TailingsPond + 505 GE December 18, 2023 10 minutes ago, Ron Wagner said: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RL-oDmqnks HUGE NEWS! Volkswagen CEO WARNED TO SHUT DOWN EVs! The same company that created software to hide their emissions. They are not an example to follow. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eyes Wide Open + 3,550 December 18, 2023 2 minutes ago, TailingsPond said: The same company that created software to hide their emissions. They are not an example to follow. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,489 December 18, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, Ron Wagner said: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RL-oDmqnks HUGE NEWS! Volkswagen CEO WARNED TO SHUT DOWN EVs! China is their biggest market and China is going EV. But VW can't compete on EVs in China. If they don't figure out a way to compete with EVs then they die.: To make matters worse, the champion of German manufacturing is also losing out to new challengers from China, which is its single largest market and a country where Volkswagen has been the biggest-selling car brand overall since at least 2000. The brand is close to losing that crown to local electric rival BYD. “Volkswagen has just fallen behind in the battery electric vehicle race,” said Al Bedwell, a director at GlobalData who focuses on e-mobility trends. “The big problem is China, where actually we expect Volkswagen to go backwards this year in terms of sales volumes,” he told CNN. In a market where EV sales are expected to grow by more than a quarter in 2023, Volkswagen’s sales are forecast by GlobalData, a data analytics company, to shrink by 7%. The group now sits in eighth place in China’s fast-growing market for electric cars, with a share of just 3.3%. BYD, which holds the top spot, has 25% and Tesla, in second place, has 15%, according to GlobalData. Edited December 18, 2023 by Jay McKinsey 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gkam44 + 26 December 18, 2023 " The number of new car dealers selling EVs has grown considerably EVs experienced a huge gain in market share, despite all the naysayers" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,384 DL December 18, 2023 18 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said: China is their biggest market and China is going EV. But VW can't compete on EVs in China. If they don't figure out a way to compete with EVs then they die.: To make matters worse, the champion of German manufacturing is also losing out to new challengers from China, which is its single largest market and a country where Volkswagen has been the biggest-selling car brand overall since at least 2000. The brand is close to losing that crown to local electric rival BYD. “Volkswagen has just fallen behind in the battery electric vehicle race,” said Al Bedwell, a director at GlobalData who focuses on e-mobility trends. “The big problem is China, where actually we expect Volkswagen to go backwards this year in terms of sales volumes,” he told CNN. In a market where EV sales are expected to grow by more than a quarter in 2023, Volkswagen’s sales are forecast by GlobalData, a data analytics company, to shrink by 7%. The group now sits in eighth place in China’s fast-growing market for electric cars, with a share of just 3.3%. BYD, which holds the top spot, has 25% and Tesla, in second place, has 15%, according to GlobalData. Some joke this is. "In a market where EV sales are expected to grow by more than a quarter in 2023," Actually, European EV sales SHRANK 3% YoY in the November numbers, that is a disaster for the Green Goblins. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,489 December 19, 2023 5 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: Some joke this is. "In a market where EV sales are expected to grow by more than a quarter in 2023," Actually, European EV sales SHRANK 3% YoY in the November numbers, that is a disaster for the Green Goblins. Apparently you flunked geography as well as economics. China and Europe are different places and different markets. EV sales in China are on track to grow by 25%. That was their growth in November: China posted a 25% increase in sales and were up 43% in the United States and Canada, while Europe saw sales drop 3% versus the same month in 2022. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eyes Wide Open + 3,550 December 19, 2023 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said: Apparently you flunked geography as well as economics. China and Europe are different places and different markets. Ya Don't Say...losing billions to produce a few trucks? That is your understanding of economics 101? Ford said it sold nearly 4,400 F-150 Lightnings in November, a new monthly record. It has sold around 20,000 electric F-150s in total this year so far. But the pickup still makes up a tiny fraction of the 680,000 F-series vehicles . Ford Lost $36,000 For Every Electric Vehicle Sold Last Quarter, So Was Toyota Right? https://www.businessinsider.com/ford-cuts-production-of-f150-lightning-cybertruck-rival-ev-demand-2023-12#amp_tf=From %1%24s&aoh=17027591207330&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.businessinsider.com%2Fford-cuts-production-of-f150-lightning-cybertruck-rival-ev-demand-2023-12 https://www.theautopian.com/ford-lost-36000-for-every-electric-vehicle-sold-last-quarter-so-was-toyota-right/comment-page-1/ Edited December 19, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,489 December 19, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said: Ya Don't Say... https://www.businessinsider.com/ford-cuts-production-of-f150-lightning-cybertruck-rival-ev-demand-2023-12#amp_tf=From %1%24s&aoh=17027591207330&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.businessinsider.com%2Fford-cuts-production-of-f150-lightning-cybertruck-rival-ev-demand-2023-12 Yet another complete non sequitur from you. We already discussed the Lightning. They are not cutting production, they are in fact more than tripling it. From your article: Ford said it sold nearly 4,400 F-150 Lightnings in November, a new monthly record.It has sold around 20,000 electric F-150s in total this year so far. (so probably 25K by year end.) The company is planning to produce 1,600 electric Ford F-150s a week in 2024. Which is over 80,000 a year. Edited December 19, 2023 by Jay McKinsey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eyes Wide Open + 3,550 December 19, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said: they are in fact more than tripling it. You do mean speculating do you not? After all letting children down easily is the kind way of life. Very cheesy way of walking back the glory of Dreaming Green and falling on ones face. Personally I do believe the automakers are hedging a bet on a political election...such is life. Edited December 19, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,489 December 19, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said: You do mean speculating do you not? After all letting children down easily is the kind way of life. Very cheesy way of walking back the glory of Dreaming Green and falling on ones face. Personally I do believe the automakers are hedging a bet on a political election...such is life. Less speculating than you are doing. November EV sales were up 43% in the United States and Canada Edited December 19, 2023 by Jay McKinsey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eyes Wide Open + 3,550 December 19, 2023 Just now, Jay McKinsey said: Less speculating than you are doing. That I will give you, EV'S have managed to outrun the cost of production for over 2yrs. There day is finally here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,489 December 19, 2023 1 hour ago, Eyes Wide Open said: That I will give you, EV'S have managed to outrun the cost of production for over 2yrs. There day is finally here. Well every year you say EVs have peaked and then they grow in sales by huge numbers. Is this your new call for EVs to have peaked? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,656 RP December 19, 2023 8 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said: You do mean speculating do you not? After all letting children down easily is the kind way of life. Very cheesy way of walking back the glory of Dreaming Green and falling on ones face. Personally I do believe the automakers are hedging a bet on a political election...such is life. How much profit did Tesla make in their first few years of mass production??? Tesla Gross Profit 2010-2023 | TSLA | MacroTrends It takes time to gain market share and this is no different for Ford and its a lot more difficult when competitors have the edge on tech and already have an established brand with significant market share like Tesla already have. If Ford can keep improving on their EV fleet they will gain share just as Audi, Mercedes, etc have done in Europe. Personally when I'm stuck in traffic, if I'm behind a car thats kicking out blue smoke its pretty unpleasant, if I'm stuck behind an EV then I'm breathing fresh air, a far nicer experience. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eyes Wide Open + 3,550 December 21, 2023 (edited) On 12/19/2023 at 1:06 AM, Rob Plant said: How much profit did Tesla make in their first few years of mass production??? Tesla Gross Profit 2010-2023 | TSLA | MacroTrends It takes time to gain market share and this is no different for Ford and its a lot more difficult when competitors have the edge on tech and already have an established brand with significant market share like Tesla already have. If Ford can keep improving on their EV fleet they will gain share just as Audi, Mercedes, etc have done in Europe. Personally when I'm stuck in traffic, if I'm behind a car thats kicking out blue smoke its pretty unpleasant, if I'm stuck behind an EV then I'm breathing fresh air, a far nicer experience. Just another day in the Green Melt down. Only Half of All Ford Dealers Agree to Sell EVs Next Year Whoa down 2/3.. go figure Ford said on Thursday that half of all 1,550 Ford dealers chose to sell electric vehicles in 2024—down from two-thirds that said this time last year that they would opt in to sell EVs for 2023. By Julianne Geiger - Dec 21, 2023, 2:30 PM https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Only-Half-of-All-Ford-Dealers-Agree-to-Sell-EVs-Next-Year.html Edited December 21, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,489 December 21, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said: Just another day in the Green Melt down. Only Half of All Ford Dealers Agree to Sell EVs Next Year Whoa down 2/3.. go figure Ford said on Thursday that half of all 1,550 Ford dealers chose to sell electric vehicles in 2024—down from two-thirds that said this time last year that they would opt in to sell EVs for 2023. By Julianne Geiger - Dec 21, 2023, 2:30 PM https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Only-Half-of-All-Ford-Dealers-Agree-to-Sell-EVs-Next-Year.html down from two-thirds - which means it went from 66% to 50% half is plenty for the current stage of the market Edited December 21, 2023 by Jay McKinsey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eyes Wide Open + 3,550 December 23, 2023 (edited) one man's trash is another man's treasure? Busted No one wants to buy used EVs and they’re piling up in weed-infested graveyards BYMONICA RAYMUNT AND BLOOMBERG December 22, 2023 at 3:06 AM PST There isn’t used-car demand for EVs,” said Matt Harrison, Toyota Motor Corp.’s chief operating officer in Europe. “That’s really hurting the cost-of-ownership story.” In the $1.2 trillion secondhand market, prices for battery-powered cars are falling faster than for their combustion-engine cousins. Buyers are shunning them due to a lack of subsidies, a desire to wait for better technology and continued shortfalls in charging infrastructures. A fierce price war sparked by Tesla Inc. and competitive Chinese models are further depressing values of new and used cars alike, threatening earnings at rivals like Volkswagen AG and Stellantis NV https://fortune.com/2023/12/22/no-one-wants-to-buy-used-ev-piling-weed-infested-graveyards-tesla-bmw-vw/#amp_tf=From %1%24s&aoh=17033699921745&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Ffortune.com%2F2023%2F12%2F22%2Fno-one-wants-to-buy-used-ev-piling-weed-infested-graveyards-tesla-bmw-vw%2F Edited December 23, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,102 DM December 26, 2023 On 12/23/2023 at 3:30 PM, Eyes Wide Open said: one man's trash is another man's treasure? Busted No one wants to buy used EVs and they’re piling up in weed-infested graveyards BYMONICA RAYMUNT AND BLOOMBERG December 22, 2023 at 3:06 AM PST There isn’t used-car demand for EVs,” said Matt Harrison, Toyota Motor Corp.’s chief operating officer in Europe. “That’s really hurting the cost-of-ownership story.” In the $1.2 trillion secondhand market, prices for battery-powered cars are falling faster than for their combustion-engine cousins. Buyers are shunning them due to a lack of subsidies, a desire to wait for better technology and continued shortfalls in charging infrastructures. A fierce price war sparked by Tesla Inc. and competitive Chinese models are further depressing values of new and used cars alike, threatening earnings at rivals like Volkswagen AG and Stellantis NV https://fortune.com/2023/12/22/no-one-wants-to-buy-used-ev-piling-weed-infested-graveyards-tesla-bmw-vw/#amp_tf=From %1%24s&aoh=17033699921745&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Ffortune.com%2F2023%2F12%2F22%2Fno-one-wants-to-buy-used-ev-piling-weed-infested-graveyards-tesla-bmw-vw%2F . A fierce price war sparked by Tesla Inc. and competitive Chinese models are further depressing values of new and used cars alike...???? more affordable EVs and you think no one is buying EVs?????? reality new EV sales will hit 15 million units this year....a record Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 505 GE December 29, 2023 (edited) 1000km range real world demonstrated on live stream. A Chinese EV company developed a battery with a 1,000km range — and its CEO tested it out on a 14-hour livestream (msn.com) CEO William Li put it to the test by livestreaming a 14-hour roadtrip between two Chinese cities. He managed to travel 1,044km without recharging and finished with 3% battery charge still remaining. Edited December 29, 2023 by TailingsPond 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,384 DL January 5 (edited) On 12/18/2023 at 7:41 PM, Jay McKinsey said: Less speculating than you are doing. November EV sales were up 43% in the United States and Canada Nothing there of value...less than1% of the transportation sector is electric, more than 99% is fossil fuel. Edited January 5 by Ecocharger 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,384 DL January 5 (edited) On 12/19/2023 at 4:06 AM, Rob Plant said: How much profit did Tesla make in their first few years of mass production??? Tesla Gross Profit 2010-2023 | TSLA | MacroTrends It takes time to gain market share and this is no different for Ford and its a lot more difficult when competitors have the edge on tech and already have an established brand with significant market share like Tesla already have. If Ford can keep improving on their EV fleet they will gain share just as Audi, Mercedes, etc have done in Europe. Personally when I'm stuck in traffic, if I'm behind a car thats kicking out blue smoke its pretty unpleasant, if I'm stuck behind an EV then I'm breathing fresh air, a far nicer experience. The lifetime CO2 profile of preferred EVs is actually higher than the equivalent fossil fuel vehicles. A complete waste of money to go EV. Edited January 5 by Ecocharger 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,384 DL January 5 (edited) EVs are going to be taxed out of existence. https://www.bbc.com/news/business-63660321 Electric car drivers must pay tax from 2025 "The Local Government Association also welcomed the move, saying that although electric cars are much less harmful for the environment than petrol and diesel cars, they still contribute to carbon emissions, congestion, and wear and tear on roads. "It's only fair then that drivers contribute towards these additional costs and help support investment in even lower carbon alternatives such as public transport, buses, cycling and walking," said its transport spokesperson, David Renard.However, the AA said the introduction of the tax on electric cars would "slow the road to electrification". "This may delay the environmental benefits and stall the introduction of EVs onto the second-hand car market. Unfortunately the chancellor's EV taxation actions will dim the incentive to switch to electric vehicles," said Edmund King, AA president. Nissan, which makes the Leaf electric vehicle, also said it was concerned about the impact on the market, but said it would continue to work with the government "to tackle the main barriers to the electric vehicle transition, including public charging and measures to continue to support the purchase of EVs". Kia, which sells hybrid and fully electric cars, said introducing the tax on EVs was "at odds with the country's net-zero ambitions". In another change unveiled in the Autumn Statement, the exemption for electric cars from the expensive car supplement has also been removed.It means anyone buying a new car - electric or otherwise - priced at more than £40,000 will face having to pay £165 in tax plus a £355 expensive car supplement every year from the second to sixth year of registration. Mike Hawes, chief executive of the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders, said the change to the expensive car supplement was "the sting in the tail" of the announcement, adding it "will unduly penalise these new, more expensive vehicle technologies". Edited January 5 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,102 DM January 5 4 hours ago, Ecocharger said: The lifetime CO2 profile of preferred EVs is actually higher than the equivalent fossil fuel vehicles. A complete waste of money to go EV. and you post nothing to back up your tired bs posts Climate Patrol electric vehicles definitely better for the climate than gas-powered cars https://climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/are-electric-vehicles-definitely-better-climate-gas-powered-cars Yes: although electric cars' batteries make them more carbon-intensive to manufacture than gas cars, they more than make up for it by driving much cleaner under nearly any conditions. October 13, 2022 Although many fully electric vehicles (EVs) carry “zero emissions” badges, this claim is not quite true. Battery-electric cars may not emit greenhouse gases from their tailpipes, but some emissions are created in the process of building and charging the vehicles. Nevertheless, says Sergey Paltsev, Deputy Director of the MIT Joint Program on the Science and Policy of Global Change, electric vehicles are clearly a lower-emissions option than cars with internal combustion engines. Over the course of their driving lifetimes, EVs will create fewer carbon emissions than gasoline-burning cars under nearly any conditions. “We shouldn't claim victory that with this switch to electric cars, problem solved, we are going to have zero emissions,” he says. “No, that's not the case. But electric cars are actually much, much better in terms of the impact on the climate in comparison to internal combustion vehicles. And in time, that comparative advantage of electric cars is going to grow.” One source of EV emissions is the creation of their large lithium-ion batteries. The use of minerals including lithium, cobalt, and nickel, which are crucial for modern EV batteries, requires using fossil fuels to mine those materials and heat them to high temperatures. As a result, building the 80 kWh lithium-ion battery found in a Tesla Model 3 creates between 2.5 and 16 metric tons of CO2 (exactly how much depends greatly on what energy source is used to do the heating).1 This intensive battery manufacturing means that building a new EV can produce around 80% more emissions than building a comparable gas-powered car.2 But just like with gasoline cars, most emissions from today’s EVs come after they roll off the production floor.3 The major source of EV emissions is the energy used to charge their batteries. These emissions, says Paltsev, vary enormously based on where the car is driven and what kind of energy is used there. The best case scenario looks like what’s happening today in Norway, Europe’s largest EV market: the nation draws most of its energy from hydropower, giving all those EVs a minuscule carbon footprint. In countries that get most of their energy from burning dirty coal, the emissions numbers for EVs don’t look nearly as good—but they’re still on par with or better than burning gasoline. To illustrate how EVs create fewer emissions than their counterparts, Paltsev points to MIT’s Insights Into Future Mobility study from 2019.4 This study looked at comparable vehicles like the Toyota Camry and Honda Clarity across their gasoline, hybrid, plug-in hybrid, battery electric, and hydrogen fuel cell configurations. The researchers found that, on average, gasoline cars emit more than 350 grams of CO2 per mile driven over their lifetimes. The hybrid and plug-in hybrid versions, meanwhile, scored at around 260 grams per mile of carbon dioxide, while the fully battery-electric vehicle created just 200 grams. Stats from the U.S. Department of Energy tell a similar story: Using the nationwide average of different energy sources, DOE found that EVs create 3,932 lbs. of CO2 equivalent per year, compared to 5,772 lbs. for plug-in hybrids, 6,258 lbs. for typical hybrids, and 11,435 lbs. for gasoline vehicles.5 MIT’s report shows how much these stats can swing based on a few key factors. For example, when the researchers used the average carbon intensity of America’s power grid, they found that a fully electric vehicle emits about 25 percent less carbon than a comparable hybrid car. But if they ran the numbers assuming the EV would charge up in hydropower-heavy Washington State, they found it would emit 61 percent less carbon than the hybrid. When they did the math for coal-heavy West Virginia, the EV actually created more carbon emissions than the hybrid, but still less than the gasoline car. In fact, Paltsev says, it’s difficult to find a comparison in which EVs fare worse than internal combustion. If electric vehicles had a shorter lifespan than gas cars, that would hurt their numbers because they would have fewer low-emissions miles on the road to make up for the carbon-intensive manufacture of their batteries. Yet when the MIT study calculated a comparison in which EVs lasted only 90,000 miles on the road rather than 180,000 miles, they remained 15 percent better than a hybrid and far better than a gas car. And while internal combustion engines are getting more efficient, EVs are poised to become greener by leaps and bounds as more countries add more clean energy to their mix. MIT’s report sees gasoline cars dropping from more than 350 grams of CO2 per mile to around 225 grams by the year 2050. In that same span, however, battery EVs could drop to around 125 grams, and perhaps even down to 50 grams if the price of renewable energy were to drop significantly. “Once we decarbonize the electric grid—once we get more and more clean sources to the grid—the comparison is getting better and better,” Paltsev says. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,656 RP January 5 2 hours ago, notsonice said: and you post nothing to back up your tired bs posts Thats because he cant Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Smee + 13 SS January 5 Sales in the UK have flatlined. Be interesting to see how sales progress through 2024 and into 2025. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,656 RP January 5 Yes Sales have flatlined but then again with high interest rates and living costs you would expect this with the run up to Christmas and people spending money elsewhere. By the way how was your trip round London checking all those street charging points that you said didnt exist? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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