GREEN NEW DEAL = BLIZZARD OF LIES

[Ecocharger + 1,477]

On 6/22/2023 at 7:33 PM, bloodman33 said:

The oil industry has killed the planet.   You ask why don't I do something.  There is nothing to do.  Damage has been done.  I want the oil companies to be held accountable. Part of that is getting their money.  I want money!  That's what I want. Why don't I buy a EV.  For one I live in an apartment.  The oil companies have made humanity dependent on oil. The tipping point is past.  The children of the oil executives need to be punished along with the executives.  I want their money!   That's what I want!

You are intent on making things worse by driving up energy prices and sacrificing your personal freedom to own a vehicle. That is what the Green propaganda would lead to.

A  pox on Green fairy tales! You can blame your Green friends for making your life miserable.

Edited June 24, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,477]

Here is where the Green nonsense leads, to economic disaster.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Sky-High-Energy-Prices-Propel-German-Corporate-Flight.html

" In May, the BDI announced a negative GDP growth of -0.3 percent for Germany in the first three months of the year. The federation expects Germany to see flatline growth this year, much lower than the global GDP growth estimate of 2.7 percent. And if companies begin exiting the country, it could rapidly become worse. 

With more and more companies discussing the idea of relocating from Germany to countries offering lower energy costs, the German government must rapidly respond to the challenge to prevent a recession, which it is already on the cusp of. "

Edited June 24, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,477]

4 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Bitcoin is a plague on society, a ponzi scheme created by idiot Austrian anarcho capitalists. It needs to be outlawed as it is very expensive and provides no value to society. 

But with the build out of solar in Texas they soon will have no issues with summer heat waves.

Deep red Texas is going green!

Texas solar boom turns to battery dash 

By Eduardo Garcia

March 15, 20238:27 AM PDTUpdated 3 months ago

 

March 15 - Texas will continue to lead U.S. solar growth in the coming years as tax incentives in President Biden's Inflation Reduction Act accelerate activity nationwide.

The U.S. Energy Information Administration predicts Texas will install 7.7 GW of solar this year, a quarter of all U.S. installations. Some 36 GW in new capacity is expected in Texas in the next five years, according to the U.S. Solar Energy Industry Association (SEIA).

At the start of 2022, only 27% of all solar projects in the Texas grid connection queue were coupled with storage and by the end of the year this had risen to 42%,

Your post is three months old, Jay. 

I gave you a post from this week showing what happens when a state relies too much on wind and solar.

Here is what happens when a state depends too much on green electricity.

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/environment-and-energy/bitcoin-miners-went-dark-as-texas-power-grid-teetered-on-brink

"Bitcoin miners in Texas curbed operations, crimping power usage, as a heat wave drove electricity prices sky-high Tuesday and threatened to cripple the grid in the second-largest US state.

The extent of the intentional shutdown and the amount of power conserved for other uses — such as residential air conditioners, medical centers and municipal water systems — was not yet immediately clear. But the curtailments were confirmed by industry participants and grid manager the Electric Reliability Council of Texas, or Ercot."

[turbguy + 1,545]

5 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Here is what happens when a state depends too much on green electricity.

Interruptible loads are common practice in the industry.  Typically, those loads see a better price structure, or are compensated for providing that ancillary service.  Nothing new here, at all. 

Here's what happens when a state depends too much on nat gas, de-regulation, and ignoring the prior recommendations of FERC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Texas_power_crisis

At least 246 people were killed directly or indirectly, with some estimates as high as 702 killed.

Total Texas electricity costs on February 16 alone reached $10.3 billion, greater than the $9.8 billion spent in all of 2020!

I don't believe that green energy has caused anywhere near that much damage.

When wind, or solar, or coal, or nuclear underperforms, they lose money. When gas power plants underperform they lose money. But when the gas producers underperform, they made money!!!

...and I am still questioning why I am STILL paying for that fiasco EVERY MONTH!!

...and Mr. Cruz decided a little trip to Cancun was just the thing to do.

Governor Abbott said in November 2021, "I can guarantee the lights will stay on," though in February 2022 he said, "No one can guarantee that there won't be a load shed event."  Hmmmm.  At least his second statement is true.

Edited June 24, 2023 by turbguy

[TailingsPond + 1,009]

Oil down 4% on week as recession fears suppress summer demand (msn.com)

US drillers cut oil and gas rigs for eighth week in a row - Baker Hughes (msn.com)

Edited June 24, 2023 by TailingsPond

[Ecocharger + 1,477]

12 hours ago, turbguy said:

Interruptible loads are common practice in the industry.  Typically, those loads see a better price structure, or are compensated for providing that ancillary service.  Nothing new here, at all. 

Here's what happens when a state depends too much on nat gas, de-regulation, and ignoring the prior recommendations of FERC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Texas_power_crisis

At least 246 people were killed directly or indirectly, with some estimates as high as 702 killed.

Total Texas electricity costs on February 16 alone reached $10.3 billion, greater than the $9.8 billion spent in all of 2020!

I don't believe that green energy has caused anywhere near that much damage.

When wind, or solar, or coal, or nuclear underperforms, they lose money. When gas power plants underperform they lose money. But when the gas producers underperform, they made money!!!

...and I am still questioning why I am STILL paying for that fiasco EVERY MONTH!!

...and Mr. Cruz decided a little trip to Cancun was just the thing to do.

Governor Abbott said in November 2021, "I can guarantee the lights will stay on," though in February 2022 he said, "No one can guarantee that there won't be a load shed event."  Hmmmm.  At least his second statement is true.

That was caused by the failure of Green energy. A real knock against the Green dream nonsense.

I guess you missed that debate, but Texas is still in trouble due to Green dependence.

Edited June 24, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,477]

10 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

Oil down 4% on week as recession fears suppress summer demand (msn.com)

US drillers cut oil and gas rigs for eighth week in a row - Baker Hughes (msn.com)

Markets are weak during a recession? That is your idea of news?

Man, that's baby talk.

[turbguy + 1,545]

Just now, Ecocharger said:

That was caused by the failure of Green energy. A real knock against the Green dream nonsense.

I guess you missed that debate, but Texas is still in trouble due to Green dependence.

I guess you are still stuck with "alternative facts".

That situation was caused by the collapse of nat gas generation. 

Period.

And, just where are my extra payments going??

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

59 minutes ago, turbguy said:

That situation was caused by the collapse of nat gas generation. 

Let's US be clear in your summary judgment. Mother nature froze the 16th century windmills implemented by man.

Once again men of little insight designed a flawed fuel distribution network. The generation network simply could not operate  due to very poor engineering/ thought processing skills.

Edited June 24, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open

[notsonice + 1,255]

2 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Let's US be clear in your summary judgment. Mother nature froze the 16th century windmills implemented by man.

Once again men of little insight designed a flawed fuel distribution network. The generation network simply could not operate  due to very poor engineering/ thought processing skills.

back to reality.....

 

 Five times more natural gas than wind power had been lost.

 

2021 Texas power crisis

Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › 2021_Texas_power_

 

Immediate weather and power plant failures[edit]

 

Natural gas prices spiked to $23.86 on February 17, 2021^[40]
In February 2003 there was a similar spike in natural gas prices because of shortages^[41]

 

Reduced electricity from coal, nuclear, and wind power plants contributed to the shortage on February 15 and afterwards.^[42]

The winter storm caused a record low temperature at Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport of −2 °F (−19 °C) on February 16, the coldest in North Texas in 72 years.^[43] Most Texan homes, which infrequently see low temperatures, have poor insulation and are heated with inefficient electric resistance heaters, resulting in extremely high electricity demand.^[22] Power equipment in Texas was not winterized, leaving it vulnerable to extended periods of cold weather.^[44][45] Natural gas power generating facilities had equipment freeze up and faced shortages of fuel. Texas Governor Greg Abbott and some other politicians initially said renewable energy sources were the cause for the power outages, citing frozen wind turbines as an example of their unreliability.^[46] Viral images of a helicopter de-icing a wind turbine said to be in Texas were actually taken in 2015 in Sweden.^[47] However, wind energy accounts for only 23% of Texas power output;^[47] moreover, equipment for other energy sources such as natural gas power generating facilities either freezing up or having mechanical failures were also responsible.^[46] Governor Abbott later acknowledged that coal, natural gas, and nuclear plants had played a role.^[46] Five times more natural gas than wind power had been lost.^[48] When power was cut, it disabled some compressors that push gas through pipelines, knocking out further gas plants due to lack of supply.^[49]

ERCOT was aware on February 13 that blackouts would be likely and the grid would have to shut off more than 10% of its demand.^[22] The next day, electricity demand exceeded 67.2 gigawatts, higher than what the grid operator had ever planned for in extreme winter weather. Overnight ERCOT ordered utilities to drop several thousand megawatts of load, but the grid frequency continued to drop as demand exceeded supply. The grid came within minutes of overloading and shutting down completely, which would have required a slow and costly black start.^[22]

[TailingsPond + 1,009]

5 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Markets are weak during a recession? That is your idea of news?

Man, that's baby talk.

You have falling prices and reduced production.

The oil industry isn't investing in itself with new wells; they are transitioning to "energy" companies.

You are bullish on oil, the companies themselves are not.

Edited June 24, 2023 by TailingsPond

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

17 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Your post is three months old, Jay. 

I gave you a post from this week showing what happens when a state relies too much on wind and solar.

Here is what happens when a state depends too much on green electricity.

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/environment-and-energy/bitcoin-miners-went-dark-as-texas-power-grid-teetered-on-brink

"Bitcoin miners in Texas curbed operations, crimping power usage, as a heat wave drove electricity prices sky-high Tuesday and threatened to cripple the grid in the second-largest US state.

The extent of the intentional shutdown and the amount of power conserved for other uses — such as residential air conditioners, medical centers and municipal water systems — was not yet immediately clear. But the curtailments were confirmed by industry participants and grid manager the Electric Reliability Council of Texas, or Ercot."

Deep red Texas is choosing cheap renewables over expensive FF. You are just going to have to deal with it. 

As Turb said: "Interruptible loads are common practice in the industry.  Typically, those loads see a better price structure, or are compensated for providing that ancillary service.  Nothing new here, at all. "

Edited June 24, 2023 by Jay McKinsey

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

1. In the short term Chinese electricity demand and thus coal demand has peaked as their economy has flatlined:

China’s economic recovery is spluttering. The prognosis is not good

China has reopened with a whimper, not a bang. A range of economic indicators, including retail sales and investment, have risen less rapidly than expected. Some analysts now think the economy might not have grown at all during the second quarter. At this rate, the government’s modest gdp target, for growth in 2023 of 5%, will only just be met.

2. In the longer term Chinese electricity demand and thus coal demand will decrease as their population has peaked and will more than halve by the end of the century:

The Shanghai Academy of Social Sciences team predicts an annual average decline of 1.1% after 2021, pushing China’s population down to 587 million in 2100, less than half of what it is today.

Edited June 24, 2023 by Jay McKinsey

[turbguy + 1,545]

5 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Let's US be clear in your summary judgment. Mother nature froze the 16th century windmills implemented by man.

Once again men of little insight designed a flawed fuel distribution network. The generation network simply could not operate  due to very poor engineering/ thought processing skills.

While it is true that icing conditions reduced wind generation during that event, at no time did wind generation fall below Ercot's expectations, plans, or predictions. 

Nat gas generation kept tripping off line due to inadequate weatherization and lack of fuel.  Coal fired generation tripped due to frozen coal  supplies.  Nuc generation tripped due to freezing of feedwater flow sensor lines.

...and the Nat Gas stuff ain't even all "fixed" yet...

Does the Texas Railroad Commission talk with Ercot yet?

 

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

6 hours ago, turbguy said:

Nat gas generation kept tripping off line due to inadequate weatherization

Due tell...Turbguy you must have a very prominent strain of Norwegian heritage in you. 

Now might you explain how a wind turbine prop can spin with a imbalanced load?

 

 

Edited June 25, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open

[specinho + 470]

Guys...... How renewable energy is often way more costly than discussed...... 

[Ecocharger + 1,477]

7 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

1. In the short term Chinese electricity demand and thus coal demand has peaked as their economy has flatlined:

China’s economic recovery is spluttering. The prognosis is not good

China has reopened with a whimper, not a bang. A range of economic indicators, including retail sales and investment, have risen less rapidly than expected. Some analysts now think the economy might not have grown at all during the second quarter. At this rate, the government’s modest gdp target, for growth in 2023 of 5%, will only just be met.

2. In the longer term Chinese electricity demand and thus coal demand will decrease as their population has peaked and will more than halve by the end of the century:

The Shanghai Academy of Social Sciences team predicts an annual average decline of 1.1% after 2021, pushing China’s population down to 587 million in 2100, less than half of what it is today.

That is not long term, it is end of century. By that time the ice age might be back.

Sure, demand is constricted with the possibility of an induced recession to clean out the inflationary momentum.

That should be no surprise. But oil and distillate markets will adjust, and there is now still robust demand for diesel.

China's diesel exports quadrupled in May, reflecting robust global demand for distillate fuels 

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

Just now, Ecocharger said:

That is not long term, it is end of century. By that time the ice age might be back.

Sure, demand is constricted with the possibility of an induced recession to clean out the inflationary momentum.

That should be no surprise. But oil and distillate markets will adjust, and there is now still robust demand for diesel.

China's diesel exports quadrupled in May, reflecting robust global demand for distillate fuels 

You really are clueless.

China is projected to drop a third of their population in 40 years. That will have a drastic affect on their energy demands.

China is suffering from deflation not inflation: 

China's producer price index

Month-on-month, prices fell 0.2% — economists predicted a 0.1% decline. China's low consumer inflation and deflation in its producer prices come in contrast to relatively high inflation in major economies around the world.Jun 8, 2023

[Ecocharger + 1,477]

2 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

You really are clueless.

China is projected to drop a third of their population in 40 years. That will have a drastic affect on their energy demands.

China is suffering from deflation not inflation: 

China's producer price index

Month-on-month, prices fell 0.2% — economists predicted a 0.1% decline. China's low consumer inflation and deflation in its producer prices come in contrast to relatively high inflation in major economies around the world.Jun 8, 2023

You missed the point again, Jay. Inflation is under attack everywhere and prices will be reflecting a n expectation of slowdown. So what is new there?

Markets will adjust in oil as they always do. When the world economies pick up again oil prices will soar again. Nothing new there.

But your quote talked about the year 2100.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB3DJtQZVsw

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

6 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

You missed the point again, Jay. Inflation is under attack everywhere and prices will be reflecting a n expectation of slowdown. So what is new there?

Markets will adjust in oil as they always do. When the world economies pick up again oil prices will soar again. Nothing new there.

But your quote talked about the year 2100.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB3DJtQZVsw

Inflation is not under attack everywhere. The world's second largest economy is fighting deflation not inflation.

Interesting how you just keep claiming that the world's second largest economy is not part of the world economy.

The year 2100 is a population 60% less. In 40 years it will just be down by 30%.

 

 

Edited June 25, 2023 by Jay McKinsey

[Ecocharger + 1,477]

6 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Inflation is not under attack everywhere. The world's second largest economy is fighting deflation not inflation.

Interesting how you just keep claiming that the world's second largest economy is not part of the world economy.

The year 2100 is a population 60% less. In 40 years it will just be down by 30%.

 

 

We may have an ice age before that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaTNc_4Dgo8

Demand for diesel is still huge globally, and markets are tight.

Edited June 25, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

Just now, Ecocharger said:

We may have an ice age before that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaTNc_4Dgo8

Demand for diesel is still huge globally, and markets are tight.

Markets are average as I have proven to you with the inflation adjusted price.

No we aren't having any stupid ice age in the next 80 years. the temp is going up not down. You are just a nut case spreading non sense that others have to continuously correct. According to your models wasn't the Temp supposed to start dropping last year?

[Ecocharger + 1,477]

12 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Markets are average as I have proven to you with the inflation adjusted price.

No we aren't having any stupid ice age in the next 80 years. the temp is going up not down. You are just a nut case spreading non sense that others have to continuously correct. According to your models wasn't the Temp supposed to start dropping last year?

Looks like it has stabilized, or gone down, Jay. Right on schedule according to the solar models. Is that the same old chart you dragged out last year?

Markets are now tighter in diesel than the ten year average, and you got lost in the charts. You were looking at heating oil, not diesel.

Edited June 25, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

13 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Looks like it has stabilized, or gone down, Jay. Right on schedule according to the solar models.

Markets are now tighter in diesel than the ten year average, and you got lost in the charts. You were looking at heating oil, not diesel.

Dude, 2022 is clearly shown as being hotter than 2021. It is increasing right along the 50 year best fit line. 

Good grief, as I said heating oil and diesel are the same thing in the commodities market. The difference is created after the bulk sale:

The similarities and differences between diesel fuel and No. 2 fuel oil

There are two significant distinctions between these types of oils. No. 2 oil is stained with a reddish dye and No. 2 diesel has road taxes tacked onto its price. Diesel fuel is structurally comparable to oils commonly used in heating buildings, which includes No. 2 oil.

On the NYMEX both are now traded as diesel:

 

NYMEX Heating Oil Completes Transition to Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel

NYMEX heating oil futures and options are now ultra low sulfur diesel fuel (ULSD) futures and options. 

How the EIA defines it:

Distillate fuel oil:  A general classification for one of the petroleum fractions produced in conventional distillation operations. It includes diesel fuels and fuel oils. Products known as No. 1, No. 2, and No. 4 diesel fuel are used in on-highway diesel engines, such as those in trucks and automobiles, as well as off-highway engines, such as those in railroad locomotives and agricultural machinery. Products known as No. 1, No. 2, and No. 4 fuel oils are used primarily for space heating and electric power generation. 

 

Edited June 25, 2023 by Jay McKinsey

[Ecocharger + 1,477]

7 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Dude, 2022 is clearly shown as being hotter than 2021. It is increasing right along the 50 year best fit line. 

Good grief, as I said heating oil and diesel are the same thing in the commodities market. The difference is created after the bulk sale:

The similarities and differences between diesel fuel and No. 2 fuel oil

There are two significant distinctions between these types of oils. No. 2 oil is stained with a reddish dye and No. 2 diesel has road taxes tacked onto its price. Diesel fuel is structurally comparable to oils commonly used in heating buildings, which includes No. 2 oil.

On the NYMEX both are now traded as diesel:

 

NYMEX Heating Oil Completes Transition to Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel

As of yesterday, NYMEX heating oil futures and options are now ultra low sulfur diesel fuel (ULSD) futures and options. 

Distillate fuel oil:  A general classification for one of the petroleum fractions produced in conventional distillation operations. It includes diesel fuels and fuel oils. Products known as No. 1, No. 2, and No. 4 diesel fuel are used in on-highway diesel engines, such as those in trucks and automobiles, as well as off-highway engines, such as those in railroad locomotives and agricultural machinery. Products known as No. 1, No. 2, and No. 4 fuel oils are used primarily for space heating and electric power generation. 

 

Here is the story in diesel markets, which are now relatively tight in spite of the markets downturn.

https://www.reuters.com/markets/asia/global-distillate-stocks-low-despite-industrial-slowdown-2023-06-13/

"...over the last 4-6 weeks, diesel and gas oil cracks have stabilised and recovered slightly, as inventories have remained lower than expected a few months ago:

• In Europe, distillate inventories had increased by +32 million barrels at the end of May 2023 compared with their low point at the end of June 2022, but were still -32 million barrels (-8% or -1.00 standard deviations) below the prior 10-year seasonal average.
• In Singapore, inventories had increased by +2 million barrels by early June 2023 compared with June 2022 but were still -2.5 million barrels (-23% or -1.16 standard deviations) below the 10-year average.
• In the United States, stocks had risen by +5 million barrels since June 2022 but were still -22 million barrels (-16% or -1.18 standard deviations) below the 10-year seasonal average."

Edited June 25, 2023 by Ecocharger