China gets caught?

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

So, recruiting spies is legal? In a nutshell, this is what China was doing...and got caught.

Face it, every intelligence service on the planet routinely tries to recruit ‘spies’, it only becomes an issue, and rightly so, when they get caught.

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

1 hour ago, Douglas Buckland said:

So, recruiting spies is legal? In a nutshell, this is what China was doing...and got caught.

Face it, every intelligence service on the planet routinely tries to recruit ‘spies’, it only becomes an issue, and rightly so, when they get caught.

Very few top scientists are spies, it would be much easier to plant grad students or technicians to steal an idea. 

This was just some greedy dude not following his code of ethics - highly doubtful an actual "agent" of China; if so he would be tried for treason or something.

Yes, hiring away top talent is legal.  How many of you oil guys worked overseas? Haha! You damn spies! Did you teach locals oil extraction?

Edited January 31, 2020 by Enthalpic

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

50 minutes ago, Enthalpic said:

Yes, hiring away top talent is legal

Operative term, "away". If I'm collecting a check from Halliburton while I'm working at Baker Hughes, I'm a spy.

China didn't want him in China, they wanted him right where he was, feeding them intel. 

[SERWIN + 749]

On 1/28/2020 at 6:19 PM, Ward Smith said:

Don't know how many of you caught This article about a Harvard professor caught taking money from the Chinese (and likely passing them info). 

 

  Oh my, does this mean to suggest that China knows they aren't smart enough to develop their own technologies, so they steal it now? When has this become an issue?

  And if I were in charge of a top secret program and found out that one of the insiders was selling information to ANYONE, I would either turn their name over to Helliary and tell her they have very damaging information against her or I would have someone put a bullet in their head.... Or I might do it myself just for the satisfaction....

[SERWIN + 749]

17 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

So, recruiting spies is legal? In a nutshell, this is what China was doing...and got caught.

Face it, every intelligence service on the planet routinely tries to recruit ‘spies’, it only becomes an issue, and rightly so, when they get caught.

My gosh, how could they have sunk so low, stealing technologies. When did this become an issue? I'm waiting for Remake It to extol us with his wisdom about the great Chinese intellect now.... Still waiting..... Still waiting.....

I guess he does not have any useful information to tell us on this one. Like how the Chinese were probably SENDING the professor info, not taking it form him....

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

2 minutes ago, SERWIN said:

My gosh, how could they have sunk so low, stealing technologies. When did this become an issue? I'm waiting for Remake It to extol us with his wisdom about the great Chinese intellect now.... Still waiting..... Still waiting.....

I guess he does not have any useful information to tell us on this one. Like how the Chinese were probably SENDING the professor info, not taking it form him....

The person doing the theft was an American. *gasp*  China just bought the stolen goods.

Perhaps, much of your problem is domestic criminals?

Edited January 31, 2020 by Enthalpic

[SERWIN + 749]

Just now, Enthalpic said:

The person doing the theft was an American. *gasp*  They just bought the stolen goods.

But the Chinese were the ones that paid for and took the stolen information, and that makes them just as guilty. I wonder what they were working on that the Chinese wanted so badly that it would risk ruining relations with the US again? 

And that professor is not a true American, he's a low life scum sucking thief, probably a left leaning moronic libtard that justified to himself what he was doing, and he deserves to be shot. But if we can convict him he'll sadly only go to a minimum security prison. I think we need to bring back hanging...

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

7 minutes ago, SERWIN said:

 

And that professor is not a true American, he's a low life scum sucking thief, probably a left leaning moronic libtard that justified to himself what he was doing, and he deserves to be shot. But if we can convict him he'll sadly only go to a minimum security prison. I think we need to bring back hanging...

Seek help.  You are the portrait of someone who should not be allowed to own guns.

 

Edited January 31, 2020 by Enthalpic

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

6 minutes ago, SERWIN said:

But the Chinese were the ones that paid for and took the stolen information, and that makes them just as guilty. I wonder what they were working on that the Chinese wanted so badly that it would risk ruining relations with the US again?

His research group works on nanotechnology and biological-machine interfaces.

[SERWIN + 749]

Just now, Enthalpic said:

Seek help.  You are the portrait of someone who should not be allowed to own guns.

There is no help for me, and I would bet that a lot of us Americans feel the same way. About spies and libtards alike. And yet, I have owned guns for decades and never shot another human being. Hmmmm

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

10 minutes ago, SERWIN said:

 

And that professor is not a true American, he's a low life scum sucking thief, probably a left leaning moronic libtard that justified to himself what he was doing, and he deserves to be shot.

Moronic.. but also the Harvard guy who comes up with the cool "American" technology you are so proud of.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

16 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

How many of you oil guys worked overseas? Haha! You damn spies! Did you teach locals oil extraction?

First time I've ever been called a spy.

Life is weird.

[SERWIN + 749]

Just now, Enthalpic said:

Moronic.. but also the Harvard guy who comes up with the cool "American" technology you are so proud of.

Yeah, selling information to someone while working for someone else is a MORONIC move, you can be a certified genius and still act like a moron!

[SERWIN + 749]

5 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

First time I've ever been called a spy.

Life is weird.

You are a spy now? I've never been called a spy. Been called an asshole a lot of times though. Warms my heart to know that my efforts are rewarded with the appropriate recognition it deserves.... It means I am doing my job correctly

 

 

[SERWIN + 749]

12 minutes ago, SERWIN said:

Yeah, selling information to someone while working for someone else is a MORONIC move, you can be a certified genius and still act like a moron!

No different than the guy you are friends with, really a great guy. Stable, calm, dependable. But get him behind the wheel of an automobile and he turns into Head Asshole on the Road. People are funny, you know?

[0R0 + 6,251]

On 1/28/2020 at 11:55 PM, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Simple: Kick all foreign born(non US citizen) Grad students out of all R&D at publicly funded universities.  If you want an education: Fine.  It will not be in R&D though. 

That would mean 72% of the R&D Grad students. Americans will not do it - not as well, and often not at all. That would put US R&D in the gutter. Already, a dearth of willing US talent has brought US companies to conduct research and development in many countries around the world. For decades, Israel had a duplication of Silicon Valley North of Tel Aviv where nearly all companies have some R&D facility. Similarly in India, and in Shenzhen. Many other centers in Europe. It is in large part due to the attempt to restrict immigration that the US lost its internal lead and had to spread out its recruitment and operations outside the country. Without these folks, the US academic structure in STEM is toast.

The correct thing to do is to assure their loyalty and invite them to stay after graduation. Not treat them like an invading force. 

 

[0R0 + 6,251]

@Ward Smith

Chilling final quote from the article 

  Quote

Chinese military’s interest in biology as an emerging domain of warfare is guided by strategists who talk about potential “genetic weapons” and the possibility of a “bloodless victory.”

 

•  

Actually, it is Ironic that the Wuhan Coronavirus is partially selective to male Han Chinese, who have appx. 2.5% of their cells with the target receptor for the virus, as opposed to Han Chinese Women and European males with about 0.5%. So it is more virulent in that group. 

[0R0 + 6,251]

I think the US is trying to steer the R&D people from working in China, teaching there, or working for China in the US or anywhere. The big deal with Lieber is that he worked extensively in and with China and got paid very well for it while working for DOD projects, which would have disqualified him from the DOD projects and was thus required in disclosure, which he didn't till after the fact. This is a high profile case that is intended to stop cooperation with China, which has been pretty much one way. 

As in the aftermath of WWII at the start of the cold war, the US should be INVITING Chinese researchers into the US permanently along with their families. Same for those of other countries with less friendly relations with the US. The brain drain into the US till the 2000's is what US tech leadership has been living on since then and to this day. It is very scary that the US has failed to retain this attraction so that special skills visas are down some 60%. You can't do more damage to a country than buy off its highest talent and import it away from them.

 

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

3 hours ago, 0R0 said:

That would mean 72% of the R&D Grad students. Americans will not do it - not as well, and often not at all. That would put US R&D in the gutter. Already, a dearth of willing US talent has brought US companies to conduct research and development in many countries around the world. For decades, Israel had a duplication of Silicon Valley North of Tel Aviv where nearly all companies have some R&D facility. Similarly in India, and in Shenzhen. Many other centers in Europe. It is in large part due to the attempt to restrict immigration that the US lost its internal lead and had to spread out its recruitment and operations outside the country. Without these folks, the US academic structure in STEM is toast.

The correct thing to do is to assure their loyalty and invite them to stay after graduation. Not treat them like an invading force.

Just no.  Foreign students are there for the perceived education. Not the R&D.  And your numbers are bollocks, or our Uni's are being flooded currently which kicks out USA students.  As one of those Grad students myself a couple decades ago there were next to NO foreign students(engineering) and in medicine where my sister went there were none at all. 

New products do not come out of Uni R&D.  This is one of those lies that keeps getting told.  Gives an avenue to possibly develop a new product.  The few that do, can't get loans in the US currently due to financial institutions sending all their $$$ to foreign countries who are more than willing to nearly 50%-->100% subsidize the manufacturing plant.  Look no further than CREE for a modern example where foreign manufacturing plants get SUBSIDIZED by US tax payers for shipping which makes delivery of product cheaper from the other side of the ocean than from city to city delivery in the USA. 

How slanderous/dumb are you?  Immigration has been at an all time high for the last half century.  Makes anything that has come before look like twiddly winks other than a small window at beginning of 20th century. 

[0R0 + 6,251]

1 hour ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Just no.  Foreign students are there for the perceived education. Not the R&D.  And your numbers are bollocks, or our Uni's are being flooded currently which kicks out USA students.  As one of those Grad students myself a couple decades ago there were next to NO foreign students(engineering) and in medicine where my sister went there were none at all. 

New products do not come out of Uni R&D.  This is one of those lies that keeps getting told.  Gives an avenue to possibly develop a new product.  The few that do, can't get loans in the US currently due to financial institutions sending all their $$$ to foreign countries who are more than willing to nearly 50%-->100% subsidize the manufacturing plant.  Look no further than CREE for a modern example where foreign manufacturing plants get SUBSIDIZED by US tax payers for shipping which makes delivery of product cheaper from the other side of the ocean than from city to city delivery in the USA. 

How slanderous/dumb are you?  Immigration has been at an all time high for the last half century.  Makes anything that has come before look like twiddly winks other than a small window at beginning of 20th century. 

Not a single point you made is correct.

1. The studies ARE the R&D. The classes are insubstantial. You can learn that from a book, and now online. The research is the educational program.

2. The competition is tough in the top schools. Everywhere else, they take whomever can pay or do research and get to the finish line with a degree. If they waited for US born students to come into grad schools, then half or more of them would close because they could not get grants due to student's inability to do the job. None would rank at the top of the international scale and getting a degree from them would be worth far less. US schools are great because they pick grad students from the best schools around the world. The cream of the crop from 7 billion people. Not a pool of 300 mil.

3. Practically all of the R&D done commercially starts from non-commercial research done at universities. The LED technology and ability to work on improving it and the production processes came from academic research. 

4. Funding for production in the US is difficult because US interest rates are higher, as are return expectations and manufacturing is capital intensive. It requires a physical plant and going through a regulatory gauntlet to get it approved. American firms prefer to manufacture near their markets, particularly in the US. States like CA practically all but shoot at the manufacturers. If you are a high tech production firm then you need to get to market fast you can't wait for everyone to approve your plant and go through the lawsuits to be decided. So you go to where you are welcome, and subsidies don't hurt, but they are the least of the problems facing a US  manufacturing project competing with a foreign location. You are correct as far as China goes, because they also offer cheap financing on very weak covenants. In the past they stuck you with a worthless domestic partner that ended up producing your product and competing with you just months after your first product ships. They have switched to letting you control the whole venture, so they managed to entice Tesla.

5. If you are talking Mexican immigration and asylum seekers, then yes, though Mexican immigration has fallen substantially over the last decade. STEM immigrants and graduates from US universities staying in the US have fallen off steadily for decades.We are talking about a very specific kind of immigration. 

I suggest you go check the facts. Look at what is going on in your closest major university science and engineering departments as to who does the research and where the faculty came from. You seem to be overcome with emotion and unwilling to check facts. 

Edited February 1, 2020 by 0R0

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

Chinese national Zaosong Zheng accused of stealing vials of biological materials from Boston's Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, trying to smuggle the items to China

A Chinese researcher has been accused of trying to smuggle vials of biological materials out of the country that authorities allege he stole from Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston.

The U.S. Attorney announced Tuesday that Zaosong Zheng, a 30-year-old Chinese citizen is being charged with making a false, fictitious and fraudulent statement after being stopped by U.S. Customs and Border Protection at Logan International Airport on Dec. 10 as he was preparing to board a flight for Beijing, China. 

The announcement was one of three cases the U.S. Attorney’s office said were just the latest in “a massive, long-term campaign to steal U.S. technology.”

According to court documents, U.S. Customs agents identified Zheng as “at high risk” for possibly exporting undeclared biological materials.

Agents accessed Zheng’s luggage and discovered 21 vials wrapped in plastic bags and concealed in a sock, records state. The vials contained brown liquid and included hand-written labels and notes. Zheng is accused of taking the vials from the medical center on Dec. 9.  ...

 

...  Spice’s report states Zheng was then brought to an interview room where he confessed he had stolen the vials from Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center “and that no one was aware of this.”

According to Spice, Zheng said he spent two to three months replicating the research of Zhang Tao and that he’d also replicated 11 vials of Tao’s research. He stated that the hospital was unaware.

Spice’s report alleges Zheng told agents he intended to bring the materials back to his lab at Sun Yat-Sen Memorial Hospital in China for further analysis and that if the research was successful he had planned to publish a paper in his own name.  ...

 

Related Content:

‘Massive, long-term campaign to steal U.S. technology’ alleged as Chinese lieutenant, Harvard University professor, researcher accused of hiding ties with China

Chinese People’s Liberation Army lieutenant, Yanqing Ye, assessed US military websites, researched professors while studying at Boston University, federal authorities say

Read the indictments: Harvard University chairman Charles Lieber, two Chinese nationals charged with hiding ties to China

Who is Charles Lieber, Harvard scientist accused of lying about money received from Chinese government-run program

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

8 hours ago, 0R0 said:

That would mean 72% of the R&D Grad students. Americans will not do it - not as well, and often not at all. That would put US R&D in the gutter. Already, a dearth of willing US talent has brought US companies to conduct research and development in many countries around the world. For decades, Israel had a duplication of Silicon Valley North of Tel Aviv where nearly all companies have some R&D facility. Similarly in India, and in Shenzhen. Many other centers in Europe. It is in large part due to the attempt to restrict immigration that the US lost its internal lead and had to spread out its recruitment and operations outside the country. Without these folks, the US academic structure in STEM is toast.

The correct thing to do is to assure their loyalty and invite them to stay after graduation. Not treat them like an invading force. 

 

Bullshit!

[Marcin2 + 725]

4 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Chinese national Zaosong Zheng accused of stealing vials of biological materials from Boston's Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, trying to smuggle the items to China

A Chinese researcher has been accused of trying to smuggle vials of biological materials out of the country that authorities allege he stole from Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston.

The U.S. Attorney announced Tuesday that Zaosong Zheng, a 30-year-old Chinese citizen is being charged with making a false, fictitious and fraudulent statement after being stopped by U.S. Customs and Border Protection at Logan International Airport on Dec. 10 as he was preparing to board a flight for Beijing, China. 

The announcement was one of three cases the U.S. Attorney’s office said were just the latest in “a massive, long-term campaign to steal U.S. technology.”

Tom, another example how we shoot ourselves in a foot.

At least 50,000 Chinese are engaged in R&D in US, the similar number of Americans are engaged in R&D in China.

I do not think that providing a few examples a year in total and tagging it: just the latest in “a massive, long-term campaign to steal U.S. technology.” makes us any good.

The atmosphere of suspision towards ALL Chinese-born (whether citizens for 30 years or not) scientists is perceived in a very negative way among scientistis. Remember that majority of people engaged in top R&D in US are foreign-born.

I am afraid that unintended consequences of this campaign would be that China would be able to attract more foreign talent, especially talent from the United States.

How do you think:

Are US spies or simply dishonest scientists from US being caught in China ?

Sure they are, but they are not making headlines for a month about each such case.

Because long-term planning is more important. Scientists are pedigree of people that need safety and staiblity in order to conduct their everyday duties. They have IQ much above average so you cannot talk to them with MSM simplified language.

Edited February 1, 2020 by Marcin2
typo

[0R0 + 6,251]

8 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Bullshit!

Check the facts. 

Go visit your nearest graduate level STEM institution and look for yourself. 

[Otis11 + 551]

8 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Bullshit!

 

5 minutes ago, 0R0 said:

Check the facts. 

Go visit your nearest graduate level STEM institution and look for yourself. 

Gotta say, my anecdotal evidence lines up. Not that I agree with all of 0R0s conclusions, but 70% of researchers being foreign born is about right. (Engaging with some of the top institutions, both public and private... but admittedly small sample size. More mainstream institutions might be different too, that idk. My experience is mostly limited to US institutions rated in the top 10 in that field)