.

[ronwagn + 6,290]

10 hours ago, turbguy said:

Some people are indicating the Texas emergency is the Lord's punishment for electing Cruz and Cornyn.

More like punishment for believing green fairy tales. 

[turbguy + 1,540]

2 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

More like punishment for believing green fairy tales. 

Some people say that as well.

[Old-Ruffneck + 1,239]

3 minutes ago, turbguy said:

Some people say that as well.

Just a re-distribution of wealth via green energy. 

[turbguy + 1,540]

3 hours ago, Old-Ruffneck said:

Dan, he lives just north of Springfield, Illinois. Many Many solar panels and batteries in the neighborhood of 25k to buy and install. That would buy alot of years of electricity in even a modest 2000sq foot home. About 10 years worth of grid electricity. I am north of @ronwagn about 80 miles. Solar must get cheaper to be cost effective...... 

My idea is to build giant boiler system in Yellowstone, all the free boiling water that is unlimited. Green folks no mind eye-polluting West Texas with windmills by the thousand on the mesa's, so let's use Yellowstones massive underground boiler.....

I'd prefer that the Government just sell the naming rights.

Can you imagine:  YELLOWSTONE NATIONAL PARK,   brought to you by Frito-Lay.

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,554]

17 minutes ago, turbguy said:

There are way too many types of "instability" to discuss here (harmonics, oscillations, faults of various types, sudden loss of load, sudden loss of generation, current overloads, transmission line trips).  Wind turbines can provide spinning inertia, voltage support (VARS), frequency support,fault ride-through). They are not very good at being dispatchable. You take whatever they provide.

BTW, Nuc units are not dispatchable (for load), either.

 

Damm I just spent 15 minutes attempting to work thru what your saying, and poof the dam phone/ finger just wiped it all out.

So turbines are quite fragile, the motor part of the system. As to the glass blades that is another story. 

[turbguy + 1,540]

9 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Damm I just spent 15 minutes attempting to work thru what your saying, and poof the dam phone/ finger just wiped it all out.

So turbines are quite fragile, the motor part of the system. As to the glass blades that is another story. 

That reminds me of a true story I heard while working at GE's Evendale, OH aircraft engine plant.   One of the test was to throw a (dead) chicken into the inlet and see what damage occurred.  Rolls Royce performed the same test. The Rolls engines invariably failed catastrophically, while the GE's kept right in running.  A GE test engineer observed one of the Rolls test, then said:

"HEY!  We defrost them, first"!

Edited February 17, 2021 by turbguy

[ronwagn + 6,290]

9 hours ago, Dan Warnick said:

My entire argument is that this is brought on by bad management, or at least management where profit motive overrides the consumer's best interest.  As I said earlier, I don't think anyone is against harnessing wind and solar, but it must be managed, and be affordable.  Otherwise it doesn't matter if you have a nuclear powerplant or a windmill for every 10 square miles.  Yes, Texas appears to have largely failed more broadly than the U.K. when it comes to power management, but the scale, legal systems, and presumably profit management regulations between the countries are also obviously quite different.  But that IS NO EXCUSE.  Texas should be doing better and they should be embarrassed to the point of fixing it.

As for raw dollars/pounds/euros invested, they matter little IF they are improperly managed.  If the U.K. has done a good job managing their power needs, I salute them.  Texas obviously has not.

China has invested mainly in coal plants and importing oil and natural gas. Where is the link to this story. They are the prime laggard in renewables along with India. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

2 hours ago, El Gato said:

The earth has also changed it's "Tilt", with the northern hemisphere getting more light, and the Southern less. Anybody notice the the minimum daylight hours for the year were earlier than the winter solstice this year? And the longer daylight hours started earlier?

BTW the phenomenon of the earth tilt was verified by 7 different esquimaux tribes in Alaska and Canada.

https://news.nau.edu/earth-tilt-climate-change/

[turbguy + 1,540]

6 hours ago, NickW said:

I am aware of the issues around the having enough grid inertia to deal with frequency drops

I'll ask again

Whats the grid operators response to a sustained fall in frequency? 

Two options. 

Increase Generation

if that doesn't work (or isn't available).

Shed load (blackout somebody) by opening a switch or switches.

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,554]

31 minutes ago, turbguy said:

That reminds me of a true story I heard while working at GE's Evendale, OH aircraft engine plant.   One of the test was to throw a (dead) chicken into the inlet and see what damage occurred.  Rolls Royce performed the same test. The Rolls engines invariably failed catastrophically, while the GE's kept right in running.  A GE test engineer observed one of the Rolls test, then said:

"HEY!  We defrost them, first"!

Actually repeated with the 94 ford mustang new body style testing the drag coefficient.Only this time frozen chickens were used.

Commander Brown

SVT Skunk Work's/ Special Ops.

And now the rest of the story

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/catapoultry/

Edited February 17, 2021 by Eyes Wide Open

[Boat + 1,323]

Almost half of Texas’ wind power capacity was forced offline last weekend after Arctic temperatures froze scores of wind turbines, leading some conservative commentators to pin the blame for the state’s widespread power outages squarely on wind energy.

In reality, wind turbine outages have been responsible for less than 13% of Texas’ total power shortages, the nonprofit electric grid overseer Energy Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT) told Bloomberg and local news outlets on Tuesday.

So there you have it. Let the disinformation campaign end. We can go back to blaming coal and nat gas for pollution problems. Now we can throw in coal and nat gas are venerable to ice and snow because they weren’t weatherized. 
Us greenies have been warning you about severe climate changes and how it will continue to get worse. For Texas, add winter storms to the massive floods. 

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,554]

10 minutes ago, Boat said:

Almost half of Texas’ wind power capacity was forced offline last weekend after Arctic temperatures froze scores of wind turbines, leading some conservative commentators to pin the blame for the state’s widespread power outages squarely on wind energy.

In reality, wind turbine outages have been responsible for less than 13% of Texas’ total power shortages, the nonprofit electric grid overseer Energy Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT) told Bloomberg and local news outlets on Tuesday.

So there you have it. Let the disinformation campaign end. We can go back to blaming coal and nat gas for pollution problems. Now we can throw in coal and nat gas are venerable to ice and snow because they weren’t weatherized. 
Us greenies have been warning you about severe climate changes and how it will continue to get worse. For Texas, add winter storms to the massive floods. 

Here ya go Boat, world's greatest source of transportation pollution. Play with the numbers, you will find bunker oil by itself pollutes 4000 times more pollution than all the worlds autos combined.

https://newatlas.com/shipping-pollution/11526/

Big polluters: One massive container ship equals 50 million cars

[Old-Ruffneck + 1,239]

14 minutes ago, Boat said:

Us greenies have been warning you about severe climate changes and how it will continue to get worse. For Texas, add winter storms to the massive floods. 

This same thing happened in 3rd week November 1980 and went as far as Juarez Mexico. Several thousand died from cold. So me thinks your info is useless as tits on a boar-hog.

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

ERCOT not having the best week and @Boat don't believe everything they say

 

 

[Old-Ruffneck + 1,239]

[Boat + 1,323]

55 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Here ya go Boat, world's greatest source of transportation pollution. Play with the numbers, you will find bunker oil by itself pollutes 4000 times more pollution than all the worlds autos combined.

https://newatlas.com/shipping-pollution/11526/

Big polluters: One massive container ship equals 50 million cars

I guess you missed the biggest green news maybe ever. The world is ending bunker fuels. Give yourself a google and see what is happening. This is the NWO at work for the good of mankind. 
 

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKBN1YH1PU

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,554]

35 minutes ago, Boat said:

I guess you missed the biggest green news maybe ever. The world is ending bunker fuels. Give yourself a google and see what is happening. This is the NWO at work for the good of mankind. 
 

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKBN1YH1PU

Interesting there are 6000 full size container ships 

There are 1000 oil tankers

80,000 ship that use bunker oil.

16 container ships produce more pollution than all the world's autos combined. 

Don't hold your great grandsons breath it will be awhile.

In the meantime let's get on those dirty autos, every fraction counts. 

Critical thinking has left the building,or something of that nature.EVs lol

I'd get on line right away and enlighten the world, a list for you to begin with.

https://www.marineinsight.com/know-more/10-largest-container-shipping-companies-in-the-world/

Edited February 17, 2021 by Eyes Wide Open

[Hiten Shah + 22]

On 2/16/2021 at 12:13 AM, RichieRich216 said:

I am willing to bet these Greenies didn’t see this coming! The world needs to pause by all the assholes pushing Green Agenda’s! The world has tens of decades of cheap fossil fuels and I’m quite sure with all of the technology breaking at record speeds they if they desire can use and process it more efficient!

Try to burn fossil fuels under your Asshole, it wont burn

[NickW + 2,714]

Well this is interesting

Are frozen wind turbines to blame for Texas power outages? | The Independent

ERCOT acknowledges that frozen wind turbines have played a role, but that frozen instruments at natural gas, coal and nuclear facilities and a limited supply of natural gas are the main factors.

We’ve had some issues with pretty much every kind of generating capacity in the course of this multi-day event,” said ERCOT’s Dan Woodfin.

Wind shutdowns during the current crisis accounted for 3.6 to 4.5 gigawatts of energy, or less than 13 per cent of the 30 to 35 gigawatts of total outage, Mr Woodfin told Bloomberg.

[Boat + 1,323]

1 hour ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Interesting there are 6000 full size container ships 

There are 1000 oil tankers

80,000 ship that use bunker oil.

16 container ships produce more pollution than all the world's autos combined. 

Don't hold your great grandsons breath it will be awhile.

In the meantime let's get on those dirty autos, every fraction counts. 

Critical thinking has left the building,or something of that nature.EVs lol

I'd get on line right away and enlighten the world, a list for you to begin with.

https://www.marineinsight.com/know-more/10-largest-container-shipping-companies-in-the-world/

Those EV’s are only for the rich. Let me yank you back to reality and away from EV fear. 1/2 of potential customers make $30,000 or less per year in the US. In Germany, China, now India and the US the market is limited. It will take another breakthrough in battery tech to drop prices that will still probably be to high for the average consumer. 
One legit FF killing electric vehical is the Semi. Projections are about 50,000 per year going forward with no further information. So it will take a few years to make a big impact. No news of another factory.

You jump topics like a water bug. But that’s ok, I’m here to give you an alternative to Trumpisms. Let’s keep it real.

[Boat + 1,323]

3 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Here ya go Boat, world's greatest source of transportation pollution. Play with the numbers, you will find bunker oil by itself pollutes 4000 times more pollution than all the worlds autos combined.

https://newatlas.com/shipping-pollution/11526/

Big polluters: One massive container ship equals 50 million cars

So you highlight shipping. So your happy you breath less pollution? Can’t remember the number but like 190 nations sighed on to the green initiative. Even those crazy Chinese and Russians. 
 

Transportation is trending green besides shipping. Coal is dying inspite of Trumpisms saying the opposite. While we’re not going to stop Climate change we will breath a little easier while we wait for some type of calamity to take us out.

 

[NickW + 2,714]

7 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

I'm going to be charitable here and assume you're not an electrical engineer? I am but focused on digital design rather than power distribution (the EE degree is wider than every other major, by far). However I'm reasonably well versed in the subject. The frequency variability on the grid is negligible. Perhaps you meant voltage? 

Im not but I will relay the explanation given to me by someone who until 5 years ago was managing a large part of a grid system comparable in size  to either California or Texas. More critically a system that actually works. He may have course have got it all wrong but then the UK hasn't had rolling power cuts since the early 70's (miners strike) 

This was the laymans explanation given to me.

• Due to a loss of supply / unexpected increase in demand the rotating mass of generating plant on the grid starts to slow .
• This is measured by a reduction in frequency from the normal 50 hertz in UK systems. I assume as you point out this is accompanied by a drop in voltage
• The generating mass attempt to recover this by speeding up (adjust the Governor &more fuel in) 
• However if the frequency continues to fall a trigger point occurs at about 49.7
• large interrruptible loads start to be disconnected from the grid for upto 30 minutes(large cold stores, large HVAC systems, water plants, some metal smelting operations). This is all automated and with contracted agreement by the affected parties. 
• Batteries are also playing an increasing role here in frequency drop / rise response

 

• If frequency continues to fall standing generators start to kick in (Usually stationary gen sets). Those are often at power stations and industrial sites. Mostly contracting in and all automated
• Contracted in short term operator reserve generators kick in. These are usually emergency generators set up on an automated response 
• Pumped Hydro (4GW in total)  kicks in within 2 minutes. Dinorwic goes from 0 to 1860MW in about 90 seconds
• There is about a GW of OCGT on standby which can fire up within a few minutes 
• There is about 2GW of Hydro of which there is normally some available capacity to utilise at short notice
• Beyond that its about getting partially loaded CCGT ramped up, bring cold plant into play and recover to 50 hz and shut down the fast response actions. 

The first 6 steps can occur within a few seconds. 

The next 5 within a couple of minutes.

My firm has 4 500KW gen sets as emergency generators at our data centre that are contracted in on this arrangement. We can also shut down the cooling for up to 30 minutes which takes 700KW of load off the grid. Its all contracted and automated to NG. 

 

Rolling System Frequency | BMRS (bmreports.com)

Reserve services | National Grid ESO

Edited February 17, 2021 by NickW

[NickW + 2,714]

3 hours ago, Old-Ruffneck said:

I look forward to your poster acknowledging the 87% of the outage attributed to failures at coal, gas, and nuclear plant😂

[NickW + 2,714]

4 hours ago, turbguy said:

Two options. 

Increase Generation

if that doesn't work (or isn't available).

Shed load (blackout somebody) by opening a switch or switches.

See my detailed response to Ward a couple of posts back

Edited February 17, 2021 by NickW

[NickW + 2,714]

10 hours ago, ronwagn said:

A lot of those fifties and sixties stucco homes had very little insulation in California, but nobody was going to freeze to death. They were tar paper covered with chicken wire, stucco, and paint. Now they sell for half a million dollars. Hopefully they have had an insulation upgrade. 

If Biden is going to spend $2 trillion of your money fighting climate change one  good approach would be to address this issue whether it be by grants / interest free loans/  tax rebates etc. 

As well as environmental benefits there are also health, social and welfare benefits. I know these seem to be like 'evil socialism' on here. 

Also such a program, rather than enriching the Gates/ Musk / Bezos crowd puts a lot of work Joe Sixpack the builders way and stimulates manufacturing in the US's industrial belts. 

I appreciate the design of these houses is not helpful and there may even be questions about whether its worth renovating such an old building.