States would go under more strict lockdown again.

It would be never ending story until elections.

 

I share your viewpoint as to why China would do its best to spread the virus out of the country and to everywhere else. 

I don't see so much of a motive to release it in the first place.