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POTUS Trump signs the HK Bill

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This is bad news. The USA has now made China a complete adversary, in law and policy. The repercussions of this will be profound and continue long into the future.

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If you can’t give your citizens the right to criticize governments and let them demand change you shouldn’t be in government. If you can’t embrace freedom don’t expect to keep trade open. Well we can hope. Lol

 

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It's non-news. The market barely budged on it.

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3 hours ago, Boat said:

If you can’t give your citizens the right to criticize governments and let them demand change you shouldn’t be in government. If you can’t embrace freedom don’t expect to keep trade open. Well we can hope. Lol

 

indeed, consider the plight of Mr Assange. 

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(edited)

On 11/28/2019 at 6:05 AM, frankfurter said:

consider the plight of Mr Assange

Indeed Frankfurter, and his condition deteriorating. From the varying forums I have perused since arrival, a number of comments seem a little one sided when it comes to criticism of governments. Would this be fair?

Edited by Papillon
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This is a political decision all based around Trump actively decoupling from China, regarding the trade war.

Its no big deal, its just posturing.

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I agree that Assange has been treated unfairly and harshly, but he is one person. China is persecuting millions of Muslims, other religions, and anyone who opposes their dictatorial policies. 

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4 hours ago, ronwagn said:

I agree that Assange has been treated unfairly and harshly, but he is one person. China is persecuting millions of Muslims, other religions, and anyone who opposes their dictatorial policies. 

Your comment cements the dumbed-down assertion.  Have you travelled throughout China?  Where is the proof of your millions?  You believe what your read in the bigoted MSM? Where is their proof?  Have you any idea what persecution means?  Rather than focus your imagination against something you have zero knowledge, why not instead focus upon what is real?  ASSANGE IS PERSECUTED, FOR NO REASON. He has committed no crime, not founded a political movement, nor is a member of any banned religious sect. A crime against humanity needs but one instance, and is no less than a crime against many: numbers are irrelevant to the ideal. You and all Americans must withdraw your heads from the sand, for you will be the next Assange.  "... Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee..."  

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(edited)

1 hour ago, frankfurter said:

"... Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee..."  

Very nicely put sir. While perusing threads it seems conclusively evident to me there is an anti Chinese narrative, and it also seems clear that many of these same posters make claims of 'fake news'. Indeed, which is it therefore? When the media make claims of Donald Trump it is fake, but when the claims attack China they are true? There seems to me a slight oddity within this dynamic. 

That said I agree with Zhong Lu that it was not dramatic news, more accurately hype connected to the trade conflicts that will not come to a great deal I imagine. 

Edited by Papillon
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I have travelled many times to China.

the people I find there to be very welcoming and genuinely interested in my culture and way of life as I am in theirs.

i don’t think they are persecuted per se however there is definitely a one sided narrative from the state which the average person is scared to speak out against for fear of reprisals.

i think it is demonstrated quite well in how internet access is controlled and in some cases censored by the state to continue the “belief” in the system and state and yes to dumb down what is believed.

the recent increase in controlling the masses by the state regarding facial recognition etc etc is yet another example. This may well become the norm in many countries, time will tell.

i am not anti China and the Chinese people but anti their regime.

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I think Ron was referring to the situation in HK but I don’t want to put words in his mouth

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(edited)

I see sir. Thankyou for the clarification. I was merely making reference to Julian Assange's plight and severe condition and the general theme of Chinese life. I did not mean to imply you had any grievances with the people there. My sincerest apologies if it came across in that manner. That was not the intention. 

That said, what would your thoughts be regarding the 'fake news' section of my text?

With all due respect, if by 'Ron' you are referencing ronwagn, he mentioned only Assange and seemed to jump straight to 'millions of muslims' within China. It had precisely zero to do with the Hong Kong bill I believe? 

Edited by Papillon
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No offence taken at all, no apology needed😄

I have never claimed “fake news” in any thread topic, the reason being almost all media has some form of bias and will lend weight in a subject accordingly. There are downright lies every day from all sides, frankly I’m bored by it now. I choose to listen to knowledgeable people on platforms such as this instead mostly.

I do obviously see the “news” and try to interpret to the best of my ability what is factual and what isn’t.

There is bias on this platform as you would expect as it’s largely people’s opinions. Don’t take offence by them as it’s everyone’s right to have one (that is one reason I don’t like the China regime) but there are some very bright knowledgeable people on here (not me) so stick with it!

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By the way I will let Ron (ronwagn) reply to your last paragraph as it’s his words to defend. As I say I don’t want to put words in his mouth.

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4 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Don’t take offence by them as it’s everyone’s right to have one

Not at all sir, it was merely an observation from myself regarding Donald Trump and China, that being some media is considered false and some instantly believed, depending on the topic and the bias as you say. I agree that weight can be lended accordingly. Thankyou for the detailed reply. 

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12 hours ago, frankfurter said:

Your comment cements the dumbed-down assertion.  Have you travelled throughout China?  Where is the proof of your millions?  You believe what your read in the bigoted MSM? Where is their proof?  Have you any idea what persecution means?  Rather than focus your imagination against something you have zero knowledge, why not instead focus upon what is real?  ASSANGE IS PERSECUTED, FOR NO REASON. He has committed no crime, not founded a political movement, nor is a member of any banned religious sect. A crime against humanity needs but one instance, and is no less than a crime against many: numbers are irrelevant to the ideal. You and all Americans must withdraw your heads from the sand, for you will be the next Assange.  "... Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee..."  

Almost 2,000 stories on China to educate you. My collection https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Wb2YoQGpSWTz32ljsiA_ey6FLVqc2Dpe7Fnpiqn9lBs/edit

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12 hours ago, Papillon said:

Very nicely put sir. While perusing threads it seems conclusively evident to me there is an anti Chinese narrative, and it also seems clear that many of these same posters make claims of 'fake news'. Indeed, which is it therefore? When the media make claims of Donald Trump it is fake, but when the claims attack China they are true? There seems to me a slight oddity within this dynamic. 

That said I agree with Zhong Lu that it was not dramatic news, more accurately hype connected to the trade conflicts that will not come to a great deal I imagine. 

Almost 2,000 stories on China to educate you. My collection https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Wb2YoQGpSWTz32ljsiA_ey6FLVqc2Dpe7Fnpiqn9lBs/edit

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11 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

I think Ron was referring to the situation in HK but I don’t want to put words in his mouth

No, I am referring to the millions fo people being persecuted in China and the general lack of freedom that is getting worse under Emperor for Life XI. I have done my homework. It is here Almost 2,000 stories on China to educate you. My collection https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Wb2YoQGpSWTz32ljsiA_ey6FLVqc2Dpe7Fnpiqn9lBs/edit

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11 hours ago, Papillon said:

I see sir. Thankyou for the clarification. I was merely making reference to Julian Assange's plight and severe condition and the general theme of Chinese life. I did not mean to imply you had any grievances with the people there. My sincerest apologies if it came across in that manner. That was not the intention. 

That said, what would your thoughts be regarding the 'fake news' section of my text?

With all due respect, if by 'Ron' you are referencing ronwagn, he mentioned only Assange and seemed to jump straight to 'millions of muslims' within China. It had precisely zero to do with the Hong Kong bill I believe? 

Whereas you mention one man who is not even in America and has been IMHO abused and jump to implying that is symbolic of the way Americans are treated. Assange is not even an American. I am fond of him and what he has exposed however. Assange has suffered enough and should be let free ASAP IMHO. 

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(edited)

13 hours ago, ronwagn said:

Whereas you mention one man who is not even in America and has been IMHO abused and jump to implying that is symbolic of the way Americans are treated.

Not at all sir - I merely mentioned Mr Assange at all as his plight was referenced by Frankfurter. I was not suggesting in any sense this is how Americans are treated. As you say, he is not even American. That would not make a great deal of sense or have bearing on the conversation. 

My point was simply that the bias here is very apparent. Though I appreciate your 'effort', your personal collection of China stories, that you felt the need to copy and paste to three persons, is of little consequence. Given time I am sure everybody here could make their own collection of atrocities Americans have committed round the globe? It does not change anything or even solve anything to talk in these terms. Besides, let he who is without sin cast the first stone. America is far from 'free of sin' in this sense. Ask Assange, Vietnam, or indeed the whole of the Middle East. We could all make lists sir but it is to me pure folly.

I have not admittedly been a member here long at all, merely a matter of days, but already it is very evident that you have bias. As Mr Plant rightly suggests, everyone has opinion and rightly so. I am far from China's biggest fan, I am half Japanese and half English if that is of interest. However every conversation title of yourself involves China in some form I believe, aside from your recent one, which instead references Marxism. This page for example is about the HK bill and somehow you took that to muslims within mainland China, then your copy and paste stories. Additionally, I have even just seen a thread about Trump and Iran where you make reference to Chinese atheism!!?

My point about bias was that Americans have adopted the phrase 'fake news' but are happy, on here atleast, to believe everything in their media if connected to China? I think this was Frankfurter's point and this was all I tried to reference and allude to. I trust this clarifies sir. 

Edited by Papillon
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On 11/28/2019 at 7:18 PM, Rob Plant said:

This is a political decision all based around Trump actively decoupling from China, regarding the trade war.

??

It all seems to be running to plan (if you are speaking from China's perspective) as the punitive effects are falling on US consumers, although from Trump's perspective it was a flop in terms of diverting media attention from his likely impeachment.

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(edited)

It seems my detailed and factual reply simply achieved a little yellow face with its eyes looking upwards sir? Was I wrong to expect a rational response? You seem to have the time to research your varying Chinese stories, but offer no reply to any of my text about what I assume is your home country? This truly speaks volumes. 

Edited by Papillon

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10 hours ago, remake it said:

??

It all seems to be running to plan (if you are speaking from China's perspective) as the punitive effects are falling on US consumers, although from Trump's perspective it was a flop in terms of diverting media attention from his likely impeachment.

You truly couldn’t be more wrong on every point as usual

what rubbish do you read? If in fact you aren’t an AI bot as I suspect you are.

jeez!

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