Bolsonaro Wins in Brazil

needing to put "far" in front of "left" or "right" when you describe the political identity of a future president is never a good thing but there it is. The far-right candidate won in Brazil. Now what?

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6 minutes ago, Marina Schwarz said:

The far-right candidate won in Brazil. Now what?

I'm guessing the "far-left"  (or anything left of "far-right")  will have a meltdown?

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They already are. But in this guy's case it may not be just a dramatic "far". I've come across some very, let's say, impressive quotes on gays, for example. But let's see how he fares. Obviously, the pendulum has swung again, like it did in Mexico, though in the opposite direction.

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(edited)

Nothing unexpected when you know about scale of Brazilian economic and political crisis= especially corruption scandal. Whole political class was compromised. Its not a good information for future of Brazil but all BRICS countries now have serious problems.

I didnt watch a lot of Rio Olympic games but OG in a country with 4 % recession in 2016 must have been awkward for everyone.

Edited by Tomasz

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On 10/29/2018 at 10:25 AM, Marina Schwarz said:

needing to put "far" in front of "left" or "right" when you describe the political identity of a future president is never a good thing but there it is.

 

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So... how often does one actually see the term "Far Left" in Mainstream Media?

Asking for a friend.

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4 hours ago, mthebold said:

 

What Tom said.  20-30 years ago, "Far Right" would have been called "Centrist".  To wit: the liberal, American politicians calling Trump anti-immigration today are on record 10-20 years ago saying exactly what Trump is saying.  

That shift isn't an accident; the left explicitly uses conceptual framing to guide conversation, public opinion, etc.  I.e. they deliberately manipulate to achieve political goals.  In America, this "framing" takes the form of appeals to decency: if you don't support illegal immigration/feminism/whatever, then clearly you're racist/sexist/whatever. Essentially, they use framing to perform character assassination on anyone they disagree with.

Their manipulation slowly intensified during the Obama administration.  With the support of federal governments around the world, they learned they could say whatever they wanted w/o consequence.  Unfortunately, manipulation (and economic irresponsibility) breed resentment.  Average citizens are tiring of their childishness and returning to the centrism of 20-30 years ago.  

 

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P.S. in the ongoing meme war online, Twitter and Facebook are totally freaking out trying to squash memes. 

The purge against NPC memes was quite something to see.  So far, Twitter and Facebook still have to manually "flag" memes which do not meet their "standards".  No computer automated way yet exists for AI or algorithms to find, flag and remove "offensive" memes.

The authoritarian panic...  it's ... beautiful  : )

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I suspect there is a major difference in what people consider left/right in different parts of the world. From a post-totalitarian perspective, the U.S Democratic party is so far from left it's funny when someone calls them left. Perhaps things are similar with Bolsonaro although I did come across a quote from him regarding his views on gays that smacked of yes, far-right in its suggestion of utmost intolerance these days more typical of the far-left, which to me are all those radicals who have well and truly forgotten the original idea of leveling the playing field not just for a select few marginalized groups but for, I don't know, everyone. So, Tom, I don't really care if MSM use the term far-left. I certainly do.

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Marina, I think we agree more than disagree on this.  Neither you nor I live in the U.S. and so probably view the U.S. MSM a bit differently than some others.

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Even if we do get our regular fill of them, yes.

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16 hours ago, mthebold said:

That shift isn't an accident; the left explicitly uses conceptuaframing to guide conversation, public opinion, etc.  I.e. they deliberately manipulate to achieve political goals.  In America, this "framing" takes the form of appeals to decency: if you don't support illegal immigration/feminism/whatever, then clearly you're racist/sexist/whatever. Essentially, they use framing to perform character assassination on anyone they disagree with.

Semi-serious question : Is it only the left in the states that does this? Are both sides not equally good at it? 

 

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On 10/29/2018 at 3:34 AM, Tom Kirkman said:

I'm guessing the "far-left"  (or anything left of "far-right")  will have a meltdown?

I must confess..... I got really intimidated by your profile 

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6 minutes ago, Westy said:

I must confess..... I got really intimidated by your profile 

Really?  Why?  I'm just a cranky old fart who loves to talk about oil & gas.

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1 minute ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Really?  Why?  I'm just a cranky old fart who loves to talk about oil & gas.

Yes.... I am like wow... he knows so much .... well I love oil and gas as well ...

 

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Well, thanks for your kind words.  Just keep asking questions, keep an open mind, and keep learning.  Curiosity is a great tool that anyone can use.

Recommended reading: https://www.oilystuffblog.com

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2 hours ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

Semi-serious question : Is it only the left in the states that does this? Are both sides not equally good at it? 

 

Well, that depends on what side you ask, doesn't it?  "MY party doesn't do it, but the OTHER party sure does."  LOL.

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2 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Well, thanks for your kind words.  Just keep asking questions, keep an open mind, and keep learning.  Curiosity is a great tool that anyone can use.

Recommended reading: https://www.oilystuffblog.com

Thanks sir, well just a little description .... I’m a Nigerian,just obtained a b.tech in Petroleum Engineering.... pls you can always send me relevant links and info.... I will appreciate 

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On 11/5/2018 at 3:23 AM, mthebold said:

That shift isn't an accident; the left explicitly uses conceptual framing to guide conversation, public opinion, etc.  I.e. they deliberately manipulate to achieve political goals.  In America, this "framing" takes the form of appeals to decency: if you don't support illegal immigration/feminism/whatever, then clearly you're racist/sexist/whatever. Essentially, they use framing to perform character assassination on anyone they disagree with.

A bit difficult these days to get a proper definition of "Free Speech" and "Hate Speech".

Judging by the mass censorship and waves of purges of conservatives on Twitter and Facebook this year, it would appear that "Hate Speech" is anything that doesn't agree with a Globalist agenda.

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1 hour ago, Tom Kirkman said:

 

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P.S. Gab is back online.  Twitter and Facebook lost this round of censorship.

BRB, time for me to spew some more memes in the online meme war (don't worry, I won't spew memes here, this is primarily an oil & gas forum, and not a Freedom of Speech battleground).

P.P.S. have you met my old Freedom of Speech sock, Malaysian anon AKA Yellow Card?  Fun times.

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2 hours ago, mthebold said:

The average rightist studies something practical, observe the world around them, and presents their frame with intent to discuss

"presents their frame with intent to discuss"

"presents their frame with intent to discuss"

Worth repeating.  In fact, anything less is force.  Most people, if asked, would tell you that they don't like arrogant people, but, to me at least, it is the ultimate arrogance to think that you know enough about any subject that you will not discuss it.  Throw in empathy for your fellow human being and the realization that your fellow human being may have a wholly valid perspective* that may seem unreasonable in your eyes.  That's how perspective works: it takes into account other people's eyes.

I love these words:

"presents their frame with intent to discuss"

 

* Definition of perspective from the Cambridge dictionary:

perspective

[ C/U ] a particular way of viewing things that depends on one’sexperience and personality:

[ C ] He brings a new perspective to the job.
[ C ] From a social perspective, I am very much a liberal, although my economicpolicies are very conservative.

[ C/U ] Perspective also means the ability to consider things inrelation to one another accurately and fairly:

[ U ] With more maturity and experience, you will gradually acquire perspective.
in perspective

If something is in perspective, it is considered as part of acomplete situation so that you have an accurate and fairunderstanding of it:

Let's try to talk about both sides of the issue and put it in perspective.
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@Dan Warnick  my degree is in Sociology, and I have a Liberal Arts education.  Your observations above are worth noting.

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6 minutes ago, mthebold said:

My background is not in sociology; do you see anything about my perspective I could improve? 

Heck no, you are far better than I am at dissecting and deconstructing assorted narratives. All I would suggest is to keep questioning and poking around intellectually, you seem pretty skilled at it.

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55 minutes ago, mthebold said:

My background is not in sociology; do you see anything about my perspective I could improve? 

You publicly show a willingness to learn, to see things from other's perspectives, and to discuss, and those are admirable traits that not everyone is capable of showing, at least not in public.  ALL of these qualities, in order to work, require constant self-appraisal.  So I would suggest that we all endeavor to keep our eyes and ears and, most importantly our brains, open to new information and learn all we can.

Just yesterday, my wife and I faced an, albeit minor, emotionally charged situation (we had a spat!) and if I had not stopped and considered her perspective, it would have ended at a much higher, unnecessary level.  And if I had thrown a label at her it would have all gone down the tubes.  Thankfully, and to some degree because of the reflections of individuals on this site, including yours, I was actually able to step back emotionally and find a brighter path.

Have a great day, everyone.

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21 hours ago, Marina Schwarz said:

I suspect there is a major difference in what people consider left/right in different parts of the world. From a post-totalitarian perspective, the U.S Democratic party is so far from left it's funny when someone calls them left. Perhaps things are similar with Bolsonaro although I did come across a quote from him regarding his views on gays that smacked of yes, far-right in its suggestion of utmost intolerance these days more typical of the far-left, which to me are all those radicals who have well and truly forgotten the original idea of leveling the playing field not just for a select few marginalized groups but for, I don't know, everyone. So, Tom, I don't really care if MSM use the term far-left. I certainly do.

Half of America seems to follow the Constitution of The United States of America and use it as a reference point to what government should stand for. The other half seems to ignore the Constitution unless it is convenient for them. The abuse of the meaning of the word liberal is another problem. Classical liberalism was open minded and full of ideas of all kinds. Modern leftists who consider themselves liberal are actually authoritarians who think that everyone must agree with them or they are damnable deplorables who do not deserve free speech. Europe has already given up on religious and some other forms of free speech. You can be thrown in jail for criticizing Islam. The tactics of the left in America can be seen in the many ways the Obama Administration corrupted the American government and the prepared attacks made on President Trump after he defeated Hillary Clinton.The lowest tactics are not too low for leftists. The American left has no objection to communist totalitarian governments as in China. They just want to get rich doing business with them. 

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Ahhh, don't even get me started on linguistic abuse. The consequences can be so far-reaching and so horrible it's crazy so few people even stop to think about it. We'll eventually bring ourselves to a point where anything you disagree with you could call hate speech and demand legal responsibility from the culprit.

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