Ecocharger + 1,473 DL June 25 16 hours ago, notsonice said: Americans have no interest in $10,000 go-karts?????? Yes they do , price matters remember when cheap Japanese cars in the 70s and 80s were considered go-karts???? and the failure ???? it decimated the Big 3's auto lineup of heavy , low MPG clunkers, crappy cars. Japanese took over the low end car market..........and the Big 3???? two of them went bankrupt and required massive bailouts.... The big 3 thought no one wanted one of those Japanese, cheap , go karts Yep, what failed was those who clung onto Clunkers and outdated tech......  nothing has changed since the 70's as fuel-conscious urban consumers will drive the US EV market to evolve to one with cheap, $10,000, compact cars (go-karts as you call them). Compared to your clunkers, the cost to fuel up with electricity is one third the cost . China's market today, that is now dominated by cheap EVs, is not a phenomena that only will happen in China.  The rapid expansion of the Japanese auto industry in the post-war period challenged American automakers on two fronts: design and cost. Japanese cars were smaller and cheaper, designed better for the fuel-conscious urban consumers who began to make up a larger and larger share of the American market.  The Keiretsu Advantage: How Japanese Automakers ... Todays US new car market for urban commuters???? dominated by Toyota and their go-karts EVs are tanking in America and a $10,000 go-kart will not change the landscape one iota. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP June 25 5 hours ago, Ecocharger said: EVs are tanking in America and a $10,000 go-kart will not change the landscape one iota. So youre suggesting that the average US citizen wants to pay more for an ICE vehicle compared to an EV, when ICE would also be more to fuel, and more to service than go with the cheaper EV. I cant think of 1 reason why you would be correct in your assumption. Simple economics wins the day every time Your argument only last year was that EV's were too expensive for the masses and yet your argument now is they are too cheap lol 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM June 25 (edited) 11 hours ago, Rob Plant said: So youre suggesting that the average US citizen wants to pay more for an ICE vehicle compared to an EV, when ICE would also be more to fuel, and more to service than go with the cheaper EV. I cant think of 1 reason why you would be correct in your assumption. Simple economics wins the day every time Your argument only last year was that EV's were too expensive for the masses and yet your argument now is they are too cheap lol Luddites will make up BS reasons why no one will buy an EV...... Reality .......inexpensive EVs have already taken over the Chinese market and what China does best is flood the world with inexpensive products...... only a matter of time before $10,000 to $20,000 EVs are available in every corner of the world..UK will get one soon,,,,, EV  the Dacia Spring   Clunkers are doomed, Cash for Clunkers is in effect for China for 2024  Prices from £14,995 Cheapest variant: Spring Expression The Dacia Sandero sat at the top of the UK’s cheapest new car list for a very long time and now, in the age of the EV, it’s the turn of the Dacia Spring. For a mere £14,995, you can have a brand-new fully-fledged electric car. Edited June 25 by notsonice 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM June 25 (edited) How many of these will sell every year in the UK/EU?????????????   All-New Spring electric city car Dacia UK https://www.dacia.co.uk › Hybrid and electric range     A cleverly designed interior. With its modular design, Spring offers a spacious boot. It also boasts 32.7 L of clever, handy storage compartments, and 4 full- ... ‎Like A City Suv · ‎Plugged In And Hassle-Free · ‎Connected On Every Level    The cheapest electric car in Europe: Dacia Spring ... - V2C  V2C https://v2charge.com › Electric cars     Apr 25, 2024 — With prices starting from 10.265€ in Spain, the Dacia Spring Essential electric model becomes the ultimate choice for budget-conscious electric ... Missing: cost ‎| Show results with: cost  Holy heck, the new Dacia Spring electric car costs £14995 Top Gear https://www.topgear.com › car-news › holy-heck-new-...     Mar 11, 2024 — Dacia has confirmed the Spring will start from just £14,995. Fifteen grand! That makes it the second cheapest new EV available in the UK after ...    Edited June 25 by notsonice Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Polyphia + 83 LT June 26 https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/volkswagen-invest-up-5-billion-rivian-part-tech-joint-venture-2024-06-25/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,473 DL June 26 On 6/24/2024 at 7:30 AM, notsonice said: Americans have no interest in $10,000 go-karts?????? Yes they do , price matters remember when cheap Japanese cars in the 70s and 80s were considered go-karts???? and the failure ???? it decimated the Big 3's auto lineup of heavy , low MPG clunkers, crappy cars. Japanese took over the low end car market..........and the Big 3???? two of them went bankrupt and required massive bailouts.... The big 3 thought no one wanted one of those Japanese, cheap , go karts Yep, what failed was those who clung onto Clunkers and outdated tech......  nothing has changed since the 70's as fuel-conscious urban consumers will drive the US EV market to evolve to one with cheap, $10,000, compact cars (go-karts as you call them). Compared to your clunkers, the cost to fuel up with electricity is one third the cost . China's market today, that is now dominated by cheap EVs, is not a phenomena that only will happen in China.  The rapid expansion of the Japanese auto industry in the post-war period challenged American automakers on two fronts: design and cost. Japanese cars were smaller and cheaper, designed better for the fuel-conscious urban consumers who began to make up a larger and larger share of the American market.  The Keiretsu Advantage: How Japanese Automakers ... Todays US new car market for urban commuters???? dominated by Toyota and their go-karts Will not happen, most middle and lower income Americans cannot invest in home charging capability. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190 June 26 2 hours ago, Ecocharger said: Will not happen, most middle and lower income Americans cannot invest in home charging capability. WTF? A Charger costs $750 last I checked which I guess has probably moved to $1500 now. If you can spend $10k, then $11.5k is no different. IF money is that tight, then you aren't buying a $10k car, you are buying a $5k car. Honestly, have you seen the cost of things? The problem is any $10k car which claims to be "new" is pure garbage death trap. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,007 GE June 27 6 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said: WTF? A Charger costs $750 last I checked which I guess has probably moved to $1500 now. If you can spend $10k, then $11.5k is no different. IF money is that tight, then you aren't buying a $10k car, you are buying a $5k car. Honestly, have you seen the cost of things? The problem is any $10k car which claims to be "new" is pure garbage death trap. We get it. You like to drive old cars worth $5000. You can argue that your cars make the most financial sense - and that might be true - but saying old cars are safer is highly debatable. The old car may have a stronger frame but also probably has worn brakes, tires, suspension, few air bags, etc. If your old tank of a car is fully maintained with new parts it stops being so cheap. Do you really think your old car could win at a stopping distance challenge? Get both cars to 120Km/h and then have them stop as fast as possible at the same mark. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM June 27 (edited) On 6/26/2024 at 8:50 PM, TailingsPond said: We get it. You like to drive old cars worth $5000. You can argue that your cars make the most financial sense - and that might be true - but saying old cars are safer is highly debatable. The old car may have a stronger frame but also probably has worn brakes, tires, suspension, few air bags, etc. If your old tank of a car is fully maintained with new parts it stops being so cheap. Do you really think your old car could win at a stopping distance challenge? Get both cars to 120Km/h and then have them stop as fast as possible at the same mark.  Get both cars to 120Km/h and then have them stop as fast as possible at the same mark. ??? do you think he can get his Fred Flintstone clunker going that fast?????  Edited June 29 by notsonice 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM June 27   Clunkers are doomed  MarkLines Global EV sales up 24.6% to 1.164 million units in May On June 25, MarkLines announced that global electric vehicles (including BEV, PHV and FCV) sales in May increased 24.6% YoY to 1.164 million... . 19 hours ago https://www.marklines.com/en/members/sign_up?unloginurl=%2Fen%2Fnews%2F310262 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,473 DL June 27 50 minutes ago, notsonice said:   Clunkers are doomed  MarkLines Global EV sales up 24.6% to 1.164 million units in May On June 25, MarkLines announced that global electric vehicles (including BEV, PHV and FCV) sales in May increased 24.6% YoY to 1.164 million... . 19 hours ago https://www.marklines.com/en/members/sign_up?unloginurl=%2Fen%2Fnews%2F310262 Year-old data...the EV market is in meltdown since last November. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP June 27 (edited) 5 hours ago, Ecocharger said: Year-old data...the EV market is in meltdown since last November. Facts not your opinion say otherwise! Global EV sales reached 1.1 million units in April 2024, according to EV research-house, Rho Motion, bringing year-to-date (YTD) sales to 4.3 million, 22% greater than the same period in 2023. Battery Electric Vehicles (BEVs) represent 64% of units sold so far in 2024, with the remaining 36% Plug-in Hybrid (PHEV). Over Four Million EVs Sold Globally in 2024 - Rho Motion Data from The International Energy Agency’s Global EV Outlook 2024 makes vibes-based reporting on the demise of EV sales look silly - global EV sales could hit 17 million in 2024, meaning more than one in five cars sold worldwide will be electric. The Vibes Lie: Electric Vehicles Accelerate Toward 50% Of Global Sales (forbes.com) 8 in 10 largest EV markets see growth in May with global sales up by 23 percent 8 in 10 largest EV markets see growth in May with global sales up by 23 percent (renewableenergymagazine.com) Edited June 27 by Rob Plant 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP June 27 Eco if sales in your business were growing by 22-23% y-o-y then I reckon you'd be happy! Anything more than that would be incredibly difficult to manage. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM June 27 6 hours ago, Ecocharger said: Year-old data...the EV market is in meltdown since last November. Year-old data????  so you babble bs when you do not like the facts of what is happening today 20 percent of the global market is now EVs..........where was it a year ago??????  1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,473 DL June 28 On 6/27/2024 at 6:34 AM, Rob Plant said: Facts not your opinion say otherwise! Global EV sales reached 1.1 million units in April 2024, according to EV research-house, Rho Motion, bringing year-to-date (YTD) sales to 4.3 million, 22% greater than the same period in 2023. Battery Electric Vehicles (BEVs) represent 64% of units sold so far in 2024, with the remaining 36% Plug-in Hybrid (PHEV). Over Four Million EVs Sold Globally in 2024 - Rho Motion Data from The International Energy Agency’s Global EV Outlook 2024 makes vibes-based reporting on the demise of EV sales look silly - global EV sales could hit 17 million in 2024, meaning more than one in five cars sold worldwide will be electric. The Vibes Lie: Electric Vehicles Accelerate Toward 50% Of Global Sales (forbes.com) 8 in 10 largest EV markets see growth in May with global sales up by 23 percent 8 in 10 largest EV markets see growth in May with global sales up by 23 percent (renewableenergymagazine.com) Again, you are using year-old data as a base. EVs have been tanking since November 2023 and have lost market share to fossil fuel cars. I know this is sad news for you, but it cannot be bluffed away. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,473 DL June 28 (edited) On 6/27/2024 at 7:56 AM, notsonice said: Year-old data????  so you babble bs when you do not like the facts of what is happening today 20 percent of the global market is now EVs..........where was it a year ago??????  97.5 % of California vehicles are fossil fuel cars. EV sales are almost nothing when the secondary and other transport markets are also included. https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/amount-of-electric-vehicle-owners-by-state Edited June 28 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM June 28 4 hours ago, Ecocharger said: 97.5 % of California vehicles are fossil fuel cars. EV sales are almost nothing when the secondary and other transport markets are also included. https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/amount-of-electric-vehicle-owners-by-state   Clunkers are being retired and the replacements ...........EVs are now over 25 percent of the new car market in California. Which means your clunkers are slowly being replaced with EVs . Enjoy the transition  One in four new cars sold in California are zero-emission (battery electric, plug-in hybrid or fuel cell electric). More ZEVs were sold in California in 2023 than at any point in history, including in Q3 when sales hit their highest share ever at 26.7%.Feb 22, 2024 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM June 28 no stopping the China EV parade....and now it is spreading to the EU  Clunkers are doomed  Investor's Business Daily Tesla's China Rivals Eye Sales Recovery, Cheaper Models Nio seems on track to double EV sales. China EV stocks are expected to benefit from improving demand, cheaper models and new subsidies. . 1 hour ago InsideEVs China-Made EVs Accounted For 18.5% Of All EVs Sold In Europe In May 2024 The latest EV registration data from Europe reveals that the China-made models are already approaching one-fifth of the entire EV segment. . 4 hours ago Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
El Gato + 254 Bs June 28 On 6/26/2024 at 4:22 PM, footeab@yahoo.com said: WTF? A Charger costs $750 last I checked which I guess has probably moved to $1500 now. If you can spend $10k, then $11.5k is no different. IF money is that tight, then you aren't buying a $10k car, you are buying a $5k car. Honestly, have you seen the cost of things? The problem is any $10k car which claims to be "new" is pure garbage death trap. You forgot the cost of the electrician installing said charger, trying to find an electrician to install a charger, having the Electric in building up to code for the charger, Actual charging stations for those in apartments, actual infrastructure in the network to handle more electric vehicles on it. (The Greenies have been killing the American power grid for the last 12 years, so it's bad) Not ot mation Biden's so called infrastucture bill has installed only 8 stations so far in the last year. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
El Gato + 254 Bs June 28 18 minutes ago, notsonice said:   Clunkers are being retired and the replacements ...........EVs are now over 25 percent of the new car market in California. Which means your clunkers are slowly being replaced with EVs . Enjoy the transition  One in four new cars sold in California are zero-emission (battery electric, plug-in hybrid or fuel cell electric). More ZEVs were sold in California in 2023 than at any point in history, including in Q3 when sales hit their highest share ever at 26.7%.Feb 22, 2024 Good luck charging those things with Cali's rolling brown outs Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM June 28 (edited) 15 minutes ago, El Gato said: Good luck charging those things with Cali's rolling brown outs every time your power is disconnected when you do not pay your bill is not a rolling brown out........ Pay your bill and your power will stay on https://paylesspower.com/blog/blackout-tracker/ in 2023 there were none of your rolling brown outs ....so if you power went out  last year .....it was because you did not pay up so far in 2024??????? any brownouts???? none????  looks like all that battery storage coupled with solar panels is paying off   Edited June 28 by notsonice 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190 June 29 1 hour ago, El Gato said: You forgot the cost of the electrician installing said charger, trying to find an electrician to install a charger, having the Electric in building up to code for the charger, Actual charging stations for those in apartments, actual infrastructure in the network to handle more electric vehicles on it. (The Greenies have been killing the American power grid for the last 12 years, so it's bad) Not ot mation Biden's so called infrastucture bill has installed only 8 stations so far in the last year. If you are so incompetent you can't put in an 30A 240V outlet, or divider box off your already existing Dryer outlet in the garage, or just plug the charger into the wall 120V 20A outlet well, what Can I say. You are a pathetic man. Anyways, an electrician for a single 30A 240V outlet is going to run you about $500(includes permit).... Now in Commi states like California, sure it will cost you more. Apartments... --> Yea you are screwed. The actual problem is Thanksgiving, Christmas when EVERYONE travels LONG distance in the cold snow storms and current battery tech is utterly USELESS in these conditions. Completely and UTTERLY useless. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,473 DL June 29 4 hours ago, notsonice said:   Clunkers are being retired and the replacements ...........EVs are now over 25 percent of the new car market in California. Which means your clunkers are slowly being replaced with EVs . Enjoy the transition  One in four new cars sold in California are zero-emission (battery electric, plug-in hybrid or fuel cell electric). More ZEVs were sold in California in 2023 than at any point in history, including in Q3 when sales hit their highest share ever at 26.7%.Feb 22, 2024 Hybrids are fossil fuel cars, in case you did not know. Over 99% of the transportation industry is fossil fuel...wake up, man. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,473 DL June 29 4 hours ago, notsonice said: every time your power is disconnected when you do not pay your bill is not a rolling brown out........ Pay your bill and your power will stay on https://paylesspower.com/blog/blackout-tracker/ in 2023 there were none of your rolling brown outs ....so if you power went out  last year .....it was because you did not pay up so far in 2024??????? any brownouts???? none????  looks like all that battery storage coupled with solar panels is paying off   Not even a tiny drop in the proverbial transportation bucket...EVs will never be the answer to anything. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP July 1 On 6/28/2024 at 7:29 PM, Ecocharger said: Again, you are using year-old data as a base. EVs have been tanking since November 2023 and have lost market share to fossil fuel cars. I know this is sad news for you, but it cannot be bluffed away. Again you cannot read! 1 article is from May 24 the others June 24 and they're a year old??? Man you need help if you think this is 2025! Try reading them, it might change your opinion, but then again you are so blinkered to the truth that you are beyond help. You are the one referencing a November 23 article! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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