GREEN NEW DEAL = BLIZZARD OF LIES

[Eric Gagen + 713]

5 hours ago, ronwagn said:

Modern coal plants are acceptable until renewables are built out. We do not want to go through Europe scale power shortages. We should, in fact, keep them operable in case of extreme weather or attacks on infrastructure. Redundancy is a must IMHO.

If any place in the world purposely has any excess power plants lying around 'just in case' it would literally be the first time in history that has ever happened.  No grid ever created or operated has had more than the minimum amount of excess generating capacity required to prevent current and voltage instabilities.  It's too expensive and wasteful to operate otherwise.  

[Ecocharger + 1,475]

20 hours ago, Eric Gagen said:

What the Chinese government wants the mines to supply, and what will actually be supplied aren't always the same thing. It also shouldn't be seen as a coincidence that the size of the ordered increase is exactly the same as the amount currently being imported to China by overseas sources (not counting North Korean and Mongolian imports)  

 

 

https://www.eia.gov/international/analysis/country/CHN

The truth of the matter is, that domestic production of Coal in China hit a peak around 2012 or 2013, and it has only been through tremendous efforts that they have been able to hold on to what they have got so far.  For 2020 it was between 3,850 and 3,900 million tons https://www.ceicdata.com/en/indicator/china/coal-production https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/chinas-2020-coal-output-rises-to-highest-since-2015-undermining-climate-pledges-2021-01-17( a slight improvement from 2019, but still below the peak years) and in 2021 with the most strenuous efforts it may have touched 4,070 million https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/19/business/china-coal-production-record-intl-hnk/index.html although usually data this new gets revised in the next year or two as record keeping is completed.  

I have detailed the rise (and coming fall) of Chinese coal production here, with a LOT of sources in it:

part 1

https://epgsolutionsco.com/articles-and-news-blog/f/china-is-running-out-of-coal

part 2

https://epgsolutionsco.com/articles-and-news-blog/f/china-is-running-out-of-coal-now-what

It's particularly noteworthy that the very modest rise in coal production in China has only been accomplished with a tripling (or more) of coal prices in China.  If it were possible for the mines in China to make massive increases in production they would have.  Even the 'official' price of steam coal in China right now is 700 yuan - the chart below is import price at Zhengzhou docks.  

There are new plans to increase coal production in China. 

[Ecocharger + 1,475]

The age of cheap renewable energy is over, price increases in renewable inputs have already ratcheted up, and it will only get worse going forward.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/The-Era-of-Cheap-Renewables-Grinds-To-A-Halt.html

"Raw material shortages, notably in metals and minerals and polysilicon are impacting the renewable energy industry

The cost of solar panels, wind turbines, and EV batteries is climbing after years of declines

Solar panel prices had surged by more than 50 percent in the past 12 months alone. The price of wind turbines is up 13 percent and battery prices are rising for the first time ever"

Edited January 26, 2022 by Ecocharger

[Eric Gagen + 713]

48 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

There are new plans to increase coal production in China. 

Yes - they are making, have made, and continue to make plans to bring new mines on, improve old ones, etc.  Did you read the articles I posted or check the statistics?  All of that effort is to keep the rate of coal production stable as old mines are worked out.  it's not resulting in any considerable increase in production.  It's not as though they weren't trying in 2014,or 15,or 16,or 17 or 18, or 19 - it's just that production continued to decline in spite of all those efforts.  

Edited January 26, 2022 by Eric Gagen

[Ecocharger + 1,475]

1 hour ago, Eric Gagen said:

Yes - they are making, have made, and continue to make plans to bring new mines on, improve old ones, etc.  Did you read the articles I posted or check the statistics?  All of that effort is to keep the rate of coal production stable as old mines are worked out.  it's not resulting in any considerable increase in production.  It's not as though they weren't trying in 2014,or 15,or 16,or 17 or 18, or 19 - it's just that production continued to decline in spite of all those efforts.  

They were planning to phase out the old "dirtier" technology mines and introduce new cleaner technology mines. But now the replacement rate will increase and eventually produce more coal in more productive mines. Output to increase.

[Ecocharger + 1,475]

Biden & Co. are getting desperate in attempts to increase oil on the market, this new release simply shuffles barrels from one pocket into another pocket with NO new production of additional barrels...net result, zero. Could anything be more pathetic?

It is time for Biden & Co. to try listening to more expert voices of reason.

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/US-Releases-Another-134-Million-Barrels-From-SPR.html

"As with all exchanges, companies that receive SPR crude oil through the exchange agree to return the amount of crude oil received, as well as an additional amount, dependent upon the length of time in which they hold the oil,” the DoE said in late December.

Despite the SRP release effort, gas prices are not where the White House would want them to be. Over the past 12 months, prices at the pump have gained some 50 percent, per a recent CNBC report, and with inflation running hot, the chances of them declining in any substantial way anytime soon are quite slim.

Before the Biden administration resorted to the SPR release, the president tried calling on OPEC and its partners to boost production beyond what OPEC+ had already agreed to add to its combined total. The cartel refused, leaving the White House with few options besides a reserve release. Analysts warned at the time that the move would not have the desired effect for a variety of reasons."

Edited January 26, 2022 by Ecocharger

[Eric Gagen + 713]

4 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

They were planning to phase out the old "dirtier" technology mines and introduce new cleaner technology mines. But now the replacement rate will increase and eventually produce more coal in more productive mines. Output to increase.

You need data to back that up, because so far it's just your word, and it doesn't match up with the past news items and performance of mines in China.  I mean it might be there - the Chinese government actually publishes an impressive amount of statistical data, forecasts, and plans - in english even! I just haven't seen it yet.  

[ronwagn + 6,290]

6 hours ago, Eric Gagen said:

China is THE world leader in placing renewables and hydro into production.  The 'problem' is that they are all getting rich enough to afford air conditioning, refrigerators and televisions, so power demand is going through the roof.  All the capacity additions from all the sources simply has been barely enough to keep up with increased demand.  

I was not talking about production. I am talking about what THEY use. 

[Eric Gagen + 713]

4 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

I was not talking about production. I am talking about what THEY use. 

I was too - solar, hydro and wind constructed and deployed in China for domestic consumption in China.  They use all of it - it's just not enough because demand is growing so fast.  As a percentage of electricity generated in China it's not that big,  but compared to the amount of renewables deployed anywhere else it's staggering, and growing fast.  They just can't build it fast enough to keep up with demand.  This is the first time (and probably the last) we have seen a country of 1.4 billion transition from famine and starvation to 1st world status in the space of 40 years, and it's mind numbing how fast it's going.  

Edited January 26, 2022 by Eric Gagen

[ronwagn + 6,290]

25 minutes ago, Eric Gagen said:

I was too - solar, hydro and wind for domestic consumption in China.  They use all of it - it's just not enough because demand is growing so fast.  As a percentage of electricity generated in China it's not that big,  but compared to the amount of renewables deployed anywhere else it's staggering, and growing fast.  They just can't build it fast enough to keep up with demand.  This is the first time (and probably the last) we have seen a country of 1.4 billion transition from famine and starvation to 1st world status in the space of 40 years, and it's mind numbing how fast it's going.  

Eric, you are not looking at the big picture in China. They show their best and hide their worst. Our media never covers their poverty either. 

https://www.pnas.org/content/111/19/6928

In conclusion, our results reveal that China’s income inequality has grown rapidly in the last three decades, to a very high level around 2010. The rapid rise in income inequality can be partly attributed to long-standing government development policies that effectively favor urban residents over rural residents and favor coastal, more developed regions over inland, less developed regions (13, 25, 32). Given the structural importance in generating China’s high income inequality, it seems plausible that income inequality can be reduced by changes in government policies, for example, reducing the rural-urban and regional disparities. We begin to observe early signs of change in this direction between 2010 and 2012 (2).

https://ourworldindata.org/energy/country/china

The contribution of wind and solar is tiny. 

Edited January 26, 2022 by ronwagn
reference

[Ecocharger + 1,475]

1 hour ago, Eric Gagen said:

You need data to back that up, because so far it's just your word, and it doesn't match up with the past news items and performance of mines in China.  I mean it might be there - the Chinese government actually publishes an impressive amount of statistical data, forecasts, and plans - in english even! I just haven't seen it yet.  

Output of coal is already increasing at a substantial rate. You have to keep watching, if you turn your head the Chinese rate of coal output increases again, and you cannot simply assume that this trend will change and go down. There are new mines planned to open.

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/chinas-oct-coal-output-rises-highest-since-march-2015-2021-11-15/

"The world's biggest producer and consumer of the dirty fossil fuel churned out 357.09 million tonnes of coal last month, up from 334.1 million tonnes in September, data from the National Bureau of Statistics showed on Monday.

Output over the first 10 months of 2021 was 3.3 billion tonnes, up 4% year-on-year.

Since July, China has approved expansions at more than 153 coal mines, which could add 55 million tonnes of coal output in the fourth quarter, the National Development and Reform Commission (NDRC) said last month.

The central government, striving to put an end to power shortages, has also forbidden local governments to shut coal mines without authorisation and urged a restart at closed mines as soon as they have rectified any problems. 

The increase comes as India, backed by China and other coal-dependent developing nations, brokered a last minute amendment at the COP26 climate talks in Glasgow at the weekend to change the final wording of the agreement to "phase down" rather than "phase out" the use of coal. "

In other words, no "phase-out", that idea is DONE, and GONE.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,475]

29 minutes ago, Eric Gagen said:

I was too - solar, hydro and wind constructed and deployed in China for domestic consumption in China.  They use all of it - it's just not enough because demand is growing so fast.  As a percentage of electricity generated in China it's not that big,  but compared to the amount of renewables deployed anywhere else it's staggering, and growing fast.  They just can't build it fast enough to keep up with demand.  This is the first time (and probably the last) we have seen a country of 1.4 billion transition from famine and starvation to 1st world status in the space of 40 years, and it's mind numbing how fast it's going.  

They are going to have problems with the price of inputs, and that will limit market penetration.

"Solar panel prices had surged by more than 50 percent in the past 12 months alone. The price of wind turbines is up 13 percent and battery prices are rising for the first time ever"

[ronwagn + 6,290]

22 hours ago, notsonice said:

Peak Oil???? did it already happen???? if no one is producing ICE vehicles in 2030 the oil business will shrivel up and disappear sooner than expected....

 

GM to spend nearly $7B on EV, battery plants in Michigan

By DAVID EGGERT and TOM KRISHERan hour ago

 

LANSING, Mich. (AP) — General Motors is making the largest investment in company history in its home state of Michigan, announcing plans to spend nearly $7 billion to convert a factory to make electric pickup trucks and to build a new battery cell plant.

The moves, announced Tuesday in the state capital of Lansing, will create up to 4,000 jobs and keep another 1,000 already employed at an underutilized assembly plant north of Detroit.

The automaker plans to spend up to $4 billion converting and expanding its Orion Township assembly factory to make electric pickups and $1.5 billion to $2.5 billion building a third U.S. battery cell plant with a joint-venture partner in Lansing.

GM CEO Mary Barra said the investment would make Michigan “the epicenter of the electric vehicle industry.”

The state’s economic development board on Tuesday approved $824 million in incentives and assistance for Detroit-based GM. The package was unveiled and authorized by the Michigan Strategic Fund Board. It includes a $600 million grant to GM and Ultium Cells, the venture between the carmaker and LG Energy Solution, and a $158 million tax break for Ultium. The board also approved $66.1 million to help a local electric utility and township upgrade infrastructure at the battery factory site.

Both factories are scheduled to start producing in about two years, as GM rolls the dice on whether Americans will be willing to convert from internal combustion engines to battery power.

The Orion plant will join GM’s “Factory Zero” facility in Detroit in building new electric Chevrolet Silverados and GMC Sierra pickups. When both plants are making trucks on three shifts, GM will have the ability to build 600,000 electric pickup trucks per year, Barra said.

Already the company is getting great interest in the trucks from consumers, she said, without giving any numbers of reservations.

The announcement is a critical win for Michigan, which lost out on Ford Motor Co.’s $11 billion investment in three battery plants and a new vehicle assembly plant that went to Kentucky and Tennessee.

GM President Mark Reuss said it made sense for GM to locate the battery factory near its large manufacturing footprint in Michigan. The company’s ability to quickly convert existing factories such as Orion to build solely electric vehicles is a competitive advantage over companies that need to costly build brand-new plants, he said.

“We’re going to take advantage of that from an assembly plant standpoint, and then we’re going to put the new cell plants in the proximity to supply that footprint,” Reuss said.

GM says it will build four battery cell factories in North America. The Lansing announcement is its third, but Reuss said more may be needed as the transition to electric vehicles continues. The location of the fourth plant has not been announced.

“We’ve said four for now, but the adoption rate is rapid,” Reuss said. The other battery plants are being built in Lordstown, Ohio, and Spring Hill, Tennessee.

In Michigan, officials realized the critical nature of winning the GM investment after losing out on Ford’s announcement last year.

Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, a Democrat, said the GM announcement shows what can happen when elected officials from both sides of the aisle work together. “We showed everyone that we can compete with transformational projects,” she said.

The announcements, which include another $510 million investment to maintain production at two other Lansing-area GM plants, will generate more than $35 billion in personal income during the next 20 years, Whitmer said.

“The economic well-being of our state isn’t a partisan matter. High quality jobs don’t have party affiliations,” Republican Senate Majority Leader Mike Shirkey said.

Without the GM investment, Michigan risked losing a big chunk of its manufacturing base as the nation and world are expected to shift away from the vehicles it now makes that are largely powered by internal combustion engines. The consulting firm LMC Automotive expects U.S. EV sales to grow from just over 400,000 last year to 2.2 million in 2025. Even then, they still will be only about 13% of total U.S. new vehicle sales.

Reuss said that as the transition to electric vehicles starts, some buyers will substitute EVs for internal combustion trucks, but that number is difficult to estimate. GM, he said, doesn’t see the transition moving as fast in heavy duty work trucks. But the company is ready for whatever consumers want to buy, with factories building both versions. “That’s the way we’re approaching it, very agile, very much a foot in both camps as we do this transition,” he said.

Members of the United Auto Workers union are worried that jobs making gas engines, transmissions and other internal combustion vehicle parts eventually could be lost, since electric vehicles have fewer moving parts and are easier to assemble.

GM, which has set a goal of building only electric passenger vehicles by 2035, said that together with Ultium it considered multiple states for the new battery factory. The company has pledged to have 30 electric vehicle models for sale globally by 2025.

___

Krisher reported from Detroit.

2030 is fast approaching. I think that hybrid vehicles will be the first choice in the future for Americans. I think that 2040 to 2050 will be more realistic for small and midsize vehicles in use. By then the charging system will have a chance to catch up. 

[Ecocharger + 1,475]

1 minute ago, ronwagn said:

2030 is fast approaching. I think that hybrid vehicles will be the first choice in the future for Americans. I think that 2040 to 2050 will be more realistic for small and midsize vehicles in use. By then the charging system will have a chance to catch up. 

It will also have a chance to reconfigure in light of rapid cost increases to batteries. We are already seeing the beginnings of battery price increases due to supply constraints.

[ronwagn + 6,290]

6 hours ago, Eric Gagen said:

If any place in the world purposely has any excess power plants lying around 'just in case' it would literally be the first time in history that has ever happened.  No grid ever created or operated has had more than the minimum amount of excess generating capacity required to prevent current and voltage instabilities.  It's too expensive and wasteful to operate otherwise.  

I do not think it is wasteful. I think that not having any redundancy is very dangerous to our way of life which is totally dependent on electricity to meet the most basic of needs. 

[Ecocharger + 1,475]

25 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Output of coal is already increasing at a substantial rate. You have to keep watching, if you turn your head the Chinese rate of coal output increases again, and you cannot simply assume that this trend will change and go down. There are new mines planned to open.

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/chinas-oct-coal-output-rises-highest-since-march-2015-2021-11-15/

"The world's biggest producer and consumer of the dirty fossil fuel churned out 357.09 million tonnes of coal last month, up from 334.1 million tonnes in September, data from the National Bureau of Statistics showed on Monday.

Output over the first 10 months of 2021 was 3.3 billion tonnes, up 4% year-on-year.

Since July, China has approved expansions at more than 153 coal mines, which could add 55 million tonnes of coal output in the fourth quarter, the National Development and Reform Commission (NDRC) said last month.

The central government, striving to put an end to power shortages, has also forbidden local governments to shut coal mines without authorisation and urged a restart at closed mines as soon as they have rectified any problems. 

The increase comes as India, backed by China and other coal-dependent developing nations, brokered a last minute amendment at the COP26 climate talks in Glasgow at the weekend to change the final wording of the agreement to "phase down" rather than "phase out" the use of coal. "

In other words, no "phase-out", that idea is DONE, and GONE.

Okay, Eric, here is the reference that you asked for. Now, do not lose it, I don't want to have to go looking for it again.

If you click on the link, you will see the chart and graph showing a consistent gain  in coal production since 2015, a seven year trend....yes, it goes UP.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Ecocharger

[TailingsPond + 1,008]

3 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

We are already seeing the beginnings of battery price increases due to supply constraints.

Prices rise because supply can't easily meet demand.

You say that green energy will fail because of increasing prices yet do not realize the prices only increase when there is rapid adoption and high demand. So any time you post about increasing prices of batteries, solar panels, and turbines due to demand you are presenting evidence that the transition is almost succeeding too fast, not failing.

 

[Eric Gagen + 713]

Just now, Ecocharger said:

Okay, Eric, here is the reference that you asked for. Now, do not lose it, I don't want to have to go looking for it again.

Yes - that's the same one we used before - and my data also showed that 'highest since 2015' (what the Reuters article discusses) is also still lower than it was in 2012 and 13.  It's also behind a paywall.  The new mines with 55 million tpy capacity are good, but what they don't mention (and never can) is how many older played out mines close or are curtailed over the same period.  That's not a fault of 'bad reporting' or 'trying to hide the decline' it's just a fact, that nobody really knows when the economic limit of a mine with a lot of depletion is.  If borrowing is easy (sort of right now), prices for coal are high (definately), and labor is cheap (it's not at least by Chinese standards right now) that economic limit gets extended.  By contrast production can also end unexpectedly early due to water intrusion, a fire, collapse or other major incident (which would require costly repairs and re construction to recover from) or unexpectedly bad stocks of coal (sometimes it just isn't in the ground where you thought it was)  This is why responsible governments (and amazingly China IS in this group at least in this regard) try to keep detailed statistics of mines opened, mines closed, pay extracted, problems encountered in various mining regions, etc. so that they can try to predict some of these hard to predict things.  

[Ecocharger + 1,475]

1 minute ago, Eric Gagen said:

Yes - that's the same one we used before - and my data also showed that 'highest since 2015' (what the Reuters article discusses) is also still lower than it was in 2012 and 13.  It's also behind a paywall.  The new mines with 55 million tpy capacity are good, but what they don't mention (and never can) is how many older played out mines close or are curtailed over the same period.  That's not a fault of 'bad reporting' or 'trying to hide the decline' it's just a fact, that nobody really knows when the economic limit of a mine with a lot of depletion is.  If borrowing is easy (sort of right now), prices for coal are high (definately), and labor is cheap (it's not at least by Chinese standards right now) that economic limit gets extended.  By contrast production can also end unexpectedly early due to water intrusion, a fire, collapse or other major incident (which would require costly repairs and re construction to recover from) or unexpectedly bad stocks of coal (sometimes it just isn't in the ground where you thought it was)  This is why responsible governments (and amazingly China IS in this group at least in this regard) try to keep detailed statistics of mines opened, mines closed, pay extracted, problems encountered in various mining regions, etc. so that they can try to predict some of these hard to predict things.  

If you read the article, it shows that the Chinese government has ordered the reopening of closed mines. We are witnessing a rapid buildup of coal production, both from new mines (that 55 million tonnes) and from reopening old mines. 

Hang on to your hat, this is going to be a wild ride.

[Eric Gagen + 713]

10 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

I do not think it is wasteful. I think that not having any redundancy is very dangerous to our way of life which is totally dependent on electricity to meet the most basic of needs. 

Personally I don't think it is either,  and I would be happy to pay a 'surcharge' say an extra 10% on my electric bill each month for grid hardening, redunant power plants, fuel stocks, etc.  

Sadlly the average member of the public disagrees, literally violently (as witnessed with protests and riots in Europe over high utility bills) with you and I, and the people who run utility companies will do the absolute minimum to meet legal requirements of this sort, because they are regulated, and don't get to charge extra for improvements beyond the letter of the law.  

[Ecocharger + 1,475]

5 minutes ago, TailingsPond said:

Prices rise because supply can't easily meet demand.

You say that green energy will fail because of increasing prices yet do not realize the prices only increase when there is rapid adoption and high demand. So any time you post about increasing prices of batteries, solar panels, and turbines due to demand you are presenting evidence that the transition is almost succeeding too fast, not failing.

 

Environmentalist activists are stopping the supply chain from providing inputs into batteries...this trend will continue.

[Eric Gagen + 713]

2 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

If you read the article, it shows that the Chinese government has ordered the reopening of closed mines. We are witnessing a rapid buildup of coal production, both from new mines (that 55 million tonnes) and from reopening old mines. 

Hang on to your hat, this is going to be a wild ride.

I can't read the article - it's behind a paywall.  I agree though, it will be a wild ride.  Another wildcard on the wild ride is that for skilled industrial labor and capital (of the sort you need to run coal mines effectively) China doesn't have serious excess capacity - wages are going to go up, and production and imports of capital equipment will rise.  I foresee Caterpillar and Komatsu selling a lot of mining gear to China in the next little while.  

 

Edit:  got past the paywall by using a different computer.  You reported the gist of it effectively though.  They are definately pulling out all the stops.  When central planners say pull out the stops, cost be damned, interesting things happen.  Although with prices 'down to 810 yuan' compared to the long run average of ~ 400 yuan most producers will make money if they are already online.  The ones that get screwed will be the ones that borrow money to put marginal mines on,  then don't have any production come on line until after prices fall back down.  

Edited January 26, 2022 by Eric Gagen

[Ecocharger + 1,475]

The weather is not cooperating with the Green Agenda, all that hot air about global warming is turning into frigid air. It's getting cold!

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Natural-Gas/US-Natural-Gas-Prices-Jump-On-High-Demand.html

"Natural gas prices reflected expected high to very high demand for space heating and electricity in the United States in the coming days. According to estimates from NatGasWeather.com for the week January 26 to February 2, national natural gas demand is expected to be strong through the weekend as a series of frigid blasts sweep across the Midwest, Plains, and East with snow showers and frosty lows of -20s to 20s. Lows between teens and the 30s in Texas and the South, along with rain and snow showers, will also lift demand for natural gas. The colder Mountain West will see highs in 10s to 40s with lows of -0s to 30s. Overall, NatGasWeather predicts high to very high national demand through the weekend. Moreover, higher American LNG exports with more cargoes going to energy-starved Europe is also tightening domestic U.S. supply, which has been relatively flat recently."

Edited January 26, 2022 by Ecocharger

[ronwagn + 6,290]

2 minutes ago, Eric Gagen said:

Personally I don't think it is either,  and I would be happy to pay a 'surcharge' say an extra 10% on my electric bill each month for grid hardening, redunant power plants, fuel stocks, etc.  

Sadlly the average member of the public disagrees, literally violently (as witnessed with protests and riots in Europe over high utility bills) with you and I, and the people who run utility companies will do the absolute minimum to meet legal requirements of this sort, because they are regulated, and don't get to charge extra for improvements beyond the letter of the law.  

Then I think that the public needs to be educated as do many politicians or the whole world could be thrown into a deathly chaos. The Third Word might be better prepared for survival than the the First or Second. 

[Ecocharger + 1,475]

7 minutes ago, Eric Gagen said:

I can't read the article - it's behind a paywall.  I agree though, it will be a wild ride.  Another wildcard on the wild ride is that for skilled industrial labor and capital (of the sort you need to run coal mines effectively) China doesn't have serious excess capacity - wages are going to go up, and production and imports of capital equipment will rise.  I foresee Caterpillar and Komatsu selling a lot of mining gear to China in the next little while.  

I gave you the contents above, so how can you not read it? The chart may not show up for you, but take my word, coal production has been consistently rising in China for the past SEVEN YEARS, this is no temporary trend.

Eric, mark this page so that in future when this idea is discussed, we do not lose these contents.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Ecocharger