Tom Kirkman

Coronavirus hype biggest political hoax in history

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The main problem is the fading of one empire and the rise of a new one.Time after time from eygpt  to greece to Rome to Britain etc  comes a the man who will make us great again,Hanker back to the apple pie sixties all you want but the world has moved on.Covid is an example of  some thing a splintered inward looking state by state pay check to pay check chaotic system can not handle.Its shown Europe its time to cut the US cord from the dollar when a reality tv star is in charge.Covid is a hoax?,china,uk,france,Italy, spain making it all up?.Let's hope we are better prepared next time because it could happen tommorow. 

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10 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

This should cheer you up.  News reporter gets an earful from people pissed off at the MSM panic mongering and lockdowns.

https://twitter.com/KevinVesey/status/1261001977598808065

 

I’m guess that those folks represent mainstream America.

While I was just waiting for an elevator here in KL, I was the only moron with a mask! Everybody else thought this whole lockdown/mask stuff was BS.

Actually, I do too....Believe it or not I was actually trying to follow the rules and be PC for once.

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3 minutes ago, Chris Keeling said:

The main problem is the fading of one empire and the rise of a new one.Time after time from eygpt  to greece to Rome to Britain etc  comes a the man who will make us great again,Hanker back to the apple pie sixties all you want but the world has moved on.Covid is an example of  some thing a splintered inward looking state by state pay check to pay check chaotic system can not handle.Its shown Europe its time to cut the US cord from the dollar when a reality tv star is in charge.Covid is a hoax?,china,uk,france,Italy, spain making it all up?.Let's hope we are better prepared next time because it could happen tommorow. 

It WILL happen ‚Äėtomorrow‚Äô! Locking down prevents immunity....what do you think will happen when these lockdowns are relaxed?

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You cannot shut the world down because of covid,you cannot open the world up because of covid,you have to hit the sweet spot.But there comes a time when to much democracy bites it's own tail.state by state is crazy.You have to have central control by experienced politicians and medics.Yes politicians are bums but they have the experience unlike some one who swing like an out of control pendulum.Men with guns on the state legislature steps ?=democracy.Only in the US.Its got to be herd immunity in the end but managed by central government 

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40 minutes ago, Chris Keeling said:

You cannot shut the world down because of covid,you cannot open the world up because of covid,you have to hit the sweet spot.But there comes a time when to much democracy bites it's own tail.state by state is crazy.You have to have central control by experienced politicians and medics.Yes politicians are bums but they have the experience unlike some one who swing like an out of control pendulum.Men with guns on the state legislature steps ?=democracy.Only in the US.Its got to be herd immunity in the end but managed by central government 

Why central government? It is not how the US is set up. I tend to think that many of the most vocal governors are idiots with no common sense or experience, but the people got who they elected.

These governors mock Trump and the Feds mercilessly....right up to the point that they realize that they are out of their league, have screwed up by the numbers while trying to generate political capital, and now cry for federal assistance...oh yeah, and more federal money.

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(edited)

20 hours ago, 0R0 said:

Thanks for the information. Very useful.

I do want to point out Sweden because it is a worst case scenario for inactivity to contain CV19 propagation. I was not aware that their prevalence studies ended up that low. Their initial numbers for Stockholm were far higher than 7.5%. Which would have been in step with Copenhagen. It is Stockholm that would be where you need to have higher prevalence to get to effective (as opposed to theoretical) herd immunity. 

The basic epidemiologic model is trying to stick a totally irrelevant homogeneous population dynamic while reality is a very narrow layer of high transmission population and a demographic of chunks with little transmission between them. In my own view into correlating transmission with age, the busting of the children as vectors story leaves you with orgy level transmission by young adults in bars, parties and raves. 

The failure to protect the elderly seems to be the major problem in Italian style spreading of the disease to the most vulnerable by stuffing nursing homes with the infected. And by failure of nursing home staff to follow basic hygiene procedures. In going over better numbers in the rest of the Norse countries (and Finland) I am surprised by the differential to Sweden because of how little they did compared to the totally insane level of lockdown in the UK and US France Italy and Spain. 

I don't think the other Norse countries achieved anything with the distancing requirement. I suspect they had far better protocols for protecting the elderly. The crowding of people in close proximity increases chances of having a high transmission rate of high initial dose cases where the likelihood of illness is high (someone coughing in your face).  But most transmission in crowds is not direct, it is from prolonged exposure to aerosollized virus in stagnant air in an enclosed space such as a subway, a call center room or a closely spaced production line or packed elevator. That is why the high risk group should be using N95 masks, while everyone else, to the little extent it matters, should be using surgical type masks to prevent spreading your virus and protect you from high initial loadings upon infection. 

Ventilation is the main reason you drop seasonal respiratory infections in the hot months. You can accomplish this with high circulation filtration for enclosed spaces. But that had always been rejected by operators of office space and retail spaces. 

Meat packing is a migrant labor dorm problem, only half is the work conditions where handling large carcasses requires close physical proximity.    

I used economic estimates made from traffic congestion and electric consumption data as I did myself when looking at China. I don't recall the specific source. It was showing a larger value because of the under accounting for the work from home crowd. The estimates from the ECB are quarterly and use lagging data so the numbers are not going to be reflective of current activity as it overlaps Q1 and Q2. The ECB would thus be missing 2/3 of the decline relative to monthly estimates, besides being far more optimistic than those basic economic measures suggest they should be even if you account for work from home. 

 

Thanks for the response.

I can see some potential pitfalls in considering Sweden as a worst case scenario indicator for inaction. FIrstly, they haven't done nothing. The government response could almost be considered inaction if you were cynical, but on top of just issuing some advice they did push through parliament a ban on gatherings over 50 and closed colleges and universities (i.e. for over 16s). I'm not sure the rationale behind that as they'll all be mingling in the still open bars anyway, so why keep them out of school? But anyway, more significantly the Swedes themselves largely complied with advice and then some. Reports of up to 70% reduction in Stockholm mass transit, businesses down up to 50% (cafes, etc) in places, and around 50% of young kids at home despite kindergartens being open, etc etc.

Secondly they have literally just one place you could even begin to call densely populated, elsewhere pretty sparse, over 50% of households single occupancy, high rate of work from home anyway, yet despite that still have deaths per capita 35% higher than the US - quite an achievement!

With that in mind I dont think Sweden necessarily can be extrapolated to many other countries. I think that if the UK or US, for example, with less trust/compliance towards government guidelines, denser populations, less ability to work from home, etc, had gone the way of Sweden things could be far worse than they already are.

Im not so sure about Denmark or Finland, but Norway has a very close age distribution of deaths to Sweden, and in fact an even higher proportion of deaths in 'institutions' compared to hospitals. I think differing definitions of what constitutes an elderly care institution vs a hospital could be at play possibly, but I think no, Norway hasn't really protected the elderly in care homes significantly better than Sweden. Numbers are just dramatically lower right across the board. So with most other factors, social, demographic, cultural, being pretty much the same, I dont see any other reason for the vast differential between Norway and Sweden than Norway's moderately more comprehensive social distancing measures.

Sweden only banned gatherings over 50 people and closed school for over 16s. Everything else was advisory. To give more detail than I did above, Norway banned gatherings over 5 people, closed all schools and childcare and also banned large cultural and sporting events. Businesses that couldn't operate with a 1m distance were closed - this meant hairdressers, physical therapists, night clubs, gyms, swimming pools and some more. Bars and restaurants could stay open if they served food (which seemed a bit mean for drinks only bars unless peanuts counted, of that I'm not sure) and had only seated patrons with 1m between tables. So significantly more restrictive than Sweden, and must be what accounts for the vast difference in cases/deaths, but indeed nowhere near as insane as UK/USA. People here generally havent been that pissed off - we can go out, see people, have a drink, etc. Not impacted me much personally, but I can see it must have been worse for younger people who rely on nightlife/socialising, and those doing team sports.

I'm sure you have good backup for the statement that children as a vector has been busted, but if you posted it I must have missed it. From my point of view looking at Sweden and Norway I'm not so convinced. Several reported mini outbreak clusters in Norway since reopening have been around kindergartens and schools. Additionally children being at home was one of the main differences compared with Sweden, so I feel it is likely a factor in the overall difference in stats in Scandinavia. Also, children generally are effective spreaders with other viruses. But could well be dominated by the busy bars and clubs and close contact services.

Still, many will get to try the Sweden approach very soon I believe. The insane lockdowns in Europe and US need to end as the people subject to them can't bear any more. In most cases they were enacted too late to be effective and have lasted too long - cost to benefit ratio a joke. So many countries will be opening up to a Sweden like situation - living with the virus with minimal restrictions, recommendations, and social responsibility. We'll see how it goes. I hope the damage has already been done in hard hit areas so things wont get much worse.

I just think those countries who did a good job getting on top of the virus, S Korea, etc etc, and I'd tentatively add Norway to that list, will have an easier time living with it moving forwards, I remain optimistic it can be kept at bay in those countries with competent testing and contact tracing as seems to be the case so far. Opening of borders and resumption of international travel will be the real test of this strategy. We might find it is indeed impossible to keep it at bay, but then there is still hope of a vaccine or treatment, so getting on top of it and buying time till that occurs still looks like a good strategy. Inaction and charging towards the hope of herd immunity is still a big gamble that might not pay off.

Edited by LiamP
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On 5/13/2020 at 12:10 PM, Dan Warnick said:

D,

I stand by my comments, including to the issues you raise, my words (bear with me a moment, please): 

"@0R0 and others have outlined what the data and the doctors would have us do, and I will not once again (for what, the 9th or 10th time) recite them here.  Suffice it to say, isolate the sick and at-risk and not the healthy."

If you go back and read what 0R0 and others outlined, you will find that they suggest many measures that can and should be taken.

About masks, I have been waiting for a chance to write about the issue.  Since I am not in New York, I spent some time searching for and reading accounts from local New York news feeds about masks.  At first I was looking for "man on the ground" interviews to see what was being said by the citizens of that fine city, instead of either side of the MSM.  If anyone has links to any, I'd love to see them because there was not much to be found when I looked. 

But what I did find was truly disturbing to me.  I found many people of New York were writing about their bad experiences while out and about wearing their masks.  What?  They talked of being cursed at, flipped off, crowded and otherwise insulted FOR WEARING THEIR MASKS!!  Incredible!  There is apparently a divide even when it comes to other people wearing their masks, even when those people are not even asking others to wear them!

One man spoke of keeping his mask in his pocket and joining a social gathering where the folks attending were pre-advised to practice social distancing, and were doing so when he arrived.  However, he saw that everyone was wearing their masks and so he donned his.  That is nothing more than a common courtesy, so why was it even worth talking about?  It was worth talking about because apparently there are people (I hope not too many, but) who take no greater pleasure than to crash such gatherings and flaunting their maskless faces.  That is not how I was raised.

So, D, I get the sensitivities and I would never endorse or go along with any of the above actions.  It is troublesome that people could be so callow and disrespectful.  Not the country I remember.

Dan.

Question is who is sick and who is healthy?  You did not address that question.  Many people are infected and show no symtoms and despite claims by Trump that anyone can be tested, that is flatly false.  Many who would like to be tested cannot be because there is not enough supply of reagents for the tests.

So the principle of social distancing for the vulnerable makes sense, but we do not know who is infected and the disease spreads rapidly especially in large gatherings if a single person is infected.

I agree on the masks, many people have common courtesy, unfortunely there are many who will emulate Trump and refuse to where a mask, even when everyone else is wearing one (to protect Trump).  There are some who lack common courtesy.

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On 5/13/2020 at 4:45 PM, 0R0 said:

The only people who need to be tested are those at high risk and the people they make daily contact with. And they need to be tested regularly. Everybody else doe not need to be tested, does not need to refrain from normal activity and does not need to worry about transmission. You do NOT want transmission to stop, you want it to be sufficiently slow so that you don't get large surges of infection that reach the high risk group. We DO want the active public to have antibodies. We do need cheap commonly available treatments. Remdesivir is not one of them. It is a high cost low effectiveness drug. The medical community is fighting the medical establishment's attempts to quash trials and studies of these treatments and their use. 

Stop relying on the CCP narrative spouted by the Democrats and bureaucrats with scientist and doctor costumes. You can identify the claptrap by the narrative, by the deliberate choice to ignore treatments positive developments and findings and facts, vs. adherence to assured economic destruction as the only choice. 

 

0R0,

 

Lack of social distancing and we get the situation in New York City and Northern Italy, the hospital system quickly becomes overwhelmed when we just let the virus spread.

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4 hours ago, LiamP said:

Still, many will get to try the Sweden approach very soon I believe. The insane lockdowns in Europe and US need to end as the people subject to them can't bear any more. In most cases they were enacted too late to be effective and have lasted too long - cost to benefit ratio a joke. So many countries will be opening up to a Sweden like situation - living with the virus with minimal restrictions, recommendations, and social responsibility. We'll see how it goes. I hope the damage has already been done in hard hit areas so things wont get much worse.

I just think those countries who did a good job getting on top of the virus, S Korea, etc etc, and I'd tentatively add Norway to that list, will have an easier time living with it moving forwards, I remain optimistic it can be kept at bay in those countries with competent testing and contact tracing as seems to be the case so far. Opening of borders and resumption of international travel will be the real test of this strategy. We might find it is indeed impossible to keep it at bay, but then there is still hope of a vaccine or treatment, so getting on top of it and buying time till that occurs still looks like a good strategy. Inaction and charging towards the hope of herd immunity is still a big gamble that might not pay off.

Thanks for your posts LiamP. Anders Tegnell has consistently stated that the goal in Sweden is not herd immunity, but to live with the virus long term. I.e., they want to choose a containment path that is also economically and socially viable long-term.

I personally feel they did a good job with it. Remember, Sweden currently sits at 361 deaths per million, and the majority of those were in long-term care homes, where they have failed. Just two months ago, global health experts panicked politicians by saying there would be 10,000 deaths per million. So from that point of view, at 1/30 the 'projected' rate, shouldn't the doomsayers even be calling Sweden a success?  The vast majority of people will self-adjust their behaviors, and that should be good enough to manage future outbreaks - without the heavy hand of overly broad government enforced restrictions.

Opening of borders and resumption of travel is the big question everywhere. Nobody would be calling for a national strategy in the US if there wasn't free travel between states. There are world class public health teams in many jurisdictions that have done tremendous jobs containing the spread. Opening up borders is the main thing that keeps them up at night.

 

And now to add a little humor to this thread, I found this hilarious:

KoolAid.jpg

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5 hours ago, D Coyne said:

0R0,

 

Lack of social distancing and we get the situation in New York City and Northern Italy, the hospital system quickly becomes overwhelmed when we just let the virus spread.

There are substitutes to social distancing, e.g. masks and gloves. An N95 mask protects the wearer in any degree of crowding. It does nothing to stop you spreading your own virus, for that you need a surgical type mask, that is not going to protect you as well. 

The high transmission conditions are densely packed subways, bars, office tower elevators, office and other enclosed  stagnant air spaces with no air flow ventilation or HEPA filtration. Wherever people are locked into enclosed spaces with each other for whole days, you get high propagation and complete transmission. E.g. open bay prisons, where distancing happens but spread is up to 100% of prisoners and staff.  NYC is rich in those. 

In all other situations, transmission is much lower. Some care to avoid prolonged exposures to large crowds in enclosed spaces without a mask. Not so much in order to avoid infection, but to avoid a large initial viral load. 

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eOxP9V8I.thumb.jpeg.e680fd436778c51b55d1db22d9a4e42a.jpeg

 

t0iIMXKy.thumb.jpeg.35c5b31eca8965d46c0afc862d43f72a.jpeg

 

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5 hours ago, 0R0 said:

There are substitutes to social distancing, e.g. masks and gloves. An N95 mask protects the wearer in any degree of crowding. It does nothing to stop you spreading your own virus, for that you need a surgical type mask, that is not going to protect you as well. 

The high transmission conditions are densely packed subways, bars, office tower elevators, office and other enclosed  stagnant air spaces with no air flow ventilation or HEPA filtration. Wherever people are locked into enclosed spaces with each other for whole days, you get high propagation and complete transmission. E.g. open bay prisons, where distancing happens but spread is up to 100% of prisoners and staff.  NYC is rich in those. 

In all other situations, transmission is much lower. Some care to avoid prolonged exposures to large crowds in enclosed spaces without a mask. Not so much in order to avoid infection, but to avoid a large initial viral load. 

You should copy this and keep it standing by, for folks who just want to respond to the latest post instead of going back and reading all that has been written in previous pages.  Sad and lazy.

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11 hours ago, D Coyne said:

Dan.

Question is who is sick and who is healthy?  You did not address that question.  Many people are infected and show no symtoms and despite claims by Trump that anyone can be tested, that is flatly false.  Many who would like to be tested cannot be because there is not enough supply of reagents for the tests.

So the principle of social distancing for the vulnerable makes sense, but we do not know who is infected and the disease spreads rapidly especially in large gatherings if a single person is infected.

I agree on the masks, many people have common courtesy, unfortunely there are many who will emulate Trump and refuse to where a mask, even when everyone else is wearing one (to protect Trump).  There are some who lack common courtesy.

@0R0 has answered these questions more thank satisfactorily and many times, over and over again.  Read the thread from the beginning or see below, again.

Answering who is healthy, for the nest 10 seconds, is useless.  And people who just WANT to get tested need to be educated by their doctors.  For that we need proper guidance compiled and issued to the doctors from the relevant health agencies.  

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We have learned that people with normally functioning immune systems are not really at risk. Even when they get infected, it does not kill them.

We see that 99% of the deaths were in nursing homes and/or people with other pre-existing conditions.

Former Democrat presidential candidate John Delaney stated, "It is clear this virus disproportionately impacts our seniors and those with preexisting conditions. Consider the fact that 2% of people in nursing homes have died, .035% of people over 65 not in nursing homes have died and .006% of everyone else. This must inform how we reopen."

The truth is moving across the aisle now. CA governor is trying to turn the state into communist China with his threats of martial law.

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We have ‚Äėlearned to live‚Äô with HIV, SARS, MERS, and various other diseases without giving up our freedoms, jobs, rights, etc... We also did it without mandating social distancing, masks and gloves. Why is this ‚Äėdisease‚Äô so drastically different that people willingly seek a ‚Äėnew normal‚Äô?

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(edited)

7 hours ago, Dan Warnick said:

@0R0

And people who just WANT to get tested need to be educated by their doctors.  For that we need proper guidance compiled and issued to the doctors from the relevant health agencies.  

Why? This lady got tested 5 times. You can't be too safe with this virus

 

Edited by Hotone

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We should all be tested, everyday of lockdown, at 6:00am and 6:00pm, just to be sure....you can’t be TOO safe!

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Oh what a total let down

[T]he great majority of people will not die from this and I’ll just repeat something I said right at the beginning because I think it’s worth reinforcing:

Most people, a significant proportion of people, will not get this virus at all, at any point of the epidemic which is going to go on for a long period of time.

Of those who do, some of them will get the virus without even knowing it, they will have the virus with no symptoms at all, asymptomatic carriage, and we know that happens.

Of those who get symptoms, the great majority, probably 80%, will have a mild or moderate disease. Might be bad enough for them to have to go to bed for a few days, not bad enough for them to have to go to the doctor.

An unfortunate minority will have to go as far as hospital, but the majority of those will just need oxygen and will then leave hospital.

And then a minority of those will end up having to go to severe end critical care and some of those sadly will die.

But that’s a minority, it’s 1% or possibly even less than 1% overall.

And even in the highest risk group this is significantly less than 20%, ie. the great majority of people, even the very highest groups, if they catch this virus, will not die.

And I really wanted to make that point really clearly…

 

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Why the summer weather may be cutting coronavirus cases

Public Health England modelling suggests that fewer than 24 people a day are now becoming infected with Covid-19 in London

By Sarah Knapton, Science Editor 16 May 2020 ‚ÄĘ 11:55am
Why the summer weather may be cutting coronavirus cases
Britain had its sunniest April on record with an average of 224.5 hours of sunshine last month Credit: PA

Coronavirus cases have fallen dramatically in recent weeks, particularly in London, where Public Health England (PHE) modelling suggests fewer than 24 people a day are now picking up the virus.

But can all the reduction be due to lockdown measures and social distancing? Or might the onset of summer and the warmer, brighter weather, be helping to suppress the virus?

Here is what we know about the effect of climate, weather, sunshine and Vitamin D on coronavirus:

Latitude

Latest research suggests that coronavirus is following a very specific path around the globe, leaving some countries unscathed, while having a disproportionately devastating impact elsewhere. 

The University of Maryland found that most cases fall along a narrow east-west corridor of 30 and 50 degrees of latitude, which includes northern Italy, the Pacific Northwest, Japan, Iran, South Korea, France, Spain and Germany. All share similar climatic conditions. 

In contrast, areas which were expected to be hardest hit, because of geographical proximity and travel connections to the Chinese outbreak - such as Southeast Asia - have had low infections and deaths compared to those in the ‚Äėcoronavirus belt‚Äô.

Weather records in the hardest hit countries had similar average temperatures of between 5¬įC and 11¬įC¬†and humidity of 47 to 79 per cent, which is close to laboratory conditions in which coronavirus thrives.

None of the temperatures in badly affected cities dipped below 0¬įC during the height of the epidemic, which may suggest a threshold beyond which the virus cannot survive.

The University of Oxford also recently conducted a review into whether climate conditions were playing a role in the transmission of coronavirus, and found that cold and dry conditions appear to boost spread. 

They found that while the global death rate was 0.2 per cent, in the northern hemisphere it was 0.3 per cent and even discovered a gradient relationship in Italy, with the south being less impacted than the north.

Analysis of the previous Sars outbreak in Hong Kong has shown that the number of daily cases was higher on days where the weather was cooler and research has shown that viruses are able to live far longer on surfaces when it is cold.

Warmer weather also leads to less people huddled together indoors, so the virus has less chance to jump from person to person.

Vitamin D

There is growing evidence that Vitamin D is protective against coronavirus and that people with chronically low levels may be at greater risk.

Researchers from the Anglia Ruskin University compared the numbers of coronavirus cases to the average levels of vitamin D for 20 European countries and found a significant correlation.

Italy and Spain have both experienced high mortality rates, and scientists found both countries have lower than average vitamin D levels.

This is partly because people in southern Europe, particularly the elderly, avoid strong sun, while their darker skin pigmentation also reduces the body's ability to produce natural vitamin D.

In contrast, the highest average levels of vitamin D are found in northern Europe, due to high consumption of cod liver oil and vitamin D supplements, and possibly less sun avoidance.

Scandinavian nations are among the countries with the lowest number of Covid-19 cases and mortality rates per head of population in Europe.

Dr Lee Smith, Reader in Physical Activity and Public Health at Anglia Ruskin University, said: “Vitamin D has been shown to protect against acute respiratory infections, and older adults, the group most deficient in vitamin D, are also the ones most seriously affected by Covid-19. 

‚ÄúA previous study found that 75 per cent of people in institutions, such as hospitals and care homes, were severely deficient in vitamin D.‚ÄĚ

Vitamin D modulates the response of white blood cells, preventing them from releasing too many inflammatory cells which may stop the body overreacting to the virus. 

A study by Trinity College Dublin and University of Liverpool published this week also shows that vitamin D appears to help reduce serious complications in coronavirus patients.

It has also been pointed out by experts that black and minority ethnic (BAME) individuals living in northerly latitudes are often deficient in vitamin D which may partly explain the higher death rates in these groups. 

UV Light 

During the Spanish Flu pandemic of 1918, doctors noticed that patients who were nursed outdoors appeared to fare better. 

Sunlight is known to be germicidal and there is growing evidence that it can kill viruses as well. 

Viruses tend to survive better in cold weather because they have a fatty protective coating which degrades when it is warm. While the melting of the coating allows the virus to invade the warmth of the body, it dies if the casing disintegrates outside.

One study by Harvard University showed at 6¬įC¬†in dry weather, flu on a surface survived for more than 23 hours, but at a temperature of 32¬įC¬†it was dying within an hour.¬†

And bright sunlight can quickly heat up surfaces beyond 32¬įC¬†even if the outside air temperature is lower.¬†

Britain experienced the sunniest April on record which has coincided with a substantial fall in new cases. The UK had an average of 224.5 hours of sunshine last month, compared with 211.9 hours in April 2015, the previous highest.

Prof Keith Neal, Emeritus Professor in the Epidemiology of Infectious Diseases, University of Nottingham, said: “Sunlight includes ultraviolet radiation. This damages DNA and RNA.  

‚ÄúI have not seen any work on how quickly this affects Covid-19 but viruses left on surfaces outside will dry out and be damaged by UV light in sunlight.‚ÄĚ

Researcher Dr Richard Hobday, author of the Healing Sun and The Light Revolution, said that during the First World War, military surgeons routinely used sunlight to heal infected wounds.

“Public health advice in the 1918 pandemic was sleep with your bedroom windows open and get out in the fresh air and sunshine. 

‚ÄúHospital patients who were nursed outdoors in tents and put in the sun seem to have recovered far better than those indoors.‚ÄĚ

Earlier this week, Giving evidence at the science and technology select committee, Professor Alan Penn, the chief scientific adviser at the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government said being outdoors will help prevent people from contracting the virus.

‚ÄúThe science suggests that being outside in sunlight, with good ventilation, are both highly protective against transmission of the virus.‚ÄĚ

Ventilation 

Open-air therapy was once a popular treatment for deadly respiratory conditions such as tuberculosis, and patients were regularly put outside to breathe the fresh air until antibiotics became standard in the 1950s.

As early as the 1960s, the Ministry of Defence had shown that outdoor air is a natural disinfectant, able to kill the flu virus and other harmful germs.

Hospital wards were once ‚Äėcross-ventilated‚Äô with large windows to allow fresh air to move freely, but modern hospitals mostly have closed systems and depend on air conditioning for their air supply.

In March, scientists from the National Centre for Infectious Diseases in Singapore found that coronavirus could spread around buildings via air conditioning systems or even on a draught, after discovering traces of the virus in a hospital air duct.

Prof Neal said that fresh air quickly dispersed any droplets of coronavirus that are in the atmosphere.

“Talking and coughing can produce droplets and aerosols. Droplets, which are larger than aerosols, carry more virus but fall rapidly to the ground under gravity. 

“Aerosols are smaller and can drift further but also dry out quickly because they lose water content as they have a high surface area to volume unlike droplets. They are also rapidly dispersed with air movements and we rarely have no air movements outside.

‚ÄúI intend to avail myself of the new recommendations and go fishing and play golf.¬† The risk is miniscule and I think I am more likely to be killed by lightning.‚ÄĚ

Dr Hobday added: “It's far easier to catch a respiratory infection indoors than outside - especially if ventilation rates are low. 

‚ÄúAnd forcing people to stay indoors has prevented them getting out in the sun and building up their vitamin D levels after a long winter.‚Ä̬†

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Imagine that, something we said weeks and weeks ago ūüôĄ

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(edited)

My first hand experience reveals the new virus COVID-19 specifically targets nursing homes. It circulates to the other residents in the nursing homes.  The new virus may or may not be an additive factor in the morbidity or mortality of that resident infected. 
Young healthy individuals are primarily asymptotic or show minimal symptoms.  

Edited by Rd407
Additive
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2 hours ago, Hotone said:

Why? This lady got tested 5 times. You can't be too safe with this virus

 

Are you being serious or facetious? 

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On 5/16/2020 at 9:22 PM, Dan Warnick said:

Are you being serious or facetious? 

My point is that you shouldn't discourage anyone from taking the test.  Here in Malaysia, there is a public questionnaire which can get you free testing if you meet certain criteria. E.g. you have gone to a place where there was an outbreak and you display symptoms.  If you don't meet the criteria, you can go to a number of private hospitals where you can get tested for around 80 US dollars.  If you test positive, the treatment is only available in Public hospitals and it is free.

https://my.healtopedia.com/product-category/services-packages/covid-19-test-1/

Screenshot_2020-05-08-00-00-57-55.png

Our handing of this pandemic so far has impressed overseas experts

https://www.nst.com.my/news/nation/2020/05/589140/chinese-experts-impressed-malaysias-handling-covid-19-nsttv

We have been quite systematic and disciplined in dealing with this pandemic and you can look at our Corona tracker. We only have a daily rate of confirmed cases at 215 people per million population, and this has been trending down.

https://www.coronatracker.com/country/malaysia/

https://www.coronatracker.com/country/united-states/

Edited by Hotone

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